or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 78

post #2311 of 2442
Question from a SUPER newbie! I have been doing a lot of research on tactile transducers and it seems like it would be a sin not to incorporate these into my new home theater. I have 5 theater seats in my home theater with 2 of those 5 seats being in love seat configuration. I want to start out with 4 Aura bass shakers. Firstly, I found a good deal on this Sony receiver. Would this be sufficient to power 4 to 5 bass shakers? Also, what method of wiring would I follow to get these things pumping? series or parallel? Thanks in advance.
post #2312 of 2442
Ok, so I jumped the gun and picked up the receiver (Sony STR-D515) for $40 bucks. Now I need help with wiring. I have 2 rows of home theater seats 2 in front and 3 in back. I will be using 2 bass shakers in front and 2 in back (1 will be for the loveseat conversion in the back row for now). Here are two quick pictures of the receiver that I just picked up, any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.


IMG_4568.jpg

IMG_4567.jpg
post #2313 of 2442
Some of the very first thread had the basic config that may suite your need.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/330436/shakers-simple-cheap-hookup-visual-guide
post #2314 of 2442
Maybe this has already been discussed, but could someone help me figure out what the most optimal way to wire 3 Aura Pro shakers to the Dayton SPA250 Plate amp? (this one)

If I wire in series, I would get 12 ohm load. Too high.
If I wire in parallel, I would get 1.3 ohm load. Too low.
If I do 2 in series, with the other in parallel, I would get a 8 ohm with parallel 4 ohm, equal to a 2.7 ohm load, again too low.

Can anyone provide some help? Thanks!
post #2315 of 2442
And now for what surely is a stupid question: Is it better to wire the shaker amplifier at my equipment rack, and throw 12 ft wire to the chairs (under carpet), OR should I throw 12 ft wire from the equipment rack to the chairs where I would place both the amplifier and the shakers? is one way safer than the other?
Code:
Equipment rack-----amp-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------shakers

or

Equipment rack--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------amp-----shakers

post #2316 of 2442
Gnolivas, I don't know where your sub is or equipment rack is (looked at pictures of your theater(s), very very nice). If you can run a RCA cable from your sub
output, or from your receiver/processor with a "y" splitter cable and run that cable along the base board (or under the baseboard...this can be done buy pulling
the carpet out and putting the RCA cable behind the tack strip...and pushing the carpet back in place...scary I know but easily done if carpet has been down
for a while). Nice run on incomplete sentence smile.gif. Anyway this way the amp is near you, and you can adjust the volume at will.

That is the way mine is done. Plus of the amp is next to a recliner, then you don't need to run wires under the carpet. That is not so easy to do. The padding
makes it tough. Then just run the wires from the amp directly to your first recliner, second..and so on.

You bought a plate amp, which might look ugly sitting right next to a recliner, but it's easy to build a nice (vented) box to house it in.

Just a suggestion.

Vardo

Edit: if you go with the behind the baseboard route, you push the carpet back in by using a wide blade drywall/putty knife.
Edited by vardo - 7/15/12 at 2:43pm
post #2317 of 2442
Vardo,

Thanks for your reply.

Not sure what you mean... you say 'if the amp is next to the recliner, you dont need to run wires under the carpet'. But in my case, the MAIN amplifier (7.1) is 11ft from the couches. I plan to run a cable from the sub out (via Y splitter) to the couches. I have to do this regardless of whether the PLATE amp sits next to the chairs, or next to the main amplifier. In both cases, the wire run is the same amount/length. I am just not sure whether in one case the wires carry more voltage/signal then in the other, and whether there are safety considerations to take given that Im running the wire under the carpet.

I have a magnepull, which is the EASY (but not cheap!) way to run wires under carpet. http://www.magnepull.com/

I plan to put the plate amplifier under one of the chairs if I decide to keep it on that spot. Otherwise, it goes hidden in the rack..
Edited by gnolivos - 7/15/12 at 5:12pm
post #2318 of 2442
Does anyone else own the SPA250 plate amp from PE? I am very confused by the inputs. (link to product: SPA250)

500

There is a high level and a low level IN/OUT. I assume that if I am taking my signal from sub-out from my main amplifier, I must then connect via the low level input RCAs?

If so, look at the RCA connections.

First of all, there is a left and a right input... what sense does that make for a sub signal? One only has a single sub input (mono), from everything I've learned.
Also there are is a stereo pair of RCA outputs. But in addition to this, there is a standard Speaker output on the back, which I assume is where a subwoofer large speaker would connect to... but then, of all these 'out' options, which is the proper connection to put the shakers on?

500
post #2319 of 2442
And to add to the confusion, from the SPA250 manual:
Quote:
1.) Low-Level Inputs (Left/Right)
RCA style jacks that will accept standard line level inputs from
a pre-amp level source. They will accept a stereo signal and
internally combine it into mono. Both left and right input jacks
must be connected to the source in order to drive the amplifier
to full output. Note: If using a LFE output from a preamp or
receiver connect it to the Left (mono) input.

So, BOTH must be connected for full output, but if coming from LFE connect only ONE? I don't get it. smile.gif
Edited by gnolivos - 7/15/12 at 4:41pm
post #2320 of 2442
I don't have that paticular amp, but will have one in a couple of days for a sub I'm building.

The one for my shakers is the 240w amp that Parts Express no longer carries.
Connect your RCA cable into the "input" of your amp...doesn't matter which one. If you wanna
connect both use a Y splitter. It will increase input by 3db...which really doesn't matter.

On the back of the amp there are two wires (red, and black)...maybe 16 or 18 ga. This is where you
will hook up the two wires (16 ga single strand) ...use wire nuts for connection to these 2 wires,
on the back of the amp or whichever way you choose. Run the two wires (red to positive, black to negative etc) to your first shaker.
Then hook them up from shaker to shaker.
This way the single strand wires are run UNDER the recliners. Two wires will directly fit into one positive or negative position on
the shaker connection.

You do not need to run 3 wires under the carpet....only the two from the back of the amp, the red and black.
There is no amp/voltage advantage in either way you do it. And no safety concerns.

That wire puller is damn expensive. Return it if you can, you don't need it.

Hope this helps. I'll monitor this thread if you have more questions.

Good luck,

vardo

Edit, if you use one RCA cable to the amp, hook it up to the white imput.
post #2321 of 2442
Can o just connect one bass shaker to the left speaker on am amp and one to the right?? Or is that not safe?
post #2322 of 2442
Although this is for basic info you probably know.
Your amp (250w) needs a signal, from you sub out or to LFE output of processor/amp.
So your amp gets the signal (from the input) and now outputs it from the 2 wires on the back.

Notice the wires on the back of the amp on the right hand side of the four images:


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-803

These wires are signal output wires that go from one shaker to another.

Just general info. Don't feel bad. MANY people get confused when hooking up shakers.
They are alot of fun and provide a deeper sense of bass....regardless of what a lot of
people (who don't have them) on this forum think. wink.gif

vardo
post #2323 of 2442
I think I just realized part of my confusion on the cabling strategy is due to the fact that the TYPE of wire that runs from receiver LFE to the plate amp is not a red/white speaker wire, but instead, a single coaxial/mono RCA subwoofer type wire. Correct?

In this case I would rather have the plate amp next to receiver, and then send the thinner speaker wires under the carpet. I think running a RCA coax cable under the carpet could be too bulky.

EDIT: Thinking about it further, the reason RG56 or similar is recommended for subwoofer cable runs is because it is a shielded cable, and avoids interference causing woofer 'hum'. but since I am running shakers , any potential interference shouldn't be much of an issue. So I might just try running speaker wire from the LFE output to the plate amp (under the rug) which is thinner, and see if it all works nicely.
Edited by gnolivos - 7/15/12 at 6:14pm
post #2324 of 2442
gnolivas, if you can't run the RCA cable next to the base board or behind, the the answer to your question in your paragraph one is correct.
I only suggested that method because the volume knob is on the amp, and you could adjust on the fly. Just reach down from the recliner,
and adjust the gain.

Run the two wires from the amp to the recliner(s) under the carpet. They would be "single" strand 16 ga wires and not be able to detect/felt
under the carpet. And yes, an RCA cable would be to bulky to run under a carpet. It could be seen and certainly felt if steped on.

Have fun,

vardo
post #2325 of 2442
Ok, Ive decided I will do the following:
Code:
Receiver LFE out -------------(15 ft regular 16 AWG speaker wire carrying low level signal, under carpet)------------Plate Amp--------(speaker wire again)---------Shakers

The key here, is that I am using the less-than-ideal speaker wire for the low level signal run under the carpet, but it will be much less noticeable, and I dont think any interference would be an issue to the shakers (as it would to a subwoofer, hence the usual need for shielded coax cable here instead).

Thanks
post #2326 of 2442
Hi again. I have performed a test install of only ONE of the 50W Aura Pro shakers with the Dayton SPA250 250W amp.

I am a little surprised/bummed that in order to substantially feel the shake in my seat during action intense scenes (Transformers etc) I have to increase the Dayton plate amp's volume to about 75% or more. And this was with the LFE signal from the receiver up to the max (and I then lowered my subwoofer volume, of course...).

Anyhow, this is concerning to me because I would think that I am feeding way more then 50W to a single 4ohm shaker right now, by upping the plate amp's volume/gain to 75% or more. I would have expected that 20% of volume would have been enough to push about 50W from this 250W plate amp.

What's going to happen when I connect all four Auras now? I will have the same 4 ohm load, but delivering 1/4 power to each, if I am analyzing this correctly. That is not going to get me anywhere enough vibration.

Do you guys think the problem is the way I mounted the shakers? is this an inefficient way of mounting it, with a wooden board contacting the bottom frame perimeter, and facing DOWN? I've seen some people mount higher up on the wooden frame of the seat, pointing up.

Thoughts? Thanks!

450
post #2327 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Do you guys think the problem is the way I mounted the shakers?

I think so...it looks like most of the shake is going to your floor or riser. I have my shakers located on the wood bracing of my sofa right around where my lower back contacts the sofa. It would help if you isolate your seat from the floor with rubber feet or spacers to help direct the shake to the seat.
post #2328 of 2442
Thank you! I moved it to the lower back, same location as you, and it made a huge difference. I also connected all 4 shakers in series-parallel configuration for an effective load of 4ohm, and at about 70% volume I get more than enough shake... thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

I think so...it looks like most of the shake is going to your floor or riser. I have my shakers located on the wood bracing of my sofa right around where my lower back contacts the sofa. It would help if you isolate your seat from the floor with rubber feet or spacers to help direct the shake to the seat.
post #2329 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Thank you! I moved it to the lower back, same location as you, and it made a huge difference. I also connected all 4 shakers in series-parallel configuration for an effective load of 4ohm, and at about 70% volume I get more than enough shake... thanks!

can you show pictures of the your new mounting location?? thanks!
post #2330 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by azula View Post

can you show pictures of the your new mounting location?? thanks!

But of course my friend! The red lines show the outline of the wooden support piece that I attached to, for clarity, as well as the anchor points. It would have been ideal if all 4 screws of each Aura attached to wood, with fuller contact of the entire shaker -- but I found no better place.

I have a front row of 3 seats. I needed 4 Auras for optimal 4 ohm load, so what I did was place ONE on eash of the end seats, and TWO on the center seat. In reality, they are all connected together, so all 3 get about the same shake level, with maybe the center seat getting a little extra oomph smile.gif

EDIT: I realized after installing that with the 2 springloaded hookups facing down the way they are in the picture, when the seat is reclined all the way, the tabs press against the bottom, and 'unload' the wire. NOT GOOD!!! This could kill your amplifier becuase of the immediate change in load to potentially low ohms... In any case, I know rotated them 90 degrees, so the hookups are facing at an angle but UPWARDS instead. No contact upon reclining. Always check for this stuff!


450
Edited by gnolivos - 7/17/12 at 2:01pm
post #2331 of 2442
I have a question as it relates to using a 1/4" steel plate vs 3/4" plywood.

Would 1/4" a flat ASTM Grade A36 structural steel plate have the rigidity of a 3/4" piece of plywood spanning 18" x 6"? I had cut 4 pieces of plywood to bolt to my theater chairs only to find that I do not have the clearance, but I have more than enough clearance for 1/4". I am considering buying 4 plates from metalplatesource.com. I'm not familiar with flex and the different gauges of metal, so I'm wondering if anybody else can provide feedback on if this would be a great substitute or not? Any other considerations?

I have 4 theater recliners, 4 mini buttkickers, and 30 ri-k28 rubber isolators. I just need the plate now.

Thank you!
Scott
post #2332 of 2442
Here's my opinion. You want the buttkickers to be attached to wood. Its not about rigidity so much, but rather about resonance and energy transfer. You want the buttkickers to transmit energy through wood and onto the rest of the wooden frame as much as possible. This is my own experience. Think of these as speakers... after all, they are like speakers without paper baffles.

Im sure others will chime in. I am no sound engineer, but I do understand the basics of soundwaves/energy propagation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post

I have a question as it relates to using a 1/4" steel plate vs 3/4" plywood.
Would 1/4" a flat ASTM Grade A36 structural steel plate have the rigidity of a 3/4" piece of plywood spanning 18" x 6"? I had cut 4 pieces of plywood to bolt to my theater chairs only to find that I do not have the clearance, but I have more than enough clearance for 1/4". I am considering buying 4 plates from metalplatesource.com. I'm not familiar with flex and the different gauges of metal, so I'm wondering if anybody else can provide feedback on if this would be a great substitute or not? Any other considerations?
I have 4 theater recliners, 4 mini buttkickers, and 30 ri-k28 rubber isolators. I just need the plate now.
Thank you!
Scott
post #2333 of 2442
So, I decided to build a small box to hold the Dayton 250 amplifier. Here are some dimensions for anyone wanting to do the same, and a pic. Some cable management is next LOL.



post #2334 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Here's my opinion. You want the buttkickers to be attached to wood. Its not about rigidity so much, but rather about resonance and energy transfer. You want the buttkickers to transmit energy through wood and onto the rest of the wooden frame as much as possible. This is my own experience. Think of these as speakers... after all, they are like speakers without paper baffles.
Im sure others will chime in. I am no sound engineer, but I do understand the basics of soundwaves/energy propagation.

Thanks for your feedback. I would rather use 3/4" plywood, but I do not have clearance unfortunately, and I don't believe 1/4" - 1/2" plywood is thick enough. 1/2" is probably too thick itself for clearance. I have the plywood cut, edges routed, holes drilled and ready to bolt on, it just doesn't fit unfortunately. I did have a couch up till last year that I did take drill in a 3/4" piece of plywood and it worked great in that installation.

Any thoughts on what gauge/thickness of metal if that is my one alternative?

Scott
post #2335 of 2442
Can anyone help me figure out the best way to wire 5 (five) Aura bass shakers (50 Watt, 4 ohm each) to a 250W 4 ohm capable amplifier? I understand the basics of parallel. series, and parallel-series wiring, but with 5 shakers I cannot find an ideal combination.... thanks.
post #2336 of 2442
I went ahead and order 1/4" thick metal plates (18"x8") from metalplatesource.com. Each plate cost me about $25 shipped. So, $100 for my 4 chairs. The reason was to save on thickness - the plate is mounted under the chair, and the 3/4" feet was about even with a 3/4" piece of plywood, so the plywood was transferring a lot of energy to the carpet, negating the benefit of rubber isolators. Now I have roughly 1/2" clearance.

It was difficult drilling holes through the plate, until I got some good advice and bought a cobalt 1/4" drill bit, which seemed to cut much more efficiently than the standard drill bit in my Dewalt kit. After I made the switch, I was able to finish chairs 2, 3, & 4 in less time than it took me to do chair 1.

At first I installed Buttkicker Mini's in each of the chairs. I put in the movie Thor to test them out. In order to get the correct gain on the amp, I went to one of the more demanding LFE scenes and tried to find the best level. It did help that I keep the crossover at 40hz, as I don't want it to be too distracting, and it also allowed me to turn up the gain a little more. Unfortunately, it did bottom out a few times, so I dialed it back further than I wanted.

2 days after installing the Mini's I decided I would try out the Advance since I found a great deal on one. The Buttkicker Advance is much larger (although not as large as the full size Buttkicker LFE I used to have installed in my couch prior to the chairs). I tried out the same scenes in Thor and set the gain to where I wanted, and wow! I am extremely happy with the set up now. Now I just need to see if I can find a good deal on 3 more Buttkicker Advances.

Pics Below:
Metal Plate
IMG_2074.jpg

Bottom of Chair
IMG_2075.jpg

Plate installed
IMG_2077.jpg

Mini Buttkicker vs Buttkicker Advance size comparison
IMG_2093.jpg
IMG_2094.jpg
post #2337 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Can anyone help me figure out the best way to wire 5 (five) Aura bass shakers (50 Watt, 4 ohm each) to a 250W 4 ohm capable amplifier? I understand the basics of parallel. series, and parallel-series wiring, but with 5 shakers I cannot find an ideal combination.... thanks.

I ended up doing more research, and decided that total of 6 shakers was going to be the best route, even if I only have 5 seats in my theatre room.

Attached is how I have them wired, which is optimal if you have 3 (or four) seats in the front, and 2 in the rear. This minimizes the number of wires you send to the rear row. Since I have 3 seats in the front, and 2 in the back, I ended up putting 2 shakers in the 'premium' position, which is front center. It shakes more than the others, but not 200%. Since the 3 front seats are attached to each other the energy does transfer pretty well and in the end all 3 front seats get a good rattle. Front center sees maybe 30% stronger shaking subjectively.

Anyhow, I hope this helps other with similar setups. I can confirm it works very well!

Note: this yields 6 ohm load total to the amplifier. So your plate amp must be rated for 6 ohm or higher. Normally, you'll have a 4 ohm plate amplifier, so this 6 ohm load will be fine.
post #2338 of 2442
Need some guidance fellas. I am considering investing in 2 shakers for my backrow of seats. I figure wiring 2 is easier than wiring 3.

Questions -

What is the difference between the standard Clarck Transducer (TS209) and the Silver model? Is the price difference worth it?

Also, does anyone have a reccomendation on a box amp (Not plate) that would be sufficient for driving two of these bad boys? I'm looking at this one right now. Dayton SA230.


Thanks!
Edited by eiger - 10/20/12 at 10:04am
post #2339 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post

Need some guidance fellas. I am considering investing in 2 shakers for my backrow of seats. I figure wiring 2 is easier than wiring 3.
Questions -
What is the difference between the standard Clarck Transducer (TS209) and the Silver model? Is the price difference worth it?
Also, does anyone have a reccomendation on a box amp (Not plate) that would be sufficient for driving two of these bad boys? I'm looking at this one right now. Dayton SA230.
Thanks!

I would like to know the answer to this as well...
post #2340 of 2442
I went thru all this myself with a Buttkicker amp and shaker. The one thing you have to realize with a shaker is that whatever the shaker is attached to has to be able to move! When I first installed my shaker on a dual seat recliner, I didn't get the effect I thought I would, the vibrations seemed weak and when I turned the volume up, it would bottom out hard. Then I realized that my recliner was sitting on a concrete floor and couldn't move. I looked on the Buttkicker website and discovered that they sell "rubber isolators" in different sizes. Well I decided that these were a lot of money for some rubber feet so I looked around WalMart and found some 3" diameter nerf balls. I put 8 of these under the frame of the recliner and with two people in the seats it keeps the frame about 0.5 inch off the floor. The difference in performance of the buttkicker was amazing! Now it felt like I was sitting on
a subwoofer. This a good analogy- you all have seen a subwoofer in action, imagine if the cone didn't have a rubber surround but was glued right to the frame, no movement = no bass! Install some suspension on your shaker furniture and you will be amazed
at the difference.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide