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Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 80

post #2371 of 2442
I'm running a Buttkicker LFE and a SVS 20-39CS+ off of a Crown XLS-1500 amp. Rather than using the same signal for both, I'm running the Crown in stereo mode, running Audyssey on my AVR with the Buttkicker's channel turned off, then after Audyssey runs, setting the AVR to 2 subs. This leaves my SVS EQ'd by Audyssey and seems to pass the unequalized signal to the second channel of my amp. It also lets me alter the level of the Buttkicker using my AVR's channel trims so I can tweak it from the seats.

My question is... Running it this way, what would you use for the distance/delay for the second subwoofer output that runs the Buttkicker? This may not be a crucial thing, but here's my logic: Technically, since the Buttkicker is actuating the seating of my main listening position, the distance would be ZERO, right? However, considering the way an AVR delays signal based on the furthest speaker's distance as the baseline (and then delays any channels closer than that to align them), would it make sense to set this to my AVR's lowest setting (0.5ft), set it to the same distance as my closest channel (4ft to my left rear surround), or set it to the same distance as my SVS (14ft - 12ft physical distance plus 2ft detected delay caused by the Crown's DSP)?

I know this may be a minor thing... but I'd like to know, at least in theory, what the correct setting would be. Just trying to get the Buttkicker to line up with my SVS as perfectly as possible. Any advice/knowledge is appreciated.
post #2372 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I'm running a Buttkicker
My question is... Running it this way, what would you use for the distance/delay for the second subwoofer output that runs the Buttkicker? This may not be a crucial thing, but here's my logic: Technically, since the Buttkicker is actuating the seating of my main listening position, the distance would be ZERO, right?
It is even more complicated than that, since the Buttkicker is sending most its energy through solids, not through air, and the speed of vibrations through the wooden frame of your chair could easily be 10 times faster than that through air. (You might have to adjust all your signals to compensate, faking the rear and fronts closer to compensate.)
See here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sound-speed-solids-d_713.html

Perhaps 10 times the distance of your SVS subwoofer might be right? That way the audible bass gets to you at your seating position at the same time as the buttkicker vibration.
post #2373 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. L. View Post

It is even more complicated than that, since the Buttkicker is sending most its energy through solids, not through air, and the speed of vibrations through the wooden frame of your chair could easily be 10 times faster than that through air. (You might have to adjust all your signals to compensate, faking the rear and fronts closer to compensate.)
See here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sound-speed-solids-d_713.html

Perhaps 10 times the distance of your SVS subwoofer might be right? That way the audible bass gets to you at your seating position at the same time as the buttkicker vibration.
Didn't even consider that. But wouldn't that be the OPPOSITE though? If the vibrations are transferring 10x faster than the sound from the subwoofer to my seat through the air, wouldn't that mean you would want the shaker set as close to 0 as possible so the AVR delays it?
post #2374 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I'm running a Buttkicker LFE and a SVS 20-39CS+ off of a Crown XLS-1500 amp. Rather than using the same signal for both, I'm running the Crown in stereo mode, running Audyssey on my AVR with the Buttkicker's channel turned off, then after Audyssey runs, setting the AVR to 2 subs. This leaves my SVS EQ'd by Audyssey and seems to pass the unequalized signal to the second channel of my amp. It also lets me alter the level of the Buttkicker using my AVR's channel trims so I can tweak it from the seats.
What receiver and version of Audyssey do you have? Unfortunately, it generally doesn't work the way you think it does. If you change the subwoofer settings from 1 Sub to 2 Subs after running Audyssey, you are probably disabling Audyssey EQ. Check your receiver and your version of Audyssey to be sure. AFAIK, you can't run Audyssey with just one sub and then switch to 2 subs and still have Audyssey enabled.

In any event, both subwoofer outputs of your receiver get the same signal, whether Audyssey is on or off. No Audyssey equipped receiver or pre/pro that I'm aware of is capable of sending a different signal to the two subwoofer outputs. Some versions of XT32 have an additional capability called Sub EQ2, which can set different levels and distances for the 2 subwoofer outputs, but they both get the exact same EQ'd signal when Audyssey is enabled, or the same un-EQ'd signal when Audyssey is disabled. In order for both subs to get the same EQ'd signal, you need to have both subs running when you run Audyssey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

My question is... Running it this way, what would you use for the distance/delay for the second subwoofer output that runs the Buttkicker? This may not be a crucial thing, but here's my logic: Technically, since the Buttkicker is actuating the seating of my main listening position, the distance would be ZERO, right? However, considering the way an AVR delays signal based on the furthest speaker's distance as the baseline (and then delays any channels closer than that to align them), would it make sense to set this to my AVR's lowest setting (0.5ft), set it to the same distance as my closest channel (4ft to my left rear surround), or set it to the same distance as my SVS (14ft - 12ft physical distance plus 2ft detected delay caused by the Crown's DSP)?

I know this may be a minor thing... but I'd like to know, at least in theory, what the correct setting would be. Just trying to get the Buttkicker to line up with my SVS as perfectly as possible. Any advice/knowledge is appreciated.
This is an excellent question. Timing of the tactile response so it coincides with the subwoofer's acoustic response is critical to optimizing the system. You want to delay the transducer relative to the subwoofer as explained by J. L. To do this, you would set the transducer distance closer to you by the amount of distance the subwoofer is away from you. IOW, if the sub is 10' away, and it's Distance setting is 12' away, set the transducer to 2' away. That way, the sub will fire first, and the acoustic energy will traverse the distance between the sub and the seat, and it will arrive at the same time the transducer is firing.

In my system, I do all of this completely differently. I connect my transducer amp to the analog subwoofer output of my Oppo BluRay player. I then perform all the Bass Management and Distance and Level settings in the player. This arrangement completely avoids the Audyssey Room Correction being applied to the transducers while still allowing me to set Distances and Levels. You can read more about my setup here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1349395/craig-johns-theater/90#post_21096088

Good luck with your system! smile.gif

Craig
post #2375 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

What receiver and version of Audyssey do you have? Unfortunately, it generally doesn't work the way you think it does. If you change the subwoofer settings from 1 Sub to 2 Subs after running Audyssey, you are probably disabling Audyssey EQ. Check your receiver and your version of Audyssey to be sure. AFAIK, you can't run Audyssey with just one sub and then switch to 2 subs and still have Audyssey enabled.
I'm running an Onkyo TX-NR1007, which only has MultEQ XT (not XT32). And I understand that most will say that it doesn't work that way, but... if I set the channel trims identically between the two and set the gains on the Crown to the same setting, the channel for the Buttkicker gets a higher signal (i.e. the -30dB light will flicker on the Buttkicker side before the SVS side). To me, that implies that the two outputs are not receiving an identical signal like you would expect (though I haven't done any testing to confirm that, so it could be a fluke). Regardless, even if they are, I'm also running an ART-351 EQ on the SVS side just so I can use it as a subsonic filter at about 18Hz. Enabling the 2nd subwoofer channel after running Audyssey does NOT turn off the Audyssey light on the AVR and I'm still running Audyssey Dynamic EQ with this setup, so I'm pretty sure I'm not disabling Audyssey's equalization by doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

This is an excellent question. Timing of the tactile response so it coincides with the subwoofer's acoustic response is critical to optimizing the system. You want to delay the transducer relative to the subwoofer as explained by J. L. To do this, you would set the transducer distance closer to you by the amount of distance the subwoofer is away from you. IOW, if the sub is 10' away, and it's Distance setting is 12' away, set the transducer to 2' away. That way, the sub will fire first, and the acoustic energy will traverse the distance between the sub and the seat, and it will arrive at the same time the transducer is firing.
Perfect! I know the Crown gives me a 2ft delay in the signal (because the detected distance went up 2 feet from when I was using a Samson 1000 to power this rig), so I will try the Buttkicker at 2ft tonight and see how well that blends. It's really a minor niggle, but I'm obsessive about getting things as "right" as I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

In my system, I do all of this completely differently. I connect my transducer amp to the analog subwoofer output of my Oppo BluRay player. I then perform all the Bass Management and Distance and Level settings in the player. This arrangement completely avoids the Audyssey Room Correction being applied to the transducers while still allowing me to set Distances and Levels. You can read more about my setup here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1349395/craig-johns-theater/90#post_21096088
I would do that with my Oppo BDP-93, but I want the Buttkicker to work with my cable and Xbox 360 as well. Nothing as awesome as playing Call Of Duty: Black Ops 2 and feeling the ridiculous level of rumble when someone pops an EMP. (Seriously... it shakes my couch more than any movie in my collection. They put ridiculous emphasis on that one sound.)
post #2376 of 2442
Just a quick report: Setting the Buttkicker to 2 feet seems to have done the trick. I put on some music with kick drums and the Buttkicker seems to be lining up nicely with the SVS with that distance setting. Thanks for the advice, craig john!
post #2377 of 2442
Quick question. I'm attempting to use my balanced minidsp to apply a delay to my BK amp. I am using a phoenix>XLR adapter out of the mini, which has worked perfectly to drive my EP2500. I purchased this adapter to connect to the XLR one, and from there ran the RCA to the BK amp. But I'm getting no output on it at all. I tried switching between to the output feeding the EP and still no dice. The adapter I purchased is supposed to convert a balanced to an unbalanced signal. Am I missing something?
post #2378 of 2442
Quick question on my set up. Im using a Yamaha RX-V471, (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--PRdz5XLdN4/TjjQl6OvCNI/AAAAAAAACfA/qTXHYfEmUf4/s1600/rxv471_rear.jpg) one subwoofer connection out, and multiple AV connections with multiple RCA's. Also a Pyle 2x75W ( http://www.qualitycaraudio.com/el/PCA3-back.jpg) amplifer to 2 Aura Pro Bass Shakers. Do I need a Y splitter off of the subwoofer out, or can an RCA connection be hooked up to the current AV ports of the Yamaha receiver?
post #2379 of 2442
The frequency response for the Behringer iNuke series as stated on the manual is 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +0 / -1 dB. sigh...
Does that mean it is not suitable since it only work >20Hz?
Edited by Skylinestar - 6/16/13 at 2:15am
post #2380 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

The frequency response for the Behringer iNuke series as stated on the manual is 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +0 / -1 dB. sigh...
Does that mean it is not suitable since it only work >20Hz?

Li'il Mike measured the FR:


(Click on image for a higher resolution version.)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451094/behringer-inuke-lf-performance-with-low-impedance-load#post_22821619

That looks bad, but note that the dB scale increments are 0.5 dB. It's -1 dB at 10 Hz and -3 dB at 5 Hz. It'll work fine.

Craig
post #2381 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Li'il Mike measured the FR:


(Click on image for a higher resolution version.)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451094/behringer-inuke-lf-performance-with-low-impedance-load#post_22821619

That looks bad, but note that the dB scale increments are 0.5 dB. It's -1 dB at 10 Hz and -3 dB at 5 Hz. It'll work fine.

Craig
Thanks Craig.

I've read that pro audio equipment (like those from Behringer) are not suitable to be fed with signals from the RCA Subwoofer output of a home theater AVR. Is this true?
My plan is this: Denon 3312 > NU1000DSP > Clark Synthesis TST239 or Buttkicker BK4-4

Which is better? Clark Synthesis TST239 or Buttkicker BK4-4?
post #2382 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Thanks Craig.

I've read that pro audio equipment (like those from Behringer) are not suitable to be fed with signals from the RCA Subwoofer output of a home theater AVR. Is this true?
My plan is this: Denon 3312 > NU1000DSP > Clark Synthesis TST239 or Buttkicker BK4-4
If you use Audyssey, and you connect to the subwoofer output of the Denon, the transducer will be exposed to the Audyssey Room Correction, which is does not need or benefit from. Also, the transducer will be controlled by the Master Volume Control, which I don't think it needs. To avoid these issues, I connect my transducers to the subwoofer output of my Oppo BluRay player. That is a "pure" uncorrected signal that is not controlled by the MVC. It is a strong enough signal to drive my Buttkicker BKA1000 amp, but that is a "consumer" amp, not a pro amp. When I tried the Behringer iNuke connected this way, I didn't have enough signal to properly drive the amp. When I connected it to the receiver's subwoofer output, I could get a strong enough signal, but I had to turn the volume up to do it... and then I had Audyssey applied to the transducers. I ended up returning the Behringer amp because I could not get it to work as well as te Buttkicker amp for my installation. It also has VERY noisy fans. There are some inexpensive fan mods that can be done, but I didn't want to mess with that. Finally, I could NOT abide the aesthetics of that amp. The bright orange lights are garish, and overly bright in a darkened theater. And IMO, it's just plain ugly. It does have some very cool DSP features, but the downsides didn't outweigh the feature-set, at least for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Which is better? Clark Synthesis TST239 or Buttkicker BK4-4?
Don't know. I've never used either. Based on the spec's I would opt for the Buttkicker. It says it has 5 Hz response. IMO, a transducer should only be active from about 40 Hz down, and the infrasonic output is the only real content I want it for. The Clark only goes to 15 Hz, and it seems like the other Clark products that are intended for tactile response to 600 or 800 Hz.

You'll see a lot of comments from people who don't like tactile transducers. I would bet that they've only experienced transducers that are setup with higher frequency output. That kind of response is gimmicky and unnatural, and I wouldn't like that kind of response either. Limit the response to 40 Hz down and optimize it for the infrasonics, and the result is much more "appropriate" and natural. Think about how you experience tactile sound in nature... it's always at a very low frequency. You never experience the ground rumbling at midrange frequencies; it's always a very low rumble. That's how a transducer system should be set up.

I use Crowson transducers. https://www.crowsontech.com/

Craig
post #2383 of 2442
Craig,

Thx for all your helpful posts - very informative. I'm planning to add transducer to a recliner and sectional sofa. My Budget is $850. Do you think the Buttkicker BK-LFE wired kit $550 - $600 + 1 extra LFE transducer $225 on musicians friend.com is the way to go or would anyone recommend something different?
post #2384 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratclib2014 View Post

Craig,

Thx for all your helpful posts - very informative. I'm planning to add transducer to a recliner and sectional sofa. My Budget is $850. Do you think the Buttkicker BK-LFE wired kit $550 - $600 + 1 extra LFE transducer $225 on musicians friend.com is the way to go or would anyone recommend something different?

BKA1000-N amp? That is exactly what I did from the same vendor for two chairs and it works well.
post #2385 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

If you use Audyssey, and you connect to the subwoofer output of the Denon, the transducer will be exposed to the Audyssey Room Correction, which is does not need or benefit from. Also, the transducer will be controlled by the Master Volume Control, which I don't think it needs. To avoid these issues, I connect my transducers to the subwoofer output of my Oppo BluRay player. That is a "pure" uncorrected signal that is not controlled by the MVC. It is a strong enough signal to drive my Buttkicker BKA1000 amp, but that is a "consumer" amp, not a pro amp. When I tried the Behringer iNuke connected this way, I didn't have enough signal to properly drive the amp. When I connected it to the receiver's subwoofer output, I could get a strong enough signal, but I had to turn the volume up to do it... and then I had Audyssey applied to the transducers. I ended up returning the Behringer amp because I could not get it to work as well as te Buttkicker amp for my installation. It also has VERY noisy fans. There are some inexpensive fan mods that can be done, but I didn't want to mess with that. Finally, I could NOT abide the aesthetics of that amp. The bright orange lights are garish, and overly bright in a darkened theater. And IMO, it's just plain ugly. It does have some very cool DSP features, but the downsides didn't outweigh the feature-set, at least for me.
Don't know. I've never used either. Based on the spec's I would opt for the Buttkicker. It says it has 5 Hz response. IMO, a transducer should only be active from about 40 Hz down, and the infrasonic output is the only real content I want it for. The Clark only goes to 15 Hz, and it seems like the other Clark products that are intended for tactile response to 600 or 800 Hz.

You'll see a lot of comments from people who don't like tactile transducers. I would bet that they've only experienced transducers that are setup with higher frequency output. That kind of response is gimmicky and unnatural, and I wouldn't like that kind of response either. Limit the response to 40 Hz down and optimize it for the infrasonics, and the result is much more "appropriate" and natural. Think about how you experience tactile sound in nature... it's always at a very low frequency. You never experience the ground rumbling at midrange frequencies; it's always a very low rumble. That's how a transducer system should be set up.

I use Crowson transducers. https://www.crowsontech.com/

Craig
Thanks for the advice. BK300 amp with the BK4-4 might be the best combo.
The Crowson cost about 3 times the price of the BK. Sigh...
post #2386 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonchqq View Post

That is probably too much power for that scenario. With this amp it may be better to leave it in stereo.

I don't know what you're talking about. From the Buttkicker website:
Quote:
The ButtKicker Advance, (BK 4-4), is a perfect solution for couches and sectional sofas. Paired with the BKA300-4 amplifier (included in the Wireless ButtKicker Kit) you can add powerful bass response to your sound system.

The ButtKicker Advance requires a minimum of 75 watts and we recommend a maximum of 400 watts.

also:
Quote:
The ButtKicker BKA300-4 power amplifier is a 300 watt amplifier built with BASH® technology. The BKA300-4 is a digital, fanless, convection cooled, mono amplifier.

It's a mono amp, so it can't be used i stereo, and it is designed specifically for use with the transducer he is considering. It has exactly the right amount of power for that transducer.

Craig
post #2387 of 2442
To Criag John. (quote)
You'll see a lot of comments from people who don't like tactile transducers. I would bet that they've only experienced transducers that are setup with higher frequency output. That kind of response is gimmicky and unnatural, and I wouldn't like that kind of response either. Limit the response to 40 Hz down and optimize it for the infrasonics, and the result is much more "appropriate" and natural. Think about how you experience tactile sound in nature... it's always at a very low frequency. You never experience the ground rumbling at midrange frequencies; it's always a very low rumble. That's how a transducer system should be set up.

Hi Craig.
Yes I agree with you .
I've a pair of clarksyntheis Platinum and Silver mounted on the couch and powered by 3 separate sets of Dayton SA240 plate Amp. All mounted at the back of the couch pocket. To make the shakers to do their best, the couch is sitting on a custom built with imbedded coil springs portable riser. Like suspended in the air. The experience is closed to d-BOx except it won't roll. I do have to set the frequency at you stated at 40Hz, anything above will blow the transducers which I did numerous times since I installed the first one about 10yrs ago. I even destroyed the AudioSource mono Amp after 2yrs it came with the 1st shaker probably from overheating. The transducers had been successfully repaired many times but only last a few months as I didn't realise the frequency is the culprit back then. Until last summer I had both TST429 quit at the same time. Again I took them apart and this time I found was not the components problem but the material that build it, during the play the vibration will dislodge the coil and caused the breakdown. Since then, I only played with lower volume and the frequency at 40Hz, though the shaking effect had been reduced substantially at least I didn't have to check it regularly.
Early this spring, after I replaced the outdated Samsung 3d player with the Oppo-103. I noticed the significant audio signal output difference than the old player. Obviously, the LFE is better responsive and accurate, the transducers can kick a lot harder and the transducer amp can turn back to higher gain, of course I will leave the frequency as its low. Moreover the LFE to the transducer can now be controlled by the opp-103 remote instead by the receiver or run back and forth to the audio cabinet to adjust the output.
IMO, with 3d movies production is gearing up more than ever, the HT experience without the tactile transducers is like ...............you know.
To make the transducers to kick up another notch and for full body feel.
A couple of photos of the build:




Edited by kis3dhc - 6/24/13 at 2:41pm
post #2388 of 2442
Is there any other way to get a bass signal from a receiver that is un-touched by Audyssey? I don't have an oppo or any other bass signal prior to by receiver that I could use...
post #2389 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

Is there any other way to get a bass signal from a receiver that is un-touched by Audyssey? I don't have an oppo or any other bass signal prior to by receiver that I could use...

Use the Audyssey signal. I bet you can't feel a difference.
post #2390 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

Is there any other way to get a bass signal from a receiver that is un-touched by Audyssey? I don't have an oppo or any other bass signal prior to by receiver that I could use...
Unfortunately, no.
post #2391 of 2442
Oh ok. That's how I have it now.

I have four clark synthesis tst209's hooked up to my zone 2 of my receiver. I did this temporarily and the effect is good just I am sure it is way underpowered right now. Also there are no real cross over settings I can do as well.

I was looking at amps suggested here and I think the iNuke may be a good fit. The shakers want between 100-150 watts each at 4 ohms...so if I hook up two of them to one channel of the iNuke that would equal 150 watts each correct?

Given the specs of the Behringer iNUKE NU1000DSP I am seeing: "Delivers 2 x 500 Watts into 2 Ohms; 2 x 300 Watts into 4 Ohms; 1000 Watts into 4 Ohms (bridge mode) and weighs less than 8 lbs / 3.5 kg".

Thanks
post #2392 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Unfortunately, no.

And there definitely is a big difference?

I use a HTPC and use the HDMI for all audio...maybe I can some how use the onboard analog audio's subwoofer output simultaneously...
post #2393 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

Oh ok. That's how I have it now.

I have four clark synthesis tst209's hooked up to my zone 2 of my receiver. I did this temporarily and the effect is good just I am sure it is way underpowered right now. Also there are no real cross over settings I can do as well.

I was looking at amps suggested here and I think the iNuke may be a good fit. The shakers want between 100-150 watts each at 4 ohms...so if I hook up two of them to one channel of the iNuke that would equal 150 watts each correct?

Given the specs of the Behringer iNUKE NU1000DSP I am seeing: "Delivers 2 x 500 Watts into 2 Ohms; 2 x 300 Watts into 4 Ohms; 1000 Watts into 4 Ohms (bridge mode) and weighs less than 8 lbs / 3.5 kg".

Thanks

Or would that be two shakers at 150x2ohms....wouldn't want that I don't think.
post #2394 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

And there definitely is a big difference?
It is clearly noticeable to me on the Crowson systems I have set up. I depends entirely on how much boost and cut is added by Audyssey.

I have a friend who had his Crowson set up with the analog output from his Oppo. He recently added a media server to his system which required him to move the signal source from the Oppo to the subwoofer output of his pre/pro. He is a less happy with the system configured that way than with the signal coming "unaltered" from the Oppo. Part of that is because it is now controlled by the Master Volume Control and he needs to be more concerned about turning the MVC up and down. Part of it is also the alteration of the signal by Audyssey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

I use a HTPC and use the HDMI for all audio...maybe I can some how use the onboard analog audio's subwoofer output simultaneously...
If you can figure out how to do that, please post it.

Craig
post #2395 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

It is clearly noticeable to me on the Crowson systems I have set up. I depends entirely on how much boost and cut is added by Audyssey.

I have a friend who had his Crowson set up with the analog output from his Oppo. He recently added a media server to his system which required him to move the signal source from the Oppo to the subwoofer output of his pre/pro. He is a less happy with the system configured that way than with the signal coming "unaltered" from the Oppo. Part of that is because it is now controlled by the Master Volume Control and he needs to be more concerned about turning the MVC up and down. Part of it is also the alteration of the signal by Audyssey.
If you can figure out how to do that, please post it.

Craig
I am the friend Craig is talking about. I have an OPPO 83. Yea, I know it's old tongue.gif. I first experienced the Crowson system at Craig's house. After 5 min I was hooked and I wanted to find a way to do with my system. Lucky for me Craig had a spare Transducer. So, I bought that from him and I bought the Butt Kicker BKA-1000 amp. When I first got it I was wondering how we would connect everything. Craig said the best way was with the OPPO outputs. This is done for two reasons. First, the Crowson does not need any correction by an EQ. Second, You will be able to control the overall level independently from the master volume. Both of those things made sense so that's what I did. I absolutely love what it does for my system. But, I also started to want ease of use for my system. So. I started looking into servers. I ended up buying one that is already made from a company so I did no have to build anything myself. So the good part is ease of use and everything at my finger tips. The bad thing was that I would now have to connect the Crowson and Butt Kicker up to the my Integra itself. That means that it will increase and decrease in intensity as I go up and down with the overall level. I should mention that I am extra sensitive to blowing out a Crowson because that already happened to me.

When I got my Butt Kicker amp(which was the same model that Craig used when we tested it in my room) I just put it to the same level on the Butt Kicker as before and played a movie at my normal level. Well, I fried the Crowson because the overall gain of the newer amp is greater then the gain that he had on his amp. I just want to make clear at this point that the Crowson was fried because I had the gain on the Butt Kicker too high NOT the over all level of the my Integra. At that point, they were still separate from each other So when I got the Crowson back I lowered the gain and raised it slowly until it was where I wanted it. It worked great. Then, I decided on the server. I learned that the Crowson would now be "connected" to the MV. Not only that, but I had to raise the level on the Butt Kicker because it was not as strong connected to the sub connection on my Integra as it was on the OPPO. So, we fiddled around and got it to the right level. Now, I still get a great tactile feel when I watch movies, but it is probably not as strong as before and I still have to be careful with the overall level because I don't want to burn it out again. My room is small so I can get away with having my system played at a lower level. If I were in a bigger room, I might be concerned.

So now, I am using the server as my main source and I just have to be careful how loud I put the overall level. But I still wish I could separate them somehow just to make me feel more at ease. Like I said, I don't put it that loud in my room. Normally between -18db and -16db. I know that is really not loud at all, relatively speaking, but it's loud enough to just be fun in my room and I can still feel the Crowson's doing their thing. But here is the thing, I am friends with someone else on the forum. His handle is BrolicBeast. He has a killer system and he is using a server as well for his primary playback. He also has an OPPO 105. In addition, partly because of me, he bought a Crowson system. He loves it. But I was wondering how he had it setup. I told him not to crank the amp powering the Crowson based on my past experience. I was curious how he had it connected though so he did not have to worry about raising tjhe level of the Crowson as he raised his overall level. This is what he said.

"Oh no--I have my media sever connected to my Oppo BDP-105's HDMI inputs so I can control the levels separately from the 8801's MVC. It's a unique option available only to Oppo 100 series and Cambridge Audio Azur 752 owners though. I found a standard setting that keeps things very natural and tactile, so I keep the Crowsons at the one setting at all times, except for gaming--I turn it up two notches on the iNuke amp for gaming for an unbelievable experience. My standard listening volume for movies and music is -5db (I have my processor programmed to always remain at -5db at startup, regardless of what the volume was when I turned it off).”

So that allows him, somehow, of keeping the two levels separate. He can keep the Crowson at a certain level but put the MV as loud as he wants and it seems like he doesn't have to worry about blowing up the Crowson. Now, it works for him but to be honest, I don't understand it %100 and if I am wrong in my analysis, I welcome any corrections. So, that may have bypassed the level issue, but I am guessing the Audyssey issue still remains. I will say for me, in my small room, with my limitations, the benefits out weigh the negatives with having a server and the Crowson setup like I do. I have watched a number of films that way, and even though it may not be exactly like before, I have come to be happy with the results.
P.S Sorry this went so long and I hope what I said is accurate and made sense.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 7/10/13 at 10:14am
post #2396 of 2442
Thanks guys for all the info!

I guess my first order of business is to give these shakers the proper amount of power.

And now that I know I should using an untouched subwoofer signal...I might be obsessing over a work around.

I'll look into the dual audio output on a HTPC...who knows it could be doable.

And I remember seeing Brolic Beast's video when I was checking out the XPA-5. Looks like he's got a nice setup.
Edited by FantaXP7 - 7/10/13 at 10:19am
post #2397 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

Thanks guys for all the info!

I guess my first order of business is to give these shakers the proper amount of power.

And now that I know I should using an untouched subwoofer signal...I might be obsessing over a work around.

I'll look into the dual audio output on a HTPC...who knows it could be doable.

And I remember seeing Brolic Beast's video when I was checking out the XPA-5. Looks like he's got a nice setup.
Before you go to all the trouble of finding a workaround, do what Gary J suggested and try it connected to the subwoofer output. You may not mind the Audyssey correction or the fact that it's controlled by the MVC. You may find that you need to turn the MVC up pretty loud to get a good effect with the iNuke amp. It's a "Pro" amp and it needs a higher level signal to drive it.

Also, if the iNuke will be in the same room with you, you'll want to consider upgrading the fan to a noiseless fan. The factory fans are so loud I couldn't stand it. Also, the lights on the display are garish and I could stand them either in my darkened theater. I ended up sending my iNuke back and sticking with the Buttkicker BKA 1000.

Craig
post #2398 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Before you go to all the trouble of finding a workaround, do what Gary J suggested and try it connected to the subwoofer output. You may not mind the Audyssey correction or the fact that it's controlled by the MVC. You may find that you need to turn the MVC up pretty loud to get a good effect with the iNuke amp. It's a "Pro" amp and it needs a higher level signal to drive it.

Also, if the iNuke will be in the same room with you, you'll want to consider upgrading the fan to a noiseless fan. The factory fans are so loud I couldn't stand it. Also, the lights on the display are garish and I could stand them either in my darkened theater. I ended up sending my iNuke back and sticking with the Buttkicker BKA 1000.

Craig

Interesting thanks again.

I have had my shakers hooked up to the sub out for some time and don't really mind the way it feels. I have tried powering by zone 2 on my receiver and also a audiosource amp-100 which I later realized provides very little power to the four shakers.

I may take a look at the buttkicker amp. Still a bit confused on how to wire the 4 shakers to that though where they want 4ohms...
post #2399 of 2442
Just curious, you've 4 tst-209 .
What are they going to be mounted on ?
post #2400 of 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by kis3dhc View Post

Just curious, you've 4 tst-209 .
What are they going to be mounted on ?

Here is a pic

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5jrexalb926uvc/2012-03-03%2010.04.31.jpg
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