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Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 12

post #331 of 2442
Well, I got a hold of some Pro shakers. I didn't get the deal you guys got, but I didn't pay $100 a pair either.

Got em new in box. Wound up paying about $6.60 more per shaker than the partsexpress deal, which isn't too bad, but I did get hit with a bit in shipping...and I got stuck with an extra pair that I don't need. I only need three pairs, but I now have four.

Looking forward to hooking them up, but now I need to find an amp. Too bad yard-sale season is over. I've got one I can borrow to test with, so I'll be able to hook em up and see how they work, but I'll need to find a more permanent solution.

Those plate amps are a fairly reasonable price given the crossover adjustment is right there and everything, but I have no idea where I could put it/mount it. It won't exactly sit in a rack or on a stack of components. I think I read something some posts back about some kind of WalMart Wonder that would do the trick...
post #332 of 2442
Samurai Jack

Where did you find your Pros at?
Want to part with your extra pair?
post #333 of 2442
Quote:


Where did you find your Pros at?

There's been some "reasonable" deals on ebay without having to pay by money order or any such nonsense...although the starting bids are continuing to rise.

I'm guessing a lot of these sellers bought a load from partexpress and are now reselling them at a markup for profit. (Isn't ebay just swell?).
post #334 of 2442
http://www.want2race.net/hometheatre/PICT0590.JPG
http://www.want2race.net/hometheatre/pict0589.JPG

I cut my plate amp into teh wall.. Its behind the seats so nobody will see it unless you take the back off one of them..
post #335 of 2442
Want2race,

Nice seats...are those 088's? (I'm thinking 088's are what I will put into my room). How do the shakers work on them? Pleasing? IIRC, you're using a Pro per seat, correct?

I suppose I could do something like that with the plate amp if I had to, but I'd rather it be just another component in the rack. My rack is going to be hard enough to place without other odd bits n' ends to install elsewhere. But I guess I can get creative if I have to. Not like my walls are even up yet.
post #336 of 2442
Quote:


Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Want2race,

Nice seats...are those 088's? (I'm thinking 088's are what I will put into my room). How do the shakers work on them? Pleasing? IIRC, you're using a Pro per seat, correct?

I suppose I could do something like that with the plate amp if I had to, but I'd rather it be just another component in the rack. My rack is going to be hard enough to place without other odd bits n' ends to install elsewhere. But I guess I can get creative if I have to. Not like my walls are even up yet.

The seats are from a friend who sells couches.. Helal deal, Hella comfortable.. Only down side is that the shakers were hard to mount and let the mechanism function.

I have 1 shaker per chair. The non pros.

It shakes, its set to shake hard and low so I intend for them to only work below 50hz. I want it to be rare and not part of every scene.. I'll tell you how hard they shake when the amp arrives tomorrow.
post #337 of 2442
Cool, keep me posted, Want2race. Sounds like you're doing it pretty much the way I hope to. I'll be interested to hear how it all works out when calibrated.

I've got a pair of Hsu STF-2s doing the "air compression," but I think it would really add something viceral to those ultra-low freq. effects, like you say. Darla tapping on the fishtank in "Finding Nemo" is really cool...sounds like the room is being pounded on by a giant outside. It's a really low-freq event.

But having the shakers actually put a little tactile thump into your chest would really add to the immersion and make the effect even more convincing. A little special something to make guests go "whoa" without being able to put their finger on why it seemed so real.

My subs are completely hidden from view, too With a little creativity in room construction, I hope to make all my speakers all but invisible. I like the idea that one can't point to a speaker and go "wow, nice speaker." Rather, only the overall experience presents itself in an enveloping, inseperable fantasia.
post #338 of 2442
I just searched www.aurasound.com. Here's the info found comparing Pros vs non-Pros

Specification................Bass Shaker.............Pro Bass Shaker
Frame size...................5.4" W x 2.2" H.........5.4" W x 2.2" H
Force, Peak..................20 Lbf (89 N)...........30 Lbf (132 N)
Effective Impedance......4 Ohms....................4 Ohms
Power, Continuous........25 Watts RMS...........50 Watts RMS
Power, Max..................50 Watts RMS...........75 Watts RMS
Height.........................2.2"........................2.2"
Diameter......................5.1"........................6.2"
Weight........................3.0 lb......................3.0 lb
Resonance Freq (fo)......40 Hz......................40 Hz
Usable Freq Range.........20-80 Hz.................20-80 Hz

Let's compare the specs.
So the frame size is the same. I'm assuming this is the mounting flange.
The Pros have more peak force. I wondering how important this is. From what I've read, most people turn down the volume. That would reduce the force.
The Pros handle more power both continuous and max. Again turning down the volume would reduce the power being sent to the shakers. Lower continuous and max power handling wouldn't matter
The Pros have a larger diameter. How much of this is fins and how much of this is magnet or "piston" size?
Weight is the same. Surprising. That's says there can't be much more magnet or piston.
Resonance Frequency is the same. From looking at their Force vs Freq graph, that where the peak output is. 40 Hz. The same for both Pro and non-Pro
Usable Frequency Range is the same.

I'd say that
1 - You might get away with 1 Pro Shaker vs. 2 or 3 non-Pro Shakers per larger piece of furniture (i.e., couch or love seat) but driving it harder. You may issues here with the impedance.
2 - One non-Pro Shaker should be fine per chair.
3 - Driven at the same lower volumes or watts, you should be able to mix and match Pro and non-Pro.
4 - I think Pro is just a non-Pro with the extra fins for cooling. Allowing you to drive it harder.

I sent an email to Aura Sound asking:

1 - Driven at the same output (i.e., volume or watts) does the Pro Bass Shaker produce more vibrations than the Bass Shaker? I understand that the Pro will produce a higher peak force at it's max input power. I'm more curious that if they were both driven at lets say 5 watts, would the Pro produce more Lbf or N (newtons)?
2 - Besides from the fins on the Pro Bass Shakers, are there any internal differences between them and the Bass Shakers? Like a bigger piston, bigger magnet, etc.

Enquiring minds need to know.
post #339 of 2442
Looking forward to that reply and let me know when you get the package PAW.

brickie
post #340 of 2442
Thanks Brickie. I looking forward to the package. I have my doubts about a reply from Aura Sound. It seems like when I ask companies these type of questions, they never respond.
post #341 of 2442
PAW mine are nonpros and plenty powerfull enough for the job.

davey
post #342 of 2442
My email to Aura Sound ask:

1 - Driven at the same output (i.e., volume or watts) does the Pro Bass Shaker produce more vibrations than the Bass Shaker? I understand that the Pro will produce a higher peak force at it's max input power. I'm more curious that if they were both driven at lets say 5 watts, would the Pro produce more Lbf or N (newtons)?
2 - Besides from the fins on the Pro Bass Shakers, are there any internal differences between them and the Bass Shakers? Like a bigger piston, bigger magnet, etc.

Their answer was:

No difference at 5 watts same Lbf...fins dissipate heat better (stability in coil impedance) no difference in internal composition.

Comparing the Pros to non-Pros:
The internals are the same
Same output at lower inputs
Fins are just for cooling

So, unless you are driving the Pros harder, the non-Pros should work just fine.

Time to call Parts Express and order some non-Pros before they run out.
post #343 of 2442
I got my amp today and it didnt fry!!

It does hum like a crazy mofo.. SO I am off to buy a ground loop isolator as soon as this post is submitted.

Basically the non pros kick ass! They shake my big theatre seats VERY VERY well!

My only complaint is partsexpress advertise a 240watt amp on their site and when I got it the instructions say 200watt. I dont like this and will call to see what they say soon.. It even says patt 300-804
post #344 of 2442
OK. $16 fixed it.

These things rock!

Thanks all for your help

btw- Im driving my amp flat out @ 240watts but only doing 40hz and below so I wont overheat anything/burn my chair!
post #345 of 2442
PAW, way to do some excellent research. I wound up buying Pros just as a safety margin. Now I know I spent about $100 I didn't need to. Ouch.

Oh well, I do like the way the Pros look (even though no one will see them but me, I'm a bit crazy that way), and I like the banana-plug type connectors better, so I still feel a bit better about them. But yeah, it sounds like there's no reason not to save a bunch of money and go with the standard shakers. Reap the rewards of your legwork and buy em up, good for you!

So here's the other question...just how much power do you really need for an amp to drive these things? I'm going to do 6 shakers using the 3-in-series-on-each-channel method for a 12 Ohm load. I found a stereo receiver I can pick up cheap (like $10) that does (per channel) 55W at 8 Ohms and 50W at 6 Ohms. Will this do the job? Or do I need to keep looking for some more power?

Thanks!
post #346 of 2442
That is more than enough power!!!! That is the same specs of the cheap $20 or so receiver that I picked up used..Can't get halfway on the volume,and this is with 6 shakers wired as you plan to as well..You'll be fine.

brickie
post #347 of 2442
Samurai Jack
Sorry for that Ouch. I just had to know.

Yep! Got to order another 2 or 3 pair of the non-Pros.

I know what you mean about the fins. They do look cool!

As far as power, I can't say. For $10, it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work, just resale it and keep looking. Heck! I bet you can find someone to trade your extra pair of Pros for a reciever or amp with more power.
post #348 of 2442
anyone know how i can keep my amp temps down ? or whats acceptable?

I touched mine after a long movie and it was rather warm..
post #349 of 2442
Quote:


anyone know how i can keep my amp temps down ?

Yeah, get some with fins like mine!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

What's rather warm? I think they'd have to get pretty hot before they were any kind of a real hazard. How do you have them attached?
post #350 of 2442
Quote:


That is more than enough power!!!!

Cool, thanks brickie. Good to know that'll suffice. At least I'll be able to stick the old receiver in a rack and it won't look out of place. Guess I'll still need an fmod now, though. Anybody have one leftover from buying a pair they're looking to part with?
post #351 of 2442
Samurai Jack
If you don't find a single, I'd be insteaded in splitting a pair.
post #352 of 2442
Quote:


Originally posted by PAW
My email to Aura Sound ask:
...snip...
2 - Besides from the fins on the Pro Bass Shakers, are there any internal differences between them and the Bass Shakers? Like a bigger piston, bigger magnet, etc.

Their answer was:

No difference at 5 watts same Lbf...fins dissipate heat better (stability in coil impedance) no difference in internal composition.

Comparing the Pros to non-Pros:
The internals are the same
Same output at lower inputs
Fins are just for cooling

So, unless you are driving the Pros harder, the non-Pros should work just fine.

Time to call Parts Express and order some non-Pros before they run out.

Those are some expensive heat-sinks. (I guess the binding posts are expensive too)

Kinda glad I got the non-pros...

Joe L.
post #353 of 2442
Quote:


Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Yeah, get some with fins like mine!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

What's rather warm? I think they'd have to get pretty hot before they were any kind of a real hazard. How do you have them attached?


Its got some fins y0.. they are all about 120 degrees
post #354 of 2442
Quote:


Originally posted by Want2race

Its got some fins y0.. they are all about 120 degrees

6 in a method that provides 5.7ohms.

basically I have the cutoff set to 40hz and the volume at full power. So the shakers dont shake often but they hit hard when they do..

Its stuck in the wall.. and since I just lost my insurance carrier.. I dont want any fires!
post #355 of 2442
Quote:


Its got some fins y0

Noooo, I meant fins on your shakers! (Sorry, still trying to justify that $100 premuim somehow after being humbled by PAW, hehe).

You run six shakers at a full 240 watts? Isn't there a way to wire them where you wouldn't have that much impedence and wouldn't have to drive the amp quite so hard?

And yeah, in the wall I'd worry about what amounts to a space-heater. I don't think 120 degF is nearly hot enough to cook drywall or anything, but it doesn't strike me as entirely safe either.
post #356 of 2442
Want2Race
I'm assuming you asking if 120 degree F is too hot. I'm not an expert but I wouldn't think that's a problem. Heck! That's just a summer day in Pheniox.
post #357 of 2442
PAW,

Were you thinking about going with a 70Hz or a 50Hz fmod? I can't quite decide. I don't want these shaking at the wrong time...but I DO want them to shake (they need to earn their keep after what I paid, heh).
post #358 of 2442
Samurai Jack
Take a look at this graph

Freq vs. Force

There's very little force at 70Hz.

Does the fmod do a hard cut off? If so, it the 70Hz might be worth a try. Else, I'd go with the 50Hz.

I'm leaning toward the 50Hz
post #359 of 2442
I would buy the fmods on ebay.. there is someone selling them for $23 and you can pick any 2 you want.. so why not take 1 of each!

Personally my systems running 40hz.

and finally I called parts express tech support.. The guy said run it flat out and it will turn off if it gets too hot.. but he doesnt think it will! So thats what I am gonna try one day soon!
post #360 of 2442
Interesting to note that one of the bullets reads:

* LPF (low pass filter), if used, should be set to 100Hz

I think the fmod has a "steep" but not "hard" cutoff.

I'd hate for a well-engineered LFE effect to register on the shakers as just a...silence...silence...SUDDEN THUD...silence...SUDDEN THUD.

Up at 70Hz, you'd either:

(a) catch a bit more "subtlety" form the effects, where you get a little force from the slightly higher low-freq tones, and a LOT more from the lower-freq tones, for the overall effect of having a shake kind of roll-on and roll-off when the effect requires it (imagine Sauron exploding in the prologue to Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring, the descending-scale slurred wave)

OR

(b) get shake where it takes away from the subtlety of the shaker effect overall, and/or shakes (although more softly) at questionable times, making the shaking too often, too noticeable/gimmicky, and fatiguing.


70Hz sounds pretty low to me. I'd say (b) is more likely up at around your receivers more standard, say, 90Hz. I think the effect of the 70Hz fmod, given the graph you linked to, is more likely to produce (a), as in something desirable. But I'm not sure.

Somebody take a guess...what freq. is a car door slamming? Or Darth Vader's voice? Or some similar stuff that you wouldn't want causing a shake?


At first I was leaning towards 70 to capture everything...then 50 to make sure this wasn't something people would immediately notice and localize...then 70 again after seeing the graph...and now after typing this, I feel like I talked myself down to 50 again.

What's the general consensus, or is there one?
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