Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 23

Yeah, I thought that was the case. I haven't thought through the whole thing completely yet, but I was thinking of using two receivers (an old Kenwood to power the shakers) and plan on buying the Yamaha RXV-2500. From the Yamaha receiver, "Y" the sub out connection and have one side go to the sub and the other go to an input of the Kenwood receiver (not sure if this is doable or how the exact connections would be yet). I would assume after the Y split, I could attach the FMOD before (either end of the RCA patch cable) the Kenwood for the shakers. This would limit the lower frequencies just to the shakers. If this is doable, I would think I would have to split the overall input to the Kenwood into a Left and Right audio input? Or can I get away with a sub out and a sub pre-out connected to the Kenwood? I plan on 8 aura shakers and run two serially into the left and right channels on both A and B speaker selections (already tested this).

Thoughts?

Bud

What you describe is exactly how I have my setup (other than brand of receiver). One note I would add is to put the FMOD right after the Y-splitter so it's not directly connected to the shaker receiver (and thus has some flexibility to move around).

That setup should work perfectly... may need quite a bit of power for 16 ohms on each channel, but it should still work fine.

Speculatin' 'bout a Re-seever's impee-dance VS out put switchin' is risky bissness.

I've mentioned this before, but here it is again.

Simply attach a set of speakers to one output or the other (A or B)

Push in that respective button to hear "whatever".

Now push in the button that has no speakers attached to that output.

If your sound goes away, the your outputs are in series. Sound sticks around? The outputs are in parallel.

As a general rule, with older equipment, if the Minimum impedance is 8 ohms, the output will be in parallel. 4 Ohms, and the output will be in series, unless indeed the outputs have separate Power supplies and Output boards.

NO equipment I've seen discussed on this thread follows that scenario, excepting some of the gear I personally have related to.

The simple test outlined above can/will dispel all doubts.

PS,

Wha happen'd to the post about A/B switchin'. I just looked back, an it were gone?

PPS,

oh......there it is. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...53#post5463553

MM,

I might have misinterpreted things (or I'm just ignorant).

Let me repeat what I think you said to make sure I understand. If you connect a pair of speakers (pair A) and hear music say, then select speaker pair B (with no speakers attached) and no longer hear music, the A/B speaker selection are in series. Correct?

So based on the input from Lazyhaze (copied here for clarification below), my interpretation was that if I connected two in series on each L&R channel on speakers A and on speakers B (option 1 in diagram) it would be equivalent to connecting 4 in series on each of the L&R channels on speakers A only (option B). The only problem with option 2 is that I lose the ability to turn half the shakers off. If I use option 1 and decide to turn speakers B off, is this a problem? Did I mess up?

On his other comment, I don't think I have a separate power for speakers B.

I'll run your test later today.



EDIT: Based on what I understood, my A&B are in parallel since I still here music with both A&B on. Here's a stupid question for you... are left and right considered to be in parallel? if that's the case, then I have 2*2 = 8 Ohms on left and 8 ohms on right which means net 4. If I do this on both A&B and these are in parallel, then I have a net of 2ohms. This would be a problem, huh? But, if left and right are not in parallel, then I assume I have 16 ohms in parallel with another 16 on speakers B which nets out to 8 ohms?

The other option would be to do what Deja-vue did here. My only question here is are they 4 in series and then in parallel on the side side (left) or are these four in series on each channel (Left and right). I guess if its the latter, that I could control on side or the other by the balance control?

Tim,

As far as the connection to the actual shaker receiver, is this what you did? See file attached.

Bud

Exactly, Bud.

Do the FMODs need to be placed before the audio in or can they be placed on the audio out?

Thanks,
Skip

Skip, have you looked at Bud's attachment two posts up (shaker_setup.jpg)? Does that answer your question?

Technically, you can do it either way, but I prefer just after the Y-cable that's connected to the main receiver's audio out.

Yup, I saw the post. Just curious if it could be done either way for future reference.

Thanks,
Skip

I'll be getting 6 shakers when I get chairs (2 rows of 3) this summer. In addition, we'll buy a subwoofer amp (Parts Express) to drive these things. Until then, we are doing some wiring for additional speakers, etc. in our room. In anticipation of shakers, I want to make sure we are wired correctly. I'd like to run speaker wire behind drywall & then out to the shakers.

My question is - do I run 2 sets of standard (2 strand) speaker wire to the eventual location? Or would 1 set do?

Thanks!
Bets

Betsy, the most flexible solution to prewire for shakers is to run a 2-strand speaker wire to each shaker (from the rack), and do all the parallel/series wiring at the rack. I'm just laying that out as a best case, if-you-can-do-it-then-do-it scenario.

To get the job done in the specific case you're mentioning, you should be able to get away with one 2-strand wire to each riser.

Thanks Tim! We'll run wire tonight.

Here's an interesting question (for me anyway). Looking at Clark's transducers they have a description of what they call the "Jurrasic Couch" setup. Essentially they use three of their transducers in a couch, much like we use 3 shakers. Where they differ however is what they do with them. Instead of running them all off the sub channel, they only run the center one off the sub. They run the left and right ones off the LF and RF speakers, with them set to large. They claim it gives you a better sense of direction for the tactile feel.

Sooo... if you are only concerned with wiring a single couch, couldn't we duplicate the same effect with shakers? For instance, I have a Denon 3805. Currently I'm running my LCR speakers off 2 2 channel amps with the 4th channel driving my 3 shakers. I've aslo got a PB10 for my sub. My Alpha 50 fronts are set to small, and my crossover is set to 80hz. Using the idea from Clark, I could drive the shakers directly off the FL and FR terminals on the Denon and set the speakers to Large. I would probably then put a filter in line to cut them so that they only responded above 80hz or so, and not screw up my other bass. The center shaker I would leave connected to the sub channel and the amp.

Anyone see any flaws in my theory? Is this a road anyone else has pursued?

Thanks,
MP

madpoet, this is technically a possibility, but as someone else has said before (I think Bob, regarding out of phase shakers), if you can tell a difference between the shaker next to you and the one under you, you're sitting too close.

That said, I suppose there may be a difference in whether they are actually outputting or not... that should be relatively obvious. Interesting... that may be something worth looking into. So you'd want to put a Y-splitter on each LF/RF pre-amp outs, and at least one FMOD after that Y-split to the shaker amp/receiver. One downside to this whole approach is that you'll need at least two amps/receivers (or a multi-channel amp)... since you'll probably use one receiver and put the LF output to a CD left input, RF output to the CD right input, but then need a separate amp for the center shaker (sub channel). By the way, 80Hz seems much too high, because there will be rolloff above that as well.

Well, after giving my idea some more thought it seems impractical for one reason... volume levels. Unless I amp channels for the shakers instead of driving them off my speaker terminals for FL/FR, I can't independently control the volume levels. And since I REALLY don't need more amps, I'll leave the idea alone for now. But it does have me curious!

Yeah.. I suppose you could do it the opposite way and use the AVR to power your fronts, but you probably don't want to do it that way (otherwise you wouldn't have gotten the external amps in the first place...) But it'd be an interesting experiment nevertheless.

If I have some spare time I might give it a try just to see what the effect is like. I'm not entirely sold on "directional transducing" but it will be fun to try.

-MP

If you run multiple transducers you may experience the phenomenon of transducer cancellation.

Put crudely; It's hard to feel the snap at your heels when you're getting punched in the face.

I have experienced bass shaker cancellation (and it's easy to demonstrate) where the most powerful effect overshadows any other. The transducer is still shaking but the body simply can't cope with the additional sensory stimulation.

It is better to run devices that operate at different frequencies that affect different areas of the couch than together (footstools for example).

In short; sometimes more is just more - not better.

am i doing something wrong-?bass shakers not working
I connected in series 2 bass shakers each to the left and right front speakerchannels of an integra dtr 5.3 5.3 85 watts perchannel receiver.
I than wired my 2nd subout from my pre pro to the integra (split l/r to integra)
i am not getting any response from the auras- tried 5th element dvd-but no "shake"
thanks

"am i doing something wrong-?bass shakers not working
I connected in series 2 bass shakers each to the left and right front speakerchannels of an integra dtr 5.3 5.3 85 watts perchannel receiver.
I than wired my 2nd subout from my pre pro to the integra (split l/r to integra)
i am not getting any response from the auras- tried 5th element dvd-but no "shake"
thanks"




I had the same problem, at first. For me, the resolution was to loosen up on the mounting screws. I've found that it's pretty crucial that your mounting surface is flat, and that you should set the screws just to the point to where you can't move the units with your hand. In other words, tighten them down just enough to secure them, and not any tighter.

I had mine so securely fastened, I could just barely feel the shake. If that doesn't do it, and you're wired properly, then someone here will have some help for you, I'm certain.

Good luck,

Marty

Try putting the receiver in stereo mode as well, to focus the power to only two channels.

the shakers appear to be not working there is not even a hum coming from them.But I doubt that
all 4 would be bad.strange

Perhaps diagram your exact wire configuration for us, as it may be the problem. You should be able to feel something from them... maybe hook your sub to the 2nd preout to test it's functionality as well (with the exact same source material as you use to test the shakers... test tone?)

Try tuning the old receiver to a "Rap" or "Pop" music station. The shakers should be vibrating in step with the music. That will prove the wiring to the shakers and let you concentrate on the feed from the LFE out on your main receiver.

Hey Guys...........,

He said there was NO hum, nor nuthin' cumin frum 'em.

First thing first, jossix,

If you have a Muti-meter, anolog or digital, read across the + / -- to assure that you have 8 Ohm load.

8 Ohms, eh?

Check your Receiver's outputs and be sure to determine whether A or B is being used, and then be sure the appropriate button/switch is engaged. Also be sure the other Speakers are NOT engaged. Do as multimj said, and switch to Stereo Mode.

Use the "Aux" or MD/Tape Inputs.

"Y" off the Sub 1 output if you KNOW it to be functioning.

Crank the Interga up to 70% volume minimum.

Run a Sub-Woofer Test Tone.

Still no shake?

Your cursed. Live with it.

"Your Intrega is Blown, or your connecting cables are bogus"

Just added a 50 Hz low pass F-Mod to the LFE signal that feeds our shaker amplifier. Tested it with Ice Age DVD this evening. Works very well, and shakes our seats when appropriate.

BTW, just ordered the F-Mod from Parts Express over the weekend. Excellent delivery by Parts Express and UPS!

Unfortunately, they sell them in pairs... interested in selling your other one? I've got them queued up in my PE shopping cart with a host of other stuff I'll be ordering soon, but hate to have to order a pair when I just need one.

Bud

Bud,

We're using our old A/V stuff in our den. I'd like to hang on to the extra F-Mod just in case I install shakers in the recliners there.

Not a problem! Thanks.

I finally hooked up my first Aura Pro under one of my Berks. Wow!

But the rest of them will be more challenging... can someone markup this diagram with red and black lines to suggest the best way to connect these (I numbered the red and black connectors if it's easier to describe in words).



I have an 8 ohm subwoofer output on my amp.
I have 3 Aura Pro's (4 ohms) for each of my Berkline recliners.
I have 4 Aura 25W's (4 ohms) to put under my 4'x8' riser for the 2nd row.
I have an (8 ohm) subwoofer (my other subwoofer has it's own amp and is driven by a separate LFE signal output).

Thanks!