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New LG DVI Player Impression - Page 2

post #31 of 532
12/2/03 at 5:48pm
Quote:


Originally posted by AVgod

The ATSC/Quam HD tuner is a nice bonus. Pictures from rooftop antenna and Comcast cable were both excellent - better than any Gen3/4 tuners I've seen. Maybe these Gen5 ones are the real deal. Of course, since LG holds the ATSC 8VSB patents, the tuner performance should be no surprise.

Can you elaborate ? What channels can you receive from Comcast , just analog or digital as well ? What exactly does "ATSC/Quam" imply ? Is there a FAQ I should read
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post #32 of 532
12/2/03 at 5:53pm
I had one on order but now decided to just get Cable to save some money and get a few new channels(Comcast has all the ota stuff in HD here).

Though i'm curious why they don't sell the dvd player as a seprate, going to force me to get a Bravo!
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post #33 of 532
12/2/03 at 6:37pm
I have no relationship with LG. I know their people and I'm currently playing with their products. I do this for a lot of companies - spoils of an ill-spent lifetime teaching people and companies about AV technology.

The 3510 has a Clear Quam tuner, meaning it can receive unscrambled cable HD signals. Cable transmits its HD differently than do over-the-air broadcasters. Over-the-air uses 8VSB modulation and cable uses quadrature amplitude modulation (called Quam or QAM). In Sacramento ABC, NBC, ESPN and INHD are available currently. HBO and Showtime are up but scrambled, so the 3510 ignores them. Every local station comes in through the over-the-air antenna ( we are fully digital and mostly HD up here). Since it has no NTSC section, it can not receive normal cable channels, only the HD ones.
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post #34 of 532
12/2/03 at 7:32pm
AVgod - I have comcast as well. With this box do I need to subscribe (ie pay the rental fee for HD box) to get comcast's HD or do I just need digital service and this box ? It looks like I get the same HD channels as you so hopefully it will bahave the same.
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post #35 of 532
12/2/03 at 7:37pm
If you have digital level service, no subscription is necessary.
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post #36 of 532
12/2/03 at 8:47pm
I don't believe you need digital service, at least not in Chicago, to receive in the clear QAM. Other threads have discussed this issue.
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post #37 of 532
12/2/03 at 8:49pm
AVgod, do you have any quality comparisons with other DVI DVD players?
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post #38 of 532
12/2/03 at 10:55pm
I, for one, can't wait for the first review of "Bravo D1 vs. LG 3510." That's going to be a very interesting thread
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post #39 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:02am
Quote:


Originally posted by AVgod
I have been working with the production model of this piece for the past two weeks. I've tried it on a Marantz Vp12S3, a Sony VLPHS20, VPL400Q, KV34XBR910, KDF60XBR950, Pioneer PRO1000HDI, and several LG, Runco, and Fujitsu plasmas, as well as Mitsubishi RPTVs.

As stated above, Disney releases disable the scaler and only 480p is available on the outputs. However, all other tested commercial DVDs output at any selected resolution, including 720p and 1080i, on Component, DVI, and RGB outputs. ...

So what is Disney doing that is different then the other studios (sorry if this has been asked before, but this doesn't sound right to me)?

Don't most commercial DVDs use CSS, so LG is "breaking the rules" by outputing >480p on the component outputs?

AVgod,

When you were testing the DVI output with the Disney DVDs, you tried them on HDCP compliant displays?

Thanks,
John Flegert
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post #40 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by AVgod
As stated above, Disney releases disable the scaler and only 480p is available on the outputs.

On the fixed pixel devices, the 720p output is preferable. The picture is quite sharp, with excellent color and no noticeable artifacts or ringing. Edge enhancement is not an issue at any image size.

The Mits RPTVs and the VPL400q (which does not display 480p/720p) really loved the 1080i output.


The LG-3150 DVI output works with the Sony HS-20 DVI input connector for Disney disks for 480p, 720p and 1080i.

I have seen the HDCP warning message though at times but only when fast loading.
Try slowing down when initially loading the disk as the HDCP needs to communicate between the player and the display.

I will connect to my GWIII DVI input this evening and report the results.

In any event it "sounds like" people need to start making personal backup copies so their purchased movies will play back with no fuss.
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post #41 of 532
12/3/03 at 12:17pm
In Sacramento, the HD channels are up-band, next to the music channels. Comcast puts a low-pass on the tap of non-digital subscribers, trapping those frequencies out. Digital service removes the trap, making the HD channels accessable on the house line.
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post #42 of 532
12/3/03 at 12:41pm
Every DVI player I've seen looked pretty good. That's because you avoid using at least one transducer (a D/A convertor) and often more than one (if you have a fixed pixel display). Also, digital signals are more robust when they're in copper than are analog signals, so the quality of wire and shielding and termination and dielectric (etc.) is much less important and they are imprevious to RF and other air-borne maladies.

That having been said, the 3510 takes a big step forward because of its scaler, which works on the digital read right after coming off the optical transducer. Virtually all other scalers work in the analog domain or wait until the progressive layer has been de-interlaced by the player (as you know, the recorded signal is progressive, but virtually all players first deinterlace it to 480i (for the composite and Y/C outs) and then relace it to create 480p - two more processing layers - never a good thing.)
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post #43 of 532
12/3/03 at 2:43pm
AVGod-

Is the Zenith DVB318 DVD DVI-HTCP player going to use the same "innards" as the 3510A? Any idea on its release date? Have you had a chance to test one out? Thanks.

P.S. In the HDTV Equipment Forum there are several reports of no problem getting 720p/1080i out thru DVI with Disney DVDs.
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post #44 of 532
12/3/03 at 2:57pm
AVGod,

I think its the other way around. Most DVDs are encoded interlaced. Infact, the Secrets website mentions the JVC players as having a poor interlaced output because it was based on the poorly deinterlaced signal (thanks to the Mediamatics chipset) instead of directly reading it off the DVD.
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post #45 of 532
12/3/03 at 3:11pm
AVGod,

I don't suppose we'll ever see it here in the UK? Honestly, the lack of PAL progressive machines available over here is VERY frustrating
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post #46 of 532
12/3/03 at 3:12pm
Quote:


Originally posted by softengr
I will connect to my GWIII DVI input this evening and report the results.

I'm very curious about this setup. I have a 50" GWII and am looking for both an HDTV receiver and DVD player... this looks like it should fit the bill. Please let us know how the Disney disks work on your GWIII.

Thanks.
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post #47 of 532
12/3/03 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by moeronn
I'm very curious about this setup. I have a 50" GWII and am looking for both an HDTV receiver and DVD player... this looks like it should fit the bill. Please let us know how the Disney disks work on your GWIII.

Thanks.

I tried the following disks with my Sony GWIII, LG-3150 set to 720p using the DVI connections only.

1) Monsters Inc.
2) Toy Story 2
3) Pirates Of The Caribbean
4) Finding Nemo

Turn off power, unplugged between disks, alternated between disks, fast forwarded, reversed, film-to-disk menu and back, 3150 set-up and back. Many combinations. Spent an hour testing.

**** NOT ONE ERROR OF ANY KIND *****

I've owned the unit 5 days. When I first got it I did see the HDCP text screen.

Not very consistent? But true. A lot of electronic s gear behaves better after a break-in period.

Don't forget the software is initializing the ram and flash for the first time too. Then there is the region code too. A problem in one area can cause the HDCP communication to become starved. Like the servo stacking up interrupts...

IMHO the HDCP copy protection appears to have been properly designed by Sony and LG.

Make sure the DVD cable is firmly connected.

I've got a feeling that this subject is going to get beat to death at AVS forum. It could spread like a virus.
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post #48 of 532
12/3/03 at 3:53pm
so does anyone know a retailer in california (sf bay area) that carries this?

thanks

vk
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post #49 of 532
12/3/03 at 3:54pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
In the HDTV Equipment Forum there are several reports of no problem getting 720p/1080i out thru DVI with Disney DVDs.

Are you refering to "other" DVI capable DVD players?" I still see no evidence that the LST-3510a isn't crippled as far as Disney type transfers (what ever that means) are concerned.

Is this a firmware fixible problem or is LG the only one following the rules?

For me this is on point:

So what is Disney doing that is different then the other studios (sorry if this has been asked before, but this doesn't sound right to me)?

Don't most commercial DVDs use CSS, so LG is "breaking the rules" by outputing >480p on the component outputs?

AVgod,

When you were testing the DVI output with the Disney DVDs, you tried them on HDCP compliant displays?

Thanks,
John Flegert
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post #50 of 532
12/3/03 at 3:56pm
Quote:


Originally posted by vksf01
so does anyone know a retailer in california (sf bay area) that carries this?

thanks

vk

Century Stereo
San Jose
Laserland
San Jose
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post #51 of 532
12/3/03 at 4:01pm
Any online dealers ? LG says there are no dealers with 100 miles of NH
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post #52 of 532
12/3/03 at 4:06pm
Quote:


Originally posted by AVgod
That having been said, the 3510 takes a big step forward because of its scaler, which works on the digital read right after coming off the optical transducer. Virtually all other scalers work in the analog domain or wait until the progressive layer has been de-interlaced by the player (as you know, the recorded signal is progressive, but virtually all players first deinterlace it to 480i (for the composite and Y/C outs) and then relace it to create 480p - two more processing layers - never a good thing.)

The 480p > 480i extra step is news to me but I only know what I read here.

It seems to me that whatever improvements LG's DVD player have made they are negated by the apparent fact that Disney DVDs are not handled (DVI 720p output) in the same way that other DVI capable DVD players play them. 480p over DVI just doesn't do it for me.

It would help to know why the LG DVD player has this limitation.
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post #53 of 532
12/3/03 at 4:32pm
Quote:


Originally posted by softengr
I tried the following disks with my Sony GWIII, LG-3150 set to 720p using the DVI connections only.

1) Monsters Inc.
2) Toy Story 2
3) Pirates Of The Caribbean
4) Finding Nemo

Turn off power, unplugged between disks, alternated between disks, fast forwarded, reversed, film-to-disk menu and back, 3150 set-up and back. Many combinations. Spent an hour testing.

**** NOT ONE ERROR OF ANY KIND *****

This is good news, if I am understanding you correctly. What happens if you dont power off and unplug? Just eject and switch disks?

htwaits - from these tests, it seems like the player does not have problems playing 720P with the Disney DVDs.
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post #54 of 532
12/3/03 at 4:42pm
Quote:


Originally posted by htwaits
Century Stereo
San Jose
Laserland
San Jose

Excellent!

Thanks!

vk
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post #55 of 532
12/3/03 at 4:47pm
How about dealers in the Long Beach, CA area? Found one place in thousand Oaks, but they are a bit far and wouldn't give any price info over the phone.
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post #56 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:16pm
Quote:


Originally posted by rajdawar
AVGod,

I think its the other way around. Most DVDs are encoded interlaced. Infact, the Secrets website mentions the JVC players as having a poor interlaced output because it was based on the poorly deinterlaced signal (thanks to the Mediamatics chipset) instead of directly reading it off the DVD.

Raj

Nope. All DVDs start with a progressive scan layer. That's the original codec which we selected during the implimentation phase. Then almost all convert the read layer to interlaced. At this stage it's pretty easy, since the coding was structured with this in mind. Remember, all first gen players were interlaced. The Faroudja was the first player to read and output the pro layer directly. Many thousands of dollars. Now we just use a cheap lacing chip.
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post #57 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:28pm
Quote:


Originally posted by vksf01
so does anyone know a retailer in california (sf bay area) that carries this?

thanks

vk

VK

Your closest HTSA dealer is Paradyme Sound and Vision in Sacramento. They don't sell on the web but they have a website.
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post #58 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:30pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
AVGod-

Is the Zenith DVB318 DVD DVI-HTCP player going to use the same "innards" as the 3510A? Any idea on its release date? Have you had a chance to test one out? Thanks.

P.S. In the HDTV Equipment Forum there are several reports of no problem getting 720p/1080i out thru DVI with Disney DVDs.

Unknown. The LG guys say no, but no prepros have shipped and things change. I'll see it at CES so if no one updates before then, I'll post what I find out.
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post #59 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:38pm
Quote:


Originally posted by moeronn
How about dealers in the Long Beach, CA area? Found one place in thousand Oaks, but they are a bit far and wouldn't give any price info over the phone.

LG has no mail order issues so dealers can ship to you if you send them a check. I know that my local HTSA member, Paradyme Sound and Vision in Sacramento, has mailed a few already. Their floor pricing is a c-note cheaper than the pricing I've seen quoted here.
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post #60 of 532
12/3/03 at 5:40pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Diarmuid
AVGod,

I don't suppose we'll ever see it here in the UK? Honestly, the lack of PAL progressive machines available over here is VERY frustrating

]

LG says they have Euro versions in the works. Still, after all those years of your TVs looking better than ours (except for that annoying field flicker) it's nice to be on the other side.
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