or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › Austin, TX - HDTV
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Austin, TX - HDTV - Page 20

post #571 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by BR453
I can relate to Driver's frustration with TWC. I tried cable twice. When first went digital and when they got HD-8000HD.
That was the reason to subscribe and when I get it home the only outlput that works is the component! If you rented a car and got down the road to discover the AC, heater, radio and lighter didn't work and they told you to just keep driving and maybe it will work in a few months wouldn't you take it back? As long as people let Corps treat them like this they will continue to get away with it.


actually I would research the car beforehand. I would take the time to find out that the AC, heater, radio, etc didn't work. I would be a knowledgable customer and wouldn't blame the company for "broken" parts which they never claimed were working in the first place.
post #572 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by utstimpy
actually I would research the car beforehand. I would take the time to find out that the AC, heater, radio, etc didn't work. I would be a knowledgable customer and wouldn't blame the company for "broken" parts which they never claimed were working in the first place.

Why go after this guy about something that is not easily done? Maybe none of his friends have the product he's buying. Maybe he went into it thinking a Fortune 500 company like Time Warner would have their products together and not offer excrement up as a 'real' product. They don't tell you that their products are not fully functional, they don't tell you that they don't offer customizable menus, they don't tell you that the PVR has a habit of crashing and losing all its data (at least in my experience with it). And they don't tell you that their picture quality is worse than their competitors. Basically they don't tell you that you are getting a product that is buggy, tempermental, and substandard.

Oh yeah, one other item - Maybe he didn't know about the "'Austin, TX --> The OFFICIAL 2004 HDTV Thread" aka "'Austin, TX --> The OFFICIAL 2004 Time Warner Thread" or maybe 'Austin, TX --> The OFFICIAL 2004 HDTV Time Warner Beta Testers Forum"

YEs I'm being sarcastic! But I've rec'd more than a few PM's that are sick of all the TW hardware issues that constantly plague these pages. Personally I don't understand why anyone would put up with it. Reminds me of the Discount Tire commercial where the old lady throws the tire though the window. Ralph Nader would have a field day with TW...
post #573 of 6866
Ah, but I did research at SA's website. They never said it did not work. TW said it worked and Iask for a box WITH DVI. I don't like it when people lie to me when taking my money.
post #574 of 6866
Does anyone have an ETA on my TW hardware? I am waiting specifically for the DV7500.78sdfa port to come available on the 3250 opening in the 8000 explorer blah blah blah..... hardware...broken....when?....TimeWarner...TimeWarner...Time Warner...blah....blah...8000....DVI....3250


This is a high-level summary of the last 30 days posts. In case anyone cant handle reading the "Time Warner Beta Testers Thread".

(I couldn't resist)
post #575 of 6866
I tried an A-B comparison test using my Z2 projector connected to the 8000HD component out vs. the Pace HD box connected by DVI.

I could not see a difference (they both looked excellent):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...postid=3652900


Regards,

Harrell
post #576 of 6866
Thank goodness I haven't been caught in the time-shifting vortex.

If there is something good on when the TV is on -- great. If not, I do something else.

Time to fire up the shortwave radio.....
post #577 of 6866
I'll chime in and say that I'm very tired of my 8000HD DVR box crashing about once a week. However, it is totally worth it for all the bliss of time-shifting! I do well to not think about firmware upgrades...I just check back here about once a month.
post #578 of 6866
Since FOX has anounced that they will offer all their NFL broadcasts in 720P starting this fall, has anyone heard from our local FOX station going full power & broadcasting 720P ? Also DirecTV was to start carrying FOX-HD, any word on that also?
I'm still using my RS double bow-tie, sitting on top of my equipment rack, no problems except no FOX (1626 & Brodie area).
post #579 of 6866
I tried emailing our local Fox station a few weeks ago with that exact question, but I have recieved no response...
post #580 of 6866
On a not-really-related note:

Anyone know what that new antenna is downtown? I'm not in that area very often, so I just noticed it. I don't think it can much more than a few months old.

Its near 15th street, a few blocks east of MoPac. Red and White tower, and a large blinking light on it.

Kind of stuck out to me, I was surprised (watch it have been there for years, I just never noticed it before).
post #581 of 6866
Well gang, I'm new on the block, I got my HDTV ready set last Oct (Toshiba 51HX83). I'm an old fart, Austin Cable Vision & then TW........I've been with DirecTV for about 5 yrs now..........I will be checkin in more now. I live off Brodie close to Manachaca. For OTA I have the Radio Shack double bow-tie sitting on my equipment rack, all channels are wonderful, except...no FOX. I have a Sony SATHD300 for a STB.......I've emailed FCC about our FOX station.(awhile back).............no surprise, no responce. But I will do my part in contacting the engineer of FOX here......I soooooo want FOX-HD......

Been in Austin (from Amarillo area) since 1972......
post #582 of 6866
KTBC update...

I was told by one of their engineers this evening that while they do indeed expect to be in 720P for the fall football season (perhaps even well before that time), they do NOT expect to go to full power for the forseeable future.


The whys for this are pretty complicated and include, but are not limited to...

1. It was only recently that Fox Corporate commtted to ANY HDTV format.

2. KTBC in particular has a VERY old tower that must be replaced.

3. Fox Corporate is cheap. Don't expect it to do anything it doesn't have to until it has to...and at the moment the KTBC signal meets FCC requirements.


So unless you can actually SEE the tower on Mt. Larson west of town, you may need to get the Fox signal off of TWC.
post #583 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by austinsho

3. Fox Corporate is cheap. Don't expect it to do anything it doesn't have to until it has to...and at the moment the KTBC signal meets FCC requirements.

Fox Corporate is not cheap. Fox is the only network that is providing an end to end HDTV distribution system to the affiliates and is paying for the whole thing. All the station has to do is feed the signal into their transmitter. When it's done, Fox will be providing the cleanest distribution system of any of the networks.

Read more about "the splicer" here.

And Fox Digital, the networks facility in L.A., makes the other networks look like they're in the stone ages.

I'm sure you guys are way frustrated with KTBC, which has always been a pit, but the O&O's are about to get real aggressive about HDTV.
post #584 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by austinsho
KTBC update...
So unless you can actually SEE the tower on Mt. Larson west of town, you may need to get the Fox signal off of TWC.

OR, you will be able to get it from D* when they begin to carry the Fox locals which will probably be at or around the time that the Fox HD signal is "turned on"
post #585 of 6866
I have had the 8000HD for over month now and it has never crashed or lost shows on me. The only problem I see with HD is that if you watch a
show that is recording, it kicks out of playback when the recorder finishes recording, and you have to replay it and fast-forward out to where you where. This is easily avoided by just waiting until the show is over or starting within 15-20 minutes of the show start and ffw thru the commercials to get thru it before it ends.

Now, SD is a different story. I asked it to record Actors Studio off Bravo and all at first, I never got anything in the list. Then, I got four shows a day but when you played them there was nothing there, and they where almost impossible to delete. I have since given up on SD. Is anyone seeing this
problem? How do I get the latest software installed or does it happen automagically?

Back to the HD, I am very impressed with the quality and reliability of the
HD8000 for timeshifting the HD shows I watch. It provides all I really need
not to miss shows I like or be a slave to the networks schedules. Considering that there STILL is no other hardware out there that will allow me to do this, I am thrilled that for 9 bucks a month, I have the basics of what I need covered, except for NBC. Thankfully there are only two shows a week worth watching, and my OTA attached digital VCR can handle them
assuming my Mits HDTV does not forget what time it is. I hate saying this but I wish TWC or KXAN would get there acts together already and put NBC
on TWC so I could say I was almost completely happy with my TWC-HD solution. (Of course I am not mentioning all of the non-network HD we
cannot get like UPN or SciFi, or PPV HD movies)

Fortunately I can download HD versions of Enterprise and SG1 commercial free every week, and I think ultimately the entertainment industry needs
to provide a way of doing this legitamately (even for a small fee) so we
can tell TWC, KXAN, and KBEJ to stick it you no where.

(And no I am not a lemming, I have a TWO computers in my living room,
one was a home made PVR for SD timeshifting that I have had for a
couple years now but was made obsolete by the HD2000 and now servers
as a file server, and the other drives my HDTV with a component 480P signal and my Dolby Digital sound system with 5.1 optical audio.)
post #586 of 6866
Well, perhaps saying "Fox Corporate is cheap" is a bit of a wide-ranging statement. However, given the history of the corporation in general and Murodch in particular, I don't think anyone can deny that he watches his money very, very, carefully.

On a local basis, when equipment does find its way into KTBC, it seems to be good stuff. But there's not nearly enough of it and there is NO timetable to upgrade the strength of signal...and no hint from corporate that one is coming.

Perhaps a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that the locals never know what equipment is coming until it walks in the door. For the folks at KTBC know, their new xmtr could be in Dallas now and will be delivered in the morning. Somehow, I don't think that's the case, but that's an example of what causes when network doesn't communicate.

And Bonoc, there is absolutely no way we're going to see a 720P signal off of DirecTV from KTBC anytime in the near...or forseeable...future due to bandwidth limitations. And given the POOR standard signals off of DirecTV right now, I don't think we should hold our breath for any improvements in that area.
post #587 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by mitchrc
Fox Corporate is not cheap. Fox is the only network that is providing an end to end HDTV distribution system to the affiliates and is paying for the whole thing. All the station has to do is feed the signal into their transmitter. When it's done, Fox will be providing the cleanest distribution system of any of the networks.

Read more about "the splicer" here.

And Fox Digital, the networks facility in L.A., makes the other networks look like they're in the stone ages.

I'm sure you guys are way frustrated with KTBC, which has always been a pit, but the O&O's are about to get real aggressive about HDTV.

Having seen some the distribution centers for the other networks in the recent past I might agree. But the "more mature" networks have had to reinvest, redesign and restructure their plants to accommodate the HDTV signal.

Fox should pay for the whole thing--they and the other "minor" networks are the laggards in the group. Especially the Fox O&O's.

And, no, Fox will NOT necessarily provide the cleanest dist. signal of any of the networks. If their HDTV signal compares favorably with ATSC standards then they will simply be "on par" with the other networks, provding a nice digital signal with nice digital programming.

The locals here have been relatively HDTV-savvy, and fared moderately when compared to larger markets. Unfortunately, KTBC is behind the curve.

Regs.,
NS
post #588 of 6866
Thread Starter 
Hey, this is TOTALY off topic from anything else discussed here recently (sorry), but do any of you folks in Austin have a Panasonic PT-L500U Front Projector? I am in need of demoing one for a bit, and wondered if you have one, can I come over and check it out for a bit?

Thanks in advance, and back to the Fox discussion....
post #589 of 6866
I wonder if the local fox affiliate isn't getting some payment from the local cable companies to keep its power low
post #590 of 6866
Absolutely not, the low power is because corporate has decided to not invest in that part of the station infrastructure at this point.


And on a completely different topic....does anyone know where I could pick up a Samsung SIR T151 or equivalent for not much $$$$ ? I missed one on Ebay a week ago for about $100 or so and would like to pick up a tuner for not much more than that.

I haven't seen anything below $240 including remote at any of the local stores and thought that if no one has seen anything on the shelves that maybe someone has an old tuner that they'd like to part with.



Thanks! mn
post #591 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by Dr. Smaggasbldl
Having seen some the distribution centers for the other networks in the recent past I might agree. But the "more mature" networks have had to reinvest, redesign and restructure their plants to accommodate the HDTV signal.

Fox should pay for the whole thing--they and the other "minor" networks are the laggards in the group. Especially the Fox O&O's.

And, no, Fox will NOT necessarily provide the cleanest dist. signal of any of the networks. If their HDTV signal compares favorably with ATSC standards then they will simply be "on par" with the other networks, provding a nice digital signal with nice digital programming.

Not true. Did you read the article? Fox's new system uses MPEG splicing so the local stations don't have to convert the satellite signal to baseband or run it through an encoder to feed it to the transmitter. All that is done by Fox by state of the art encoders no local station could afford. The splicer and this delivery mechanism save 1-2 MPEG encode/decode cycles which greatly reduce the quality of any digital signal. No other network is using anything nearly elegant and this kind of technology implementation will allow small market Fox affiliates to pass HDTV the day after it's installed.
post #592 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by mitchrc
Not true. Did you read the article? Fox's new system uses MPEG splicing so the local stations don't have to convert the satellite signal to baseband or run it through an encoder to feed it to the transmitter. All that is done by Fox by state of the art encoders no local station could afford. The splicer and this delivery mechanism save 1-2 MPEG encode/decode cycles which greatly reduce the quality of any digital signal. No other network is using anything nearly elegant and this kind of technology implementation will allow small market Fox affiliates to pass HDTV the day after it's installed.

Once again and in a rather simplistic mode, 0's and 1's are 0's and 1's. Hope that's understood. Once the 0's and 1's have been intelligently regenerated there is no difference between Fox's 0's and 1's and ABC's, NBC's and CBS's 0's and 1's. Sorry, the laws of the universe still apply here.

Also, I would like to remind you that there are ABC, NBC and CBS O&O's in local markets, big and/or small. Fox is not the domain of small & medium market television. They're just slow.

NS
post #593 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by Dr. Smaggasbldl
Once again and in a rather simplistic mode, 0's and 1's are 0's and 1's. Hope that's understood. Once the 0's and 1's have been intelligently regenerated there is no difference between Fox's 0's and 1's and ABC's, NBC's and CBS's 0's and 1's. Sorry, the laws of the universe still apply here.

Then you clearly don't understand how MPEG works. When compressed signals are decoded and re-encoded the signal degrades.

CBS sends out a digital stream and a station converts it to baseband, adds a bug or runs it through a switcher, and then sends it to the ATSC encoder, that's three conversions and at each encoding part of the signal is thrown away. That's what happens with a lossy compression system.

Fox's system sends a transmitter ready MPEG stream and then utilizes an MPEG splicer to allow the stations to add a bug or switch. The MPEG stream goes through 0 conversions once it leaves Fox. CBS's goes through at least two. [/b][/quote]

Quote:


Originally posted by Dr. Smaggasbldl
Also, I would like to remind you that there are ABC, NBC and CBS O&O's in local markets, big and/or small. Fox is not the domain of small & medium market television. They're just slow.

NS

There are many small market stations that are not transmitting HD because of the immense cost, relative to their market size. San Angelo and Abilene to your NW are two examples. Stations in those markets have digital transmitters up and running but aren't sending HDTV. But because Fox is providing the HD hardware free to the stations by the end of their conversion a higher percentage of their stations (virtually all of them) will be transmitting HD and I guarantee you there are a lot of CBS affliates out there that won't be.

And you're right Fox was slow, but now they're going to leapfrog out ahead, at least technologically.
post #594 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by mitchrc
Then you clearly don't understand how MPEG works. When compressed signals are decoded and re-encoded the signal degrades.

CBS sends out a digital stream and a station converts it to baseband, adds a bug or runs it through a switcher, and then sends it to the ATSC encoder, that's three conversions and at each encoding part of the signal is thrown away. That's what happens with a lossy compression system.

Fox's system sends a transmitter ready MPEG stream and then utilizes an MPEG splicer to allow the stations to add a bug or switch. The MPEG stream goes through 0 conversions once it leaves Fox. CBS's goes through at least two.

There are many small market stations that are not transmitting HD because of the immense cost, relative to their market size. San Angelo and Abilene to your NW are two examples. Stations in those markets have digital transmitters up and running but aren't sending HDTV. But because Fox is providing the HD hardware free to the stations by the end of their conversion a higher percentage of their stations (virtually all of them) will be transmitting HD and I guarantee you there are a lot of CBS affliates out there that won't be.

And you're right Fox was slow, but now they're going to leapfrog out ahead, at least technologically. [/b][/quote]

1. Explain how the signal clearly degrades.

2. Do you work for CBS, or have some in with CBS that would clearly define you as expert? And baseband what?? Baseband by itself tell me nothing. Lossy system??? How does that equate to digital???

3. Despite your faulty assumption, I do know what splicers do.

4. I will applaud you if they leapfrog. But after being in this business as a technical consultant for many years I VERY, VERY seriously doubt it. The next big push by all networks and video folk will be to 1080P which, if you were there, you may have seen at the National Association of Broadcasters Convention. And 720P, pish-posh, will be left in the dust. Who cares about MPEG encoding or anything else when it comes to receiving a digital signal?? It's either good and clear with great audio or nothing at all. No one is going to notice Fox's finesse with fancy MPEG encoding!!!

Nobody cares.

NS
post #595 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by Dr. Smaggasbldl
2. Do you work for CBS, or have some in with CBS that would clearly define you as expert? And baseband what?? Baseband by itself tell me nothing. Lossy system??? How does that equate to digital???

Yes I work for CBS.


Quote:


Originally posted by Dr. Smaggasbldl
3. Despite your faulty assumption, I do know what splicers do.

4. I will applaud you if they leapfrog. But after being in this business as a technical consultant for many years I VERY, VERY seriously doubt it. The next big push by all networks and video folk will be to 1080P which, if you were there, you may have seen at the National Association of Broadcasters Convention. And 720P, pish-posh, will be left in the dust. Who cares about MPEG encoding or anything else when it comes to receiving a digital signal?? It's either good and clear with great audio or nothing at all. No one is going to notice Fox's finesse with fancy MPEG encoding!!!

Nobody cares.

NS

I have no horse in this race so I don't care if Fox leapfrogs or not, but the fact that they are giving away digital encoding equipment to every affiliate for free is going to leapfrog them ahead in terms of number of affiliates actually passing HDTV. The law requires stations to broadcast digitally. The economics prohibits them from doing HDTV. Fox has solved that by giving them the gear.

The fact that you don't seem to know that MPEG-2 is a lossy compression system and that the entire ATSC transmission standard is based on MPEG-2 reveals that you may not know what you're talking about. EVERYTHING about HDTV and ATSC involves "fancy MPEG encoding", especially with the advent of multicasting. It's those fancy MPEG encoders cost that keeps stations from doing HDTV and that's what Fox is innovating by putting the MPEG encoding at the network and using splicing at the station level.

As for 1080p, it's already very common here in Hollywood as a production format, which is why you see it shown so much at NAB, but the ATSC standard does not support it as a transmission standard and no ATSC receiver would be capable of receiving it so that is essentially a non-starter. What broadcaster would migrate to a new standard that no current HDTV tuner could use?
post #596 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by austinsho
And Bonoc, there is absolutely no way we're going to see a 720P signal off of DirecTV from KTBC anytime in the near...or forseeable...future due to bandwidth limitations. And given the POOR standard signals off of DirecTV right now, I don't think we should hold our breath for any improvements in that area.

Have you measured the signals? Do you have any hard #s? I would call the TW signals POOR. I have seen them and they dont compare to what I see on D*. Fox IS going to be carried by D* - they have already said they would. So we get ESPNHD on D* - which is produced in 720P so why is it that I can see that and it looks great!?

My point was (for those people not tuned into the "My TW Equip. Is Broken Again Thread") that D* will be carrying it just as TW is.
post #597 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by wayneb64

Now, SD is a different story. I asked it to record Actors Studio off Bravo and all at first, I never got anything in the list. Then, I got four shows a day but when you played them there was nothing there, and they where almost impossible to delete. I have since given up on SD. Is anyone seeing this
problem? How do I get the latest software installed or does it happen automagically?

That happened on mine once, and I just unplugged it for about 15min and then rebooted it. It's been working like a champ since then.

I, too, hate the 'bug' where it stops playing if it reaches the end of recording the show. What a hassel if you're only a few minutes behind the live programming!
post #598 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by bonoc
Quote:


Originally posted by austinsho
And Bonoc, there is absolutely no way we're going to see a 720P signal off of DirecTV from KTBC anytime in the near...or forseeable...future due to bandwidth limitations.

My point was (for those people not tuned into the "My TW Equip. Is Broken Again Thread") that D* will be carrying it just as TW is.

D* will carry Fox-HD in the Austin area, but unless they are starting to put HD channels on the spot beams it will be the east coast network feed, likely out of New York, which I believe was austinsho's point.

6
post #599 of 6866
Quote:


Originally posted by Number6
My point was (for those people not tuned into the "My TW Equip. Is Broken Again Thread") that D* will be carrying it just as TW is.



D* will carry Fox-HD in the Austin area, but unless they are starting to put HD channels on the spot beams it will be the east coast network feed, likely out of New York, which I believe was austinsho's point.

6
[/quote]

Here is his quote
Quote:


And Bonoc, there is absolutely no way we're going to see a 720P signal off of DirecTV from KTBC anytime in the near...or forseeable...future due to bandwidth limitations. And given the POOR standard signals off of DirecTV right now, I don't think we should hold our breath for any improvements in that area.

Sounds to me he is saying
1) D* HD signals are poor
2) wont see a 720p signal from KTBC

So what does it matter that its 720p? Is he saying D* cant do 720p? That just doesnt make sense. I could care less if its KTBC, Fox-HD from anywhere would probably make most of the people happy. My point is that he is making big statements about D* picture quality - I would like to see him back it up w/ some hard facts. And as far as bandwidth limitations, D* is putting a new satellite up in May/June to increase their bandwidth in particular to add more bandwidth to carry more locals (Fox-HD for example)
post #600 of 6866
What I was trying to say is that no 720P signal from KTBC will be on the satellite. Fox network may have one or two up there, but local HDTV can not be carried at this time due to bandwidth limitations.

A HDTV signal can use up to six times the bandwidth as one analog. DirecTV can barely support the locals it's carrying now, though the new bird will certainly help. Multiply the number of local stations by six...that's how much bandwidth DirecTV would need to carry a HDTV signal off each of them. That's why you see absolutely no desire whatsoever from either satellite carrier to get into local to local HDTV.

And yes, I slapped DirecTV pretty hard there for good reason...there are too many locals up there right now. On my monitor here, I can compare network signals from Dish, DirecTV and ExpressVu. On national beams, the ExpressVu signals win every single time. As far as Austin locals are concerned, it varies from one day to the next, but both US providers are still pathetic.

My background...I began work in Austin TV back in 1976, then spent six years in TV production in south Texas, then returned to work for the state here in Austin, producing video for various state agencies. Today, I'm in charge of video for the Texas Senate. And if I may say so, 28 years staring at TV monitors has given me an appreciation of what makes a good NTSC picture...and today neither domestic DBS carrier is doing justice to what the actual off-air signals here in Austin actually look like.

So...if you want digital off of KTBC, you'll have to either 1) have Time Warner or 2) live within spitting distance of that old, old, stick they've got...that won't be replaced anytime soon.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Local HDTV Info and Reception
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › Austin, TX - HDTV