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LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion - Page 239

post #7141 of 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

Joecass: Way back earlier in this thread... I posted about capacitor upgrades in the power supply.... I've done that to maybe 15 of these units, and have never had a power supply issue since... Replaced caps, and added a jumper wire across a diode to transformer connection that often suffers from poor wave soldering...
Somewhere else in the thread I posted about a Fix for intermittent, or continuous "HELLO" issues... It's a power fail reset cap.... that when it dry's out, causes random "HELLO" Reboots...
Wife is still using 4 of them here. 3 on daily basis... one is only used on "Overflow" Days.... smile.gif

I do remember reading about your upgrades and such..... I'm incapable of perfoming such feats of electronic wizardry. In the last two weeks, I've tried everything I could think of to solve
these problems, to no avail. I even bought a Maxtor Quick View 250gb IDE drive to replace the original Seagate. Didn't help. Any suggestions ?
post #7142 of 7201
Jan,
I assume from the photo that you now have your Indian !! I was just checking in on the demise of TVGOS which looks like a done deal.
And to think 6 - 8 months ago I was thinking about sending you my 3410 to use for parts or recording. And keep my Sony DHG. So now I'll keep the LG and recycle the Sony.
BTW the LG you repaired still works great but I haven't plugged it in for awhile. And I've blown the dust out a few more times.
In my case and my area (DC) having the TVGOS still connected internally seems to cause no problem at all.
Fred
post #7143 of 7201
There was a whole slew of Sony DHG's for sale on EBay the other day. I'd rather keep both my LST 3410A and Sony DHG. When TV Guide finally bites the dust, I will experiment using a DTV converter box to see if it can send a clock
signal to the Sony. In the meantime, my LG refuses to work at all, now it says it can't find a clock signal, and won't stay on long enough to set the proper time and date. Very frustrating.
post #7144 of 7201
At this point, you should be ignoring/bypassing the TVGOS and setting everything (including clock) manually. I don't quite understand if the unit is shutting itself off, but if you can select a KNOWN invalid TVGOS channel (and leave it), you'll just get a permanent "guide" light on the front panel with no harm done.
post #7145 of 7201
The Software in TVG in 3410a will perpetually hunt for a TVG channel... if it doesn't think it has found a TVG Channel.
If it finds a TVG Channel (Say from CBS off Cable if analog cable is still being provided) it can lock up the 3410a in ~3 days, forcing a power cycle to clear it.

Last post was correct that manual setting and clock will be needed if no TVG channel is found... Set your recordings manually and all will be fine.... I believe the lockup is because the amount of data being sent exceeds the memory on the TVG board.... so it locks up.

I found one cap, that removed any decoded video from going to TVG board, and I've had great success with that.

If you get no analog old fashioned TV channels, you should be ok, though I've seen it still lockup TVG occasionally...
post #7146 of 7201
Based on everything I've read here, I'm going to assume the power supply board is at fault. If anyone has a spare working board, or knows where to get one, I'd appreciate some
help. My LST-3410A worked faithfully for over three years, nothing has changed in my system to account for what's happened to it. I don't think it's a TV Guide issue. Before it stopped working, it would seem to record a Timer event, but upon playback, only one minute was recorded. From there it went into the continuous re-boot loop, and finally just the "Hello" screen.
I low-level formatted several IDE hard drives and installed them, but the same sequence of symptoms occurred over and over again.
post #7147 of 7201
I used to have a spare chassis to test supplies on, but that was given to another user who needed it, over a year ago.... so I no longer have a chassis to test supplies on, sorry.

If you take power on voltage measurements to .01 volt on each pin of both DC connectors, I'll tell you if they are correct or not. If you have a TV repairman in the area, they should be able to change caps for you....
post #7148 of 7201
Thanks for your input, however I have no idea how to perform tests on the power supply board. It might be possible to find a replacement board on line, I'll have to do some serious research. In my area, the "TV repairman" stores are long gone. I've considered buying another 3410A on EBay, but, given the age of these units, I would guess the same problems wll
happen.
post #7149 of 7201
Well then, let me give you another option....

If you send me your 3410a, with return postage and $25 to cover the cost of caps, I will rebuild the 3410a with the changes I've added to my units.

Optionally, If you want, I will remove the TVG cap, and replace the Power Up delay cap (Which results in random "Hello" resets.

I have not been reading all your posts regarding the symptoms you have, so you might consider re-posting the symptoms again...

Obviously, if there is an intermittent somewhere else on the system, and not a power supply issue, this action would not be worthwhile.


My schedule for next month is rather full, so I'd suggest waiting until February....

If you want, I can work up a post what would be replaced and with what cap values, if you can find someone to do this locally....

Something to think about.....
post #7150 of 7201
Hi Jan,

You might remember that I was having random trouble with one of my (3) 3410's. Now, that machine will not record when the timers tell it to. The amber light comes on but it does not record. If I manually try to record, it records perfectly. Any suggestion? I use this machine to record NBC OTA. The other 2 record ABC and CBS. I have a legal recording Cable box on which I record the non premium digital channels and I have another identical box I use to record the premium channels. I miss my LG because of its superior PQ.

Merry Christmas to you Jan and to all the lucky elves out there who have been fortunate enough to have enjoyed a 3410 to for almost a decade.
post #7151 of 7201
Thanks for your response ! sounds like a plan...... I bought this unit used on Ebay several years ago, it worked fine even with the TV Guide issues in that I had to unplug it every three days.
After about two years, I decided to replace the original Seagate IDE drive with a Western Digital SATA using an adapter. This configuration worked well for about a year. The LG was functioning all summer long under less than ideal conditions, 90 degree plus temperatures in my apartment. When summer ended, it started missing timers, in that the display showed it
was recording, but as I've explaiined before, only one minute was actually recorded. I then removed the SATA drive, reformatted the orignal Seagate and reinstalled it. That seemed to
temporarily solve the problems of shortened recordings and re-booting loops. After a few weeks of normal operation, it returned to non-recording again, and eventually got to the point of
not staying on long enough to set the time and date. I thought this to be once again a hard drive issue, but I guess I was wrong.

I will gladly send you the unit and fees for repair and shipping, you can do whatever is necessary to restore it to normal operation. February sounds good to me, I'll PM you then, thanks
very much for your help.
post #7152 of 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

If you want, I can work up a post what would be replaced and with what cap values, if you can find someone to do this locally...
Yes, please do this for all of us. It is information that should not be lost. I have a printout of your post #5611 along with the PS schematic and board layout from the service manual, but you may have made some additions since then (02/09/2009).
post #7153 of 7201
Here is the list of things I have done to my units... and some symptoms I've seen. Be aware that there are many ways a unit can fail that these changes may not fix....


power supply changes: (Bad power supply can cause random resets and incorrect operation)

Put wire between Pin 18 of transformer and Anode of D128 (This already exists.... You are putting a short across a possible Poor wave solder connection done at factory... Symptom: No or intermittent panel display)
(Use ONLY 105 degree Switching mode caps.. DO NOT USE Cheapie 85 Degree caps)
Replace following caps:
C125- change to 3300/16V It will just barely fit in place of cap it replaces....
C126, C127, C122, C124, C128, C129, C133: Replace with good unit of identical value
Check C107, C108, C111, C121, C134, C135, C156, C155, Replace if necessary

Checkout of power supply:
Check +12V, +9V, +5V +3.8V
Check to make certain FD+=~-20.68V FD-=~-24.74V, -28VA=~-28.81V (This is actual working unit measurements... The important part is the approximate voltages are about the same as I've indicated, No two should be identical (That is a symptom of a component failure)! If these three voltages are not correct, you will get NO PANEL DISPLAY)

If you get a "Hello" and you hear the drive spin up, control panel display, and you get a channel & picture/sound, you should be OK.

Other things I've seen.... information to consider:

If you have random "Hello" boot-ups you didn't ask for..... I have seen C129 (10uf/16V surface mount cap) on motherboard be dried out... I've had this happen on two of my units. I replaced with a good non-surface mount cap and fixed that problem. C129 is by IC102, a 3 pin IC.

Audio Output Problems I've seen:
Missing Audio Output on one channel only Fixed Right is C706, Fixed Left is C707. Variable Right is C313, Variable Left is C314 (Symptom: scratchy, intermittent sound on bad channel only).

The famous TVG Cap..... C493, by tuner
(Removal of this cap from circuit guarantees that no data of any kind will get to TVG board. With no data getting to the TVG board, the TVG CPU cannot overload)... Guide light on display panel will be forever on with this cap removed).

Just remember: You do this on your own...... And there are Many, Many other failures that can occur that have nothing to do with these changes....
Edited by Jan J - 12/28/12 at 9:31am
post #7154 of 7201
Not sure this is authorized here but...I have a 3410A I haven't used since my local PBS secured its analog transmitters and I lost the automatic time hack and TV guide. I'd sell it for any reasonable (even unreasonable smile.gif) offer plus shipping. Remote and manual included of course. Everything was working great last time I used it. PM me if interested.
post #7155 of 7201
I just picked up what are supposedly 2 brand new 3410's from Las Vegas which have been sitting in a warehouse all these years after a hotel/motel remodelling was aborted.
The seller sent me images and low and behold the shipper states 9 / 29 / 2004!

These are for development purposes connected to my Mac Pro. It will be interesting if this unit implements a tuner or disc subunit.
Should arrive by the end of the week. Will post pics after they arrive.
post #7156 of 7201
I have been working on a Tuner Subunit Controller class which can control the tuner subunit and stream from the tuner the MPEG2TS packets all implemented on top of Apple's Firewire SDK AVCVideoServices framework.
post #7157 of 7201
Has anyone here actually upgraded the firmware themselves?
It looks like the program and programming cable is readily avaliable, but what about the firmware files?

The service manual shows the procedure but its kinda wierd how you need 2 cables for the CPLD update?
post #7158 of 7201
Yes.. You can update the firmware. I have seen it work from any version from V1.12 up to V1.15. (I've never seen an earlier version than V1.12).
You will not be able to do the Programmed Arrays (CPLD).
Edited by Jan J - 2/15/13 at 7:06am
post #7159 of 7201
Both new in box units arrived the 18'th and i opened them up and unboxed them this past weekend.
post #7160 of 7201
1.15 or 1.17????
post #7161 of 7201
The LG LST-3410A has got to be the 'last laugh' DVR!

This first (actually second) LG/Zenith model is the only DVR made (that I know of) that formats its own HDD and works fine as a hi-def tuner if used w/o a HDD.

I recently bought a couple of 3410's and unfortunately the larger than standard HDD in the more expensive one failed. I swapped out the drive from the 3410 I've had for some time into the newer 3410 and the recently purchased one is now working (almost*) uneventfully.

The one I've had the longest always had a 'reserved light' problem (which, as Jan often reports about, may be caused by one of its capacitors going bad) but as a tuner w/o HDD it now works (almost*) fine.

The 'guide light' always remains on on the other 3410 I bought recently, so the previous owner may have already clipped the appropriate cap, but that one also works (almost*) uneventfully.

*Comcast uses an unusual virtual channel lineup which a 3410's tuner can't recognize, so a few channels won't stay tuned for more than an hour but that's a minor hassle at worst!
Edited by fallingwater - 3/4/13 at 6:35pm
post #7162 of 7201
Remember.... "Spring Ahead" Tonight!
post #7163 of 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post


*Comcast uses an unusual virtual channel lineup which a 3410's tuner can't recognize, so a few channels won't stay tuned for more than an hour but that's a minor hassle at worst!

Bummer; seems like the 3410a is working 'real hard' to change subchannels when tuned to a channel in the Comcast lineup in this area and has rapidly turned into a real POS. Too bad!
post #7164 of 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

Well then, let me give you another option....

If you send me your 3410a, with return postage and $25 to cover the cost of caps, I will rebuild the 3410a with the changes I've added to my units.

Optionally, If you want, I will remove the TVG cap, and replace the Power Up delay cap (Which results in random "Hello" resets.

I have not been reading all your posts regarding the symptoms you have, so you might consider re-posting the symptoms again...

Obviously, if there is an intermittent somewhere else on the system, and not a power supply issue, this action would not be worthwhile.


My schedule for next month is rather full, so I'd suggest waiting until February....

If you want, I can work up a post what would be replaced and with what cap values, if you can find someone to do this locally....

Something to think about.....


Hi Jan

Quick question.... would I have to send you the entire unit, or just the power supply board ?
post #7165 of 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

... the 3410a is working 'real hard' to change subchannels when tuned to a channel in the Comcast lineup in this area and has rapidly turned into a real POS. Too bad!

Anybody have an idea on exactly what causes a 3410a (and, I suspect, any of the non-DVR LG tuners, such as a 4200a) to frequently lose the subchannel they're tuned to and either tune to another subchannel or just fade in and out repeatedly while still displaying the same subchannel number?

Tuning up or down will bring the picture back, but something in the signal, usually on the hour, causes an LG tuner to become unlocked from the subchannel it's tuned to. Not all subchannels, but too many not to be an ongoing hassle. Otherwise, the 3410a would be a first rate back-up recorder!
post #7166 of 7201
I have heard that 3100's will lock up on some subchannels. 4100's will lose lock in tuner, and audio squeals like a pig, 4200's seem ok, and never had any of this on the 3410a's I have, but I'm running V1.17 on all of them.
post #7167 of 7201
I've got one 3410a running V1.17. (The other two, including one with no HDD, are V1.15. The one I use most has a HDD and is V1.15 .

I'll keep an eye on the V1.17 machine to see if it doesn't lose lock and, if that's the case, swap it with the V1.15 machine. Is it possible (or practical) to upgrade a machine from V1.15 to V1.17 now?

It would be a hassle but I've got a couple stashed 4200s I could also dig out and test.
post #7168 of 7201
I recently picked up an LST3410A, connected it and used it briefly for ATSC OTA with an antenna on the roof. I had been using an unsubscribed TiVoHD with that display and thought maybe manual recordings would be better than only having 30 minute buffer on two tuners and no recording. The 3410A worked surprisingly well, I didn't use it long enough to determine if the tuner is equal to or better than the TiVo tuners but I can say it picked up all channels with good signal strength. Recording is more trouble than I want to mess with so I didn't keep it connected and will go back to two displays with lifetime TiVos and that one display with an unsubscribed TiVo.

Overall, I think this was a nice effort by LG and wish market results could have justified further development and improvements.
post #7169 of 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Anybody have an idea on exactly what causes a 3410a (and, I suspect, any of the non-DVR LG tuners, such as a 4200a) to frequently lose the subchannel they're tuned to and either tune to another subchannel or just fade in and out repeatedly while still displaying the same subchannel number?

Tuning up or down will bring the picture back, but something in the signal, usually on the hour, causes an LG tuner to become unlocked from the subchannel it's tuned to. Not all subchannels, but too many not to be an ongoing hassle. Otherwise, the 3410a would be a first rate back-up recorder!

I had similar problems with both the LST-3410a and LST-3510a HD tuner. I would have the 3510a tuned to a standard QAM Fox channel, and after a while the signal would drift, instead of
being tuned to Fox, it was on a Spanish subchannel. Couldn't figure out why, until I read about cable co.'s "Switched Digital Video" signal, and, not coincidentally, poor signal strength.
On the 3410a, I would set the timer for NBC QAM cable, but at recording time, the machine tuned to a non-existent OTA channel with the same number. Think it had something to do
with the channel lineup screen. It's confusing when there's no actual TV Guide channel lineup to adjust, and there's a QAM 60.1 and an OTA 60.1.
Maybe re-doing a complete channel scan will help.
post #7170 of 7201
I've got a working LST-3410a that I no longer need, along with the original remote and a replacement motherboard. A few years ago I thought I had a problem with the tuner but it was actually the antenna line.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone would like to make a modest offer for it. At last usage (yesterday!) it was working fine, although in my cable area it no longer gets the channel lineup or sets the correct time. Those functions have been dead since the digital signal change.

If you're interested, just post a reply and we'll talk.
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