or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Screens › DIY Screen Section › CRMA/MM Superplex Formula
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CRMA/MM Superplex Formula - Page 56

post #1651 of 2678
CMRA... I bailed out my Canuck shootout stuff from your thread... Started my own... so you don't have Shootout stuff on your thread from me anyway.. Will pull out the balance of the rest later... I have been trying to get some info on these threads on the technical aspects of how the mirrors you are recommending scatters light... I cant find it I know its must be here somewhere... ... .. if you have any info how the coating works with the mirror ... trying to find it I noted that some are using different types of mirrors.. Does the coating you are recommending work with any mirror?
I am a bit confused from what I read so far..

Anyway I just want to make sure since it did well that I give credit where credit is due.. Like I stated before I thought this was all MM... You PM'd me that it was all your ideas and MM just made the screen. but not with your mix..or a variation of your mix.. I had already given MM his due for coming down and doing this the first post I made back from the shootout.. ... I just want to make sure I get it right... so in the interest of brevity

1) who had the idea of using the first surface mirror.. Where did it come from?

2) has the first surface mirror been the only type used.?
3) is it the only one you recommend
4) how does the light get scattered with a first surface mirror?
5) If other types of mirrors are used how do they scatter the light?

Appreciate it..

Sorry for posting the shootout stuff here ...its your thread. I will delete it all .. we just got started with all the pms you sent.. advising it was your discovery.. I personally am not a fan of the coating on the mirror .. You stated that the first surface mirror was available in 16*10 sheets in a PM and I cant seem to find that anywhere.. I have a large commercial application and want to try it out with some goo CRT White or Digital Grey Lite with a monster screen.. about that same size. Actually two large commercial applications..

thanks in advance.

Robert
post #1652 of 2678
Wow!, that sure does not sound like the Scoob that I'm familiar with, in my opinion he is a fine, personable, and outstanding gentleman, and great asset to this community. Unless he had a night on the town with MM, and had to many Fosters I think I speak for the majority of members that have interacted with Mr. Seacrest , that he is the exact opposite of the person you describe. He goes out of his way to help us via PM's, and no that does not stand for Pre-Menstral....whatever, he is here to help grow the theory and science behind DIY living. Again, this is my opinion, so I don't need any constructive criticism that is sarcasm We all have a right to our opinion, unless of course we do not live in a free society. Anyway, it takes two to tango, and I don't have time to figure out this soap opera. Maybe Scoob had a bad night at candle pin bowling leaque , bet most of you all don't know what that is, well if you ever travel out East, at least in the Boston area, it is well known.

Good night everyone.....and peace out.
post #1653 of 2678
Sirquack
i have never stated that he is not a decent guy he sounds like he probably is !! just because two people disagree there is no reason to get personal !! if you want i could show you all our pm's and unless someone has stolen his name he wrote them !! i am going to get to the bottom of it by tomorrow and resolve this hopefully as i do not have hard feelings and i hope he doesn't .

mandarax
thanks for the shoot out i enjoyed it and i was just as curious on the projector end of the info as i am with the screen info!! i am shortly buying a projector for my son's games , and i am not too familiar with all the digitals, I am glad that even so early after the show you are considering having anther one as it sounded like a lot of work !!


As for your shootout results on screens posted here!! i think it was appropiate !! we had what some people here! and myself included thought was a fair evaluation of your event , during what i guess you could call a halftime show !!!

here is what we heard halfway through the event posted in........ "Mississippi's own name "

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...70#post3681870

Bruce
post #1654 of 2678
You asked:
"1) who had the idea of using the first surface mirror.. Where did it come from?

2) has the first surface mirror been the only type used.?
3) is it the only one you recommend
4) how does the light get scattered with a first surface mirror?
5) If other types of mirrors are used how do they scatter the light? "

I'll do my best to answer.

First surface is the NEXT effort in the continuing progress of light fusion. To the best of my knowledge no one has attempted it as of yet. If they have they have yet to post in AVS 'screens'. The two members who have announced intentions to try first surface are MM and Bruce Can. Since MM has some in his possession I suspect we will hear from him first.

To date, only mirrors, silver painted plexiglas, and acrylic mirrors have been routinely tested for light fusion. Aluminum foil, gift wrap paper and the like have been suggested.

Not at all. It all started with a piece of plexiglas with one side can spray painted with Rustoleum 'silver metallic' paint.

Don't know yet or even if it will. It should have some impact especially if the topcoat is translucent enough.

See response #3. All work on the principle that most of the light is reflected back to the viewer off the topcoat while a lesser percent travels through the glass and bounces back off the silver backcoat thus reinforcing the image.
post #1655 of 2678
Someone awhile back had the idea of painting both sides of a clear peice of glass to see how much (best case since there would be no mirror losses) light would pass throught two layers of MM. Seem like a fair way to seperate the amount of gain gotten from the mirror verses the light that reflects off the top coat. Can anyone think of how to put this into a real test? Then we should know the maximum amount of benifit we can expect.
post #1656 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by mandarax

1) who had the idea of using the first surface mirror.. Where did it come from?
2) has the first surface mirror been the only type used.?
3) is it the only one you recommend
4) how does the light get scattered with a first surface mirror?
5) If other types of mirrors are used how do they scatter the light?

Rob, here is how Light Fusion Came to be:

It all started in the "Misty Evening + Silver one-coat solution" thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=320794

Around Nov 20/21 CMRA came up with paint on clear Plexi (Super Deluxe)
Around Dec 15 CMRA adds MM's Mississippi Mud instead of paint to the plexi (Super Deluxe with MMud)
Around Dec 15 MM comes up with MMud over Silver Metallic Paint on a wall (Silver Metallic with MMud)
Around Dec 22 CMRA and MM come up with a Mirror and MMud (Light Fusion).

I actually find the whole chain of events leading to mirrors to be quite funny, considering some of the remarks MM made leading up to their use.

When plexi was first being used and played with, a fellow mentioned he had thrown out some old mirrors. CMRA responded that mirrors had not been used yet so no one knew how they would work.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...72#post2965572

A short while later, another person asks how well would his old plexi mirrors would work with GOO. MM responds that mirrors are too heavy/expensive and difficult to work with. MM recommends to stick with plexi.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...84#post3058884

Soon after, some one asks about an old plexi mirror he has and how well it would work. MM responds that a mirror would bend light and transpose the image. The only mirror that might work would be a First Surface Mirror. A regular mirror would not fit. Near the end of the post MM says not to bother with a mirror as you will only get mediocre results at best.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...54#post3064354


A few posts later MM goes into a description of what a First Surface Mirror is, and the posts an add for any fools who would like to buy a first surface mirror from his old RPTV (he was joking).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...51#post3064951

I don't remember much more after that until around the beginning of March when I mention that First Surface Mirrors would most likely give a better picture.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...27#post3475027

After that, MM finds out that he can have a First Surface Mirror made by GE Polymers and then it became a race to see if he could get one shipped to your place in time for the Shoot Out. Obviously it did not pan out and he had to use a normal mirror.

We are still waiting to hear back on what a First Surface Mirror would look like. I have a strong suspicion that the SDE is increased with it.

Darren
post #1657 of 2678
Excellent synopsis Darren.
post #1658 of 2678
A very nice synopsis.

However, permit me to interject some additional info.

On 12-22 I made this post. It confirms not only my curiosity but commitment to give mirrors a go. Others had mentioned mirrors but nobody actually did one.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...03#post3091103

Not long afterwards I intoduced the first mirrored solution complete with a comparison screenshot.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...74#post3095774

Hope this helps. BTW, it didn't take long for others to come around. Even though MM fought it at first he soon became it's #1 supporter.
post #1659 of 2678
darin,

You missed the silver metallic / MM debut by over a month, for I first used SM & MMud in New Jersey back on 11-10, and posted a long post to describe the application. That was followed up by this picture. somewhat later. (left my Camera in NJ and didn't get it until the 21st.

CMRA used his own "Silver" spray from a can about the time I posted the shot, but almost two weeks after I posted the instructions after having worked with the SM & Goo.

At the time, I felt Goo was a pain, and too expensive to consider it for a 14' screen should there be a proplem. MMud was born on or about 11-16 between then and approx the last week in december, CMRA traded SS fullisades and it was that spur that prompted him to up the ante since ME just wasn't cutting it any longer. Only those like Rob, who make statements without researching the facts would ever accuse me of hoarding credit for all that is Light fusion. Have I done more LF screens than anybody?
Yes.
Have I tried to help others go there?
Yes.
I promised that I wouldn't ever post a Link or banner ad on AVS to sell LF, that is would remain forever a free formula. I DID NOT promise to refuse private requests by AVS'er who wanted me to do up a screen for them, or foreswear a vow of poverty to produce them one for free. twist it around all you want to, you robs, bruces, and darin2ps, everyone who 'matters' knows better, and the ones who cannot make thenselves one are grateful.

And for the record, I told Rob that $1000.00 was the value I put on my donation. $400.00 airfare. $300.00 car. 300.00 materials. = $1000.00

Any of you I've answered PMs about making you a screen for only $500.00, speak up if you will and set these guys straight. All of the 20 some PM'ers that have received free advice since this last Monday, let 'em know I'm not in your pockets.

It really doesn't matter though, except to Rob, who seems to want to disinfrancise my involvement by his comment to CMRA. Constantly making comments like "I thought it was all MM's idea," and directing all your question to CMRA, who wasn't there, and depended on me to carry the ball for both of us. Rob, you try to infer that I take all the credit for Light Fusion. I have never done so, and many time have pointed to CMRA, Scoob5555, even KBK and Tryg as influences, helpmates, and partners. But I do claim the distinction of being the biggest advocate, the most prolific creator of LFSs, and the one directly responsible for making it float beyond the little shop of horrors down in CMRA's basement. Does anybody dissagree with my statement that if not for me and my intense involvement in THE REAL WORLD , it probably would have floundered under all the adverse comments and attacks it received due to CMRA's splendid first SSs?

I had a lot more to say here, especially after some remarks recently related to me. but all in all, iIve decided it's just doesn't matter. Most of it is of a very personal nature, and some very much a "Knee jerk' reaction, so I pulled it off. For those who might have caught it this early in the AM, I apologize for the rant.
LL
post #1660 of 2678
Sorry, bruce, I'm just not interested in continuing this futile exchange.

Let's see some Black Pearl!
post #1661 of 2678
REALLY SCOOB!!!! YOU JUST EMAILED ME AGAIN THIS MORNING !!!!!!!


i just told this morning you in my reply that now i would keep anything said in pm private as before i just considered them spam or hate mail !! but if you wanted a conversation or to settle disputes fine . "" two sided conversations are private "" this is pretty childish . and i really do not have anything to prove so if you want to prove something and here is the only place to talk fine !! i do not get personally worked up over the he said she said BS .
just facts and some fun is all that should transpire here!! if you are so objective show it !! i asked you questions as well now via pm!! last night i gave you some options to continue silly stupid conversations either private or on our own thread for open arguement or debates it might be fun let's go !! you have an advanced chemistry degree and i am unarmed !! so to be fair you will not be able to recite pie to the fifteenth power!! or make me memorize the entire periodic table, let's create our own thread !!!! but do not pm me again unless you want to talk !!!or I might have to see how much of a little high i get by putting someone on ignore .

Bruce out


Bruce
post #1662 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by scoob5555
Sorry, bruce, I'm just not interested in continuing this futile exchange.

Let's see some Black Pearl!

BP has come and gone, in two different hues. A miserable bust. 2 First Surface 10" x 10" samples, both sides painted to compare the difference between FS and standard Plexi Mirror. Pearlesence in any quanity beyond 1/3 creates a sheen that in itself creates an adverse, smeary image, and the addition of Lamp Black only makes it a shiny image with a darker shine that washes over everything following every movement on the screen.

Some of this may be related to the use of it on a mirror. The same and a weaker WO mix on a Board would be nothing that hasn't already been tried before in the guise of WO & SilverStag, so I'm not going to bother with rehashing that dog. . Other's successes when using Kilz as an initial primer coating means I'm going to try LB & Kilz only on a smaller 2' x 3' mirror that I've held back, having bought it at HD in Jan. and not having to bother with it because my first experiment with LF wound up being a 9' x 5' full size project. That won't take long.

That's where the Curse of The Black Pearl stands at present.

Other's results may differ. If anyone cares to try. I've got the whole mess on hand so it will happen in another format soon either way.
post #1663 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
darin,

You missed the silver metallic / MM debut by over a month, for I first used SM & MMud in New Jersey back on 11-10, and posted a long post to describe the application. That was followed up by this picture. somewhat later. (left my Camera in NJ and didn't get it until the 21st.

I stand corrected MM. I went back and took a look and you do mention using a light paint over a silver back ground back on Nov 10. You never used the SM/MM acronym at the time, so that must be how I missed it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...68#post2904168

As for your claim about the pricing of a Light Fusion Mirror, I agree with your $500'ish price. When I first started reading the threads, I PM'd you some questions regarding the whole thing and some how you ended up telling me that you could make one for around $400 (back in early January). I said thanks, but I'd like to experiment with it myself but would have to wait for the snow to melt. I still needed a projector at that point as well.

You are for sure one of the biggest supporters of Light Fusion and have never taking claim to being the creator of it. That has always been shared between you and CMRA with a little help from Scoob. Even through the beginning when you shot down some suggestions of using a mirror, you were quick to change direction and praise the people (CMRA) who tried it any ways. In the end, you do support the best solution and encourage everyone to do it themselves and experiment.

I have found that your always willing to help everyone with any questions, and are always pushing for people to do things themselves, but I find you do have the habit of persuading people away from trying something different. What I mean is that you will tell people to get off their butts and try something, but when they ask about something different, such as using a mirror when Plexi was the hot topic, you would give them a comment about the mirror is not going to work as well, and that the future lies with plexi. Granted, quite a few people are looking for the answer right away and won't take the time to experiment. In these cases, your hand leading was helpful to them.

CMRA has always been very proactive when people have asked about different methods. His responses have always been "Try it, and get back to us with how well it works". I don't think I've ever read a comment from him saying not to try something.

In either situation, you have always asked everyone to do it themselves and if they came back asking for more due to a lack of skill or ability or desire, then you've supplied your costs. I've never seen/heard of you quoting up front that you can do it for them.

I do wish you did have more support for some of your claims you've made. A long time ago I asked about the science behind the screen. I made some suggestions and you promptly exploded on me (granted, I did say you were wrong, which was a bit harsh). Now Bruce and a few others have questioned your statements. Why do we ask? Well, if we have an idea of how it works, then we can improve on it by furthering that knowledge. If no one knows, them improving the concept becomes much more difficult. If you don't know, just say so. If you do know, support it with facts. Working together as a large group should result in quite a bit collective thinking, allowing us to come up with an answer. Working alone won't nearly be as effective. Quoting info that hasn't been proven, but is being presented as the answer is not the way to further this giant experiment called Light Fusion.

In the end we all want a better DYI product. In order to get there, we have to stop squabbling at each other and work together.

Darren
post #1664 of 2678
MM posted:
"But I do claim the distinction of being the biggest advocate, the most prolific creator of LFSs, and the one directly responsible for making it float beyond the little shop of horrors down in CMRA's basement. "

Before we go any further, I wish to acknowledge the validity of this statement. No one on this planet has made the effort to promote the 'light fusion' project more than MM. And, unless there is some clever person out there fabing screens and not reporting it, MM remains the undisputed champion when quantity becomes an issue. He has literally spray painted LFS in Hawaii, New Jersey, Tennessee, Mississippi, Canada, and most likely elsewhere.

Here's the LFS time line as chronicled on AVS:

9-06-03 CMRA intros 'ME' to AVS
11-02-03 Scoob5555 intros 'ME + silver.' I'm posting this link because the LFS history is recorded here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...01#post2872501
Scoob is also the major inspiration behind 'Super Deluxe'
11-20-03 CMRA intros 'Deluxe'
11-20-03 CMRA intros 'Super Deluxe' post #267
11-20-03 CMRA intros plexiglas substrate post #279
11-21-03 CMRA posts 'original' SD formulation post #299
11-22-03 CMRA post 'supplies' photo post#319
11-22-03 CMRA challenges MM post #320
11-23-03 CMRA warns about 'halos' post #321
11-23-03 CMRA post 'Deluxe' family photo post #326
11-25-03 CMRA salvos 4 challenge screen shots to MM post #345
12-04-03 CMRA intros his 'Silver' solution with SS, docs on other threads post#376
12-14-14 East meets West in San Diego post #410

This is merely a quick overview. I encourage all members to read scoob's thread to learn the complete history and involvement of all the members associated with the LFS project.
post #1665 of 2678
Darren posts:
"Working together as a large group should result in quite a bit collective thinking, allowing us to come up with an answer. Working alone won't nearly be as effective. "

That's been the plan all along. Thanks for sharing.
post #1666 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA

I encourage all members to read scoob's thread to learn the complete history and involvement of all the members associated with the LFS project.

A great suggestion, and wise counsel. And if that does happen, you'll probably be swatting Porcine Butterflies.
post #1667 of 2678
MM,
I know your'e brewing up first surface as I write. Let's see how it fairs against a little SD/MM? Remember Darla?

Let's just see what first surface has over a LFS. (If anything)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...995&fullpage=1
post #1668 of 2678
Just up from below prepping the prototype of the FSMLF Photon Deffusion Image Receiver

***aaaaaaaaakkkkkkkk !!!**************

Little Pink Men in Bubble hats are swarming in my windows!

OK, Ok....., so It's really an Physlogical Inter-Demensional Anti-Reality Conduit Facillatator, and you guys thought of it first. Don't point that thing at me. Who knew?

There they all go with it. Man, can that Saucer scoot.




More serious, I cut my hand on this Mirror! It came with a shattered edge and the points of one area turned out to be as sharp as any glass. 3"L x 1/8"D

I'm typing with one hand.

Always one to have good news waiting, it was my left hand, and that won't stop me at all. Stay Tuned
post #1669 of 2678
Well, you still got one good hand left. While your'e at it, here's another 'Nemo' challange:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...980&fullpage=1

Yeah, we are a little ruthless here in the 'screens' forum. But, see, I'm a nice guy. You won't even have to change the disc.
post #1670 of 2678
As followers of this thread know I/we keep experimenting with the 'light fusion' concept. While MM wrestles with first surface I'm following up on some experimentation I was doing prior to going 'mirror'. I got hung up there after enjoying such pleasing results. But, alas, there's always better.

Currently, I'm working with a 'new' twist on an older idea. I'm testing with this light scattering material in lieu of the mirror. (see photo) The idea is not only to difuse the reflected light but to scatter it as well (in all directions). I suspect it will have issues but seeing is the only way I know to validate it. The worst part is I can't Fab this up for song.
LL
post #1671 of 2678
This photo illustrates the same material partially behind a piece of plexiglas. It will be used in lieu of the silver metallic paint used on the original Super Deluxe. Obviously, it will have much more light reflecting properties than SM, perhaps as much as the mirror, (maybe more?) but the diffused light will scatter hugely.

Problems? I'll know when I get there.
LL
post #1672 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA
Currently, I'm working with a 'new' twist on an older idea. I'm testing with this light scattering material in lieu of the mirror. (see photo) The idea is not only to difuse the reflected light but to scatter it as well (in all directions).

I think you are already getting some scatter even with the mirror. I think this is the reason for your SDE reduction. Even though the mirror will reflect things straight back, when the light goes through the paint I'm guessing that it is getting scattered fairly well. One test would be to paint it on glass and if you look behind, can you see a reasonably uniform image? I would say that depends quite a bit on how much paint you put on, so with a small amount of paint this new scattering material might do a better job.

With a very thin paint on the mirror I would say that the light shining straight on from the projector and perpendicular to the mirror may not have as much scattering effect with the mirror as light out toward the side where it can go through the paint and hit the mirror at an angle, back to the paint at an angle with some going through and some continuing the trip back to the mirror, but every time it hits the paint it gets scattered. When I was going to test the SDE reduction here is what I would have done. I would have hooked a PC up to the projector and then brought up Microsoft Paint and made the background black. Then I would have put a single green pixel in the center of the screen and one 3/4ths of the way or so toward the edge on each side of the screen. I would have then looked at the screen from very close to see if there was any flaring out of these pixels and if there was, whether it differed between pixels in the center and pixels toward the edges.

I am planning on measuring my Carada BW material later today to see what the ratio of the brightness from the front to the brightness from behind will be. I think that will give a good idea of how much light is lost in the transmission through that could be recaptured.

--Darin
post #1673 of 2678
So now I am still confused... I am just trying to get finalizing what it was people saw..

Maybe I am thick... was it a first surface mirror that was at the event or just what was it... ?? Who's coating .. and revised by what measures.. and by how much...

I labelled the product Mississippi Mans Light Fusion at the event.. Thanked him for coming up here to show it on the first thread back..

I don't want all the goofy stuff ... just trying to chronicle what it was accurately.. I didn't know CMRA existed in this effort as clearly I labelled the product Mississippi Mans Lite Fusion at the event.. Since it is an offering people may wish to try. An arrow was pointed in my first post thread about the shootout by CMRA to this one ... regarding the lite fusion.. I don't have time to go through the history ... just what was at the event without reading reams of stuff and not knowing what it is.. Out of respect for CMRA I am still trying to find out really just what it is ..... People understand if I say it a DaLite Cinema Vision High Contrast ... ka boom instant recognition ... but may not fully understand what this is..

The further derogatory remarks on my companies character and integrity will be dealt with outside these public forums.. unless members would be served to be advised or warned.. in that case it will be on a seperate thread..

But in any event ... can you guys just agree on what it is.. and give me a short.. brief so I dont misquote it.. In the interest of brevity..

I already thanked MM for coming..on the forum.. I know it was him that arrived..

so .. the other ..

1) what mirror was it
2) what coating was it,,for the base.. for the top coat..

I dont want to keep going back and forth... editing etc.. etc.. trust you understand... and thanks..

Robert
post #1674 of 2678
What you saw was the original MississippiMud topcoat sprayed atop an acrylic mirror. First surface is under experimentation at this time.
Months ago I posted a comparison screen shot of the different topcoats in a side by side comparison and requested members to vote their preference.
Most concluded the topcoats were 'so close' but edged in favor of the Mud.

As tribute for all of MM's effort, I elected to go with popular concensus and have use said topcoat on all my screens. (NOTE: I have an LCD projector)

As stated from the very beginning, use any topcoat of your choosing. "All roads lead to light fusion." The concept remains painting a translucent topcoat on a mirror or mirror like substrate.
post #1675 of 2678
CMRA..

Thankyou very much.. that may explain why I had some of my own issues with it.. . I thought that the first surface mirror was utilized and was expecting an improved scattering of light with it and thought maybe it was just the coating... the pink I didn't care about..because it can get adjusted.. The use of first surface mirrors has been around for a while.. I was hoping you guys had landed one for cheap.. cheap..

For my own use this is all I am interested in.. What is the largest size of the first surface mirror you guys have found so far?? and for how much?? and where??

Damn now I have a ton of posts to adjust..

But if you have the name of the acrylic mirror used and the actual mix it would be appreciated.. then I can just do a search .. and swap it out..

Before doing this I will drop a line in here and then if ok .. drag it into my summary..

I still dont get why it couldnt be shipped as requested.. would have been easy to do one side with one coat and the other side with another.. I would be a bit worried about the water base flaking off in transit.. the horizontal lines would be diminished to some degree as well ..

Robert
post #1676 of 2678
There was talk of a 6'x10' one for ~ $300 before shipping. I don't think we have gotten the diffinative answer on this.
post #1677 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by mandarax
CMRA..

For my own use this is all I am interested in.. What is the largest size of the first surface mirror you guys have found so far??

Robert

I have yet to pursue first surface, so I'm clueless. MM and Bruce Can have been the only ones I recall mentioning their involvement with first surface. I have a standing challenge with MM to prove first surface is the better of the two (complete with screen shots)...see my prior posts.
post #1678 of 2678
I'm a bit confused on the "light scattering" issue. I would not think that the acrylic mirror was the direct cause of the reduction in SDE. I think it was one of two things or a little of both. I would think that the light that passed through the paint was slightly softened. The softening would have been caused by some photons (sounds technical now) being redirected slightly by the paint and then coming back slightly off from where they entered. The other cause would just be the normal refraction that occurs when light enters a clear material of a different density (aka you hand look bent when you stick it in water). Both of these effects could reduce the Screen door with out significantly reducing the focus as the total amount of light returned to the surface is a fraction of what is reflected off the top layer.

Okay so the problem I see is if you scatter the light too much then the bright light is reaching areas that should be dark. Also as only so much light will make it thorough the layer of paint, and you want to return as much as possible to the point of origin. If you scatter it the angle of the returning photon may be so great that it refracts (i.e. the reflection you see off a glass window at a high angle of incidence, ooh more big words :-) ) off the plastic and never returns to the surface.

Just my thoughts
post #1679 of 2678
Quote:


Originally posted by chuckvb
Both of these effects could reduce the Screen door with out significantly reducing the focus as the total amount of light returned to the surface is a fraction of what is reflected off the top layer.

I think it depends on how much is returned. If you have a red pixel next to a green pixel you could have an orange zone in the middle if too much is scattered and returned. If claims are made that the mirror significantly increases the gain of the screen, then this would imply that the amount coming back is significant. If not, then where would a big jump in extra gain come from? As I see it, there is a balance where adding a positive can also put in a negative. For a high SDE projector like the Z1 I could see this being a positive, but for an AE500 or SX21 I just don't imagine it as a positive thing.

--Darin
post #1680 of 2678
Gentlemen, (Darin and Chuck)

I'll let you science guys figure the SDE issue out. Frankly, I would not go overboard with it because lower resolution LCD projectors will be phased out in the not to distant future. Just like the grey screen (yes my opinion, again) its benefit will only last until technology makes it a non-issue. Tomorrow's entry level PJ will be 1280x720 and have enough CR to overcome both of these hurdles.

Now, please excuse me, I have to put a quarter into my crystal ball.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Screen Section
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Screens › DIY Screen Section › CRMA/MM Superplex Formula