Originally posted by fishshtick
Do you really think that FS designs are best for every projector or taste? From what I understand there may be a tradeoff beteen FS and Plexi designs.**************************************************** ************************************************************ *******
If FS is definitely better than I might as well save the money I was going to spend on plexi. Can you refer me to any posts that have discussed the physics of the two designs...as I probably dragging up old material.
Very old indeed. But it's expected of all newbees to want to be led directly to the Gold mine of info that lies buried within AVS's backyard..
Do I really think that FS is...........etc? Why do people read into my statements such intentions? Then they ask me if I'd be so myopic to think such? Truth is, MMud alone is much more a Panacea than LF. If you have a great PJ, w/HD res. and 1500:1 CR or better, MMud is all that's really needed to satisfy. Many say ANY white surface is as good but that's bunk fer sure. LF is even better because it not only adds the contrast enhancing properties of the reflective mirror, it also adds SDE/artifact absorption tendencies and a color correctness that comes naturally to excellent white surfaces. Ask me again, and I'll say again, YES, for almost any who could aspire to create one, or have it created for them, there is IMHO no other screen under $2500.00 that can come close to doing what LF does in all directions. Nada. And those that do come close always have a particular sore point, such a viewing cone, graininess, and EXPENSE!
When one considers that such performance comes at a $200.00 & under price, less spraying equipment, and $500.00 tops if you buy the spray gear, it cannot be anything else BUT the best solution to any who can have a fixed screen, want the best performance possible for the very least amount spent, and who have the gumption to get off the couch and make one themselves.
It must be good. At least 2 individuals have started building mail/web order businesses around similar "clones' of the SM/MM concept. Imitation is the sincerest form of flatery, but it's laughable because MMud is itself a adaptive clone of GOO.
Are there easier solutions that are perfectly acceptable for others to try? Sure. Can you by a screen for $500-600.00 and get a good image from $1000.00 to $2500.00 PJ? Yeah. But that's not the objective of this thread, or the mind-think of most DIY'ers that lurk on Screens. Nope, they want the best results for the least, but "No Compromises" please. That is why I say LF serves to be able to satisfy a far larger group of enthusiasts, including the most critical of Videophiles, if given the chance.
let everyone else with the tendency to do so, go shopping around and follow the crowd down that well traveled path of compacency.
Fishshook, your suggestion isn't new, but it comes at a time where CMRA & I both have been wondering; "What next?" That the product your suggesting is of a thicker, more 'working friendly' nature makes it more a possibility than just an idea.
ANY Layered application based on a highly reflective substrate covered with a "special" white Top Coat will out of necessity have to have at least 3 layers of MMud to effect the right combination of absorptive, reflective properties. Those same layers, while by no means 1/8" thick, still offer all the best qualities of the original SM/MM wall screen, but with the addition of a significant increase, nay, an almost exponential increase in the specific beneficial effects described above that are unique to the Mirror Screen. Brightness is way up, but without the Glow and it's color shifting, however slight. Detail is 'snappish', even with a DLP, not a LCD, and colors are the most vibrant and smoothly textured that I have ever experienced.
Science? Theres been a lot. DHunt is the Resident SM/MM to LF historian and can probably (...and WILL!) correct any dated misinformation contained within the schooling below. look to him for acopy of LF history, and a guide to most of the more important posts.
History 101 (...didn't I just do this?)
14' diagonal Silver Metallic / MississippiMud "LAYERED" Wall screen painted in New Jersey
Per *sic* Specific wavelengths of Light penetrate Top Coat, reacts to Silver Metallic in a 'contrast enhancing' manner, re-penetrates and combines with light reflecting directly off Top Coat. Very little extra distance is traveled by the penetrating Light, but a difference in depth there is indeed. Results: Vibrant, high contrast image, with 3-Dimensional characteristic on any applicable surface. "Roll" intensive process, but easy to ascertain how much Top Coat to apply. Other drawbacks are applicable surfaces that are smooth enough to utilize as a paintable surface. How to wet sand rougher surfaces to prepare for base, and wet-sanding between coats to achieve a smooth texture becomes sticking points. Whiners lament about their lack of rolling. sanding skills.
Do a search of my posts dated between November and January and you'll find plenty of info & pics.
Clear Plexi coated w/ Silver Metallic base & MMud face proposed by CMRA. MM scoffs at first, then relents, realizing CMRA's main effort is to find a consistently smooth surface to apply paint to, minimizing the need to sand to smooth. Joint agreement by MM & CMRA to try a layered approach, painting SM on rear & MMud on front.
Samples sprayed by MM & CMRA, tested, approved.
Full size example proves out to provide a obvious illumination effect. Light is illuminating the 1/8" space. No blurring or shifting of the image is observed. Contrast enhancement is exceptional, making CMRA's lowly Z1 with 500:1 CR perform like a $5000 DLP.
Many cry foul. Accuse CMRA of doctoring photos.
Still a pain to paint, requiring specialized spraying equipment. Gains seem problematical when compared to additional expense & effort, but no denying a significant improvement. People want to know about the science. We don't need no stinkin' science!
Lazy ol' CMRA who hates messin' wit SM finds inexpensive 88"x44' Wardrobe mirror and applies MMud. SuperDeluxe is born. Same pricible as SuperPlex, but now light reflectivity is much greater. Quote CMRA: "This Puppy GLOWS!" Yes indeed it does, but with the Z1, not so obvious overtones of orangeish shadows around flestones are visible to the overly discerning eye. What a shame one has to try hard to find something wrong. Most tellingly, the aberration would'nt have been noticed at all had not the quality of CMRA's SS's been so exceptional, due to the z1's clarity of image. When in motion, the effect isn't discernible at all to most everyone else, and noticed by only a few in SS's. Added benefits are a reduction of SDE and pixelation, as well as modest artifacts, creating a smooth, yet detailed image not found on conventional LARGE CRT Tubes or Plasmas.
Many cry foul. Accuse CMRA of doctoring photos. War is waged. We win.
1-12-04 & beyond
Reasonably affordable 5'x8' Plastic Mirrors are found. MM promptly paint 3 screens, showing 2 in different Home Shows, and installs first LF screen in a Client's home. Light Fusion becomes the official name of Plexi-Mirror / MMud. MMan finds a 6' x 8' Plexi-Mirror on Maui, paints that as well. Posts Pics. Installs 5 more LF's between late Jan. and March. 3-16-04 MM goes to Atlantic City Expo Center with 87" x 48" LF and complete Invisible Stereo HT set-up contained within a 10' x 12' enclosure. Wows East Coast Builders Association members. 4-17-04 MM goes to Canuck Shootout. Paints LF screen in 1-1/2' days "OUTSIDE" in Canadian wind. Shows it the following day, fresh, untried and uncured against the best screens MFGs' have to offer. Seems to do spectacularly well and is acclaimed a great success by many present. "Officially" places 4 th on a 11 screen venue. Not so strangely, LF causes far more disquiet among those who sell screens than it's 4 th place standing would seem to indicate.
MM adds insult to injury by exhibiting a basic Silver paint called "SilverScreen" by Behr, that also surprises many, but winds up not even being included in any ranking. Too easy...too cheap.....; too threatening? look to the "SilverScreen" thread to find many Happy Campers.
Well that's all in the past now, and it's for you Fishstuck, to decide for yourself based on what you have read, what you can dig up out of hoary old posts 2-4 months old, and what opinions you can conjure up by those who have "Been there, Done that." through most of the last 4-5 month.
Their opinions are likely to be more balanced, certainly less biased, but probably no less effusive about how much better imagery seems to be with Light Fusion. Ask me, and you know how I'll respond. Go with whatever variant you choose, from SM/MM up to FSLF, and you'll see broad ranging results you cannot see anywhere else on any one Mfg. screen.
It will happen, And you'll be glad. If we are all lucky, the Mylar will usher in the opportunity for many more to attempt LF than can do so at present, and that, Fishsoup, is what DIY is really all about.
PS. In the time it took to write this, i see another post has come into the thread. Now I wonder...........?