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post #31 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Big L
\\Since they know where their bread is buttered, don't think they give a damn whether you buy a GC or not. To them, Japan is the turkey and we're just the gravy.
I think that's a bit extreme. The other major game companies are bigger than Nintendo, so similar notions could be made with them not caring either.

Nonetheless, just because Nintendo seems to cater their games towards their homeland gamers doesn't mean they don't care about their other fans out there. Heck, Metroid wasn't even that popular in Japan, it was much more popular in the US. Chances are Metroid Prime(which I consider to be the best GC game that exists at this moment) was made specifically with the US market in mind.

People in Japan might think that Microsoft doesn't give a damn about Japanese gamers and only cares about the US. I also think that's not true. Microsoft is working very hard at trying to make the XBOX appeal to Japan while still keeping their homeland gamers happy. Both companies offer good and unique gaming experiences, but the people they listen to more just happen to be on opposite sides of the world. As Shawn pointed out earlier, it's difficult to make everyone happy, so you just do the best you can and hope it has broad appeal.
post #32 of 170
That's why I was excited when the XBOX came along. After the N64 and PS it was like we finally got a system with a more American flavor. Big honkin' system with controllers for big American hands. Japanese consoles may not seem like they only cater to Japan but it is where their heart lies.
post #33 of 170
LOL.....come on, that first XBOX controller was like an anchor. I couldn't stand the feel of it, which was one of my main hesitations on getting an XBOX. I figured no matter how good the games were I wouldn't be able to use that controller. Then M$ changed to the S controller and it's just leagues better IMO. Better button layout, more ergonomic, etc. After a few more XBOX games came out that I wanted to play I had no reason not to get one.
post #34 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Martin
That's why I was excited when the XBOX came along. After the N64 and PS it was like we finally got a system with a more American flavor. Big honkin' system with controllers for big American hands. Japanese consoles may not seem like they only cater to Japan but it is where their heart lies.
I was very pleased with adult sized controllers for the Saturn (the analog), Dreamcast and Xbox. I really REALLY hate the oval buttons for the orinal controller though. I now use the S controller on games that I need the face buttons allot.

The GC controller is of course for children and adults with small hands. I think that controller turned allot of consumers off. I know some argue its not a kiddy system, but you cannot argue the controller fits a 7-10 year olds hands perfectly.. and that means its small for the average adult.

I am pretty sure Metroid Prime was designed and programmed in Texas.. the series is actually not very big in Japan, it sold more on NES than Famicom. Odd as heck as Metroid (the 2D series) shared allot with Rockman/Megaman which was HUGE in Japan back then.
post #35 of 170
I really don't believe that the Cube's main goal is to be a kiddy system or that the controllers are specifically designed for a child's hand. I believe it is because it is designed by a Japanese company and some of their tastes, design ideas are different than ours. If you look at their culture they are into a lot of colors and shapes and that sort of kiddy type design. It catches the eye. And in the U.S. it catches kids eyes.

I just think a lot of gamers in the US have grown beyond Mario and some of the characters that Nintendo has.
post #36 of 170
I personally like the feel of the GC controller a lot. I really like the shoulder buttons and the analog stick has a nice feel to it. The Z button is good, but feels a little out of place. I also like what Nintendo tried to do with the face buttons in terms of giving them a different size, shape, and color. However, this works well with some kinds of games and not well with others. So you take the good with the bad. The D pad is definitely too small though.

Overall I still feel the controller sits comfortably in my hands. The wavebird was my first wireless controller experience and I just completely fell in love with it. It was just amazed that I could play a game from anywhere in my room without having to deal with cords. I was excited about the Logitech wireless controllers for the PS2 and XBOX, but after I tried them out I couldn't stand them as I thought that just felt horrible. At this stage, I'm not sure if I like the GC controller better because I like the feel of it or because it's wireless. If Sony and M$ made their controllers wireless I would love it though as I really enjoy the feel of each of the controllers in some way.
post #37 of 170
Ok yeah the Gamecube control fits smaller hands better. But is it really that much smaller than any other controller (with the exception of the original xbox controller)? In my hands, my PS2 and GC controllers are about the same. They share in common a lightweight, sleek look that really isn't shared by the xbox. Maybe M$ is just catering towards the American affinity for a heavy, rugged looking thing (ahem - the SUV of console controllers).
post #38 of 170
Quote:
If Sony and M$ made their controllers wireless I would love it though as I really enjoy the feel of each of the controllers in some way.
The Logitec Xbox wireless controller works as well as the wavebird although I feel they made the Logitech controller too wide. It does have Rumble, something I wish they could have included on the Wavebird.
Not to be nitpicky but I wish they had made the buttons different colors like the Xbox controller. It makes it a bit easier when looking for the right button or telling another person to press 'the blue/green/yellow/red button during a game.
post #39 of 170
I'm not questioning the wireless functionality at all. I've used it and it worked great in terms of response. But, I didn't like the feel of the controller. It just felt awkward in my hands and I felt it was heavy. So, I've opted to playing with the first party corded controllers for PS2 and XBOX since I like the feeling of them better, but since the wavebird feels exactly the same as the standard GC pad, I use it for my GC playing.
post #40 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Martin
I really don't believe that the Cube's main goal is to be a kiddy system or that the controllers are specifically designed for a child's hand. I believe it is because it is designed by a Japanese company and some of their tastes, design ideas are different than ours. If you look at their culture they are into a lot of colors and shapes and that sort of kiddy type design. It catches the eye. And in the U.S. it catches kids eyes.

I think you may have it right. The whole colorful/shapes design scheme is more accepted by adults in Japan than in the US. Adults in the US seem to be attracted to solid component-like equipment (...and I'm pretty sure there are few exceptions on AVS Forum:) ).

I personally think the GC looks like a toy. I think the games are good, functions fine, and the controller works fairly well (and I have some serious paws) but I don't care for the look and that's a significant detractor as I fall into the casual gamer/HT fan who doesn't want some bright colored cube and controllers visible in my room (once again - just my opinion and trying to give some insight into why GC design is unpopular with US adults who aren't big gaming fans). When my neighbor brought her's over and we were playing one of the Star Wars games I was loving the game but couldn't get over how it looked sitting in my living room. For me the xbox would be even better if they got rid of the green jewell up top, integrated the IR receiver for the remote, and made the whole thing out of heavy brushed metal (can we say industrial component - just my taste - BTW I've seen someone build a case like this for their xbox, top quality job and soooo good looking). Hell, I even leave my controllers unplugged because I feel it looks nicer. Still, this is my opinion on design taste purely but I doubt I'm alone in this regard.

Now for someone younger, kids like colors and noticable (what I could call obtrusive) design. Look at baby toys and all the bright colors and bobbles on them. As kids in the US grow older they want a more serious looking system since they likely associate a more "refined?" design as being for adults and something for adults as being of higher quality than an item made for children (I don't think that's a big jump in logic - most everything made especially for kids is smaller and of lower quality than the adult equivalents available - some exceptions but the best adult X is generally in a completely different league than the best X made for kids).

As far as the xbox controller, I think the majority of the problem was that people were used to Playstation and other modern small controllers making the original xbox controller a massive departure from what they were used to. I can definitely imagine many children just getting into gaming might have a problem holding onto and manipulating that rugged brick.

Anyway - My money is on the cultural design issue.
post #41 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by dschroll
I'm not questioning the wireless functionality at all. I've used it and it worked great in terms of response. But, I didn't like the feel of the controller. It just felt awkward in my hands and I felt it was heavy. So, I've opted to playing with the first party corded controllers for PS2 and XBOX since I like the feeling of them better, but since the wavebird feels exactly the same as the standard GC pad, I use it for my GC playing.
The Logitech is heavier, no doubt. As for PS2 I have yet to find a good wireless remote. I'm not really looking since I try not to use the PS2. I think I have one game I am working on for it. When I finish it I'm done with the PS2.
post #42 of 170
Don't forget though, the main selling point with the iMac was all the different colors. It was a HUGE seller for Macintosh since they were trying to go against the norm of standard white casings.

I think Nintendo was hoping it would get a similar reaction with the GC and it didn't. Live and learn. I would definitely look for Nintendo's next system to be more sleak and probably a black or silver color.
post #43 of 170
LOL.....my biggest problem with the wavebird is that it's too tempting to throw it across the room when I die unexpectedly in the middle of a level. ;)
post #44 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisFB
I think you may have it right. The whole colorful/shapes design scheme is more accepted by adults in Japan than in the US. Adults in the US seem to be attracted to solid component-like equipment (...and I'm pretty sure there are few exceptions on AVS Forum:) ).

I personally think the GC looks like a toy. I think the games are good, functions fine, and the controller works fairly well (and I have some serious paws) but I don't care for the look and that's a significant detractor as I fall into the casual gamer/HT fan who doesn't want some bright colored cube and controllers visible in my room (once again - just my opinion and trying to give some insight into why GC design is unpopular with US adults who aren't big gaming fans). When my neighbor brought her's over and we were playing one of the Star Wars games I was loving the game but couldn't get over how it looked sitting in my living room. For me the xbox would be even better if they got rid of the green jewell up top, integrated the IR receiver for the remote, and made the whole thing out of heavy brushed metal (can we say industrial component - just my taste - BTW I've seen someone build a case like this for their xbox, top quality job and soooo good looking). Hell, I even leave my controllers unplugged because I feel it looks nicer. Still, this is my opinion on design taste purely but I doubt I'm alone in this regard.

Now for someone younger, kids like colors and noticable (what I could call obtrusive) design. Look at baby toys and all the bright colors and bobbles on them. As kids in the US grow older they want a more serious looking system since they likely associate a more "refined?" design as being for adults and something for adults as being of higher quality than an item made for children (I don't think that's a big jump in logic - most everything made especially for kids is smaller and of lower quality than the adult equivalents available - some exceptions but the best adult X is generally in a completely different league than the best X made for kids).

As far as the xbox controller, I think the majority of the problem was that people were used to Playstation and other modern small controllers making the original xbox controller a massive departure from what they were used to. I can definitely imagine many children just getting into gaming might have a problem holding onto and manipulating that rugged brick.

Anyway - My money is on the cultural design issue.
nice post trying to mask the idea that it has to do with "solid component equipment that matches your setup". it's quite obvious you are EMBARASSED to have something that looks like a "toy" in your living room. you stated many times over how you you thought this "I personally think the GC looks like a toy." Funny thing is, all consoles are toys. So you either need to come to grips with reality or continue to be insecure when someone might come over, see your kiddie looking console, and then worry about that person whispering to your fellow co-workers you play a kiddie console. grow up and deal with it man, it's not a life altering decision to have something that looks that way.

"Anyway - My money is on the cultural design issue."

not completely true, for instance cubes controler was throught out regarding people who might be new to gaming all together, i mean doesnt a button thats RED mean stop or back?!!? green = go ala a main button, and the 2 other buttons are great to be used in conjunction with the A button as well as a B + A button combo. so in effect giving users more button combos as well. it can be simple at one point ie very oriented and more complex, i think it's a great controller and when i look at it i don't think or worry that it's TEH KIDDIE looking.
post #45 of 170
Two things that point away from the cultural theory:

1:Over the past 50 years the average height of a japanese male 20-30 has gone from 5'2" to 5'8". So the GC controller would be small for the average adult gamer even in Japan.

2: The best selling console in Japan is black and has a controller designed for at least slightly lager hands and analog/digital pads twice the size of the GC controller versions.

The system than knocked Nintendo from the #1 spot in Japan and the world was gray or black with the same controller style. It seems unlikely that Nintendo was shooting for the adult market (PS2) with a colorful console with small controllers when the market had already decided on basic colors and a radically different controller style.
post #46 of 170
Gameboya,

I've done all I can for you. I'm more than happy to talk games and stuff but when you keep going off on people this thread will get torn down quickly. You're on your own bud.
post #47 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by dschroll
Gameboya,

I've done all I can for you. I'm more than happy to talk games and stuff but when you keep going off on people this thread will get torn down quickly. You're on your own bud.
Agreed, we don't have to put up with this....
post #48 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Gameboya
nice post trying to mask the idea that it has to do with "solid component equipment that matches your setup". it's quite obvious you are EMBARASSED to have something that looks like a "toy" in your living room. you stated many times over how you you thought this "I personally think the GC looks like a toy." Funny thing is, all consoles are toys. So you either need to come to grips with reality or continue to be insecure when someone might come over, see your kiddie looking console, and then worry about that person whispering to your fellow co-workers you play a kiddie console. grow up and deal with it man, it's not a life altering decision to have something that looks that way.
I'll try to clarify for you but from what I gather you may be something of a troll so I'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood my post and then I'll be done with it.

It's not about how I think I will be preceived by others - I am older with a family so I got over that whole thing a long while ago. It's about what I think of the design. It doesn't match or fit with what I like. As good as a system as it is, it doesn't have the clean line aesthetics that I like to have in my home - or my entertainment center which is really the only area I have absolute control over anymore (at least we retain this in marriage :) ).

I'm not a hardcore gamer - I have one system (Xbox) and I bought it originally so I could play Kelly Slater Pro Surfer and not have to ungrade my home PC again just for gaming (I am also a surfer who is stranded inland for the time being so it was a cheap fix thing). If I was 'all about the games', it wouldn't matter what it looked like but I don't get to play many games and there are very few I actually think are worth my time. My xbox is modded and I use it primarily as a home theater PC steaming my video and audio files from my server. For me it is a component and I much prefer that type of look over something more obtrusive like the Gamecube design. So what I am saying is, for the adult non-hardcore gamer the design itself can be an issue for the sole reason that it doesn't 'match' the rest of their entertainment centers (likely a larger issue on a high end home theater/audio site). I enjoy games and don't mind owning a toy (hell I'm having a hard time waiting for my son to get older so I can buy one of those race tracks I used to love). However, if said toy is going to make its home next to my television and other equipment, I want it to blend in and the Cube just doesn't work in that regard.

My point in illustrating it was to lend credence to the cultural design theory as I know a fair number of Japanese (20+) and I think there is some truth in the theory. I think you were the only person to take offense or get the wrong idea so the above is for you benefit and closure on that point - you can do with that as you will but I tried to offer you enough respect to clarify my point again.
--------------

Frank - you have some good points. I think #1 is a non-issue - I have some large hands (6'3") and I don't think the GC controllers are uncomfortably small. Maybe others have that opinion but I use the regular xbox controller and still find the GC to be fine - I'm not convinced it doesn't come down to a matter of what one is used to. As for #2 - you are dead on. I don't know that the PS2 being more popular in Japan is attributable to a design more acceptable to one culture or another but clearly the theory is not strong enough to hold accross the board (i.e. Japanese will buy a colorful console over a bland one irregardless of capabilities, timing, or past success). I still think that the Gamecube design is more popular among Japanese adults than US adults but other factors are clearly at play in the console battle.
post #49 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisFB
I'll try to clarify for you but from what I gather you may be something of a troll so I'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood my post and then I'll be done with it.

It's not about how I think I will be preceived by others - I am older with a family so I got over that whole thing a long while ago. It's about what I think of the design. It doesn't match or fit with what I like. As good as a system as it is, it doesn't have the clean line aesthetics that I like to have in my home - or my entertainment center which is really the only area I have absolute control over anymore (at least we retain this in marriage :) ).

I'm not a hardcore gamer - I have one system (Xbox) and I bought it originally so I could play Kelly Slater Pro Surfer and not have to ungrade my home PC again just for gaming (I am also a surfer who is stranded inland for the time being so it was a cheap fix thing). If I was 'all about the games', it wouldn't matter what it looked like but I don't get to play many games and there are very few I actually think are worth my time. My xbox is modded and I use it primarily as a home theater PC steaming my video and audio files from my server. For me it is a component and I much prefer that type of look over something more obtrusive like the Gamecube design. So what I am saying is, for the adult non-hardcore gamer the design itself can be an issue for the sole reason that it doesn't 'match' the rest of their entertainment centers (likely a larger issue on a high end home theater/audio site). I enjoy games and don't mind owning a toy (hell I'm having a hard time waiting for my son to get older so I can buy one of those race tracks I used to love). However, if said toy is going to make its home next to my television and other equipment, I want it to blend in and the Cube just doesn't work in that regard.

My point in illustrating it was to lend credence to the cultural design theory as I know a fair number of Japanese (20+) and I think there is some truth in the theory. I think you were the only person to take offense or get the wrong idea so the above is for you benefit and closure on that point - you can do with that as you will but I tried to offer you enough respect to clarify my point again.
--------------

Frank - you have some good points. I think #1 is a non-issue - I have some large hands (6'3") and I don't think the GC controllers are uncomfortably small. Maybe others have that opinion but I use the regular xbox controller and still find the GC to be fine - I'm not convinced it doesn't come down to a matter of what one is used to. As for #2 - you are dead on. I don't know that the PS2 being more popular in Japan is attributable to a design more acceptable to one culture or another but clearly the theory is not strong enough to hold accross the board (i.e. Japanese will buy a colorful console over a bland one irregardless of capabilities, timing, or past success). I still think that the Gamecube design is more popular among Japanese adults than US adults but other factors are clearly at play in the console battle.
well next time a new console launches, maybe you can call up sony or microsoft and they will tailor a console to EXACTLY your needs/wants. I mean what do you expect sir? Console hardware manufacturers can't please everyone. And to top it off gamecube has cleaner lines than either ps2 or xbox, it's nearly a perfectly square, how much more clean can you get! LOL You have to understand consoles arent like stereo recievers where you can buy 100's of different models/colors/styles etc.... sorry if I came off abruptly but you can't have your cake and eat it too! :(
post #50 of 170
ChrisFb, It's not just an issue with clean lines, it's the footprint AND the fact that it is a top-loader which makes it impossible to put on a shelf without having some head-room. Not to mention it has a big handle sticking out of it.
post #51 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Gameboya
well next time a new console launches, maybe you can call up sony or microsoft and they will tailor a console to EXACTLY your needs/wants. I mean what do you expect sir? Console hardware manufacturers can't please everyone. And to top it off gamecube has cleaner lines than either ps2 or xbox, it's nearly a perfectly square, how much more clean can you get! LOL You have to understand consoles arent like stereo recievers where you can buy 100's of different models/colors/styles etc.... sorry if I came off abruptly but you can't have your cake and eat it too! :(
No worries. Understand that component equipent doesn't come with many aesthetic options. They are almost uniformly black or silver in rectangular shape and differ mainly in functionality provided, not the exterior appearance - although there are a lot more choices than 3.

Xbox looks like a component or very close (rectangular, black, front loading). Gamecube is square and colorful (not like a component - and loads from the top which is a serious pain in a rack environment). This doesn't mean I would never buy a console just because it doesn't match but it would need to offer something above a choice that does have the look I'm after (significantly supperior graphics, audio, or the greatest surfing game on the planet). For right now the xbox offers pretty close to the look I want and the functions I'm after (especially after modding it - no other console can compare or come close) - this is my cake and I eat it happily. This is also why xbox dominates the home theater crowd - best A/V funtions and looks close to what they are used to. If GC had significantly better graphics and sound than Xbox many of us would likely overcome the aestheic hurdle (with the theory that this hurdle is more significant for adult US consumers than those in Japan) since even though we are interested in aesthetics, a high-end A/V forum is still about functionality. Unfortunately for GC that isn't the case - it is arguably almost equal unless one approaches for an exculsive game perspective and that is highly subjective ground. All that being said, I want GC to sell and do well so we don't all find ourselves in a pure Sony and MS world - Nintendo is innovative and it would be a shame to lose that.
post #52 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Martin
ChrisFb, It's not just an issue with clean lines, it's the footprint AND the fact that it is a top-loader which makes it impossible to put on a shelf without having some head-room. Not to mention it has a big handle sticking out of it.
LMAO!! OMG NO!! A handle!! Now it must be a purse or something. Fact is you can't even see that black handle, do you keep your consoles sideways or something? I think he is just side stepping the whole "kiddie" look imo. I can sorta buy that it might be harder for him to use it because it's not a tray but I would suspect there is more than one way to put it somewhere in the entertainment center.
post #53 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Martin
ChrisFb, It's not just an issue with clean lines, it's the footprint AND the fact that it is a top-loader which makes it impossible to put on a shelf without having some head-room. Not to mention it has a big handle sticking out of it.
You beat me to it. I was building all of that in to the 'component look' - but clean lines is what I happen to like in my home. Although if it wasn't for a feminine touch I'd be living in white walls with lots of beige.
post #54 of 170
You have to kep the console exposed because it is a top-loader.
post #55 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisFB
No worries. Understand that component equipent doesn't come with many aesthetic options. They are almost uniformly black or silver in rectangular shape and differ mainly in functionality provided, not the exterior appearance - although there are a lot more choices than 3.

Xbox looks like a component or very close (rectangular, black, front loading). Gamecube is square and colorful (not like a component - and loads from the top which is a serious pain in a rack environment). This doesn't mean I would never buy a console just because it doesn't match but it would need to offer something above a choice that does have the look I'm after (significantly supperior graphics, audio, or the greatest surfing game on the planet). For right now the xbox offers pretty close to the look I want and the functions I'm after (especially after modding it - no other console can compare or come close) - this is my cake and I eat it happily. This is also why xbox dominates the home theater crowd - best A/V funtions and looks close to what they are used to. If GC had significantly better graphics and sound than Xbox many of us would likely overcome the aestheic hurdle (with the theory that this hurdle is more significant for adult US consumers than those in Japan) since even though we are interested in aesthetics, a high-end A/V forum is still about functionality. Unfortunately for GC that isn't the case - it is arguably almost equal unless one approaches for an exculsive game perspective and that is highly subjective ground. All that being said, I want GC to sell and do well so we don't all find ourselves in a pure Sony and MS world - Nintendo is innovative and it would be a shame to lose that.
well if those are the people buying an xbox they are buying it for the WRONG reasons. I bet 95% of these a/v people aren't MODDING their xbox's either. so your point is moot. oh and gamecube colorfull>?!?! there is ONE that is purple or whatever color they call it and the others are BLACK and PLATINUM! So there are in fact LESS "colorfull" nintendo consoles. :rolleyes:

"If GC had significantly better graphics and sound than Xbox many of us would likely overcome the aestheic hurdle"

it's obvious you have had LIMITED play on a gamecube as gamecubes BEST graphical games are BETTER than xbox's best. and not just by opinion, check Factor 5's latest RS3 Rebel Strike, they have posted on message boards the all the technical graphical things going on and it is legues above xbox's. Sound you can have, I'm not going to argue that dolby pro logic 2 is better than dolby digital, but I have heard some downright PATHETIC dolby digital xbox games. It would have sounded BETTER if they kept it plain stereo in some cases. And I have heard some of the best sound ever on the cube, which again I can point to Rebel Strike which implments a new dolby pro logic 2 compression which simulates 7.1!! The only thing that is REALLY more noticeable is more bass in dolby digital, and very small differences in seperation, but not to the point where I am saying to myslef how much more of a difference every game is to each other. It's either going to be poor, good, or awsome. Do you have to sit there and count every polygon and or texture etc??? If you are, again, you are playing games for the WRONG reasons!
post #56 of 170
I forgot to mention the Memory cards sticking out. Having a built in hard drive and not having to manage memory cards is a huge plus.
post #57 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Gameboya
LMAO!! OMG NO!! A handle!! Now it must be a purse or something. Fact is you can't even see that black handle, do you keep your consoles sideways or something? I think he is just side stepping the whole "kiddie" look imo. I can sorta buy that it might be harder for him to use it because it's not a tray but I would suspect there is more than one way to put it somewhere in the entertainment center.
It would be that attitude that people here have taken offense to. You come close to personal attacks which are totally inappropriate in a discussion regardless of whether or not you agree with a point someone is making. As a person trying to make the point that a GC is not a "Kiddie" console you might try conducting yourself with some maturity.
post #58 of 170
My console is not in my entertainment center because it loads from the top.
post #59 of 170
I have my GC right next to my DC in my entertainment center. My entertainment rack is about as packed as it can with my receiver, 4 game consoles, VCR, and DVD player. Hopefully by the time the next game consoles come out I'll be in a bigger place and can buy a bigger entertainment center ;)
post #60 of 170
Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Martin
I forgot to mention the Memory cards sticking out. Having a built in hard drive and not having to manage memory cards is a huge plus.
grasping for straws. yet you will manage all the BS with your mod chip. errrm yeah ok. btw the xbox is as big as the old vcr's, how do you compensate space for that??
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