Hsu Vtf Or Stf???  

I'd get the STF-2 (most people use VTF-2 in max extension mode which is what the STF is permanently set to for the stf-2).

Sorny

Either model because they are both as good as identical in performance down to 25Hz. Except of course the VTF-2 has the option of (an average) 3dB gain down to its optional 32Hz tuning mode.

The VTF-2 is the old proven and well reviewed horse, where the STF-2 is the new kid on the block and yet to gain its stripes.

1: Performance identical to 25Hz.
2: Looks are Different. (textured / vinyl)
3: Older proven design (VTF)
4: Newer Model (STF)
5: Side Ports (VTF)
6: Rear Port (STF)
7: More Spl <32Hz (VTF)

For me the VTF-2 still looks like its more flexible for most people and it's proven itself over and over again. But hey the STF-2 is starting already to win hearts and souls, but the new 250w VTF-2 Mk2 will no doubt seal it back into being the choice 10" Hsu sub.


Ddavidson

vtf-2 mk2

when and what will the sub be like-price, performance, size?
any idea?

edit
just found out HSU has there own little web board. On the site there are tons of threads like this. i suggest you check it out
www.hsuresearch.com

I can only tell you what was in the CES press release that I read because it is not out till sometime in Jan 2004. It is not on Hsu's web site because the Mk1 is still selling as the current model.

VTF-2 MK2
Finish: Furniture Grade Piano Black Finish
Amplifier: 250w Bash Amplifier
Feet: Gold Spiked Feet
Crossover: Adj 30-90Hz - 24dB Crossover
VTF Modes: 25Hz (depth) and 32Hz (output)
Switching: Auto defeat on/off
Driver: New High Output 10" Custom Hsu Driver
Porting: Duel 3" High Flow Porting
Acc: Illuminating Hsu Research Badging, Special Test Disk
Warranty: 7 years on the woofer, 2 years on the electronics, parts and labor included
Retail: $625

Ddavidson

The Mk2 sounds great, however the STF-3 is cheaper and in theory more capable. OTOH the STF-3 is physically larger and doesn't have the VTF-2 Mk2's nice exterior, so might not fit your available space or decor requirements.

Hsu have said they are targeting the WAF for the VTF where the STF is more for the guys who want no frills. Also that $625 price is their retail price just like the STF-3 has a $749 retail price so at a guess for factory direct you will see that price come down when it gets offered for sale.


Ddavidson

My guess is the factory price for the VTF-2MKII will not be too much more than the current VTF-2's regular $499 price if not the same.

Looking at the retail to factory math they have used for the STF-1, STF-2, STF-3 and VTF-3 MK2.

Its basically -20% so $500 looks about right at a guess.

Ddavidson

While i just got a VTF-2 mk1, what more will the mk2 offer? It seems only a different finish and more powerfull amp?

Is this power really needed, while 150w on the original certainly does not seem alot, it compares with 300-500w on many other brand subs amp ratings.

At 150w mine has near 10db extra (ie can crank reciever 10db) above listening (which is hugely loud) and it ain't even broke in yet (maybe 10-15hrs thus far)

I thought about waiting for the mk2 which would have been at least 1 month here and cost, well $900 AUD was the mk1, i think the mk2 would be $1300 AUD. I was at first concerned that 150w was not enuf, as my old sub had only this, but if the mk1 is "true" 150w, my old sub is maybe 50w :)

The VTF-2 MkII has a new driver that has rubber surrounds, which would make it last longer than foam ones. Although the MkI has a coated foam surround, which would make it last longer than non-coated ones.

Also, you can't compare one sub's 100w to another sub's 100w since you are comparing only one factor out of many like saying I have a 10" but the other is a 12". If that is the case, we will all be getting Sunfire's 2700w sub.

Basically the VTF series is going upmarket to separate the series from the new STF series (mainly in the glossy finish stakes for the moment). I will be most interested to see the actual results of the testing, but I imagine the gain in amplifier power (100w) should not have that much of an effect on back to back listening comparison's with the current VTF-2 and VTF-3. It will have some very "slight" output number advantages (great for number hunters) but we are not talking chalk and cheese differences here (IMO).

That being said I do understand that the VTF series will be (in the next update) getting some "significant" advances to help separate it from the STF series. At the moment the main difference between the STF-2 / VTF-2 MK2 and the STF-3 / VTF-3 MK2 is glossy paint and variable tune (I am not sure I buy the extra 50w story).

With the up coming two big features that Hsu has planned to be added (in the next VTF revision) the differences will certainly warrant the extra money for a lot more buyers. The STF series was alway going to become the no frills buy for those who like things with less buttons and gadgets but who's main concern is price. Once the MK2 VTF series starts shipping I think the equivalent STF series will go from strength to strength at the expense of the VTF series sales.

As for the current VTF-2, you certainly are not going to be rushing out to part with it, because although spec sheet marketing is alive and doing financially well.......who cares when your little 150w / 10" sounds and delivers like the VTF-2 can do !

I bet a lot of manufacturers wished they had a design that performed as well that they could sell for $799. For them to have one that performs as good as the VTF-2 and sells for $499 .... would be like winning the biggest lotto.
They make great door stop's and they make even the worse music even more horrid. I wonder if I could buy one to turn my daughter off Britney for life? Horrible Bob's little boom boxes..... that prove sales are not all about sound quality.
I would love a dollar for every-time one of my audio buddies thought I had at least a 12"/15" and 300/500watts. What got them even more baffled was when playing very detailed orchestral and deep organ. When they saw that it was ported .... they simply refused to believe that it was keeping up and yet there it was playing 20Hz notes (loudly). They sat on top of it to try to pick up all its faults, and all they could do was pick up a bit of port noise on the real low 16Hz notes (9Hz under the subs rating).

All in all for the money its a great subwoofer and one that has been my favorite value buy even though I also have its big brother the VTF-3 and a 1220 which are also super sounding subs.


Ddavidson

For the past few hours, I've tried to emulate a "learning curve" mode reading related sub threads here and the Hsu BB (thanks the to posting of it here).

The commentary has been impressive. (I've read and learned from a number of comments by Ddavidson, Cschang and a number of other quality responses and I truly appreciate the sharing). Overall, based on what I have read, Hsu seems like an extremely good consideration.

My room is 17'4" x 13x8.
I am planning on using HKavr7200 with BW 603 series 3s (to be ordered in the near future)

VTF2 or VTF3? Also, the STF 2, 3 question, plus the new MKII version at the CES.

I know that it is a matter of personal preference/hearing and experience, but based on my limited knowledge, would the new VTF-3 be overpowering -- or to quote the Goldylocks story, would the VTF2 be "just right!"

I know, decisions, decisions. Any additional thoughts?

additional question, Ddavidson mentions

-----
"That being said I do understand that the VTF series will be (in the next update) getting some "significant" advances to help separate it from the STF series. At the moment the main difference between the STF-2 / VTF-2 MK2 and the STF-3 / VTF-3 MK2 is glossy paint and variable tune (I am not sure I buy the extra 50w story). "
----

(forgive me, I haven't yet mastered how to include someone else's quote into mine other than copy/paste)

Due to my Mrs., the color black is the needed color. Is that the "black Piano" color they are talking about, Or is the black/vinyl still an option without the increase in price?

Thanks.

The VTF-2MKII will have the piano black finish, and as of now, that will be the only finish available for it.

The STF series uses the black vinyl.

Thanks for the color update

All MK2 VTF series have the furniture standard Gloss Piano Black. (other options may follow late in 04)

All STF series are black or silver vinyl (exc STF-3 which is black only)

All VTF MK2 series first start shipping in Feb 04 while as of Monday all STF series models are shipping. The best way to think about it is that the STF is the standard series and the VTF is the more deluxe series.

As far the best choice for your room and equipment all of them have a very similar neutral musical sound and all of them will give you good impact and dynamics for movies. Of course the higher up you go the more headroom you are buying so buy the one that suits your budget best and you will not be disappointed (no matter what model you get) I myself think the sweet spot is the STF-3 if you can fit such a big subwoofer in your room without upsetting your better half. You really can not go wrong. Of course if you really like Gloss Piano Black then you will need to wait till Feb for the new MK2 VTF's.


Ddavidson

Thanks again for all the help, guidance and commentary. It certainly has been an education.

Try not to laugh too laugh as I made actual size mock ups of the footprints made by the Hsu STF-3, STF2, VTF-2 based on the dimensions listed on their web site to see if and where it might fit. Stay tuned, the judges have not yet rendered their final decision, although it will be a toughee.

..Mark