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post #31 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by ssangste
That's because Bud outside of the US is really not that bad...... the reason: it is made by other breweries and it tastes virtually nothing like Budweiser here in the US!!.... I can actually drink a Bud when I am at home in the Maritimes on vacation... it's certainly not my first choice, but it is stomachable.... but I vomit after even *trying* to drink the same thing here in the US... vile dreck it is...

Easy there, trigger, you're about to put a burr under my saddle. I happen to work for the company that brews what you refer to as "vile dreck". FYI, Budweiser is brewed identical at all breweries throughout the United States and at their contract brewing partners throughout the world. The only difference being water source. I really don't take too kindly to you badmouthing such an established product in the beer industry. Budweiser here in the states has a very crisp, clean, refreshing taste to it, and while it may not meet everybody's taste preferences (similar to speakers), it doesn't deserve the criticism you just gave it. Budweiser is brewed under some of the tightest quality controls in manufacturing (brewing), and use some of the finest ingredients you'll find at any price point. You have no idea of the amount of quality that goes into every serving of Budweiser.

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but at the same time I can't stand around and do nothing.
post #32 of 1561
Is this Bose Anonymous?

Hello, everyone. My name is Larry, and there is a Bose-owner in my family. (All: "Hello, Larry!") Here is my story:

It all started last summer, when my sister, after watching a couple of movies here, decided she was ready to take the HT plunge. Naturally, she asked my advice. Since she lives within two hours' drive away, I offered to visit her the next weekend and escort her to a couple of good HT stores around her home.

Then, two days later, it happened; I got the dreaded phone call:

"Larry, I was at the mall today, and I saw the system I want! It's so cute, and the salesman offered me a great discount!"

"Let me guess: Bose?" I gasped.

"Yes, how did you know? Anyway, it's just what I want. They look cool, and they sound so good!"

"Jody, I'm coming down in three days; just wait for me."

"No, I have to get them tomorrow; the guy said it's a $3100 system, but he'll sell it to me for $1700 if I get the money by tomorrow. What a deal!"

I responded, "It's not even a $1700 system. Please wait for me!"

I went on to explain how they build a room around the speakers, and it won't sound anything like that in her room, etc., but it was no use; she was determined. *Heavy sigh!*

I went ahead with my visit that weekend, and endured a hot attic to install them in her family room, three along one wall (L, C, & R), and the other two on the opposire wall (LR & RR). Then ran the wires to the "bass" module, and then to the (the B&O wannabe) receiver.

"Okay, Sis, it's time to move the TV out of the corner."

"What do you mean, 'move the TV'? I like it in the corner." *Heavy sigh #2*

I tried, I really tried, but to no avail. She wouldn't let me move the TV to the space below the center speaker! So, it stays in the corner. The TV is left of the left speaker!

Okay, time to turn it on. Power on, adjust a thing or two, and stand back and listen. What do I hear next?

"Why doesn't it sound like yours?"

I cried!

I need a group hug!
post #33 of 1561
Quote:


Budweiser here in the states has a very crisp, clean, refreshing taste to it

Oh my lord, when I hear that I can't help but laugh.......I hear Chef Boy-Ar-Dee makes great pasta. Budweiser is shameful representation of what real beer is. They are the only company I know that can take the four natural beer ingredients added with rice and tannins(A/B's claim), and screw it up. Congrats on the marketing success though, to an uneducated public. Let em drink it, more good stuff for the people who know!

Quote:


You have no idea of the amount of quality that goes into every serving of Budweiser.

And neither does your drinkers cause they could care less...........

I'm gonna go enjoy a Czechvar, you know, the REAL Budweiser, before A/B's lawyers stole the name?

Sorry this thread is goin off.......I can't help myself either
post #34 of 1561
DJ_JonnyV wrote:

Quote:


I really don't take too kindly to you badmouthing such an established product in the beer industry.

While I personally can't stand Bose, do you suppose there might be someone out there who makes a living selling them or who just spent major money on "such an established product in the" speaker industry? Criticism is part and parcel of forum discussions. Call off the (Clydesdale) horses!
post #35 of 1561
The target Bose customer isn't trying to get the beswt sound for the money, or even trying to get a certain quality for the lowest price possible. They are merely trying to get this "surround sound" they have heard of in the easiest manner possible with the least visible intrusion on their room.

Most of them are willing to settle for almost any sound that betters what comes out of their TV set. Heck we even have some friends who had their Bose front and back speakers reversed and didn't even realize it until we pointed it out.

The other point folks need to recognize is that in the Bose factory stores the customer experiences about as pleasant an experience as I have ever encountered in many years of buying audio gear. None of the typical high-end BS like "what are your goals", no trashing of your current components, just a lot of enthusiastiac sales reps eager to show off something they truley believe in. I have a Bose store on my way to Monterey and stop in several times a year just to see what's up. Except for the sound it has always been enjoyable.

As an alternative the Rocket ELT system sells for only $900 and includes 5 speakers plus a subwoofer. Sounds better than any system anywhere near the price I've ever heard. And paired with a cheap Denon reciever it sounds way better than a $3,500 Bose system. With a 30 day money back deal from AV123 it's hard to go wrong.
post #36 of 1561
You know what, I started typing up a reply laying it on the line, but this forum is about audio/video gear, and I'm really not looking to get into a pissing contest with somebody because of their ignorance here.
post #37 of 1561
My father was more than eager to spend $1200 or so on a Bose 5.1 speaker set earlier this year, but I convinced him to hold off. And now he's having a hard time justifying spending $600-1000 for a non-Bose 5.1/6.1 speaker set. Go figure.

He, like so many others, equate Bose as the Lexus of speakers. Sometimes, price is not proportional to quality, which the mass market fails to understand.
post #38 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by jdm1
"...I must say that I have never heard a speaker system in my own home which could surpass, or even equal, the Bose 901 for overall realism of sound." -Julian Hirsch, Stereo Review

Actually your quoted reference is typical of reviews in that period. It speaks quite favorably of certain aspects of the 901, which differs greatly from the near-universal condemnation today -- that was my point.

Your quoted reference from lead ears proves my point.

JGH review specifies it is good for non-audiophiles:

The 901's veiling tendency will not appeal much to audio perfectionists with amplifiers that don't add hardness to the sound, and who can feed these clean, quiet program material. But it will be a definite boon to most hi-fi buffs, for it makes the speakers unusually tolerant of the hardness of typical solid-state electronica and the distortion from imperfectly tracked discs.
post #39 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by Larry Fine
Is this Bose Anonymous?

Hello, everyone. My name is Larry, and there is a Bose-owner in my family. (All: "Hello, Larry!") Here is my story:

It all started last summer, when my sister, after watching a couple of movies here, decided she was ready to take the HT plunge. Naturally, she asked my advice. Since she lives within two hours' drive away, I offered to visit her the next weekend and escort her to a couple of good HT stores around her home.

Then, two days later, it happened; I got the dreaded phone call:

"Larry, I was at the mall today, and I saw the system I want! It's so cute, and the salesman offered me a great discount!"

"Let me guess: Bose?" I gasped.

"Yes, how did you know? Anyway, it's just what I want. They look cool, and they sound so good!"

"Jody, I'm coming down in three days; just wait for me."

"No, I have to get them tomorrow; the guy said it's a $3100 system, but he'll sell it to me for $1700 if I get the money by tomorrow. What a deal!"

I responded, "It's not even a $1700 system. Please wait for me!"

I went on to explain how they build a room around the speakers, and it won't sound anything like that in her room, etc., but it was no use; she was determined. *Heavy sigh!*

I went ahead with my visit that weekend, and endured a hot attic to install them in her family room, three along one wall (L, C, & R), and the other two on the opposire wall (LR & RR). Then ran the wires to the "bass" module, and then to the (the B&O wannabe) receiver.

"Okay, Sis, it's time to move the TV out of the corner."

"What do you mean, 'move the TV'? I like it in the corner." *Heavy sigh #2*

I tried, I really tried, but to no avail. She wouldn't let me move the TV to the space below the center speaker! So, it stays in the corner. The TV is left of the left speaker!

Okay, time to turn it on. Power on, adjust a thing or two, and stand back and listen. What do I hear next?

"Why doesn't it sound like yours?"

I cried!

I need a group hug!
post #40 of 1561
im angry after hearin larrys story, somthin needs 2 be done about boze
post #41 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by im timmy
im angry after hearin larrys story, somthin needs 2 be done about boze

Good luck trying to organize a Bose boycott.
post #42 of 1561
Using the standard way of assessing quality and customer satisfaction such as JD Powers etc, Bose is ranked extremely high. If many of these people bought Bose due to marketing Hype, they cannot be happy with it forever. Looking at the top 100 innovations as reported by Popular science ( I think) , Bose's wave radio technology ranks pretty good. Bose's professional (auditoria) sound systems are exceptional. Look here for all the top of the line automobiles that use Bose. Their noice cancelling headphones seem to be the industry leader.

Hence, we must conclude that Bose is not bad because it is Bose as some people may want to picture. Many prefer Bose for their own reasons. For the life of me I cannot figure out why many prefer a certain brand of automobiles over others, even if numbers based logic shows otherwise.

Many bash Bose because it is the "norm" the "thing to do" in a forum like this. For many, the title "audiophile" does not fit unless you bash Bose.

Bose is overpriced and has a lot of market hype may be, but just plain bashing without logic is not corerct.

I bought a Bose pair 12 years ago, and I still use it. I have since joined forums such as this and learned alot and to look for specifics when buying HT stuff. I find better value with Brands such as Acoustic research etc and buy them instead of a Bose. If I'm able to get a pair of Bose 901 for a good deal, I'll stiil consider it in my choice.

peace!
post #43 of 1561
I have to admit, as much as I detest my old pair of 901s, that in-headrest speaker thing seems pretty damn cool.

That said, does anyone else find it ironic that they have an explanation of psychoacoustics on their webpage?
post #44 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by shankar
...Many bash Bose because it is the "norm" the "thing to do" in a forum like this. For many, the title "audiophile" does not fit unless you bash Bose...

Excellent points. You often see audiophiles complaining Bose is overpriced, over hyped, a marketing scam, that they charge $1000s for something that costs vastly less to make, etc, etc, etc.

It's ironic some of those same audiophiles strongly believe in ultra-quality, hugely expensive speaker cables. There's a stronger case that *those* are overpriced, over hyped, a marketing scam, etc, than for Bose. To those audiophiles directing potential Bose purchasers to more cost effective alternatives, I say follow your own advice and ditch your fancy speaker cables for 12 gauge zip wire
post #45 of 1561
shankar,

I see what you mean, but I do think most of the evidence you cited are just symptoms of the hype. (E.g., people who are convinced Bose is best.)

JD Powers, for example, is a survey. If someone thinks there Bose is great-- and it doesn't BREAK-- then it will get high marks on JD Powers.

Car companies choose Bose not because of how the system sounds, but because it is a brand people recognize as high quality.. again, due to hype.

I think the definition of a "con" has something to do with the people who are being ripped off NEVER EVEN KNOWING that they have been ripped off. Someone who has been successfully conned, therefore, is in some sense a satisfied customer.

Aaron
post #46 of 1561
I don't sell Bose. I don't own Bose. I've never recommended Bose. However...

I do respect Bose. They absolutely do have some damned intelligent engineers over there. They were the first to do a lot of different things in the speaker world. Things like making one stupid driver work in all kinds of configurations and uses (1st the 4", then the 2"). Making that same one stupid driver insanely reliable. Utilizing the efficiency of vented enclosures to the absolute maximum. Geez, who (outside of us speaker builders) even "heard" of "bandpass" subwoofers till that crappy little acoustimass thing showed up? Then all of a sudden, Bandpasses were everywhere. In the electronics side of things, they're not quite as successful, but still very competent. That dumb wave radio for example, that's absolutely no big deal acoustically speaking, but nobody was making a radio that sounded worth a crap, so Bose said, "why not?", and built a decent labrinth enclosure for a measely little speaker that costs about 50 cents. Presto! Bass! Stick a little real power behind it and it becomes fairly "strong" bass. And there you have it - instant sales and world wide recognition that they're the smartest damn company on the planet. Their remote control on their lifestyle systems works flawlessly (for what it is) too. People really like that because they sure can't figure their stupid remotes out for anything else they own. So, yes, Bose is waaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy over priced for what you get compared to others, but they earned it, folks.
post #47 of 1561
Why not bose?

Here's my $1592.00 system (including shipping):

HK AVR525
JBL S412PII mains
JBL S38II surrounds
JBL S38II back surrounds
JBL ScenterII center

Shop around. Maybe not Upper Crust to some but they suit me just fine, especially for the price.

Happy New Year to ALL!!!
post #48 of 1561
"No highs, no lows, gotta be BOSE" any more questions?
post #49 of 1561
Try the Logitech Z-680's in my humble opinion they smash anything Bose has to offer. I got mine for $260.00 off the internet. 500 watts with a "Real Sub" and similar in size as Bose.
Understand these will still not due for true audiophiles, but as a second system in the living room were the wife has more decorating control these fit nicely.

Review
http://gear.ign.com/articles/375/375816p1.html
post #50 of 1561
I'm just speaking from experience and I'll say it again that the Bose "Richbass Woofer" in my car absolutely blows. Bose should be ashame that they put their name on that speaker. I took that woofer apart and almost fell over laughing when I saw the joke of an amp and the cheap tiny paper speaker that were hiding behind the speaker case.

My friend's parents' Bose Lifestyle sounds good b/c of the surround set up. But where was the bass? You still have to buy another subwoofer on top of that Bass Module/amp that comes w/ the package. What a pity.

But I agree that Bose was the first to come up w/ an attractive sub + sat speaker package. Then again, RCA was one of the first to come up w/ a television set and they no longer rank in the upper echelon of TV brand names. Will Bose's reputation follow the same downward spiral? Time will tell.
post #51 of 1561
I was given a Bose AM10 as a hand-me-down. It was a step up from the crappy speakers that my old Sony HTIB was. I could hear a much improved sound on HT and an improvement on music as well. However, I now have a Denon 3803 that I purchased due to all the praise I've seen on this board. I currently don't have the capital to invest in a new speaker system. My girlfriend is moving in with me in about six months and she has a nice 15 inch JBL sub to add to the system. Since the Bose are not truely 5.1 can I simply add the JBL to the sub output and expect to still have decent timbre matching? Or does timbre matching not matter much in the lower frequencies? Is there anything I could do to the Acoustimass module to eek out more bass - like stuffing the enclosure behind the speaker with foam? I guess what I'm asking is are there any mods I can do with the system to try to improve it until I can save up the funds to purchase the Paradigms that I really want? I already shortened the 10 miles of speaker cable that came with the system and used MC banana plugs into the 3803.

BTW - I've used the Avia disc to check the frequency response and the biggest hole occurs at about 200Hz. By increasing the bass on the 3803 I was able to get the volume back up at about 120Hz and down to about 35 then the sound output dimishes quickly. I don't have a SPL meter yet and was hoping to get one for Christmas but my girlfriend got me a 9800 ATI video card instead. Bless her heart. Once I get it I will take some measurements before and after adding the sub and I will post the results.

Thanks for your patience with yet another newbie.
post #52 of 1561
Danho, you've got one cool g/f! She got a 15" sub? Damn, so size is indeed everything as far as women's desires go.

Anyway, I don't think you should have a problem to mix-and-match a non-Bose subwoofer (your g/f's JBL) w/ your Bose "5.05" system. Bass is non-directional, esp. at that low frequency (below a couple hundred hertz), so as long as you have the JBL hooked up to the subwoofer part of the receiver, you should be good to go. Just make sure you set your crossover freq. on the JBL to be pretty low, so that the Bose sub can do some work. Or maybe you'd be better off trying to bypass the Acoustimass module altogether (and set the crossover pretty high, like above 100 Hz). LOL!
post #53 of 1561
I don't know where she got the big sub. I think her ex talked her into it. He must of been compensating for something ! LOL! She's got that sub plugged into her Sony receiver (I hate Sony) with some big ass no name brand towers that sound horrible. I think they were bought out of the back of a van in a dark alley.

Would it work okay to hook the Bose speakers up directly to the receiver instead of going through the module? I thought I read somewhere that was not a good idea.

When I do get my hands on her sub (uh, no pun intended!) do I use the crossover on the sub or on the 3803? Which crossover is usually better? Is a steep curve better than a shallow one for HT? I am new to home audio but I used to be a car audio guy over 10 years ago when it was still pretty new. Did lots of installs and tweaking then with a RTA. I knew about bandpass enclosures in that environment a long time ago. I never thought about using it in home audio though. At that time I used my Hitachi 8-track home stereo to hook up my mono Electrohome VCR. I thought that rocked! HA!
post #54 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by AGE
shankar,

I see what you mean, but I do think most of the evidence you cited are just symptoms of the hype. (E.g., people who are convinced Bose is best.)

JD Powers, for example, is a survey. If someone thinks there Bose is great-- and it doesn't BREAK-- then it will get high marks on JD Powers.

Car companies choose Bose not because of how the system sounds, but because it is a brand people recognize as high quality.. again, due to hype.

Aaron, I tend to agree with you here. Many rate Japanese vehicles "higher" than American vehicles, even though they get more for the money with the big 3. The reason is exactly what you said. They feel they made a good purchase and the vehicles are reliable. Same could apply to Bose. Highly innovative, looks cool and works forever. What else does an average consumer want? That is not just pure hype. Hype can only let you survive for a small time. Hype sells the made for TV infomercial items such as exercise machines and the pasta cooker, while they are the only ones in the market . On a highly priced item, hype can not be the only reason.

Quote:


I think the definition of a "con" has something to do with the people who are being ripped off NEVER EVEN KNOWING that they have been ripped off. Someone who has been successfully conned, therefore, is in some sense a satisfied customer.

Again, agreed. However, I wonder, how many of the Klipsch, Axiom, SVS, Monster users would fall into this category??
post #55 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by Danho
I don't know where she got the big sub. I think her ex talked her into it. He must of been compensating for something ! LOL! She's got that sub plugged into her Sony receiver (I hate Sony) with some big ass no name brand towers that sound horrible. I think they were bought out of the back of a van in a dark alley.

Would it work okay to hook the Bose speakers up directly to the receiver instead of going through the module? I thought I read somewhere that was not a good idea.

When I do get my hands on her sub (uh, no pun intended!) do I use the crossover on the sub or on the 3803? Which crossover is usually better? Is a steep curve better than a shallow one for HT? I am new to home audio but I used to be a car audio guy over 10 years ago when it was still pretty new. Did lots of installs and tweaking then with a RTA. I knew about bandpass enclosures in that environment a long time ago. I never thought about using it in home audio though. At that time I used my Hitachi 8-track home stereo to hook up my mono Electrohome VCR. I thought that rocked! HA!

It wasn't a White Van was it? Ha ha.

From what I've been told do not hook up bose speakers directly to the amp because you then remove the crossover from the sytem and they will sound like crap. I don't know but that's what I've been told when I said go for it! hee hee.

Definitely use the crossover on the amp instead of the sub, if the sub has a switch to bypass the crossover, do it.
post #56 of 1561
Looking for Bose alternatives. The Secrets of Home Theatre and HIFI reviews have a HTIB roudup and comparison. Any of these would be better than Bose for less money

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...o-12-2003.html

Look at the first system. Onkyo DD ES, DTS EX 6.1 receiver 100 wpc x 6 with DVD player, 6 speakers and sub $800. Each speaker has 2 x 5.25 inch drivers and 1 x 1 inch tweeter.
post #57 of 1561
Actually most of the "Bose" car systems aren't Bose at all. My 2002 Nissan Maxima had a "Bose" system. Upon replacing the horrid sounding thing, I noticed that "Clarion" was the manufacturer of the radio andall of the speakers with exception of the "Bose" subwoofer which just sounded awefull.
post #58 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by virus
Actually most of the "Bose" car systems aren't Bose at all. My 2002 Nissan Maxima had a "Bose" system. Upon replacing the horrid sounding thing, I noticed that "Clarion" was the manufacturer of the radio andall of the speakers with exception of the "Bose" subwoofer which just sounded awefull.

I've been informed by members in my car club that my alleged Bose head unit is also Clarion. But I know for sure that my car's stock "woofer' (or should I call it a "wimper"?) is Bose. And it blows.

The Clarion/Bose head unit, while it looks nice and integrates nicely w/ the rest of the dash, is extremely underpowered. And although it has an in-dash 6-disc CD changer, which is convenient, the friggin thing doesn't even display track time of a CD!
post #59 of 1561
Clarion and Delco make stock car stereos and small amps. Rockford Fosgate outsources some of their stuff to Delco. The electronics produced by both of these companies are durable and satisfactory, but the speakers are not as good as what the aftermarket offers. The Lexus system is an exception.
post #60 of 1561
I've got a new Mustang GT and it has the Mach 460 in it. I think it is made by Alpine. It sounds pretty good for a stocker. Actually it is the best sounding stock stereo I've ever heard, and that includes my boss's exotic cars (M-B, Jag, etc.). The only downfall the Mach has is that the upper frequencies are kind of weak. I want to replace the fronts with a better separate set; I'm considering Focals as I really like their sound. I might add a small sub and that is about it. I don't want to dump too much into the car as I am saving for new home speakers!
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