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Why Not Bose? - Page 3  

post #61 of 1561
True, Alpine still makes some head units for stock setups. Have you tried Parts Express for raw drivers? You could match some Scan-Speak tweets and some Dynavox mids and get their crossover network, add a Eminence sub and a Lanzar amp, or dual amps (HP/LP). They also have stiffening caps for cheap.
post #62 of 1561
Thanks for the tip. I'll definately check them out when the time comes to do the upgrade. Maybe in early spring before the g/f moves in and watches what I spend my money on.
post #63 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by hometheaterguy
Clarion and Delco make stock car stereos and small amps. Rockford Fosgate outsources some of their stuff to Delco. The electronics produced by both of these companies are durable and satisfactory, but the speakers are not as good as what the aftermarket offers.

Rockford Fosgate now OEM's quite a few radios for Nissan vehicles. But the majority of OEM radios are Delco and Clarion.

Quote:


The Lexus system is an exception.


Volvo's with factory Dynaudio systems are also an exception.
post #64 of 1561
I lost respect for Bose during the time I owned my 2002 Acura TL. It is a Bose system with a weak-assed bass module. It was way too bright, and low frequencies were muddy. When I recently looked at speakers, I had sense to stay away from Bose. After auditioning for 3 months, I instead bought Onix Rocket ELTs and am impressed with this sub-$1k system.
post #65 of 1561
Danho, I read on Edmunds that the Mach 460 stereo system that comes w/ some Mustangs got rated as top 5 of all stock car systems.
post #66 of 1561
Rockford Fosgate now OEM's quite a few radios for Nissan vehicles. But the majority of OEM radios are Delco and Clarion.

Take out a RF radio, it says Delco on it. Delco makes Rockford decks. How do I know? I worked for Rockford Corp. for years.
post #67 of 1561
I will tell you now that I just made a Bose recommendation......

Here's the scoop. My uncle is getting close to being "hard of hearing"...(as the rest of us, sitting with our SPL meters, scratch our heads). His main concern was being able to hear the dialog. I suppose when you don't hear much; bullet jackets dropping to the right rear is not that important.

After a little input from my aunt...small speakers were a must. I think the quote was "you can hear 'em if you need to, but them things better not get in my way".

Anyways....after taking him to several B&M high-fi, and the "nation wides"; He thought the Bose sounded best to him.....I couldn't disagree.

So I got him an Accoustimass 5.1, a Panasonic xr-45 receiver, and a Panasonic s55s DVD player. He already had a Panasonic VCR and Panasonic 32" tv...so the remote was extremely easy to set up and operate.

The best thing I can say about the system is that my uncle liked it. I think it was good enough for movies...and the dialog was very clear.

I tried setting the system up with an RC spl meter and my test tones, but it was hopeless. I eventually set the system to where he could hear his favorite movie "The Outlaw, Josse Wales" the way he wanted to.

I tried to listen to some music through the system; it made me want to hear my Paradigms......

I will say that my uncle is VERY satisfied. He can hear dialog well, the speakers are small enough to keep my aunt from getting "fired-up", and "Paul Harvey is alway talking about them".

Other than that, I have no experience with Bose
post #68 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by coach
The best thing I can say about the system is that my uncle liked it. I think it was good enough for movies...and the dialog was very clear.

I will say that my uncle is VERY satisfied. He can hear dialog well, the speakers are small enough to keep my aunt from getting "fired-up", and "Paul Harvey is alway talking about them".

And if that's what makes your aunt and uncle happy, what's wrong with that?

I've seen so many "audio-phools" buy oodles of impressive brand names and connector jewelry and wacky cable gizmos so they can pound their own chests. No bearing on whether it really sounded good or not, just a collection of the best they can buy for ownership's sake.

Even semi-serious types usually buy something they feel good about, then stuff it into a room where the simple physics of acoustics cannot be overcome. Then brag about it how awesome it is.

I've had opportunity to listen to music in mastering studios, under well controlled conditions and know what it is supposed to sound like. Many "audiophiles" systems are the aural equivalent of over-sharpened, over-color-temped, red-pushed video displays. Yet to a man, they'll brag of "accuracy" and "detail" when presenting NOTHING of the sort. But that's what makes them happy, so be it.

Consider the Lowther and S.E.T. crowd. They spend WAY more than any Bose system for about 6 watts of power and single full range horn-loaded driver. Completely inferior by any measure, but admittedly it can be a seductive listening experience. Again, if that's what makes you happy, so be it!

In reality, it just doesn't matter. Get what makes you happy and fits your lifestyle and be happy with it.
post #69 of 1561
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Larry Fine
Is this Bose Anonymous?

Hello, everyone. My name is Larry, and there is a Bose-owner in my family. (All: "Hello, Larry!") Here is my story:

It all started last summer, when my sister, after watching a couple of movies here, decided she was ready to take the HT plunge. Naturally, she asked my advice. Since she lives within two hours' drive away, I offered to visit her the next weekend and escort her to a couple of good HT stores around her home.

Then, two days later, it happened; I got the dreaded phone call:

"Larry, I was at the mall today, and I saw the system I want! It's so cute, and the salesman offered me a great discount!"

"Let me guess: Bose?" I gasped.

"Yes, how did you know? Anyway, it's just what I want. They look cool, and they sound so good!"

"Jody, I'm coming down in three days; just wait for me."

"No, I have to get them tomorrow; the guy said it's a $3100 system, but he'll sell it to me for $1700 if I get the money by tomorrow. What a deal!"

I responded, "It's not even a $1700 system. Please wait for me!"

I went on to explain how they build a room around the speakers, and it won't sound anything like that in her room, etc., but it was no use; she was determined. *Heavy sigh!*

I went ahead with my visit that weekend, and endured a hot attic to install them in her family room, three along one wall (L, C, & R), and the other two on the opposire wall (LR & RR). Then ran the wires to the "bass" module, and then to the (the B&O wannabe) receiver.

"Okay, Sis, it's time to move the TV out of the corner."

"What do you mean, 'move the TV'? I like it in the corner." *Heavy sigh #2*

I tried, I really tried, but to no avail. She wouldn't let me move the TV to the space below the center speaker! So, it stays in the corner. The TV is left of the left speaker!

Okay, time to turn it on. Power on, adjust a thing or two, and stand back and listen. What do I hear next?

"Why doesn't it sound like yours?"

I cried!

I need a group hug!


Too Funny!!!
post #70 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by coach
I will tell you now that I just made a Bose recommendation......

Here's the scoop. My uncle is getting close to being "hard of hearing"...


A very interesting point. I was starting to think along the same lines during a conversation with my visiting, 69-year old dad.

After about a week of movies and music on our budget, mid-level HT system, I asked him what he thought about it. Of course he liked it but he said was probably missing much of the sound system's benefit due to his heavy reliance on hearing aids. It occurred to me that his situation would fit very will with a low-end audio solution.

I imagine one could find some decent bargains on Bose speakers, buying from people who have developed an ear for good sound. That could a guilt-free resell solution for those of use with Bose components hidden in our closets.
post #71 of 1561
coach, did you have your uncle to try listen to some lower end HTS speakers that might also have a good enough center to hear dialog? Something like Polk 6700, Infinity Entra Point 5, etc., which would be a lot cheaper than Bose and might sound "good enough" as well.
post #72 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by coach
My uncle is getting close to being "hard of hearing"...

I will say that my uncle is VERY satisfied.

This about says it all!

(No offense, by the way, I'm glad your uncle likes his system. But you have to admit there's a bit of irony here that this is Bose's only real positive testimonial in this thread...)
post #73 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by AGE
This about says it all!

(

I read it as Bose is the only speaker system that worked well for a person with a hearing disability??
post #74 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by shankar
I read it as Bose is the only speaker system that worked well for a person with a hearing disability??

You're right, and I know that was the point of the story, and there IS something to be said for that-- I just thought it was mildly ironic that the closest thing to a personal testimonial on Bose's behalf came from someone who was hard of hearing. I am pretty sure all the other pro-Bose arguments in this thread never go beyond the theoretical level into the actual "I like the way they sound" level.

It reminds me of a friend's Volvo testimonial: "While she was driving her Volvo, my great aunt had a stroke because she had a brain tumor, and went off the road and crashed into a building-- and she was fine, came out without a scratch!"

Except, of course, for the cancer and the stroke...

Does the fact that I find this amusing make me a horrible person? (I don't find her illnesses amusing, just that this story was used a s a testimonial for how safe Volvo's are...)
post #75 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by neuronbob
I lost respect for Bose during the time I owned my 2002 Acura TL. It is a Bose system with a weak-assed bass module. It was way too bright, and low frequencies were muddy. When I recently looked at speakers, I had sense to stay away from Bose. After auditioning for 3 months, I instead bought Onix Rocket ELTs and am impressed with this sub-$1k system.

The Bose setup in the Acura was almost identical to the 2k2/2k3 Maxima's. It was a Clarion system with a Bose sub module.
post #76 of 1561
Might as well post this link.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

The guy also offers a decent list of alternatives for the $$.
post #77 of 1561
For my money, and if you are keeping a car stereo stock the Monsoon sound system put into Pontiac GrandAm GTs, Grand Prixs, and Firebird/Trans Ams were the best sounding stock radios I've heard. They destroyed the Infinity & Bose & others that I've heard in just about any car. I should know, I've got both a 2001 GAGT and 2002 TransAm.

The New Blaupunkt system in the new GTOs is unbelieveable...it's super clear and very accurate, I was highly impressed, even turning it up very loud it never missed a beat and still sounded very good. Course I was having more fun test driving the thing.

Just my $.02
post #78 of 1561
Long time lurker recent poster. Just offering my $0.02. I have to start by saying that I am more informed on computers and the visual side. About 4 yrs ago I bought the low end bose acoustimass cube system....just single cubes with a passive subwoofer. I have heard high end stuff before but always in some store or professional HT setup. I have to say that I love the way the bose sound. They are clear. Imaging is good. And the bass is very pronounced without fluttering. I am SURE there are much better speakers out there if I were to piecmeal everything together and if I were to try performance tests and whatever. If the cats cant tell if the sound is from a speaker while in DTS then in my opinion they are as close to life as you can get.

For my use they shake the windows just fine. Now when I have my IMAX installed I may think about other options but for now with my MEASLY 50" HDTV I think Bose does a fine job. And I bought the system for $500. This same system is still available sub 500. Again all IMHO. Thanks
Rob
post #79 of 1561
RobBug, no one will argue with your preferences. What matters to you is yours alone to answer. If you've found your sonic Nirvana, more power to ya. We just want people to make the choices that are right for them and not regret them later. Sounds like you are there.

What irks most of us is that beginners could easliy get mid-level 5.1 performance ("IMAX-quality" in your book, "very good to excellent" in my book) for less than a full Bose system price.
post #80 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by nuke
Consider the Lowther and S.E.T. crowd. They spend WAY more than any Bose system for about 6 watts of power and single full range horn-loaded driver. Completely inferior by any measure, ...


WRONG

Unless your sole measure of quality is dangerous SPL.
post #81 of 1561
My biggest gripe with the acustimess system is the lack of bass management and the inability to set delay and levels of the individual speakers. Anyone who has invested $49 on a SPL meter and the time to setup their system knows what I'm talking about. Maybe this is possible with lifestyle system I've messed with it.
post #82 of 1561
Quote:


Originally posted by jdm1
5 Mirage Omnisat Micros, combined with Hsu STF-2 sub. See http://www.miragespeakers.com/omnistat_mic.shtml. Pro: looks very cool, pretty good sound, very small package. Con: sound possibly not as good as Axiom (but still better than Bose).

Interesting, I'd never heard of these but they look interesting. There is a dealer in my area, I'll check them out.

This thread has brought out an amazing amount of Bose bashing. It may be well deserved, but, I think the initial thought behind this thread was, 'how can I get a good sounding HT system that doesn't impose astetically on my room' (at least that's my concern, so, maybe I read the original post through glasses of that tint).

Anyway, what do the audio experts here think of in-wall or in-ceiling systems? Are the Klipsch RCW-5 / RCR-5 plus a sub and center channel a reasonable solution? Are there other "invisible" speaker solutions you'd suggest?
post #83 of 1561
There are many excellet in wall speakers made by excellent manufacturers like Klipsch. The only two speakers that I would not put in a wall are the center channel and a subwoofer. Subwoofes can be hidden in some situations. Just don't ask a band pass bass module to do the work of a real subwoofer.

Bill
post #84 of 1561
I have to share my Bose story.

I grew up with my dad's HT, which consisted of a 27" TV, a Kenwood stereo amp, and a pair of Bose 301's. Few years ago he decided it was time to step up to a 5.1 system. My friend has a Lifestyle system and I thought it sounded pretty good (compared to our stereo setup anyway...and BTW he had a 15" Cerwin Vega sub along with his "Bass unit"). So me and my dad went to Circuit City to check out some systems. We were looking at a Bose Lifestyle system (which for some reason was not in the speaker room, but in the main aisle, with the rear speakers cantelievered over your head above the aisle...you know the display I'm talking about), and we though it was pretty good. Then one of the salesmen walks up to us and says "Sounds pretty good huh?"

"yeah...its pretty good...my friend has on of these systems and it sounds cool" I responded. Then the salesman did something that probbably would have made Bose's marketing team sh** a brick if they saw it. He said "watch this", and took the Bose brochure that was next to the display, and used it to cover the port hole on the bass unit. Suddenly all the sound disappeared, and all we heard was nasty tinny garbage sound.

Needless to say, we ended up "building" our own system.

BTW...the "Bose Annonymous" story made me LOL

-Scot
post #85 of 1561
Good one, Scot. Glad you built your own system ... better sound for less $.
post #86 of 1561
All this talk about in-car Bose systems has been a refreshing change of pace. I find it interesting how everybody thinks the factory Bose units have no bass. The Acura 3.2CL Type-S uses a 6 speaker Bose with no separate sub. It has way, way, too much bass. It is absolutely awful sounding bass...... muddy with no definition, but there's is so much of it! It's overbearing and is the only thing you can hear in the music. I'll admit the separation is quite good for a car system, and the primary vocals off the tweeters somehow manage to cut through the mud-sea of bass. At the lowest volume setting all you can hear is "bbbboooonnnnggggggg" sounds coming from the back of the car though.........
post #87 of 1561
I think one of the biggest reasons audiophiles don't respect Bose is because they (Bose) doesn't care AT ALL about sound quality or accurate music reproduction. Period. Profits first, quality second.
post #88 of 1561
I used to sell audio equipment, I worked for two different stores while I was in college. The first sold Bose. That's partially why I quit and went to work at a better place that didn't sell Bose.

Aside from all of the stories about how bad they sound, we've heard enough, I'll tell you why I don't like them from a salesman point of view. First, they fix their prices. That's why you never see sales anywhere, unless Bose lifts the restrictions on a certain model (usually because they want to clear stock because they're about to come out with something new), then everyone has sales. IMHO, price fixing is immoral and should be illegal. I don't know why retailers stand for it. Second, Bose wants to control their prices so tightly, they won't even allow the store to sell customer returns or demo units at discounts (unless again, it's a discontinued model). If a customer returned a set of Bose because...(they didn't like them, wife said no, didn't need them, second thoughts about spending all of that money, etc...), we couldn't turn around and sell it to a customer at a discount. Third, Bose required to be set up seperate from other brands of speakers, so you couldn't do AB comparisons and really get customers the right speakers for their listening habits. Fourth, people come in brainwashed from all of the advertising. Some sales people like this, as it provides for quick, easy, commission-boosting sales. However, I couldn't handle selling people crap without at least attempting to show something different (I would try to step customers down in price to something better, and sometimes they wouldn't have it!!!). Fifth, they're poorly built, many customer returns and hassles over blown speakers, etc. Sixth, I'd always have to handle tons of phone calls after selling a set of Bose ("why doesn't my system sound as good as in the store?" "Can you help me verify I have everything situated/hooked up correctly?") An after sales nightmare. After awhile, I basically refused to sell Bose speakers. Maybe I was being unreasonable for a salesman, but I'd had it with their crappy products and all of the headaches that occured after the sales. I flat out refused to ring one customer up on a set of acoustimass speakers. They complained to my manager, he wrote me up, I went out and applied to a real store, and the rest is history.

One other note...people keep citing "WAF" and "ease of setup" and "convenient all in one system" as reasons for buying Bose. Sorry, but in my humble opinion, that's a bunch of BS to justify having already thrown your money away on garbage. Bose was the first company to take the satellite/sub concept and run mainstream with it, so they get that recognition (again, great marketing on their part, but that's about it). Over the last 7 years or so, several companies have made just as small, convenient, good looking systems for comparable prices to the lifestyle systems that sound MUCH better. People buy Bose for one of two reasons: 1, for the same reason they buy clothes with designer names printed all freaking over them, like Tommy Jeans or what not. It's all about having that big brand name in the house that says "I'm not cheap, I paid for the best." Nothing more. Either that, or they are so brainwashed and closed minded that they absolutely refuse to even consider anything else. After all, if Mr. (sellout) Paul Harvey says they are the best, then it must be. No two bit college student wearing a cheap polo shirt is going to tell me otherwise.

Sorry if I insulted anyone, but that's my honest opinion. If you buy Bose, it's because you fall into one of those two categories.
post #89 of 1561
My most recent Bose observation.......

I just got back from a business trip to Dallas. One night, my associates and I went to a new 'gentleman's club' called Baby Doll's. Anyone who has been to such places in Dallas knows the high end club competition is fierce.
One of the 'dancers' extolling on the virtues of the new club exclaimed...."look at our sound system...it cost over a half million dollars!"

I look up and all I see is Bose after Bose after Bose. I mean dozens of 901s, inwall units, sonic tubes that must have been 20 feet long and all kinds of other specialty speakers I've never seen before.

Bottom line, a half million dollars and the sound still sucked. Even the bass was terrible. Go figure.
post #90 of 1561
Quote:
Originally posted by DJ_JonnyV
Budweiser here in the states has a very crisp, clean, refreshing taste to it,

I think you just described water, not beer, which is the problem with Budweiser.

Beer is supposed to have body, full flavor, and a certain degree of bitterness derived from hops. None of these attributes can be described as you just described a Budweiser, merely underscoring the point.

Whcih also serves to further the comparison of Budweiser to Bose. Budweiser has marketed its "attributes" as positives to the masses, convincing many that it is a good beer - when in fact it cannot be compared in any way to real beer. This is very similiar, to the way that Bose has marketed its Acoustimass system, highlighting aspects seem appealing to the masses, when the attributes which really matter to good sound are entirely absent.
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