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Roanoke, VA / Bluefield, WV - HDTV - Page 185

post #5521 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleye1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

WSET's UHF signal had been on 34. Right in between your two guesses.

The translator was definitely digital in January if it isn't now. I tuned it on the TV in the shop when I visited WDBJ back in January and it was definitely there.

Is your antenna low-VHF capable? How does it handle WBRA 15-1?

- Trip

I was getting WBRA fairly well OTA. It was a little blocky at times but I'd say it was watchable. I wasn't picking up anything at 5.1 though. That's what made me wonder if it was even functioning the other day when I was working on it. The antenna I was trying was an 5.5 footer (Channel Master CM3016) though. Kind of small. I was thinking about digging out that 14' antenna (I still have it in storage) and trying it, but before I go to all that trouble I want to be sure there's something to pick up.

So how directional are these translators? Could it be that it's pointed at the NRV and that's why I can't pick it up in Hollins? Of course that would mean the signal strength maps are completely wrong, so I guess that really doesn't make sense.

I'm planning on going over to the Hidden Valley area tomorrow with my handheld HDTV and see if I can pick it up. I wish the dinky little TV had a signal strength meter. I could check the signal at different points on the way back from the transmitter to see how it drops off. But my main goal is to see if the signal even exists so it will do fine for that!
post #5522 of 6045
Thread Starter 
It's aimed right at Roanoke. Looks like there should be signal in Hollins; not sure why you're not seeing it.

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...&appid=1299586

It's also in a bad place to be aimed at the NRV due to terrain blockage, and nobody can see it in the NRV. I definitely saw it at WDBJ's studio not that far from Hollins.

- Trip
post #5523 of 6045
So the other day I punched in the coordinates of the W05AA antenna site into my GPS and took my little HDTV and went in search of a signal. I parked in a shopping center lot in the Hidden Valley area that I believed to be near the antenna site and tried to pick up 5.1. No luck. And I think I could even see the tower (but I'm not 100% sure on that - it was late in the day and almost dark.)

My little TV is crappy though. For one thing, it only scans. It doesn't have a signal meter and won't allow you to put in a specific channel. You point the antenna in a certain (hopefully correct) direction, start a scan, and either pick up the channel or you don't.

So I'm going to have to retool. I think I'm going to attach my CM3016 to the roof of my minivan, hook that into a ATSC tuner I have (which does have a signal strength meter), and attach that to a TV. Then I'll just drive the whole thing around that mountain until I get a signal! Hah, I'll let you know if I get pulled over for questioning!

Or what would be better is if someone could verify me that they are currently picking up WSET programming on channel 5.1. The whole idea for me is that if I think I have a reasonable chance to pick up a signal I'll get up on the roof of the house and re-mount the 14' antenna I have and try that. I really want to verify that there is a signal to be picked up first though. It's cold and windy up on that roof!
post #5524 of 6045
Boy you sure picked a good time of year to start this project!!

Have you tried calling/emailing WSET? That might be a good place to start...
post #5525 of 6045
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19657839

I find the moving color "background" on WDBJ very distracting...
post #5526 of 6045
I was looking at LCD TV's at WalMart the other day and ran into a friend shopping for their first big screen. I asked what they were using for a source of programing. He said they were on Direct TV and had called them about the Free HD programing. The tech came out and said they could not get it because the satellite that handles it was being blocked by some trees. Apparently regular programming is on a higher satellite where the HD stuff is on a lower one. They advertise free HD but the only way to get it is on a different satellite and the receiver has to pointed at a lower point. Is this true? The trees do not belong to him so there is not much he can do for now. Saying HD is free is just a come on.
post #5527 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnybuck View Post

I was looking at LCD TV's at WalMart the other day and ran into a friend shopping for their first big screen. I asked what they were using for a source of programing. He said they were on Direct TV and had called them about the Free HD programing. The tech came out and said they could not get it because the satellite that handles it was being blocked by some trees. Apparently regular programming is on a higher satellite where the HD stuff is on a lower one. They advertise free HD but the only way to get it is on a different satellite and the receiver has to pointed at a lower point. Is this true? The trees do not belong to him so there is not much he can do for now. Saying HD is free is just a come on.

Ive had Directv for over 15 years and there HD programming for about 4 years now.The satellites are in the KA, KU Frequency The HD is in I think a Higher Frequency not higher in the sky
the sd comes from the 101 and 110 and 119 degrees range and the HD comes from the 99 and 103 degrees range so he maybe be able to recieve the SD programming but the trees are blocking the 99 and 103 range where the Hd comes from.And the thing about the free HD is HD is added to any package for $10.00 a month extra but if you signup for autopay you get HD Free because you bill is automatically deducted monthly from say your checking account.I have a grandfathered package where my HD and DVR service was included in my base package before last year when the packages were changed.So I actually dont pay for HD or DVR service at all.Hope this helps to answer you question.
post #5528 of 6045
Thread Starter 
I'm home again for Winter Break and figured I would post some numbers from my spectrum analyzer.

Station MER Power
WDBJ-18 29.0 dB -10.4 dBmV
WSLS-30 29.1 dB -21.4 dBmV
WSET-13 31.4 dB -12.1 dBmV
WBRA-03 24.7 dB -6.0 dBmV
WWCW-20 35.1 dB +0.2 dBmV
WFXR-17 33.9 dB -8.6 dBmV
WPXR-36 25.6 dB -22.6 dBmV

I'd like to know why my MER is down so much on WSLS, perhaps it's something on my end, but otherwise these numbers seem about right to me. Not much change from the summer.

- Trip
post #5529 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I'm home again for Winter Break and figured I would post some numbers from my spectrum analyzer.

Numb3rs? Just mere digits?!? C'mon Trip...we also want PICTURES! :-)

How 'bout pressing the SPECT button for some Roanoke-Lynchburg waveform pr0n?
post #5530 of 6045
Do you have before and after SPEC screen shots of WSLS? If so, compare the power levels and the background noise levels. If the power levels are similar but your MER (digital equivalent of SNR) reading has decreased, an increase in background noise is the usual explanation.

You can also look at the constellation plot for that station on your 1456 and see if there are additional demodulation errors than previously recorded.
post #5531 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I'm home again for Winter Break and figured I would post some numbers from my spectrum analyzer.
- Trip

What range would you expect for MER and what number would you expect for WSLS? How would ghosting -- aaa multi-path -- affect the numbers?

I note that WDBJ is not at 1 Mega watt like WSLS. Is that a FCC restriction?

Finally -- Happy holidays everyone.
post #5532 of 6045
Thread Starter 
Well, WSLS used to max me out. I was seeing 29.1 dB last night, when normally it used to read >36 dB, even though the signal was weaker in terms of raw power than the others in the market.

I've generally found the constellation to be pretty useless on the 1456CM because the resolution on the screen is too low. I do have a before picture of the local stations from a year or so ago:

http://www.rabbitears.info/specan/

Scroll down to "Home." WSLS looks pretty much the same in terms of shape, but the signal is down to about -28 or -30 dBmV. None of the other signals are down that much; WPXR and WSET have actually gone up slightly, the rest are pretty much the same.

I just reran numbers now:

Station MER Power
WDBJ-18 28.7 dB -10.4 dBmV
WSLS-30 30.8 dB -19.0 dBmV
WSET-13 30.6 dB -14.5 dBmV
WBRA-03 23.4 dB -7.4 dBmV
WWCW-20 34.9 dB +0.5 dBmV
WFXR-17 34.4 dB -7.7 dBmV
WPXR-36 26.9 dB -21.3 dBmV

WDBJ got as much power as the FCC would let them have. It was an interference problem, though at the moment I can't remember if it was WFXB in Myrtle Beach that was the problem or someone else.

Maybe I'll pull out my serial cable for some pictures a little later.

- Trip
post #5533 of 6045
Thread Starter 
Whoa, when did WSET add 5.1 audio? The station that never even went stereo in analog is now reporting 5.1 audio in TSReader! Is anyone else seeing (hearing) this?

EDIT: I just checked; my TSReader capture from August also showed 5.1 audio. I must have seriously overlooked this one.

- Trip
post #5534 of 6045
Thread Starter 
New pics with the spectrum analyzer: http://www.rabbitears.info/specan/home

For reference, here's what's predicted: http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...dBmV&height=44

- Trip
post #5535 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

New pics with the spectrum analyzer: http://www.rabbitears.info/specan/home

Great work, Trip! The side-by-side comparison is really nice.
post #5536 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

New pics with the spectrum analyzer: http://www.rabbitears.info/specan/home

For reference, here's what's predicted: http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...dBmV&height=44

- Trip

This comes from the Winegard 8800?
post #5537 of 6045
Thread Starter 
Winegard PR-8800 for UHF and AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 for VHF.

- Trip
post #5538 of 6045
Trip, you are the most knowlegeable person I know of when it comes to broadcast signals besides foxeng, any ideas why I can get WLFL 27 and WRDC 28 from Garner, but none of the others in the winter? Right now I am watching WLFL just fine, and WRDC is just before working, and not a sign of the others? This time of the year every year it is the same thing... Just as soon as it gets dark, I get WLFL. WRDC will come in probably by 8 PM, but again, none of the others out of that area... In the summer months, WLFL is the hardest to get.
post #5539 of 6045
Anybody having any issues with their TVPal and Channel 7? When changing channels all is normal until I get to 7-2 and 7-1, it takes several seconds or longer for it to tune in, very abnormal. I did a power down with all equipment, waited a few minutes, cranked everything back but didn't help. Wonder what is up?
post #5540 of 6045
Yes -- 7.x comes and goes. Been happening the last two days. I think I have seen it on the TV too but not as often. RF is there (lock-26 dB-70%) but no data...
post #5541 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Yes -- 7.x comes and goes. Been happening the last two days. I think I have seen it on the TV too but not as often. RF is there (lock-26 dB-70%) but no data...

We seem to be having PSIP issues. The transmitter is running fine. The problem is I am out recovering from arthroscopic surgery on my knee and will not be back to work until 1/4. We may have to call in outside help on Monday.
post #5542 of 6045
Windows XP? How about a reboot!!
post #5543 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdbjalan View Post

We seem to be having PSIP issues. The transmitter is running fine. The problem is I am out recovering from arthroscopic surgery on my knee and will not be back to work until 1/4. We may have to call in outside help on Monday.

OK Alan, thanks. Get well soon!
post #5544 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Windows XP? How about a reboot!!

Gee, why didn't I think of that.
post #5545 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMoore View Post

OK Alan, thanks. Get well soon!

Could you all give it another scan and let me know what happens now.?
post #5546 of 6045
Right now after 3 minutes of viewing 7 is working normally.

I wish I recorded the News on Christmas Eve just for the last few minutes. I enjoy seeing the faces of all the people they make the station what it is and the clip goes by way too fast. I assume you were in the slide for Engineering. Who was with you?

Best wishes for a speedy recovery...
post #5547 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Right now after 3 minutes of viewing 7 is working normally.

I wish I recorded the News on Christmas Eve just for the last few minutes. I enjoy seeing the faces of all the people they make the station what it is and the clip goes by way too fast. I assume you were in the slide for Engineering. Who was with you?

Best wishes for a speedy recovery...

Excellent. Very odd problem.Had to do with PSIP but nothing really to do with PSIP. (I know that makes no sense what-so-ever ).

And yes, that was myself and Brian (IT guy and all around good fellow). My third guy and transmitter guy were off that day.
post #5548 of 6045
Thread Starter 
I hope Scott and Brian and everyone else is doing well. I'm hoping to make a visit to Roanoke in January but I don't know for sure if I'll make it.

- Trip
post #5549 of 6045
Thread Starter 
With the wind being as ridiculous as its been, I've been having something I've never had before: wind fade issues. It was only impacting WSET though.

So I decided to do a signal test and adjust the antenna to fix WSET at the same time. I spun the antenna to the north first to look for W41DT-D from Elliot Knob. It's a translator for WVIR, for those up toward Lexington that might benefit from it. I saw some signal but not enough for a decode.

I realized that the antenna aim I had marked on the rotor was designed to balance out WDRL and WSET. Since WDRL is now off the air, I decided to abandon it and turned the antenna a little more northward to improve WSET and, I'd hoped, to pull in either WVIR or WTLU.

I tried to turn it north to get WTLU first, but when I did that, WPXR looked ugly, so I gave up and decided to just maximize WSET. It also brought up the MER on WSLS. Here's what I'm seeing now:

Call Ch Net Power MER Notes
WBRA 3 PBS -6.6 dBmV 24.9 dB About the same
WTVD 11 ABC -36.3 dBmV DND Power is somewhat higher
WSET 13 ABC -9.6 dBmV 34.3 dB Up from about 30 dB
WFXR 17 FOX -5.9 dBmV 30.2 dB Down somewhat
WDBJ 18 CBS -8.0 dBmV 29.6 dB Same
WWCW 20 CW +0.3 dBmV 34.4 dB About the same
WSLS 30 NBC -15.2 dBmV 35.7 dB Up from about 32 dB
WVIR 32 NBC -43.1 dBmV DND Power is up slightly
WPXR 36 ION -21.4 dBmV 26.1 dB Down slightly
WTLU 43 REL -34.6 dBmV DND WinTV-D went from no SNR at all to 7 dB

- Trip
post #5550 of 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I've been having something I've never had before: wind fade issues.

Isn't that really rapidly varying multi-path that ( I hope I'm am saying this correctly) the echo cancelling algorithm can handle?
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