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Grand Rapids, MI - HDTV

post #1 of 7928
1/9/04 at 8:32pm
Thread Starter 
Here we are gang. A new year of HD in West Michigan and a new thread to get us started. Linked below are our West Michigan "archives". I'll see if there are any other threads for our area and link them here as well.

Archives

Our first "official" thread, over 600 posts and tons of great info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=215579

Some good technical information in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=336935

Lansing area thread. Many of us live close enough to get their channels as well: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=233233

And for those of us in the South, here is the only South Bend, IN thread I could find:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=318679
And the Fort Wayne, IN thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=269203

Local Stations in Digital

ABC - WOTV (41.1) and WZZM (13.1) (both in HD)
CBS - WWMT (3.1) (HD)
NBC - WOOD (8.1) (HD)
FOX - WXMI (17.1) (HD)
MyNetwork TV - WXSP (8.2 subchannel to WOOD)
CW - (3.2 subchannel to WWMT)
PAX/Ion - WZPX (43.1)
PBS - WGVU (35.1)

Weather Radar stations as subchannels:
WOOD - 8.3

Local Station Reps and Engineers

We have some local engineers that also post and regularly read this thread.

"TV8" - WOOD (NBC), WOTV (ABC) and WXSP (UPN)
"PAX43" - WZPX, our PAX and WB station
Jim Steffy from WWMT also stops by.

Any others, let me know.

If you are like me and subscribed to the old thread, you'll need to sub to this one now.

Talk on!

EDIT: This hasn't been updated in 4 years and was out of date. I've updated the channel list, probably needs more updates.
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post #2 of 7928
1/9/04 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
I was glad to have a thread for our area that was so large and was pretty active. I think we have a pretty strong following for HD in this area and to be honest, despite complaints here and there we are really lucky that all our stations are committed to HD. Many live in markets where stations refuse to pass on HD signals from the networks.

Anyway, onwards. Latest discussions from last year's thread was reception issues with WWMT. To be honest I do think they care about HDTV. I think at first they didn't so much but they have recently been buying equipment and trying to fix problems. As much as I complain sometimes I think the root of their problem is probably a crappy VHF assignment for their digital station at channel 2. Both Chicago and Detroit have a channel 2 analog and the FCC won't let WWMT go any higher in power. Unfortunatly unless they can petition the FCC to get a better channel, perhaps in UHF, it's probably not going to change any time soon.

Good luck to everyone for SuperBowl. I think we will be OK for the most part. Let's just hope it's not raining.
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post #3 of 7928
1/9/04 at 8:45pm
Thanks I have updated my bookmark! This has provided me valuable info in the last year!
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post #4 of 7928
1/9/04 at 8:48pm
The FCC really dealt WWMT a disservice by putting them in the worst possible spot on the spectrum.
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post #5 of 7928
1/9/04 at 9:37pm
Anybody got a picture of the Royal 17 antenna that's been mentioned?
I can't quite envision what it looks like and how it's been customized for the GR market.
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post #6 of 7928
1/10/04 at 1:22am
Quote:


Originally posted by Kamakzie
The FCC really dealt WWMT a disservice by putting them in the worst possible spot on the spectrum.

In the long run it will work out better being on VHF instead of UHF, especially with WOOD DT 7 in the market and very happy to be on VHF. The interference problem with CH2 Detroit prevents WWMT from doing what most other commercial stations have done ... get much more power than the original FCC estimates.

BTW: The other bordering DMA to Grand Rapids is Fort Wayne, IN. Their AVSForum thread is here .

JL
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post #7 of 7928
1/10/04 at 8:24am
Quote:


Originally posted by mlcarson
Anybody got a picture of the Royal 17 antenna that's been mentioned?
I can't quite envision what it looks like and how it's been customized for the GR market.

I don't have a pic of it right now. But it's really just an antenna with 3 directional sections. One to point toward Gun Lake, one for WMMZ and one for WGVU. I purchased mine from:

Stadium Electronics & Video
3514 Plainfield Ave Ne
Grand Rapids, MI 49525
Tel: (616)-365-1847

I believe the price with a 10' mast and tripod was about $150.
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post #8 of 7928
1/10/04 at 8:26am
I'm in the middle of GR and have a few observations - I'd be interested in the reaction of others on this thread:

1. WWMT...it really does seem that we aren't getting the same CBS quality that people in other markets are seeing. For example, people in other markets believe that CBS HD football PQ is better than ABC. I certainly would say that in this market, ABC is much better PQ.

2. Fox...I am absolutely blown away with the quality of the OTA signal. I know its not HD, but it SO much better than Fox over Comcast. The local news broadcast is the best of the locals in terms of PQ, IMHO. Not sure why though...different cameras or something? Do you agree?

3. PAX 43. I can never get this station. The little light goes on on my tuner, but I can't get a signal. I have a Royal 17 and a Samsung tuner - I'm wondering if I have the antenna aimed wrong, or if this is typical for people in GR.

4. ABC on 41. For a long time the audio and video were out of sync. Since they have 5.1, I really wanted this to work, but it didn't. Now, it seems they've done something just in the last week or two to fix it. Are others noticing this?
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post #9 of 7928
1/10/04 at 9:12am
That may be true that VHF is better which in most cases is. However being located at channel 2 is really not so good because any interference can kill the picture.


Quote:


Originally posted by justalurker
In the long run it will work out better being on VHF instead of UHF, especially with WOOD DT 7 in the market and very happy to be on VHF. The interference problem with CH2 Detroit prevents WWMT from doing what most other commercial stations have done ... get much more power than the original FCC estimates.

BTW: The other bordering DMA to Grand Rapids is Fort Wayne, IN. Their AVSForum thread is here .

JL
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post #10 of 7928
1/10/04 at 12:11pm
Yup, I updated my bookmark also, Thanks for starting the new thread.
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post #11 of 7928
1/10/04 at 1:48pm
Quote:


Originally posted by labba

1. WWMT...it really does seem that we aren't getting the same CBS quality that people in other markets are seeing. For example, people in other markets believe that CBS HD football PQ is better than ABC. I certainly would say that in this market, ABC is much better PQ.

2. Fox...I am absolutely blown away with the quality of the OTA signal. I know its not HD, but it SO much better than Fox over Comcast. The local news broadcast is the best of the locals in terms of PQ, IMHO. Not sure why though...different cameras or something? Do you agree?

3. PAX 43. I can never get this station. The little light goes on on my tuner, but I can't get a signal. I have a Royal 17 and a Samsung tuner - I'm wondering if I have the antenna aimed wrong, or if this is typical for people in GR.

4. ABC on 41. For a long time the audio and video were out of sync. Since they have 5.1, I really wanted this to work, but it didn't. Now, it seems they've done something just in the last week or two to fix it. Are others noticing this?

Yes, I agree with all of the above with the exception of #4. I have not had any audio problems with 41.1. But I have only had HDTV for about 3 months.
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post #12 of 7928
1/10/04 at 2:46pm
Thread Starter 
I also cannot get in Pax 43 digital but I can get it in analog. Their tower is quite a bit more east then the others so I think you'd need a second antenna pointed at it or something like that.
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post #13 of 7928
1/10/04 at 4:58pm
Quote:


Originally posted by mlcarson
Anybody got a picture of the Royal 17 antenna that's been mentioned?
I can't quite envision what it looks like and how it's been customized for the GR market.

Here ya go. The top is for WZZM, the middle is towards Gun Lake for the WOTV, WWMT, WOOD and such, and the bottom is for WGVU. Hope this helps.

Well, the attachment didn't work, how about this:

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post #14 of 7928
1/10/04 at 5:47pm
Anybody else not getting the announcers audio during the Tenn-NE game on WWMT? I'm getting everything but, kind of relaxing.
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post #15 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:02pm
It is rather amuzing. Is it a CBS problem or does WWMT have a audio level set wrong?
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post #16 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:10pm
Yep, no announcers on WWMT tonight for the game. They are on over on channel 3.2 but not 3.1. I wonder if it has something to do with their 5.1 upgrading? But, I must say the picture has been very good tonight - no pixelation at all! Maybe the engineers are actually listening to all the email and phone call efforts!
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post #17 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:15pm
I'm rather enjoying it. I have said in the past that I wish I could just listen to the PA instead. Now if they could just turn the PA louder.
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post #18 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:25pm
Another note, noticed last night that Pax (43) now has four sub channels 43-1 through 43-4. Only 43-1 was coming in with all the others saying "No AV"...a new message for me on my Samsung T151. I'm guessing I was getting the signal but there was nothing being broadcast?

Question...I bought a RS antenna and put it in my attic when I first got my T151 and it's fixed pointed to the South/SE to get Fox, WWMT, WOTV, and WOOD. I have yet to be able to get PBS and Pax is spotty at best. I don't think the Royal 17 would fit in my attic but I might be able to squeeze a rotor in there...Is it worth the trouble, $ to get a Royal 17 and stick it up on the roof or would a rotor work pretty well? With the new remote rotors, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle.


Good work on the new thread bonscott. I would have never imagined it would grow to over 30 pages when I first started it almost a year ago! Great stuff guys!
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post #19 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:31pm
Do you mean S/SE? I probably have the same RS antenna as you (I also have the T151). I can't remember how big, but it just fits in my attic. I get Pax pretty good now, but PBS spotty. Is WGVU on all the time?
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post #20 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:31pm
Hehe....

I have no commentary either on 3.1, which is a bummer because it's the best PQ. They will have this fixed by the Superbowl ....right?? LOL

17.1 was awesome earlier, excellent PQ I had to call a few people to brag about it


I am currently using the old antenna on my roof, but had a few questions still on "Royal 17"

How do you tell if your pointing it in the right direction? I am thinking it involves a compass to find N?
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post #21 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:41pm
A compass that has degrees and antennaweb.org. Announcers are back
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post #22 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:43pm
We have 5.1 now! Widescreen is gone though.
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post #23 of 7928
1/10/04 at 6:59pm
I think we're fully operational now.
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post #24 of 7928
1/10/04 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by djtz31
Yep, no announcers on WWMT tonight for the game. They are on over on channel 3.2 but not 3.1. I wonder if it has something to do with their 5.1 upgrading? But, I must say the picture has been very good tonight - no pixelation at all! Maybe the engineers are actually listening to all the email and phone call efforts!

Well sure, they've eliminated any of the 2.1/3.1/5.1 audio, lot of extra badwidth there.
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post #25 of 7928
1/10/04 at 7:31pm
Nope 5.1 is up and running and wide screen. Cool!!!
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post #26 of 7928
1/10/04 at 7:59pm
Ah yes, is very nice! No worries for the Super Bowl
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post #27 of 7928
1/10/04 at 8:29pm
OOP... one more question (for today )

What are some pro's/con's for going with satellite over OTA w/cable.

I currently have cable but there are no HD channels available for Comcast yet, although I did catch a commercial advertising it coming soon? So I just am using the Antenna for OTA, and switch between the two.
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post #28 of 7928
1/10/04 at 9:31pm
Wow, good to hear football looked nice on WWMT yesterday afternoon! I hope the NFL game today is as good, because I'll actually be home to watch that one.
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post #29 of 7928
1/10/04 at 9:54pm
The picture on WWMT for the NE-Tenn game was much better today. There was still some occasional blockiness and a couple of gray screens and a little pixelation, but a lot less than normal and the picture seemed quite a bit better to me. I saw that HDTV 3D effect today. I can't comment on the 5.1 audio because I have been using the analog audio out on my hdtv receiver so I could use my receivers circle surround sound to simulate 5.1 since wwmt hasn't had it. Apparently I can go back to 5.1 optical now?
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post #30 of 7928
1/11/04 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Shmoe
Ah yes, is very nice! No worries for the Super Bowl

They still have three weeks to figure out how to mess it up.

Perhaps they will air Heidi in HD and put the game on the SD feed.

JL
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