Grand Rapids, MI - HDTV - Page 253

Can someone verify what your Tivo guide is showing for channel 130, 131 and 134? And if you are viewing in Sturgis area, 135 and 781?

Tivo.com's online guide now shows the proper channel guide info for these and call signs, but I am not sure if they were incorrect before, or if Tribune and Charter finally got the issues resolved.

Tribune reported the correction to us as of this morning. Let me know if you see any other problems there.

-George

Its working! Glad Tribune fixed it.

As per this message, guide data came back in Windows 7 Media Center this morning for Channel 17.3. I am grateful to all concerned for their help - thank you.

So are 8 and 41 down on Dish Network or did they come to an agreement?

I don't think they reached an agreement judging by this link. http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/about_us/r...ission-dispute

Talk about a blatant appeal to emotion! "On March 4th, your favorite programming was lost" Which is pretty presumptive considering that none of these programs are my favorite. Such sappy manipulative tactics don't make me want to come out on LIN's side. Note how the NBC program list is amazingly short compared to ABC's, which goes to show why NBC is in last place.

Yeah thats pretty sad but I wouldn't expect much from LIN anyways. Glad I'm on DIRECTV but even then I can get those channels from OTA on my receivers anyways.

DISH still carries WZZM GRAND RAPIDS, MI (ABC). So it is just the NBC shows in the Grand Rapids market.

Not only that, but this company doesn't care one bit about the people they were trying to manipulate, nor the rest of their viewers. I was subjected to their crawls and overlays, interrupting programming I AM PAYING THEM FOR, via my cable bill (and even though I wasn't watching on cable!). That's just TS for me, I guess. They have no respect at all for their viewers.

My cable bill went up to compensate for having to pay them more, which is what will happen to Dish viewers as well. But hey, it's only "pennies a day". Of course, they don't say how many pennies. And since it's bundled in the Basic tier, which is required to receive any programming, I can't even opt out if I get it OTA (which I do). So they've managed to force me to pay for it, even though I'm not watching it there. Nice trick!

- Tim

Like he said.........

I hope Dish does not cave. I have Dish and only watch Chuck and the local news on NBC. I can receive the news OTA (but have been watching more Fox 17) and watch Chuck on Hulu. LIN is a bunch of greedy people. I applaud dish for sticking to their guns. I don't want my programming rates to go up!

I don't see a lot of support for WOTV and WOOD on this board so I will try to give the other side of the story.

All carriers have choices. Negotiating a fair price will not increase your monthly bill. They could choose to carry all the local stations and not carry a network like Lifetime and would save money and be able to reduce their programming cost and maybe pass that savings to you. I use Lifetime as an example but it could be one or two of a hundred other Networks they currently pay for that costs you more than all of the major stations in this market charge Dish Network all together. We are asking for pennies a day. Dish currently charges you $5.00 or $6.00 for local stations; we would be more than happy if that money they charge you was split proportionately to the local stations.

We are asking for pennies a day compared to a network like ESPN that is
getting about $4.00 a month per subscriber and has less than a third of
the viewing we have.

I would also remind you we have been able to negotiate a fair rate with
all of the other providers including DirecTV, Comcast, Charter, and in
other parts of the country, Time Warner, Brighthouse etc. Only Dish
Network is choosing not to pay a fair price.


I hope you can see things our way once you have both sides of the story.
We appreciate our viewers and ask for your support so that we can continue bring you best in technical advances and local programming.

I can certainly see why some of you are upset. We also hope that you can see
through DISH Network's public relations tactics. From the start, we have
told our side using facts:

*We are asking for fair treatment and value, based upon our many years of
service to the community and highly-rated programming.

*We need to level the playing field. DISH pays more for cable channels
that you may hardly watch or never watch. These cable channels take that
money and compete with us for programs. Have you noticed that two national NFL games a week are no longer available to local stations. Do you remember when WXSP carried the Big 10, Detroit Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons. These programs were taken from us by cable networks out bidding us from the cable revenues Dish disproportionately pays them. I guarantee you these cable networks don't ask for a few pennies day like we are trying to negotiate. LOCAL television deserves fair treatment, so we may continue to provide the quality programming you want and deserve.

*While contract legalities prevent either side from disclosing exact
dollar figures, we can assure you what we are asking for is pennies a day
per subscriber, which is a fraction of what cable networks get. DISH is
using percentage increases to scare you. When its pennies, any percentage increase seems high. For instance, increasing from 1 cent to 2 cents is a 100%increase.

We have worked tirelessly to negotiate with DISH and will continue to do so in order to reach a fair deal. If DISH hadn't rejected our many previous offers to extend the existing agreement for another month there would have been no interruption in service. DISH removed the signals on the day and hour it chose, over LIN's objection. We negotiated well past midnight. After DISH removed the signals, we resumed negotiations all weekend in hopes of having them restored as soon as possible.

We are disappointed that DISH is denying our stations to its customers while continuing to charge them. We hope DISH will reconsider its hard line position, reach a fair deal, and restore carriage as soon as possible. However, all of our signals are available to DISH customers for free, over the air, and through dozens of other cable and satellite providers that compete with DISH.

We will continue to take the high road and encourage you to base your
decision on FACTS, not public relations tactics. That, to us, is
really putting the viewer in the middle.

I hope that you will continue to support local television and watch our
station through alternative means.

Thank you.

I won't get in to a complete rebuttal mode here because I appreciate your contributions and help on this site. However with LIN stations in 17 markets we've also had the opportunity to hear from LIN stations in other markets and it seems that they are using the same talking points.

This is obviously something "above the pay grade" of everyone in Grand Rapids and the other local markets. It is a corporate negotiation. Three years ago (if I recall correctly) LIN stations left DISH in a programming dispute and were returned. I suspect the same will happen this time ... hopefully without too much interruption.

As far as "pennies a day" - there are many channels carried on satellite that don't get a single penny per day. Three pennies a day is nearly a dollar a month - which on a national scale places the cost closer to the most expensive channels on cable/satellite. ESPN is the most common target of broadcasters (including ABC affiliates) but their $4 per month rate is for several channels of sports content. Not a single broadcast channel.

There are seven channels carried by DISH in the Grand Rapids market ... plus WWMT's CW sub channel and WGVU PBS. Pennies per day for that many channels is more than the $5 DISH attributes to local service.

Plus, in addition to the "retransmission consent" fee DISH must pay for a local point of presence to receive your signal, a fiber backhall to the uplink center (I believe this is in Chicago for the Grand Rapids market - closer than most markets). An uplink center that only exists to carry locals to spotbeam satellites that would not exist if locals were not carried. DISH has made a huge financial investment in order to deliver LIN stations to your viewers that is not covered by the $5 fee.

Hopefully corporate works this out with DISH and viewers can get back to enjoying your quality programs and complaining about the weather coverage. WOTV 8 was one of my favorite channels when I lived in the Grand Rapids Market and I watched WUHQ as well. I find it fitting to see the WOOD call letters returned and despite the "virtual channel" it is fun to know you're back on channel 7 where it all began. I find no fault with you, your operation or anything in Grand Rapids. LIN corporate ... well, I've said enough.

Best wishes for a speedy return.

Er, not to get involved in this, but the data I saw said that it was $4/mo. JUST for ESPN. ESPN2 is an additional $0.54/mo., ESPN Classic is $0.18/mo., etc. Source: http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/file...e-sub-fees.png

- Trip

That is a good chart that demonstrates how many "pennies per day" cable channels are getting ... noting that only 20 channels are getting more than one penny per day, 5 channels break the two penny per day line. Only two channels get more than 4 "pennies per day".

Fox Sports is higher than I remember seeing it before - now 8 pennies per day. An of course the poster child, ESPN.

I'm wondering how SNL Kagan (the creator of that chart) is handling bundling in the prices? Based on the MDU rates (which DISH has apparently pulled from their commercial website) the a la carte rate for ESPN alone was higher than when bundled with other ESPNs. MDUs could purchase 5 of the ESPNs from DISH for less than $4.60. With DISH making a profit the price paid to ESPN would have to be less. (I've quoted the commercial rates in a la carte discussions before --- I can look them up if needed.)

Back in the mid 90's channel 8 was removed from the cable system here in Kalamazoo over this same thing. I do not know if the same company owned the station then, but what I do know is that it went on for a very long time.

I suspect that the owners of this station would bitch to high heaven if a cable or satellite system elected not to carry them. What I did back then is put up a roof top antenna that picked up many stations for free and I still use that antenna to this day and I got rid of the cable.

I also found that with a roof top antenna I was able to pick up channel 10 out of Jackson and I have not watched channel 8 since and I watch channel 13 instead of 41. Both of these channels have much better sound than 8 or 41.

I find it bothersome that any station that can be picked up OTA would expect to be paid for having their signal retransmitted and even more so that they want more money in this bad economical environment. I, myself, have not had a raise in more than three years and many folks, if they are lucky enough to even have a job, find themselves in the same boat.

While, I do not want to sound like I wish to take sides, I like that Dish has the balls to stand up and say NO!! I am wondering if LIN is giving any of their advertiser's rebates for fewer viewers seeing their ads around the country, probably not, but how they would whine if they were asked.

You're the first person I've seen comment on the poor audio of 8 and 41. But I agree with you - it's my second biggest gripe with them (the overused/oversized weather/cancellation graphics take the #1 spot).

It's most noticeable with crowd noise - beginning of The Tonight Show when Jay walks out, sports games with cheering fans, etc. There's just a weird phase shift/pseudo surround kind of thing that happens to the audio. I don't know if it is overly compressed audio or something else, but I only hear it on 8 and 41 and have noticed it for years. Switching between 41 and 13 during an NBA game makes it easy to compare.

I hear it whether listening to Dolby Digital through my Pioneer receiver or watching on the old 20" tube TV in the bedroom, whether the source is OTA or Charter, HD or SD.

Don't know if this is the same complaint you have about the sound. Since I've never seen it mentioned before, perhaps my ears are just overly sensitive to it.

I realize that WOOD has a parent company and that this is LINs doing, but I doubt you will find much support in the State of Michigan when multi-million dollar business are fighting over more money! Many of us who are lucky enough to still have jobs are still finding it difficult to make ends meet! You might suggest to Corporate to pull their heads out of thier rearends and look around and see what is really going on in the real world!

Just because a product is available from the original owner OTA for free, why is it so unreasonable that someone else who picks it up and packages it and resells it and makes a profit shouldn't give the originator a cut?

Well, not to pile on the negative side here, but let's assume for a moment that Dish only pays equal amounts out to the HD channels that they carry. There are 5 HD channels, WWMT, WOOD, WZZM, WXMI and WOTV. Granted WOOD and WOTV are the same ownership, but I am looking at a per channel thing here.

$6 per month is the local fee, which equates on a 30 day month $0.04 per month, per channel. Not a lot of money there. Add in Dish's costs for fiber backhauls, uplink centers, etc, and I doubt there is much if any profit there.

So when I hear a broadcaster beg for more money from someone like Dish, and cite "we are only asking for a small increase, mere pennies per day" well there are only 4 pennys to play with to begin with.

Of course if Dish has to pay any money to WGVU, WLLA, WTLJ, or WZPX, then that 4 pennies per day goes down even more!

Non-comms are defined as must carry so they wouldn't get paid.

One thing to note ... DISH made about 10c per subscriber per day profit last year. They have hundreds of channels to deal with. If they start handing out pennies per day to every provider - or even a few - they won't be able to stay in business.

I knew someone would have that kind of data! I would have to think that locals are a loss overall for dish, that they make up through charges on other channels, and carrying channels that pay to be aired.

All OTA traditional network stations have shown a consistent decline in viewers. Viewers equals advertising rates. You would think stations such as WOOD/WOTV would not want to have less viewers because of this corporate position.....makes no sense

You are about half right. 2010 net income 985 million divided by 14.1 million subs divided by 365 days, between 19 and 20 cents. Gross revenue was 12.64 billion which is almost 1 billion more than 2009 yet they lost 156,000 subscribers in 2010. The only way that is possible is by charging subscriberts more to make up the lost revenue from 156,000 and then some. WOOD and WOTV didn't get any of that extra 1 billion in revenue.

Did the subscriber charge for locals on Dish go up during that time? I dont think it did, and if thats the case, then your argument is a bit flawed. It should be the non-local channels complaining and asking for more money.

Also, revenues could have been up due to subscribers increasing their programming package. You neglected to mention that. I dont know if that is the case or not, but it is most definitely a possibility.

You're right ... for some reason my mind took $6 profit per month and got 10c per day. BTW: DirecTV made 49c per day per subscriber using the correct formula.


Here is where you are half right. They lost (net) 156k subscribers in 4Q 2010 (their worst quarter ever for subscriber loss). The net for the year 2010 was a gain of 33k subscribers. (3,052,000 new subscribers - 3,019,000 lost subscribers. DirecTV gained 4,124,000 new subscribers - 3,461,000 lost subscribers.)


$977k to be closer ... I'm pretty sure the LIN stations didn't have to pay the additional $628k in expenses DISH had in 2010. And neither did the cable channel providers who have their hand out.

Sadly with a subscriber acquisition cost of $776 per account DISH probably made more money off of not adding more than 33k net customers last year.

I saw earlier in this forum about Charter moving QAM stations. I rescanned my stations and I'm missing WOOD and WZZM. Is anyone else having this issue? I have basic basic and wondering if they completely got rid of them or moved them to a spot where the filter blocks them. I called tech support up and the lady had no idea what the heck i was talking about with QAM stations. She said I had to get a box to get the local HD's. Which then i said to her I thought by law we are supposed to get any local HDs if they are broadcasting the analog. Can anyone on here answer what happened to the stations?

The channels were moved on 2/24 during maintenance and should be viewable by all customers on the Allendale headend. When was the last time you rescanned?

-George

You are correct. I was reading for 4th QTR rather than full year results.