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JVC Announces D-ILA RPTVs - Page 28  

post #811 of 1134
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...tz#post4141188
post #812 of 1134
This afternoon I checked out the D-ILA at the same store umr went to for his review. A few initial comments: it may be the same TV he saw, and that unit may have individual problems; I made no adjustments to the set; I viewed it next to a Pioneer Elite Plasma, maybe the best picture I've ever seen, so I used the Elite as more of a reference point than a direct comparison; I'm not a videophile, so I'll say what I saw in layman's terms and not try to match umr's technical insights.

GOOD: Shadow detail was good when I watched LOTR nighttime battle scenes on DVD, and colors were realistic viewing OTA HD. Brightness was adequate, but not distractingly bright. The picture was smooth with no artifacting on the content I saw (caveat: I saw no fast motion content), and screen door was only apparent within a couple feet of the screen.

AVERAGE: Contrast ratio was ok, but not as good as HD3 or HD2+ DLP. It was better than LCD RPTV in my opinion, but I haven't spent much time examining those so I could be wrong. There was some minor dithoring, but not enough to be distracting like I've seen on the Sammy HLNs and other DTVs.

POOR: The image lacked sharpness even beyond that which some have complained about on the Sammy HLP. The result was a picture that laid kind of flat on the screen rather than having the almost 3D look good HDTV can provide. The fuzziness was equally distributed throughout the picture, not just in the corners as some have noted in their tests.

I don't know exactly what convergence problems would look like on this set, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out this unit has an individual problem...I hope so, because other than that it's a set I could happily live with. I look forward to finding other D-ILAs to compare to when they're more widely on display.

My advice: don't buy this set unseen...make sure you view it and come to your own conclusion.
post #813 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by cmonsammy
POOR: The image lacked sharpness even beyond that which some have complained about on the Sammy HLP. The result was a picture that laid kind of flat on the screen rather than having the almost 3D look good HDTV can provide. The fuzziness was equally distributed throughout the picture, not just in the corners as some have noted in their tests.
That's interesting because today when I was looking at the HD content on the set I specifically thought to myself how much more life-like and 3D it looked compared to the LCD. I thought it combined the best elements of DLP and LCD and resulted in the best overall picture. With a bit of fiddling the contrast ratio seemed comparable to the DLPs (although it was just an HD2 next to it).

If there really are substantial variations between the units (and not just a result of the settings) then buying one could be a bit dicey if you don't actually see the unit you're purchasing. On the other hand, by just fiddling with the user menu I got a huge variation in image quality (never mind what the service menu can do).
post #814 of 1134
I just bought the 52" and have a question. I'm using Cox cable for HDTV and five component cables. Will I get a better signal using the DVI input?

Thanks.
post #815 of 1134
I just bought the 52" and have a question. I'm using Cox cable for HDTV and five component cables. Will I get a better signal using the DVI input?

Thanks.
post #816 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by gorak7
I just bought the 52" and have a question. I'm using Cox cable for HDTV and five component cables. Will I get a better signal using the DVI input?

Thanks.
Most people will say yes, but it may depend on how good your cable box is. Some may have a good quality component out that will be as good if not a tad below DVI.

But in general DVI is better than Component
post #817 of 1134
After months of looking (Samsung DLP, etc.), I saw and am close to closing the deal on 61" JVC Dila. Local retailer has the black 52" on display and it looks great. Does anyone know if the JVC Stand (RKCILA5B) for the 52" is the same stand for the 61" also? The stand has a cool swivel feature to it. Also the black stand matches the black HD52Z585 model nicely.
post #818 of 1134
The base of the 61" has the same dimensions as the base of the 52", therefore, I would think the stand is fine. I can't imagine the little bit of additional bulkiness to the 61 would make much of a difference.
post #819 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by gorak7
The base of the 61" has the same dimensions as the base of the 52", therefore, I would think the stand is fine. I can't imagine the little bit of additional bulkiness to the 61 would make much of a difference.
Yes, I was specifically told this stand is for both sizes.


Well I'm at the decision point now. Its not actually an issue of whether the D-ILA is the right TV -- for me it is. I spent half an hour today with the 52" in a dark room watching Two Towers and experimenting with the settings. The brightness setting ended up fairly high (+20 on a scale of -30..+30), but that seemed to get good results in the dark scenes and it didn't do noticable damage to the very bright scenes. With access to the service menu settings the results will be even better. I don't think there is any other issue running with a fairly high brightness setting...?

The other complaints about the set just don't seem apparent to me -- the chromatic abberation isn't noticable except right up close in a test pattern, I didn't see any of the "electrical noise", the scaler didn't look any worse to my eye than the other sets I've looked at (I didn't have them side by side, but if you can't tell when they aren't then who cares since you'll only have one in your home!), I quite like the screen, and with fiddling I found that the contrast ratio can be quite a bit better than the various LCDs I've similarly played with. I did see some digital dithering effects in a couple of cases, particuarly the wide open sky shots, but it was fairly minor and barely noticable from proper viewing distance -- I've actually seen much worse on the GW and various plasmas. I didn't see anything that I could identify as internal reflections... perhaps this is like rainbows in that you're immune until somebody tells you how to spot them. So shhhhh.

The upsides to the set are the real win -- I've got a long and successful history with JVC now, its not a Sony, no rainbows (I'm getting so sensitive that I can't even glance at a DLP/LCOS without seeing them in virtually every scene), very minimal screen door, sharp picture, not too sharp a picture, excellent colour reproduction, no side speakers. One minor bummer is the lack of IEEE1394, but I can't even wait for the later model with ATSC/CableCARD/1394 because apparently its not coming to Canada.

So now I just have to decide if I want to spend this much money on a home theatre system (and yes, I can get a very good price on the system). :eek:
post #820 of 1134
I agree with the above post. I just saw the JVC yesterday and the picture was great. I did not do any adjustments to the set as I wanted to look on the forum and see what people were doing for adjustments.

The only problem that I saw yesterday was that the blacks were being crushed. I believe the store was running some DVD loop via component. And the store had the tv in a low light setting.

I am going back today to change some settings to see if the black detail gets better, which I believe it will since most people here have tweaked it to be great. Interesting note, the RCA DLP was right next to it, and it had like NO BLACK CRUSH, man was I shocked, but the actually pic was crap compared to the D-ILA. There was a HItachi LCD RPTV next to it also and it crushed blacks the same if not worse than the D-ILA.
post #821 of 1134
julruk - thanks for the info. definitely let us know if the tweaks described in the forum adequately remove the black crush on the DILA. If they do, this may be the set for me ...
post #822 of 1134
Just be sure to go and judge for yourself -- its been said many times, but it bears repeating: what is important is YOUR opinion of the set you are going to buy. The only way to form this opinion is to go and look at it in the most representative environment you can, view the kind of content you expect to be watching, and fiddle with the controls to see if you can make it look like you want it to look. You're about to spend thousands of dollars on this thing for goodness sake!

Take the information given here and use it to be informed, but don't use it to be a mindless automoton who will buy whatever they are told. I don't doubt that UMR's observations are correct, and his opinion is perfectly valid... but he's not going to be watching my TV and I'm not going to be watching his (and even if we were, its my money going into my set so its me that has to feel satisified).
post #823 of 1134
One thing I noticed with my 52" is that the cable box I got from Cox didn't have a HDMI output, only DVI. If I connect the DVI to the HDMI, I get a much better picture, but no sound! Does anyone know if they make cable boxes with HDMI outputs?
post #824 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by gorak7
One thing I noticed with my 52" is that the cable box I got from Cox didn't have a HDMI output, only DVI. If I connect the DVI to the HDMI, I get a much better picture, but no sound! Does anyone know if they make cable boxes with HDMI outputs?
Just use your audi digital out on you cable box to your receiver if you have one, if not use the RCA audio out on your box to your tv.

I dont know of any boxes that are HDMI yet, I think those wont be out for a while unfortunately.
post #825 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by gorak7
One thing I noticed with my 52" is that the cable box I got from Cox didn't have a HDMI output, only DVI. If I connect the DVI to the HDMI, I get a much better picture, but no sound! Does anyone know if they make cable boxes with HDMI outputs?
Even though the JVC has a HDMI input there are two RCA audio inputs specifically for the HDMI input on the back of the TV.
post #826 of 1134
Thanks ptwat,

I'm not at home now, but will look for them when I return. Are they right next to the HDMI input? Cause I did look there, and didn't notice them.
post #827 of 1134
It is not directly next to the HDMI, it is up and to the right of the HDMI, with a line connecting them. In the settings there is a place to tell it to use Digital or Analog audio with the HDMI.
post #828 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by mchargue
Do you have any information on the stand? I like the pivot feature, and that it matches the TV well.

Pat
I saw the stand today and took some quick measurements.

Width of the glass shelves is 51". The round posts on each front corner add another 3" on each side, but only on the front.

Shelves are 19.75" deep except in the center where the back is taken up by the support structure.

The shelf width on either side of the center support is 20.5" wide. Other than where the center support is, the shelves are completely open in the back

The height of the space between shelves was a little harder to measure but the space from the bottom shelf up to the support brackets for the top shelf was 6.5", maybe just a tad higher. The space between the top shelf and the pivoting TV support is 5.125".

The total height from floor to the TV shelf was 17".
post #829 of 1134
Well, I saw the JVC over the weekend and, well, I was very disappointed. They had Voom running and the Sony was next to the JVC. The JVC had some major black crush going on, digital noise like crazy around text edges, and the infamous shimmering effect of fast motion. I assume these sets were slightly tooled with because the Sony was drop dead gorgeous. I have never seen the Sony look good, it was sweet, both the 42" and the 50". The Panny was OK, but had that dark overcast I've always seen when I look a the Panny. THe Sammy's all looked good but I see rainbows and they had just dropped Hitachi due to their bulb issues and too many returns. So, that makes me weary of Hitachi now.

So, they had 3 JVCs and they all looked the same. Black crush, bright brilliant colors with some digital noise and shimmering. Basically confirming everything umr said. Just about every other set looked pretty good, so I imagine they are not right out of the box.

Looks like I'm liking the Sony more and more now that I've finally seen it with a decent picture.
post #830 of 1134
Can these JVC's be that different from each other???
People are reporting observations all over the board...
It has a beautiful picture / it has a lousy picture.
It has major black crush / it has no black crush.
It looked better than any of the other TV's / It looked the worst.
what is going on here????????
post #831 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by bobaphx
Can these JVC's be that different from each other???
People are reporting observations all over the board...
It has a beautiful picture / it has a lousy picture.
It has major black crush / it has no black crush.
It looked better than any of the other TV's / It looked the worst.
what is going on here????????
Well opinions are like... you know the saying.

Other than that, I think there are likely 3 things going on (and this is just an off-the-wall theory):

1) Store lighting and store sources often stink. Most of the "reviews" around here are from people looking at it in a store with a store feed. I would tend to lay more credence (despite any level of expertise/experience) to the reviews NOT using a store feed.

2) I think there IS likely a less than stellar scaler on the TV and a potential A/D problem that creates a lot of noise.

3) Digital TV (ALL DTV's from DLP to LCOS to LCD etc.) are imperfect. They often have little tics and that often includes pixelization at times. A lot of people are HOPING for the next miracle TV. But, there is no perfect solution.

Combine all that, and you get various reports all over the place. Mine is getting delivered on Tuesday. I'll tear into it then. I have 30 days to determine if it's worth keeping or not.
post #832 of 1134
QuentinH- Well the store feed of Voom looked stunning on most sets, so I can't blame the source as the cause of JVC's short comings. The Sony did not display the same issues and the source looked quite nice. About 15 sets had Voom and it was easy to compare. On the whole, 90% of the sets looked great, so I would attribute most flaws to the set, not the source. The Sony next to the JVC looked awesome, I've never seen it look so good. THe JVC was nice, but the flaws I mentioned above were very noticeable within 5' but were not on the Sony.
post #833 of 1134
I have the 52" and have now had time to play with it a little. In general the HD looks great, I did see some noise on a PBSHD broadcast where they were showing a lot of snow in Antarctica or somewhere. On SD there is definitely a lot of noise, but HD, other than as stated, looks fabulous.

I have a concernt, though, that I'd like addressed. Keep in mind I'm a newbie at owning a big screen (two days), so this is all still kind of foreign to me.

I'm watching through cable TV on Cox Communications. I have a feed from the box for video hooked up through their DVI output to my HDMI input (had to buy a $120 cable for this). I was able to hook up via regular component cable from the same box to a different input as well (can't get sound this way though, as there is only one audio output). The HDMI feed is definitely better than the component, for the most part. Interestingly, when watching soccer on Fox Sports World, the component feed actually looks better, at least when the scene is of the "full field", i.e., not a close up of a particular player(s). On the HDMI feed, from the full field view, the ball looks more like a box and the players look like little lego men. Is this pixelization? On the component feed, it is better, but still not good.

I'm wondering if there is some way to adjust the settings to get a better picture for the soccer games. If anyone has any advise on this, or if the current owners could play around with Fox Sports World and let me know if they are having the same issues or have any luck improving the picture, it would be greatly appreciated. There are usually games on pretty much every evening and some afternoons.

This is a potential deal breaker for me, and my concern is that there may be the same kinds of issues with football. Anyone seen any football on SD? And are there any such problems?

Thanks in advance for the advise.
post #834 of 1134
I have had the set for an entire week and have been tweaking it mercilessly. Overall the set looks very good.

I'm coming from a Toshiba LCOS which this set replaces. Picture - not as good as the LCOS (1280x720p vs 1920x1080p) so this is not a surprise. I moved my seating position back 4 feet.

Scaler - Internal scaler is horrible, I've only viewed a little OTA with the sets internal scaler and all the comments about the picture breaking up etc. are true. However, I do not have that problem because I'm feeding the set 1280x720p from a HDLeeza and the picture is excellent, particularly for the digital channels from my cable box.

I would not reccomend this set if you do not already have a scaler. I found the Toshiba scaler to be very good, and have read and heard good reports about Sony's version.

Don Frier
post #835 of 1134
Donf,

Can you share what settings you are using for the various watching modes?

I don't know much about scalers, in fact, don't even know what one is. Would it help my problem described above?

Thanks.
post #836 of 1134
I just received my JVC 61" tv today from the TVA powerbuy. I haven't set it up yet, but I just wanted to give everyone a warning about Overnight Transportation Company. They were the company that delivered my tv. They did not bring it into the house. They told me that it’s company policy that they are not allowed to bring anything into the house. In fact, I had to help the driver get the tv off the truck. The truck had no ramp, and the driver was alone. I couldn't find anyone that was available to help today, so it was no easy task to get the tv into the house. Anyway, I just wanted to warn people so there not caught by surprise like I was. I think I'm going to stick with local companies for big purchased in the future.
post #837 of 1134
Quote:
Originally posted by ManUnited
... but I just wanted to give everyone a warning about Overnight Transportation Company. They were the company that delivered my tv. They did not bring it into the house.

You were "conned" by the driver. TVA paid for the set to be brought into your house.

You can help others if you call TVA and tell Neil what happened.
post #838 of 1134
Asword,

Did you see this TV in Vancouver? What store? I really want to see this for myself.
Thanks.
Tyler.
post #839 of 1134
ManUnited,

Please let me know what you think of the set for soccer viewing. Judging from your name, I think we have a similar interest.
See my post a few up from yours.

Also, I know people use a certain Nemo scene to check for some qualities of a set's picture. However, if you really want to challenge a set, I'd say watch a soccer game, with all the motion and small, easily recognizable items moving around (players & ball), it can really give you some good insight into things such as motion artifacts, color, etc.

Pardon me if my lingo isn't technically correct.
post #840 of 1134
Htwaits, when I scheduled delivery of the TV they told me they would not bring the TV in the house. I talked to three different people at Overnight Transportation Company and they all said the same thing. I did call TVA on Friday, but in the end it didn't help. I assume that TVA will fix the problem at some point, but I wanted to warn people that might be receiving a TV in the near future so they are not surprised.
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