Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions - Page 5

For those of you interested in how SM/MM looks in person, I have a comparison in the works that I believe can clarify things a bit for you. I got a few samples of Stewart screen materials in the mail yesterday. They are the StudioTek 130 (1.3 gain) and the FireHawk (1.35 gain from their literature). Taped them both to an old test panel and projected onto my now half SM/MM / half Stewart samples screen.

Not to spoil the surprise, because much more work is needed with different movies and screenshots, but the SM/MM looks IDENTICAL to the StudioTek 130 sample.

I'll get working on this tonight and tomorrow and post some shots to let "you make the call."

BTW, the FireHawk is very impressive, too. Something I'd definitely consider in a room with ANY ambient light. Truly incredible how such a dark gray surface can reflect so much light and closely resemble a white or light gray screen. Blacks were much improved over SM/MM but whites were down proportionally.

Stay tuned...

Bought a sprayer this week. Can only say, if you're still struggling with rolling, cut yourself a break and get one. I know it adds some to the cost of the project, but unlike the pos Wagner sprayers you will want to use your hvlp sprayer whenever a painting job comes up. My first coat of SM made my best rolled on coat look like horse hair. These hvlp sprayers (campbell hausfeld in this case) really are nice pieces of equipment.

Any suggestions for a NEC HT1000 in a light controlled room run in ECO mode? Is this screen appropriate? I would prefer a brighter image over maximum contrast.

As promised, here's the comparo between mainly the StudioTek 130 and the painted SM/MM screen. Also joining the party is the FireHawk.

My first shot will illustrate the look of the 3 with a pure white light projected (from Avia). I illustrate where each of the materials are for future reference.

The shots with Avia show that the ST130 and SM/MM are very similar, but there are a few differences. Specifically whites appear to be a little brighter on the ST130 and blacks usually appear slightly blacker on the SM/MM side. I say usually because on some of the Avia shots the blacks looked ever so slightly better on the ST130. Later shots will show Gladiator and these differences are minimal at best and certainly would not be noticeable one way or the other without the other one present.

So without further ado...

Forgot to mention that this SM/MM screen was thrown together a few weeks ago and there are obvious inconsistencies in the paint coats. I will be repainting it within the next few weeks, so I'm betting that the image will improve slightly as those inconsistencies disappear.

More Avia. This time with color!

One more Avia shot. RED!

On to Gladiator.

Check out the difference in the blue sky between the StudioTek 130 - SM/MM and the FireHawk. There's your color shift.

Note my pj is calibrated for the SM/MM, not the FireHawk.

And one last one to illustrate the deeper blacks of the FireHawk. It's very obvious on-screen, even if the SS isn't.

scoob5555,

Great pictures. Can you show the Avia's Black Level Adjustment screen? You know, the one with half grey and half black and 2 moving black bars on the left. You may need to move the FireHawk to the left a little. Or some checker board patterns will be great also.

Thanks

Kin

By request-
Here's another to show some of the black level of the FH versus the SM/MM. Not the easiest thing to see in any of these shots, but it is quite apparent in person.

One last one for the black level question.

Indeed they are difficult to see. That show how much we can't see in picture postings. Thanks scoob5555.

MM,

I've been following the amazing developement of this DIY screen,
great work to all involved.

Will the MM LFWS work well for me? I bought a used Eiki LC-X1U(Sanyo PLC-9000N) which will be in a projector room about 20Ft from the screen.
Full On/Off contrast is only 300:1 @ 1500 ANSI.
Thanks,

Tommy P.

Tommy-
In lieu of MM's response (as he's off displaying in several shows for a while), please allow me to espouse my knowledge on the matter.

In short, YES! Try an MMud formula with some lamp black added by the HD guy to help your blacks. With 1500 lumens, you can sacrifice some to the gray MMud with little effect on the whites/brightness. But since you're about 20 ft from the screen, you're talking about a large projected image, so your 1500 lumens will already be spread a little thin, so maybe just a 1/96 oz drop to have a light gray paint.

MM or someone else may know something about the color deficiencies of your pj, but in general, I wouldn't add (m)any more pigments to the mix. You can always tweak the user settings of the pj yourself - or hire an ISF guy to calibrate the machine once you have the screen ready.

Thanks for the reply scoob5555.
Right now I'm projecting onto a biege wall, and friends family and neighbors are blown away by the bright saturated 8ft wide picture. People in the neighborhood are actually slowing down in thier cars for a peek into the bay window.

So I'm expecting even more from the LF screen, and judging from everyones screen shots, I won't be dissapointed.

I've dismantled the PJ numerous times, removing LCD panels, prism and optics for cleaning. Removing the mainboard electronics was neccesary to get to the mirrors. I was able to focus and align the pixels very accurately color by color, to the extreme edges of the screen(1024x768 native). First time playing with a PJ, too.

So I plan on being as exacting when I build this DIY screen.

Thanks again,

Tommy P.

hey scoob, in a previous post (or maybe this one; geez I've read so many up to this point) there was a side-by-side comparison of screen shots posted by both you and mm, specifically, gladiator images. You commented on MM's blues being too high; whether they are or not is arbitrary. HOWEVER, I much prefer your image, feeling there is much more accuracy. Could you tell me what screen recipe you used to achieve this screen?

Also, I'm using a sony hs10. There's been mention in a few posts the addition of certain tints to boost colorometry of other known pjs. Tuned with Digital Video Essentials, my pj exhibits perfect blues, pretty accurate reds, but greens are all over the place when compared to its uniform counterparts.

Any thoughts? Also, a recipe please.

thanks!
razor

I'm working on my screen now. I used a piece of hardboard, then primed it with Kilz tinted grey (about the same grey as SM).

I then rolled the SM using a foam roller - meant for painting trim or over finished cabinets. The individual rolls were very smooth, but I had trouble getting rid of the lines from one load of paint to the next. I found they were not very visible after wet-sanding. Actually, it looks better than the picture posted at the begining of this thread with the roller and bucket.

What is the consequence of wet-sanding this coat? It got rid of the lines, but the finish is a little more flat. Its still shiny and reflective though. Should I apply another coat using a 3/8" nap roller or leave as is?

Should I use a 3/8" nap roller for the top coat or use the foam roller.

Finally, what about those flat paint things? Don't know what they are called, but instead of rolling you spread it. People use them for corners and around trim alot. How would one of those work?

If the SM layer looks good to you, then you shouldn't need to worry about another coat and more sanding. You haven't changed the properties of the SM by sanding it (unless you have some super powers) and in fact the smooth surface for the MMud is what you want (and what I'll be doing again real soon).

For the MM coats, do NOT use the foam roller. Use a 1/4" nap roller as the foam messes up the finish, making the roll lines very visible - and highly annoying. This is why I'll be redoing my screen. When I switched to the 1/4" roller, the coats were much better and more even.

The flat "rollers" are nice for painting your walls, but the amount of paint you add is somewhat thicker and less controllable than with a 1/4" roller.

One final question before I roll my top coat. Which recipe? I have a Sanyo Z2 (LCD) which will be in a totally light controlled room. Should I go with the MississippiMud which is:

1 quart of Behr Deep Base (1300) $8.99
1 quart of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling" $8.99
2 quarts of Behr "White Opal" Perlescence $17.99
1 "1/96th oz" particle droplet of Red Oxide*

Or go with:

1 quart of Behr Deep Base (1300) $8.99
1 quart of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling" $8.99
1 quart of Behr "White Opal" Perlescence $17.99

In the gladiator picture comparing Scoob's and MM, I prefer Scoob. How much of that is due to calibration of the projector? Couldn't you get the same color saturation from tweaking the controls?

MM and I differ on this, but I believe calibration makes all the difference in getting the most out of your pj/screen combo. I own Avia, DVE, and I recalibrate with the THX Optimizer on any disc with it. On my TW100, I have 6 possible settings per input, so I try to calibrate for several different possibilities and then tweak one or two settings with individual movies for the best image. I can even set the incoming signal from the DVD player to 0 or 7.5 IRE and play from there. I love tweaking.

For the formula, I'd go with whatever makes you more comfortable. As I mentioned elsewhere, you can still get the right proportions for either one by buying only one quart of the pearlescent (by using 1/2 of the UPW and Deep Base). I will probably use this formula for the next batch I do simply because I don't need a gallon of MMud - and even 1/2 a gallon is too much. And I used no pigments in the first batch, but I will probably add a 1/96th drop of Lamp Black to the next batch to enhance the blacks a little.

hey scooby, could you expound a little more by telling us exactly what you plan on mixing the next go-around?

I've been researching this extensively and have settled on one form of the mm/sm recipe. However, someone's always throwing a splash o' tint in here or a splash there so I want to make sure I have all the formulas at hand so i can make a decision. Like I said in a previous post, I REALLY like the combination of paint you use (think: gladiator side-by-side), but you seem to be constantly evolving and making little tweaks here-and-there that don't get mentioned until you find the mix you like. No offense Just don't want to miss anything.

Could you tell me the amounts of each paint you will use on your next screen, as well as which ones? And will you forego the thalo completely in favor of the lamp?

thanks again!
razor

Simply, I plan to try the 2:1:1 mix, mixed to 1/2 gallon instead of a full gallon. And I will be adding a single 1/96th drop of lamp black only. I will hitherto forego adding any additional pigments since my TW100 is very accurate color-wise.

OK, I am building a home theater room and was going to go with BO cloth but looking at my fresh smooth drywall (primed) I'm thinking painting would be better. I was thinking goo but it's quite expensive. This formula looks promising. The projector is a SE2HD (Z2).

Some Questions:

I'm in Canada....Home Depot is 1.5 hrs...they carry Behr paint but will they have all this stuff?

What is that Zink Oxide stuff? Something that is standard at paint mixing places?

As for rolling.....I've been painting cabinets and using a firm foam roller, I can get very smooth coats.....so I was wondering how using a larger foam roller would work here.

Will this look as good as screen goo?

call them and ask


search for "foam". It's not advised.


I'd like to know that too. Wait for the Canuck shootout on April 17th. Both screens will be there.

Tup-
MMan devised MMud based on his experience with Goo (CRT White probably). With the SM as the base, the MMud rolls on very badly with a foam roller. Switching to a 1/4" nap roller works MUCH better.

Whether or not MMud looks as good as Goo is sort of an individual decision. But as Clarence says, wait for the results of the Canuck Shootout for a direct comparo. But that's a monthand a half away, so maybe try one of these in the meantime.

tup,
HD Canada should have everything you need, but it doesn't hurt to call first. The Behr Canadian paints are made in Calgary according to the cans...

I was able to find everything needed for making the MM mixture in Home Depot in Calgary, Canada. Some of the paint numbers previously posted above are switched around with each other, but are correct for the total mixture. If you look for Kilz 2 Latex Primer (some of the paint mixtures listed ask for it), you won't find it at Home Depot (Not in Calgary at least) but will find it in Rona (Revy).

Darren