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Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions - Page 6

post #151 of 452
He's back!
post #152 of 452
Indeed, and does he love to say it 1001 times
post #153 of 452
My problem is that the wall is not flat so it is very difficult to get good focus at the corners with the uneven studs. It is easier for me to construct a new wall and paint it.
I also have a DaLite rollup (that's UP not down) screen and have problems with waves.

My question: has anyone done an A/B comparison of the complex paint schemes to just a brilliant white wall (or screen in my case). Any real measurements on gain or just audiophile type gobbledegook that "you can't see it so your eyes just aren't good enough!"
post #154 of 452
thehobe-
Prepare yourself. MMan will be back from his trips soon and there will be lots of pic posting in various conditions, etc. Then you can judge.

I believe CMRA has previously posted a few shots of the SD/MM screen versus a plain white screen, but I don't know if those were taken at the same time, with the same settings, etc. Maybe he has a matte white screen lying about that he can use to project half and half for a direct comparo? If I still had mine I would, but it's been gone for awhile now.

CMRA- what do you say?
post #155 of 452
The formula calls for this:

1 quart of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling" $8.99

But there are 2 types:

BEHR PREMIUM PLUS® Interior Ceiling Paint No. 558 (red label)

http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/p...=1050&catId=19

and

PREMIUM PLUS® Interior Flat Ultra Pure White No. 1050 (blue? lable)

http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/p...m=558&catId=19

Can someone tell me which one is THE one?

Thanks
post #156 of 452
oops, got the link swapped
post #157 of 452
kin_ng5-
It really doesn't matter. White is white as long as it looks white.
post #158 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by scoob5555
kin_ng5-
It really doesn't matter. White is white as long as it looks white.

That's wrong.

"Ceiling" paint is best. It is a slight "Off white' when dry.


...sorry Scoob5555, but as you said, I'm back.
post #159 of 452
Quote:


Originally posted by scoob5555


CMRA- what do you say?

Mine was converted to a 'silver' solution awhile back. Both it and my ME screen get floor space...behind the sofa. Both held their own very well until SD/MM.
White, gray and silver have had their day. The real focus should be taking 'light fusion' to the next level. That's what I say.
post #160 of 452
I spent last week working on my screen and I must say that I am very happy with my results!!! I have a Sanyo Z2. Here are some observations/comments for those that are hesitant about a DIY screen.
  • My room is small, so I only need a 82" screen. I am working on finishing my basement, but have to wait for the drywall guy (I could do it, but don't want to and it will probably turn out better if I don't) so I had a 1/8" piece of hardboard cut down to 72"x40.5".
  • I did all my painting on the floor. I didn't have a wall to put the board on and the room was pretty dust free. I can't say I found any undesireable particles that landed on my screen.
  • I used Kilz primer tinted grey first on the board. Two coats to cover the brown board then wet sanded.
  • Silver metallic over that with a foam roller. I thought this was a good idea, but it may have been a mistake. The paint was very smooth, but it was easy to see the lines between different loads of paint. In the end I did 4 coats, wet sanding between each coat. The sanding made the lines barely visible - I had to get right up on it to notice them. Maybe I was expecting too smooth a finish.
  • I used a 3/8" nap roller with MM (original recipe). Wow, that stuff is thick. I now know why its called "mud". The 3/8" nap roller was not very consistent going on. Probably my fault. I sanded and followed up with a 1/4" nap roller. That seemed to go on much smoother. I followed up with sanding and a final coat. In the end, the screen looks pretty much light grey - almost white. When you get up close you can sort of see the SM, but if you didn't know what was the process, you probably wouldn't guess.
  • I was a little concerned because the MM was not a smooth and even as I was expecting. I have painted a lot of walls and they always came out very even without lines. Maybe its because I painted on the floor, but I'm thinking it was the nature of the paint.
  • When I actually projected onto the screen, I could see no lines or blemishes. When I was projecting on my white wall earlier, I could see all the imperfections so I'm pretty confident imperfections I was seeing up close in broad daylight were not really something I should worry about. Perhaps it could be better, but it is certainly better than projecting on a wall.
For $50 I have a pretty nice looking screen. I have a friend with a 55" Mitsubishi rear projection TV that was amazed by the quality and started thinking about how he could convince his wife to let him get a new TV.

I believe a lot of this may have to do with what you are comparing to. My screen turned out great compared to my wall. Perhaps MississippiMan's or Scoob's screen would make mine look awefull. Perhaps a Stewart GreyHawk would make mine look aweful. But since I haven't ever seen those, I'm more than happy. You owe it to yourself to save a few bucks and spend a few nights trying this out. For less than it costs for some box-set DVD's you can make a screen that you can be happy with. And if you decide to get something better later (of course "better" is subjective), you really aren't out too much.

Thanks for the help guys. I just saved $1000 and bought myself a subwoofer.
post #161 of 452
blue-
Glad to see someone else has had some success with this stuff. I hope others benefit from your (and others') experience.
post #162 of 452
Under normal conditions, how long does it take to put together a SM/MM screen?

Do you have to wait 24 hours between coats?
post #163 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ridetheducati
Under normal conditions, how long does it take to put together a SM/MM screen?

Do you have to wait 24 hours between coats?

If you apply heat to the surface, drying times can be reduced to less than 1 hour between coats. I use a mini propane Reddy Heater (65K-85K-100K) set to 85K and placed approx. 10' from the screen. (you can rent 'em) Just wait until the paint has a 'tack' to it, thin start the heater with it pointing away from the screen, sweep it into place with the business end pointing upwards from the floor, and lower it into position dead centered on the screen.

Doing this, I can complete a screen from start to finish in 4-5 hours worth of work. Plus, using the heater for 2 hours after the last coat provides about 1 week of "cure". The screen just gets better as it gets older. All latex based paints have a Cure time, and MMud mix is no exception
LL
post #164 of 452
Without the heater, it took me less than one week. Because I wetsanded a lot, I thought it would be better to wait 24 hours between coats. Although, when I wasn't wetsanding, I waited around 4 hours.

Something to remember... it takes longer to clean up than it does to paint! At least with a smaller screen like mine.
post #165 of 452
Does anyone have a suggested method or set of instructions for hanging and applying a border to a 3/8" MDF 100" 16/9 screen. As well, is it better to hang it first and then paint? or paint it laying flat and then hang? I found some suggestions that talk about building a frame but I was thinking it may be better to screw the screen straight to the wall. Do you think it would bow or warp if I went without the frame?

Thanks for any suggestions.
post #166 of 452
Bruce-
the MDF probably won't sag significantly unless you live in a particularly humid climate. Lord knows it's already heavy enough without the frame, eh? Screw that sucker to the wall and paint it. While easier to paint laying down flat (maybe), it'll be sure to attract dust bunnies, etc. Up on the wall, you paint just like a wall and much less dust will settle onto the surface.

Be sure to prime the heck out of that mdf with some gary tinted primer. It will absorb some paint and better the primer than the expensive Silver Metallic.
post #167 of 452
Thank you very much, I am going to do just that. Another quick question if you don't mind: I was going to pick up some 2" trim molding and paint it black and tack it right on to the screen for my border. Is a 2" border enough? Also is painting the molding sufficiant or is it necessary to cover it with a black material?
post #168 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by BruceMan
Does anyone have a suggested method or set of instructions for hanging and applying a border to a 3/8" MDF 100" 16/9 screen. As well, is it better to hang it first and then paint? or paint it laying flat and then hang? I found some suggestions that talk about building a frame but I was thinking it may be better to screw the screen straight to the wall. Do you think it would bow or warp if I went without the frame?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Absolutely hang it first. But use Mirror Mastic and set it up on a temporary ledge until dry. If you use any screws through the surface, they will have to be mudded and sanded. Besure to use a 4' level and scrape your wall around the screen's projected borders to ascertain if the wall is really flat. If there is a little dip in a few areas, you can fill that area in with more Mirror Mastic. If the wall is too bowed, you must first work towards getting it level.

3/8" ? I'd suggest you go at least 1/2" or better still, 5/8" Unless you wall is very flat or you use "leveling" adheasive, 3/8" can bend around bumps that you'll find hard to see unless you check for them.

My earnest suggestion is to have some help holding the MDF up in place (level!) and trace a pencil line around the perimeter. Then, cut out the center, remove all nails/screws and clean the studs in needed, then Liquid Nail the MDF directly to the studs. If you have 1/2" drywall, and use 5/8" MDF, the remaing 1/8" of protruding MDF allows for several easy and cool Trim options. (see below) Plus, with the cut edge serving as a ledge to hold the MDF in place, you need only to press and block in the MDF against the studs, and perhaps place a couple braces against it until dry.

Once your Screen material is up on the wall, use Painter's Masking Paper and Tape to cover at least 16" out from all edges. If spraying, and your Gun is set to the proper levels of air, fluid, and pressure, you'll have almost no paint going anywhere but on the work area. If rolling, it will allow you to roll past the edges so as to get enough paint at the edges without pausing and getting the resulting "stripe'.

Also, when the screen is on a vertical plane and approx. even with your eyes, you can adjudge far better any weak areas where paint is uneven and correct as you return on a overlapping pass.

Borders? I got yer stinking border!
http://home.mvpaudiovideo.com:81/index.php?Cid=323

This stuff is De BOMB for Screen Blackout trim. It's an adhesive Black Felt Tape that comes in 4" & 6" widths. 25 yards for $36 & $57 respectively. Buddy up and share a roll. Good for at lest two Monster sized screens.

You can apply it directly to a wall if you use the Light Fusion Plastic Mirror approach (butt it up flush with the edge, or you can apply it directly to the mirror for a perfect mask after having adjusted your image to size.

Or............., you can wrap a 1" x 3" with the 4" wide Felt Tape and a 1" x 4" with the 6" version.

Thanks Scoob, for being on top of this thread. Looking forward to your coming into Wayne tomorrow. Call, & email me your cell number.

Just went out and bought a 5.5 HP / 25 Gal. Compressor and a sweet little Propane Heater (30K/40K/50K adj.) for my Jersey Dealer. Being a seasonal item, they are pretty scarce, and many will have to rent if they want accelerated results. That's what I'll need to do in Toronto for the shoot-out.

4 screens in two days time. Same situation as here in Jersey so I'm getting some real practice in ahead of time.
post #169 of 452
bruce
Mississippi has given you detailed instructions which are good, but pretty permanent screen solutions , you were asking if you could screw it to a wall ? yes only it would be preferably to screw them around the perimeter where it will be covered by your border then if for any reason at all you would just simply peel off the border unscrew the screen and you then only have a couple of small holes to fix , also if you screen is going into a finished room you could hang it somewhere else while painting either in a shop or unfinished room then transport it back , thanks Mississippi for the info on the border tape excellent solution . Good point on the painting technique i think most people don't realize that the starting and finishing strokes are where there is the biggest chance of getting imperfections on your finish whether you roll or spray if you start your spray stroke on your screen you will have some problems start and finish off the screen . i'm not sure if you already covered this somewhere else but thought it couldn,t hurt to mention it
bruce ps 1/2" a betterchoice than 3/8"
post #170 of 452
Thank you both for the further suggestions. Unfortunately I already have the 3/8" MDF. I was hoping to screw it in so it could be moved in the near future. I think the wall is pretty flat but I will make sure it is prior to hanging. I get my Z2 on Tuesday so I'm not big on ordering the border tape at this time however I will for a Super Deluxe I intend to try in the summer.

Any suggestions for the border where I could utilize Home depot products to make it? I like the idea of attaching it over top of where I screwed the MDF into the wall.

Thanks again.
post #171 of 452
Sure, a 2" borader will make the screen look professional and finished. Black paint is okay as long as it's FLAT. You can also get some black velveteen material from JoAnn or WalMart to wrap the moldings.
post #172 of 452
Thanks Scoob
post #173 of 452
Hi
I used the HVLP sprayer from Harbor freight today (I'm amazed at the quality of the unit for forty bucks, very good and have some high end tools). Any how when spraying the silver metallic I notice rather large drops that created craters upon impact. I thinned the max amount (2oz per quart according to the behr instructions) but I think it was still to thick to atomize properly. Has anyone seen this and has anyone added more than 2oz per quart for spraying?

Chuck
post #174 of 452
Chuck, try adding Floetrol to the mix. It should thin it appropriately.
post #175 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by scoob5555
Chuck, try adding Floetrol to the mix. It should thin it appropriately.

chuckvp?

Are you using the 1.4 mm nozzel the Gun came with? Or a 2.2 as recomended? BIG difference!

Instead of any water, mix 8 Oz of Flotrol MAX...but start with only 4 and work up until the paint pours without binding and "flopping" out of the Jar. That's the best discription I can make, and comes from watching a lot of SM flop about

In any case, the SM is just built that way, and to get a good finish, one must spray as thin a coat as is practical. Rolling is the same. Too much is "too Bad."
post #176 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by BruceMan
Thank you both for the further suggestions. Unfortunately I already have the 3/8" MDF. I was hoping to screw it in so it could be moved in the near future. I think the wall is pretty flat but I will make sure it is prior to hanging. I get my Z2 on Tuesday so I'm not big on ordering the border tape at this time however I will for a Super Deluxe I intend to try in the summer.

Any suggestions for the border where I could utilize Home depot products to make it? I like the idea of attaching it over top of where I screwed the MDF into the wall.

Thanks again.


Well in that case, locate your studs to the left & right out from "screen" center and starting at the top edge of the board, come in 3/4" and pre drill a 5/32" hole through it and the drywall & into the stud. Use a countersink bit or ream with the dril a cone for ther screw head to recess into. Use a 2 1/2" corse threaded Drywall screw and place one at every perimeter location available That board will lay as flat as gravity and the wall will allow, and you'll have no worries about sagging or warpage.


..................and ya gotta try that Felt TAPE!
post #177 of 452
Thanks, I'll get the flotrol tommorow but the 2.2 nozzel is't available at the Harbor freight B&M so I may have to order it.
post #178 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by chuckvb
Thanks, I'll get the flotrol tommorow but the 2.2 nozzel is't available at the Harbor freight B&M so I may have to order it.

Perhaps with the maximum amount of Flotrol, you might get results. Mix up a full batch, and then try a test amount in the Gun and tinker with the gun settings. I reccomend 60 Lbs @ the tank, & 25-30 Lbs @ the gun. Fluid feed almost wide open, air 4/5ths open, pattern set to just off "Closed".
post #179 of 452
Hi MM CMRA and all,
Time to share my experience with my SD/MM. I have finally taken the plunge and gotten my screen fixed. Because I am based in Singapore, I took an opportunity to grab the UPW, Deep Base and "White Opal" Perlescence whilst I was on a biz trip in Chicago during Feb 2004. When I returned, I was dismayed that I forgot the SM! Drat. Fortunately, I had a colleague who made a trip shortly after me and was kind enough to get a quart for me. I have left the materials lying in my store room for a while.

One month later:
I got myself an acrylic sheet measuring 160x90 cm, approximately 72 inches in diagonal. A month back, I finally took out my Wagner 1800, plugged it into a step down transformer (since Singapore was using 230V), and fired it away. NOTHING came out, all the gun made was a loud noise. Shoot, all the anticipation coming to naught.

The end of story? Not quite. Recently, I moved to a new apartment, I noticed that there's a carpenter with a spray gun and compressor. I decided to approach him for help. After agreeing to pay him for his inconvenience, I set myself up yesterday to get my acrylic sheet.

The carpenter emptied a quarter of SM into his gun and fired a test shot. Too thick he said, without asking, he diluted it with his drinking water. Yikes! Now I got his spit in my SM. He sprayed 2 coats with approximately 15-20 minutes in between. We broke for lunch after that.

Two hours later:
I came back with the SD mix. Heh heh, using a MacDonald's cup as a measuring tool, I filled an empty can with three scoops of these. When I was done mixing it, I handed it to the carpenter. Again, he complained that it was too thick for his gun. Poured quite a fair bit of water (and his spit) into my mixture and started to spray.

The strange thing was by the time he was done with one end, the other had dried up. So, he continued to spray. I was not sure if I should stop him, but I noticed that it dried pretty fast. After applying ~5 coats, it looked pretty decent, and I took it up to my place.

Doing the 'politically' right thing, I accompanied my wife for some shopping. I was excited to fix up my screen. She could sense it. When we finally returned a couple of hours later, I got my old screen down (by the way, it was a plywood with a layer of white laminate) with her help. Re-assembing it wasn't too difficult, but when I hoisting the frame back on to the screen hook, I noticed that the picture frame wire came undone and it was offseted by ~10 cm.

Never mind, I told myself, I will just take it down and adjust it. As I was taking it down, I slipped on one of the ladder rungs and fell backwards! The board crashed against the ladder, leaving a black gash across! ARRRRRRRGGGH.

My beautiful and untested board was damaged even before using it. You would never believe how upset I was. I felt like breaking down. Pacing down in my small dining area for a good 5 minutes, I decided to examine the damage. Hey! It wasn't that bad, the gash kinda rubbed off when I ran my fingers through it. That's hope! I took a wet tissue and started polishing it slowing. Other than a thin streak, it was barely noticable. I quickly got my wife to adjust and set it up.

Eagerly, I powered up my projector and sat down drenched in my sweat. My wife hinted and I should take a bath before viewing, she hates sweaty sofa.

5 minutes later:
Clean and dry, I took the LOTR II and loaded it into my 963SA DVD player. WOW! It left me speechless...The contrast and brightness improvement was immediate. In fact, I could see a bit of defect in the SM (the carpenter used his hand to test the dryness ) I was amazing in the sharpness as well. Also, not a faint of hot spotting that my previous screen had. It was sharp I tell you.

You know what? I am proud to say that this is a happy X1 owner. Contrary to other stories, the colors are vivid and I have not even calibrated the projector with DVD Essentials yet. It was a valid comparison then since my project settings were un-altered.

24 hours later:
Tonight, I watched Underworld and Driven, the dark scenes were not washed out even with ambient lighting; I could never have done this previously. For the Driven DVD, the PQ looked like when we were at the dealer's store, my wife commented; he was using a Steward StudioTek 130.

My equipment used:
Infocus X1, Philips 963SA DVD player and Lexicon DC1.

I know everyone will want me to post screen shots out. Unfortunately, I have a back wall and prevents me from taking the full screen. I will try it this weekend though.

The verdict? Its worth every effort! Thanks MM and CMRA for taking the time and effort to share your findings with all here. Keep up the good work and the spirit of DIY.

Cheers,
Ed
post #180 of 452
Thread Starter 
Dewdrop,

Your in! In focus, involved, and insane! And what a trial. It seems these screens attract disaster! Three different times today, someone or something has rubbed against the wet paint on my screens, Scoobs screen, and his samples! What up wit all dat!

I'm loving your results with the X1. It was the PJ that started my quest to create a Screen that wouldn't take the fun out of owning a inexpensive PJ.

We'll look forward to the Screenies! be sure to try Exposure Bracking if possible.

Maurice
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