Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions - Page 9

Here's how I'd do it.

After making sure the framing is flat, use the 54' Rock.
Use Fiberglass tape, and a 18" Mud Edger (wide knife) to fan out your tape joint to 12" or so.

Prime with Kilz. But add the same amount of lamp black specified in the Behr SilverScreen. bruce warns about over coloring primer and he's right on. But the amount of Lamp Black required to tint Kilz to a sutible Grey isn't very much at all.

To assure youself of a smooth coat, Prime twice, or even wet sand the 2nd coat and prime again. Lay it on thick. This will serve to create a base that will have excellent "Lay" properties, and minimize the amount of wet sanding needed later.

Spray that primer on at 60Lbs @ the gun and 90Lbs at the Compressor. Do the same with the SM. Previously, I was afraid to cut SM with more water than reccomended, but woking with Water/ MM recently has convinced me that you can add up to 8 oz to a Qt if you whip it up good and spray it ASAP.

DO NOT USE VERTICAL STROKES ALONG WITH HORIZONTIAL STROKES.

Use Horizontial only, and at 60Lbs and the right thinned mix, you can easily lay down a 6' swath, and overlay each strip by 2"

Do exactly the same with the MMud.

Bruce, your not reading my posts carefully enough again! I was commenting on spraying, not rolling. When spraying, the multitude of vertical stripes are exceedingly hard to blend, and harder still if applied over previously existing horizontal stripes.

As for rolling, maintaining an even pressure, as well as applying enough paint evenly across such a long stretch is a challange for even the most experienced painter with a well delveloped technique and skill level. When did you ever see any Pro painter roll a wall horizontilly? Maybe to edge wirh a 4" er, but not to cover any large expanse. Standard practice is to cross your verticals with some diagonal strokes, but NEVER with horizontail ones, for much the same reason as you do not do so with a sprayer.


Sure.

1.You cannot tape/mud melamine into a drywall edge. The slick exterior coating will not accept the mud for very long (cracks)

2. The same slick surface does not accept paint very well and requires roughing up a surface that doesn't enjoy being roughed up. It "gouges' easily and then requires even more paint to "fill in"

3. It's hard as hell to cut, and cost more than Sheetrock when buying it in anything over 4'x 8' Also, your wrong...it weighs MORE, not less.

Bonus reason.
4. It does not accept screws into it's surface very well, necessitating a pre-drilled hole with a 'countersunk' recess to avoid "Cratering" that must be peeled away, causing a larger hole to repair, with mud that doesn't want to stick. Priming FIRST can help, but what's the use of buying a White board if you have to treat it like an unfinished one?

bruce, I've used melamine, and it sucked. The White coating's sheen caused Blooming (hot spotting to some...) and any painted finish was subject to lifting. (peeling)
In otherwords, it required so much extra attention just to get to square one, it really didn't offer any advantage over any A/C grade 1/2' Plywood.


Good heavy duty shelving material though.

<<<<<<>>>>>>>

a better analagy (...use the spell check feature bruce..., I certainly have too! ) would be in what direction would you roll a flat door on saw horses, legnth ways or width ways this is what the guy was essentially doing rolling a screen on sawhorses! simple!! less lap lines and quicker .I would imagine that is what you had in mind when you experimented with your 18" roller vertically . [/b][/quote]

<<<< Most of my screens were far too big to effectively roll the actual 8' to 9' width distance without the paint thinning out over the last part. >>>>


Ok mississippi i will give you one bonus one

for the record i think raw mdf board is a better board to work with but your quote said better than melamine so i'll have to defend that [/b][/quote]

<<<<<< I use MDF to blend into drywall all the time. That surface, being a true wood product, easily accepts the muds adhesion. I agree wholeheartedly! >>>>>>>


1 but first off you cannot tape a mirror and drywall together either!!!! or any screen for that matter!! you also cannot mud in a silver-star into your wall but why would you want to unless you felt that as a built in it would be a selling feature . [/b][/quote]

<<<<< I could if I wanted to. What I advise against others with less skill and experience doesn't always apply to me. I do MDF & Plywood as a backing for LF whenever the wall is hopelessly crooked. Then I hang it within a cut out hole and let my boarder trim but up against the edges that protrude. >>>>>


2 slick surface and painting !!! are you just teasing me or was this written early in the morning!!! you are painting mirrors for christ sake !!! at least with melamine one quick wipe down with a liquid sandpaper and she is ready to go .
A good cabinet grade melamine is one of the hardest finishes there is . If you are gouging a melamine board it has already gone through your drywall .[/b][/quote]

<<<<< When rolling, due the thicker application of paint, minute scratched disappear quickly under the paint. But spraying only seems to accent defects, at least until you have laid down several layers. >>>>>>


3 well 1/2 melamine and dry wall are so close in weight per square foot it is negligible but a cut 54" by 96" mdf is lighter than a 54" by 12' piece of drywall and easier to carry home as well without worrieing about damage . [/b][/quote]

<<<< Aww cumon Bruce, think man! Of course a 12' piece will weigh more than a 8' peice. Most Rock can be acquired at 54" in 8' lengths, but if not, cutting the end off to 8' prior to hauling takes care of any issues. >>>>>


4 your lucky you had a bonus answer be cause this was one of your better points
but there is no reason to screw anything into the surface is there ? I mean do you put screws in the middle of any screen really !! be it a mirror or silver hawk . If you want hang it i would screw brackets from the back , or if having a permanent screen was truly desirable you could just glue it to the wall for that permanent feel. I personally would not make any screen permanent there is absolutely no benefit but always possibilities of moving or changing projectors or seating or what ever . [/b][/quote]

<<<<< When I do a Home theater, it is part of the Home, not a temporary thing. Almost all are started from the studs out, and are dedicated rooms. A flush mounted screen (my kind, not any Mfg example ) allows for a thinner trim (looks better) that can lie flat to the wall and cozy right up to, or be laid over the flat junction between screen a wall. If a LF screen is applied to such a board or directly to sheetrook itself, the it only is raised up over the wall surface bu 1/8". Also, my drywall finishing abilities allow me to take a hammer, knock a hole in the center of a screen, and refinish it so as you'd NEVER be able to see the repair. Gosh sakes, that sounds like a brag, but it's actually only due to years of experience of having to cut 14' x 8" holes into existing walls to retrofit in Invisible Stereo. from the very beginning, if I could not assure the Client r.e. WIFE!) that they will never be able to tell I did so, I would never dare attempt such. so certain am I of my methods, my retro contracts state that approval of same must be made by the client, or the don't pay the final 50%. Since my Retro contracts often exceed $10,000.00, that's a $5000.00 insurance policy for the Client. Boy, do they jump on that opportunity, actually hoping to call my bluff! But I have never failed to collect a dime under that policy, so judge accordingly.
And remember Bruce, ALL my screens serve duty as the Center channel speaker speaker as well. Using Glue only doesn't result in a firm enough transfer of the screen's back board's mass into the framing. It (...the screen) just sort of floats on the studs. Compressing the material against the studs with screws makes that board transfer resonant energy many time more effectively. Hey, many more posts like these and you'll be ready to become a IS Dealer! >>>>>>>>>>>

A nd your last comment is where we finally agree on one point. I would not use melamine for a finish screen surface it is too smooth shiny and hot spots , but with a 320 grit sandpaper and slightly sanding just to take the surface sheen off it is actually pretty good , not great!! and only advised if you are bored and just curious as to what it would look like . [/b][/quote]

<<<<Bored? I should be so lucky. >>>>>>>.


Well I have to run Mississippi i didn't even get to give my three points on why it was better than drywall!!!! i was too busy understanding your points . But i am starting to learn how to type and learning some what and still trying to work on my sentence structure and grammar in general .
Have a good day!! and stay away from screens for a while they are too addicting [/b][/quote]

<<<<<< I've noticed the improvement Bruce, and your a good man for working to improve those skills. Stay away from Screens? Heck, despite my stated intentions, the results from the shootout have me not only answering 10+ PMs a day on that subject alone, what's happening is just as you and a few others stated, immediately after the initial Shootout results were posted, a few of the folks out there who want to save some coin, yet cannot/will not attempt a DIY project themselves are now asking how much it would cost for me to do one up for them and ship it direct. Not wanting to disappoint, and yet wanting to basically honor my original intent places me into a quandary. But it seems that the practical thing to do is to do such when I can, and do so at a truly affordable price for those individuals. I'm figuring that a price that is 3/4's less than a SilverStar ($500.00) complete with shipping container is so fair, even the "I told you so" crowd might still see I'm only helping others who desire that help, not taking undue advantage of the situation. One other aspect is that someone else is sure to jump on the opportunity to do so if I do not, and by doing it at such a low price, and by the originator being the one doing it, it effectively should discourage opportunistic individuals or Companies from doing so. At least for now. What's your opinion on this? At 5 minutes per screen, you need to move to Mississippi right away! No typing skills required! >>>>>


Bruce
ps the silver hawk was just a friendly dig [/b][/quote]

Bumped as per PM request for SM/MM detailed info.

See begining of thread

Everything is OK except the Red Oxide. The Panny doesn't exhibit enough Blue push to need the correction.

...........and use ONLY 1 Quart of White Opal.
Rolling or spraying?

Roll on the SM, HVLP spray on the MMUd for best possible results.

Rolling....add 16 OZ Distiled water to the 3 quart MMud Mix
Spraying? Add 24 Oz and have it shaken in by machine.
Afterwards, I use a "Paint Turbine Mixer -Drill type- to remis any seoeration that occurs.

3 Coats? If your rolling them on, do so with an exceedingly light touch.

Absolutely, let the SM dry completely between coatings, and especially before you apply the MMud Topcoat.

Stop applying top coat when you cannot easily see any trace of the underlying SM. Expect the paint to have to Cure for a week before the image really "pops"

Not really. Proceed apace.

biglyle,

The Z3 has a greatly increased contrast value, but it can still benefit from MMud-SE.

Use only 1 oz to no more than 1.5 Oz Silver Metallic to a 3 quart mix to take advantage of the Contrast enhancement. Using up to 4 Oz per mix will greatly increase your ambient light viewing with a higher lumen PJ, but can stifle overall luminosity coming from a sub-1000 lumen PJ onto the screen to the point where you wouldn't want to watch such a image in anything but a light controlled environment anyway.

As a rule, if under 1000 lumens, stay under 2 Oz. SM added.

Be sure to add the distilled (...or at least purified) water, 16 Oz if Rolling, up to 22 Oz. if spraying (....per 3 quart MMud mix.

I'm getting besieged with emails and PMs about SM/MM rolling techniques.

So I'm bumping this for all those so inclined.

Go back to the beginning for more info than you can digest.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=1&pp=30

Well......................., it's been a long day. and MMud-SE has certainly played a big part of it.

Differences? It really all depends on the application and "Stand Alone" vs "Combined Usage".

This thread is dedicated to the use of SM as a pure undercoat. A challenging approach due to the gooey properties of SM, but worth the effort if such effort can be expended.

The chief difference to me is that the SM undercoat works as a contrast enhancing aspect, while also maintaining a higher degree of reverse reflectivity than a "Black" or even a "Grey" anything. Laying just beneath the layer of MMud, which is applied to a thickness just opaque enough to cover all "Grey" aspects of the SM, it acts like a subdued version of a first surface Mirror application. Some say better in that aspect.

MMud-SM is a coating that works two sides of the equation. MMud does too, but lacks as much of the CR properties of MMud-SE, and it's translucency does less good by itself than it does in cahoots with another defining property, such as a Bright white undercoat, or a straight -up Grey one, for that matter.

I have found the MMud-SE makes coverage of a Mirror less problematical, effects correct coverage sooner, and with less thickness. Yet the very "opaqueness" that does this also lends itself to a higher degree of reflectivity (gain) at the "surface" because the "greyness' is an offshoot of the hue of the Silver Metallic. Behr SM is among the very best Silvers I have ever run across. Only it's viscosity (..like hot molasses..) makes it a bugger to deal with.

So, when used as a stand alone, MMud-SE does a great job delivering a brilliant picture while maintaining and even enhancing CR.

MMud-SE on a Mirror ramps up the CR value of the image but does not diminish the "Light Fusion" effect that comes from reclaiming absorbed light and returning it to the surface after it has "Bounced off" the mirror........something that darkens the light even more.

So back to your question. SM/MM is a combo application, one that depends on the defined properties of two radically different paints working in a "Layered" manner to produce a well defined image with a greater CR quality that would otherwise be possible without experiencing the 'worst case' scenarios that HCCV screen can deliver.

MMud-SE is a "One Coat" solution that when overlaid upon a white base, does as fine a job as any paint I've ever experienced, Add to the fact that it can be easily adjusted within the performance specs of almost any PJ over 800 lumens merely by adding the correct amount of SM to MMud and you've got one versatile paint that does NOT require the "spraying treatment' to effect something very worth the effort of rolling.