or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Screens › DIY Screen Section › Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions - Page 9

post #241 of 452
Do not mud the entire screen area you will have to be very talented to make the entire screen surface flatter than factory drywall. Some old plasterers would be able to with a long darby trowel as this is how they flattened a wall. You can always repaint or just slap up a piece of mdf if you make too much of a mess with the drywall seams . but since we are talking primers and such, if you want to really help your wall use a sanding sealer it is very easy to smooth out small imperfections as it sands evenly, i really like laquer sanding sealers they fill voids nicely sand really easy , and can be sanded minutes after painting and recoated in minutes as well. Actually painting a melamine board will save you time and possibly money if you end up spending too much on supplies like sand paper, primers and fillers, it is pre primed white very hard, smooth flat surface and you can use up to a 5' high screen .

Bruce
post #242 of 452
Do the home improvment stores like Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards have this Melamine board you mention? I have found a product called shelf board in 4 x 8 sheets that looked to be 1/2 or 3/4" thick, it had a smooth white thin layer on the outer layers....
post #243 of 452
Thread Starter 
Here's how I'd do it.

After making sure the framing is flat, use the 54' Rock.
Use Fiberglass tape, and a 18" Mud Edger (wide knife) to fan out your tape joint to 12" or so.

Prime with Kilz. But add the same amount of lamp black specified in the Behr SilverScreen. bruce warns about over coloring primer and he's right on. But the amount of Lamp Black required to tint Kilz to a sutible Grey isn't very much at all.

To assure youself of a smooth coat, Prime twice, or even wet sand the 2nd coat and prime again. Lay it on thick. This will serve to create a base that will have excellent "Lay" properties, and minimize the amount of wet sanding needed later.

Spray that primer on at 60Lbs @ the gun and 90Lbs at the Compressor. Do the same with the SM. Previously, I was afraid to cut SM with more water than reccomended, but woking with Water/ MM recently has convinced me that you can add up to 8 oz to a Qt if you whip it up good and spray it ASAP.

DO NOT USE VERTICAL STROKES ALONG WITH HORIZONTIAL STROKES.

Use Horizontial only, and at 60Lbs and the right thinned mix, you can easily lay down a 6' swath, and overlay each strip by 2"

Do exactly the same with the MMud.
post #244 of 452
horizontal !!!! mm did i just hear you right . Did i convert you ?

"NEVER try to roll horizontally for the length of a 8' + screen. It cannot be done and put up an even amount of paint across that wide an area. Roll vertically," "Missississippi "

this quote was in response to my answer to someone about putting down horrizontal passes as to have the least amount of overlaps and start and stops on a rectangular surface , you actually made fun of me inferring i did not know what i was doing

subtle grey is doable darker than sm is pushing it !!! and why ?

"Bettern' Melamine "


mis man define better in your own words !!! you list three key benefits of a painted drywall wall over a melamine sheet, and then i will define what i think are three key advantages of a melamine sheet over a drywalled surface . And mississippi since this is in fun and i want to show you i am fair!!! i do not want you to waste one advantage repsponse to size, as he has stated he was thinking a 54" by 96" size so we have that covered and more.!!! do you want to go first ?


Bruce
post #245 of 452
I have done a lot of testing and from an armature's point of view, the most important piece of advice that I could have gotten was -- make it smooth at the lowest coat of paint possible.

Bumps do NOT get smaller with additional coats, they get bigger.

What I would suggest is to put on a coat of white primer under your gray klitz. I put the gray on with a 3/8" foam roller. I put it on really thick. Two coats, 3/4 of a gallon of paint.

This next part makes a terrible mess. Make sure everything is covered. Make sure the paint is totally cured. I waited 24 hours. Go nuts with 60 grit sand paper and an electric sander.

While you are working you will notice 3 distinct colors. The primer will turn a lighter gray when it is sanded. The low spots in the primer will stay darker. Any REALLY high spots will expose the white primer underneath.

Do not worry about little white dots. Get all of the gray the same light sanded color. If you have any major issues, there will be large entirely white area. If these exist, stop and make the areas around them flat.

Wipe the whole screen down with wet towels. I used paper towel and kept wiping with new towels until the towel was not picking up any gray at all.

At this point, I put another coat of klitz on with a 3/16 inch roller. When this is cured, wet sand. The results were a perfectly smooth surface ready for the silver metalic paint. It not only feels smooth now that it is dry, it feels almost wet.

If your base is as smooth as possible each additional coat will go on smoother and require far less sanding.

Hope this helps.
Matt
post #246 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by bruce can
horizontal !!!! mm did i just hear you right . Did i convert you ?

"NEVER try to roll horizontally for the length of a 8' + screen. It cannot be done and put up an even amount of paint across that wide an area. Roll vertically," "Missississippi "

this quote was in response to my answer to someone about putting down horrizontal passes as to have the least amount of overlaps and start and stops on a rectangular surface , you actually made fun of me inferring i did not know what i was doing

Bruce, your not reading my posts carefully enough again! I was commenting on spraying, not rolling. When spraying, the multitude of vertical stripes are exceedingly hard to blend, and harder still if applied over previously existing horizontal stripes.

As for rolling, maintaining an even pressure, as well as applying enough paint evenly across such a long stretch is a challange for even the most experienced painter with a well delveloped technique and skill level. When did you ever see any Pro painter roll a wall horizontilly? Maybe to edge wirh a 4" er, but not to cover any large expanse. Standard practice is to cross your verticals with some diagonal strokes, but NEVER with horizontail ones, for much the same reason as you do not do so with a sprayer.

Quote:



subtle grey is doable darker than sm is pushing it !!! and why ?

"Bettern' Melamine "


mis man define better in your own words !!! you list three key benefits of a painted drywall wall over a melamine sheet, and then i will define what i think are three key advantages of a melamine sheet over a drywalled surface . And mississippi since this is in fun and i want to show you i am fair!!! i do not want you to waste one advantage repsponse to size, as he has stated he was thinking a 54" by 96" size so we have that covered and more.!!! do you want to go first ?


Bruce

Sure.

1.You cannot tape/mud melamine into a drywall edge. The slick exterior coating will not accept the mud for very long (cracks)

2. The same slick surface does not accept paint very well and requires roughing up a surface that doesn't enjoy being roughed up. It "gouges' easily and then requires even more paint to "fill in"

3. It's hard as hell to cut, and cost more than Sheetrock when buying it in anything over 4'x 8' Also, your wrong...it weighs MORE, not less.

Bonus reason.
4. It does not accept screws into it's surface very well, necessitating a pre-drilled hole with a 'countersunk' recess to avoid "Cratering" that must be peeled away, causing a larger hole to repair, with mud that doesn't want to stick. Priming FIRST can help, but what's the use of buying a White board if you have to treat it like an unfinished one?

bruce, I've used melamine, and it sucked. The White coating's sheen caused Blooming (hot spotting to some...) and any painted finish was subject to lifting. (peeling)
In otherwords, it required so much extra attention just to get to square one, it really didn't offer any advantage over any A/C grade 1/2' Plywood.


Good heavy duty shelving material though.
post #247 of 452
Good morning mississippi i know the last thing you need from me right now is a point counter point argument . But at least this help illustrate the fact that there are different approaches needs and options and where a good idea in your own circumstance might be a bad idea from another view point.

first off with regards to rolling and spraying!!!! i paint walls both ways vertically, . but if overlapping lines and blending are a problem with spraying!!! they are just as much of a problem rolling!! so that is why when i rolled some screens i found it quicker and it was faster for me to roll horizontally not vertically then horizontally in the same coat !!there is no time!!! latex will tack up to quick but all strokes horizontally then one quick back roll along the length again to blend in roller ridges then you are done . Screen painted in less than two minutes . It matters really nothing to me what direction people paint. i was just pointing out a method i liked it is not wrong, or stupid or even impossible just different from your way .

a better analagy would be in what direction would you roll a flat door on saw horses, legnth ways or width ways this is what the guy was essentially doing rolling a screen on sawhorses! simple!! less lap lines and quicker .I would imagine that is what you had in mind when you experimented with your 18" roller vertically .

Ok mississippi i will give you one bonus one

for the record i think raw mdf board is a better board to work with but your quote said better than melamine so i'll have to defend that


1 but first off you cannot tape a mirror and drywall together either!!!! or any screen for that matter!! you also cannot mud in a silver-star into your wall but why would you want to unless you felt that as a built in it would be a selling feature .


2 slick surface and painting !!! are you just teasing me or was this written early in the morning!!! you are painting mirrors for christ sake !!! at least with melamine one quick wipe down with a liquid sandpaper and she is ready to go .
A good cabinet grade melamine is one of the hardest finishes there is . If you are gouging a melamine board it has already gone through your drywall .


3 well 1/2 melamine and dry wall are so close in weight per square foot it is negligible but a cut 54" by 96" mdf is lighter than a 54" by 12' piece of drywall and easier to carry home as well without worrieing about damage .


4 your lucky you had a bonus answer be cause this was one of your better points
but there is no reason to screw anything into the surface is there ? I mean do you put screws in the middle of any screen really !! be it a mirror or silver hawk . If you want hang it i would screw brackets from the back , or if having a permanent screen was truly desirable you could just glue it to the wall for that permanent feel. I personally would not make any screen permanent there is absolutely no benefit but always possibilities of moving or changing projectors or seating or what ever .


A nd your last comment is where we finally agree on one point. I would not use melamine for a finish screen surface it is too smooth shiny and hot spots , but with a 320 grit sandpaper and slightly sanding just to take the surface sheen off it is actually pretty good , not great!! and only advised if you are bored and just curious as to what it would look like .


Well i have to run Mississippi i didn't even get to give my three points on why it was better than drywall!!!! i was too busy understanding your points . But i am starting to learn how to type and learning some what and still trying to work on my sentence structure and grammar in general .
Have a good day!! and stay away from screens for a while they are too addicting


Bruce
ps the silver hawk was just a friendly dig
post #248 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by bruce can
Good morning mississippi i know the last thing you need from me right now is a point counter point argument . But at least this help illustrate the fact that there are different approaches needs and options and where a good idea in your own circumstance might be a bad idea from another view point.

first off with regards to rolling and spraying!!!! i paint walls both ways vertically, . but if overlapping lines and blending are a problem with spraying!!! they are just as much of a problem rolling!! so that is why when i rolled some screens i found it quicker and it was faster for me to roll horizontally not vertically then horizontally in the same coat !!there is no time!!! latex will tack up to quick but all strokes horizontally then one quick back roll along the length again to blend in roller ridges then you are done . Screen painted in less than two minutes . It matters really nothing to me what direction people paint. i was just pointing out a method i liked it is not wrong, or stupid or even impossible just different from your way .

<<<<<<>>>>>>>

a better analagy (...use the spell check feature bruce..., I certainly have too! ) would be in what direction would you roll a flat door on saw horses, legnth ways or width ways this is what the guy was essentially doing rolling a screen on sawhorses! simple!! less lap lines and quicker .I would imagine that is what you had in mind when you experimented with your 18" roller vertically . [/b][/quote]

<<<< Most of my screens were far too big to effectively roll the actual 8' to 9' width distance without the paint thinning out over the last part. >>>>


Ok mississippi i will give you one bonus one

for the record i think raw mdf board is a better board to work with but your quote said better than melamine so i'll have to defend that [/b][/quote]

<<<<<< I use MDF to blend into drywall all the time. That surface, being a true wood product, easily accepts the muds adhesion. I agree wholeheartedly! >>>>>>>


1 but first off you cannot tape a mirror and drywall together either!!!! or any screen for that matter!! you also cannot mud in a silver-star into your wall but why would you want to unless you felt that as a built in it would be a selling feature . [/b][/quote]

<<<<< I could if I wanted to. What I advise against others with less skill and experience doesn't always apply to me. I do MDF & Plywood as a backing for LF whenever the wall is hopelessly crooked. Then I hang it within a cut out hole and let my boarder trim but up against the edges that protrude. >>>>>


2 slick surface and painting !!! are you just teasing me or was this written early in the morning!!! you are painting mirrors for christ sake !!! at least with melamine one quick wipe down with a liquid sandpaper and she is ready to go .
A good cabinet grade melamine is one of the hardest finishes there is . If you are gouging a melamine board it has already gone through your drywall .[/b][/quote]

<<<<< When rolling, due the thicker application of paint, minute scratched disappear quickly under the paint. But spraying only seems to accent defects, at least until you have laid down several layers. >>>>>>


3 well 1/2 melamine and dry wall are so close in weight per square foot it is negligible but a cut 54" by 96" mdf is lighter than a 54" by 12' piece of drywall and easier to carry home as well without worrieing about damage . [/b][/quote]

<<<< Aww cumon Bruce, think man! Of course a 12' piece will weigh more than a 8' peice. Most Rock can be acquired at 54" in 8' lengths, but if not, cutting the end off to 8' prior to hauling takes care of any issues. >>>>>


4 your lucky you had a bonus answer be cause this was one of your better points
but there is no reason to screw anything into the surface is there ? I mean do you put screws in the middle of any screen really !! be it a mirror or silver hawk . If you want hang it i would screw brackets from the back , or if having a permanent screen was truly desirable you could just glue it to the wall for that permanent feel. I personally would not make any screen permanent there is absolutely no benefit but always possibilities of moving or changing projectors or seating or what ever . [/b][/quote]

<<<<< When I do a Home theater, it is part of the Home, not a temporary thing. Almost all are started from the studs out, and are dedicated rooms. A flush mounted screen (my kind, not any Mfg example ) allows for a thinner trim (looks better) that can lie flat to the wall and cozy right up to, or be laid over the flat junction between screen a wall. If a LF screen is applied to such a board or directly to sheetrook itself, the it only is raised up over the wall surface bu 1/8". Also, my drywall finishing abilities allow me to take a hammer, knock a hole in the center of a screen, and refinish it so as you'd NEVER be able to see the repair. Gosh sakes, that sounds like a brag, but it's actually only due to years of experience of having to cut 14' x 8" holes into existing walls to retrofit in Invisible Stereo. from the very beginning, if I could not assure the Client r.e. WIFE!) that they will never be able to tell I did so, I would never dare attempt such. so certain am I of my methods, my retro contracts state that approval of same must be made by the client, or the don't pay the final 50%. Since my Retro contracts often exceed $10,000.00, that's a $5000.00 insurance policy for the Client. Boy, do they jump on that opportunity, actually hoping to call my bluff! But I have never failed to collect a dime under that policy, so judge accordingly.
And remember Bruce, ALL my screens serve duty as the Center channel speaker speaker as well. Using Glue only doesn't result in a firm enough transfer of the screen's back board's mass into the framing. It (...the screen) just sort of floats on the studs. Compressing the material against the studs with screws makes that board transfer resonant energy many time more effectively. Hey, many more posts like these and you'll be ready to become a IS Dealer! >>>>>>>>>>>

A nd your last comment is where we finally agree on one point. I would not use melamine for a finish screen surface it is too smooth shiny and hot spots , but with a 320 grit sandpaper and slightly sanding just to take the surface sheen off it is actually pretty good , not great!! and only advised if you are bored and just curious as to what it would look like . [/b][/quote]

<<<<Bored? I should be so lucky. >>>>>>>.


Well I have to run Mississippi i didn't even get to give my three points on why it was better than drywall!!!! i was too busy understanding your points . But i am starting to learn how to type and learning some what and still trying to work on my sentence structure and grammar in general .
Have a good day!! and stay away from screens for a while they are too addicting [/b][/quote]

<<<<<< I've noticed the improvement Bruce, and your a good man for working to improve those skills. Stay away from Screens? Heck, despite my stated intentions, the results from the shootout have me not only answering 10+ PMs a day on that subject alone, what's happening is just as you and a few others stated, immediately after the initial Shootout results were posted, a few of the folks out there who want to save some coin, yet cannot/will not attempt a DIY project themselves are now asking how much it would cost for me to do one up for them and ship it direct. Not wanting to disappoint, and yet wanting to basically honor my original intent places me into a quandary. But it seems that the practical thing to do is to do such when I can, and do so at a truly affordable price for those individuals. I'm figuring that a price that is 3/4's less than a SilverStar ($500.00) complete with shipping container is so fair, even the "I told you so" crowd might still see I'm only helping others who desire that help, not taking undue advantage of the situation. One other aspect is that someone else is sure to jump on the opportunity to do so if I do not, and by doing it at such a low price, and by the originator being the one doing it, it effectively should discourage opportunistic individuals or Companies from doing so. At least for now. What's your opinion on this? At 5 minutes per screen, you need to move to Mississippi right away! No typing skills required! >>>>>


Bruce
ps the silver hawk was just a friendly dig [/b][/quote]
post #249 of 452
Thanks for the advice MM, and the PM! Luckily I don't have to frame the exterior walls of the basement. We did not go with the normal poured foundation, we use what is called "Ice Block" forms. Basically you end up with about 1/2" of foam on the inside and exterior of the wall, and then 8" of concrete are poured within the forms. You would not believe the efficiency, it is like an igloo cooler. For hanging drywall, there is a plastic grid system every 12" that you can screw right into, so no framing required. By the way, the walls are already very very flat and true...
post #250 of 452
Ok, so I'm sitting here looking at my smooth silver metalic wall. You know what I notice about it? It is not any more reflictive than high gloss, ultra pure white. In fact, I think I could argue that it is less reflective. I actaully had my entire wall painted with the high gloss and the hot spot on a 100 ire screen was brighter and more focused.

My question is, has anyone tried the mud over top of the high gloss ultra pure white? I think there is a chance this might be better. In my tests of the sm/mm, I found that the first coat of mm makes the sample very dark. The grey of the sm shows through but the amount of light reflected is very low.

I also have not been able to see any difference between the sm undercoat and plain mm. So you might ask what I am doing with a sm wall. I guess that I just drink the coolaid the Mississipi Man, CMRA and Scoob are mixing up.

Feel free to call me an idiot bruce. I just wanted to proove to myself that the sm made no difference at all.
post #251 of 452
bon, I sometimes feel the same way. Another bit - I have MM on a small mirror as a test, my wall is MM over SM. When I place a flashlight flush against the mirror I get a nice glow in the surrounding paint. When I do the same against my MM it's the same as against any other bare wall - no apparent light at all. That being said - the wall still presents the best picture I have yet achieved from my X1.

Methinks the MM is a real nice piece of work, but the SM is a largely unnecessary step in terms of reflection, what it does is give a slight grey cast that improves contrast which could probably be achieved by mixing some SM into the MM.

Either way, as I say, it's a nice screen now. What I am contemplating are these new metal products from the linoleum manufacturers - they are making manufactured surfaces with thin sheets of metal on top, with finishes that included mirrored chrome (in other words, a first surface mirror. It's pretty cheap in 4x8 sheets, and I'm thinking that that stuff, covered with MM could be a cheaper, less delicate superplex. I'll let you know.
post #252 of 452
bonfigleo,

>>has anyone tried the mud over top of the high gloss ultra pure white?

I tried something similar. Instead of high gloss UPW, I used a wall sealer which is quite glossy. That's the combination I will use for my next screen.
post #253 of 452
I have no doubt that this sm/mm is going to be by far the best screen I have ever made. I believe there are 2 reasons for this. (They are niether the mm or the sm)

1. I have perfected my rolling technique and that combined with all the sanding is producing a flawless surface.

2. When you work this hard on something, it is going to look great to you no matter how not great it is.

I'm getting Carada samples. I'm trying to figure out how to convince my wife that I need to spend $1000 on a screen even though I've spent over $500 trying to make one.
post #254 of 452
I am too tired tonight to play mississippi!!! but i have one thing to say to you and cmra do not play poker you guys show your hands way to much
PS i do hope scoob get's a fair share of his commission!! he truly deserves it .
you are actually advertising here so soon after the shootout !!!!! and advertising your prices you will charge as well !! and then comparing them to another pro screen's cost , couldn't you wait at least a few days !!!! anyway i knew that this was coming you three had way to much of a desperate push for everybody to get fusioned!!!! I do not care what somebody does but to go so overboard in your unselfish drive for fellow diyers and all your unselfish acts were thick!!! even if you were to never sell a screen!!! let alone now two days after and before the results are out about the screens!!! . it just seems like you are now advertising to get some last minute sales before the results come out . that's all from me today . I have just put in an order for a first surface mirror to play with !

Bruce

PS actually 500 dolllars seems not too bad of a price!! was that including shipping as well? if It looks at least as third as good as an SS then no harm done!! if it looks half as good then people actually will have some value build in '

Sell any thing you want !! I do not care!! but spare us all the sermons on all your selfless acts !!! it is funny we are talking about this again !! now maybe we can at least have some rest in here as you will have to curtail selling your comercial product !!!! go make good screens and sell them!! and then let some other ideas and creativity flow in here. between scoob, CMRA and you there is not another idea allowed with out a debate !!
post #255 of 452
hello,
I'v been looking at first surface mirrors for a couple of day now and can not for the life of me find anything about large FSM on the net...If you don't mind me asking what is the link to were you found these large FSM...

thanks,
lesko
post #256 of 452
Quote:


Originally posted by jsm88
bon, I sometimes feel the same way. Another bit - I have MM on a small mirror as a test, my wall is MM over SM. When I place a flashlight flush against the mirror I get a nice glow in the surrounding paint. When I do the same against my MM it's the same as against any other bare wall - no apparent light at all. That being said - the wall still presents the best picture I have yet achieved from my X1.

The glow is the light refracting as it passes through the surface of the glass before it gets to the reflective surface on the back of the glass. This is why people are using First Surface Mirrors. i.e the reflective surface is on the front of the glass. Using normal glass you might get a slight smearing of the colours.
Quote:


Originally posted by jsm88
Methinks the MM is a real nice piece of work, but the SM is a largely unnecessary step in terms of reflection, what it does is give a slight grey cast that improves contrast which could probably be achieved by mixing some SM into the MM.

You could be right. I think it's the "White Opal" Perlescence that gives the SM/MM system it's good, even reflective qualities, and the SM doesn't do much more than improve the grey tone of the screen resulting in better contrast. A simple split screen (say 3' x1' board) test comparing the standard application method vs the SM and MM mixed together vs MM by itself, would tell a lot. The amount of SM in the all-in-one mix would have to be adjusted to give the light grey tint you see in off-the-shelf grey screens.

Is there any unbiased person out there with the ingredients (and the time) to do this test?
post #257 of 452
What about primering in white only, THEN SM, then the rest of the mix?

Would this give a poor result? Why go grey primer?

(help... quick... I'm about to primer... )
post #258 of 452
I hear white is tough to cover. May require more SM to avoid seeing streaks. Grey is forgiving.
post #259 of 452
ahhhh... makes sense! Thanks!
post #260 of 452
Thread Starter 
Bumped as per PM request for SM/MM detailed info.

See begining of thread
post #261 of 452
Ok so here is my plan, please let me know if I have this right.

My Pj is a Panasonic AE700 LCD, company specs are contrast 2000-1, and brightness at 1000 lumens, screen size is 97 inches diagonal, throw distance is 14.5 feet, room is 100% light controlled

I am painting a sheet of smooth plywood, it helps that I am a profession painter with 17 years experience, at least i hope it will help

- First off I prime with 2 coats of kilz primer tinted grey

- apply 3 coats of the silver metallic

- apply 3 coats of MMud being:

1 quart of Behr Deep Base (1300)
1 quart of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling"
2 quarts of Behr "White Opal" Perlescence
1 "1/96th oz" particle droplet of Red Oxide

If this is acceptable with the panny ae700 lcd then I am all set and ready to paint.
Many thanks to MississippiMan
post #262 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by biglyle
Ok so here is my plan, please let me know if I have this right.

My Pj is a Panasonic AE700 LCD, company specs are contrast 2000-1, and brightness at 1000 lumens, screen size is 97 inches diagonal, throw distance is 14.5 feet, room is 100% light controlled

I am painting a sheet of smooth plywood, it helps that I am a profession painter with 17 years experience, at least i hope it will help

- First off I prime with 2 coats of kilz primer tinted grey

- apply 3 coats of the silver metallic

- apply 3 coats of MMud being:

1 quart of Behr Deep Base (1300)
1 quart of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling"
2 quarts of Behr "White Opal" Perlescence
1 "1/96th oz" particle droplet of Red Oxide

If this is acceptable with the panny ae700 lcd then I am all set and ready to paint.
Many thanks to MississippiMan


Everything is OK except the Red Oxide. The Panny doesn't exhibit enough Blue push to need the correction.

...........and use ONLY 1 Quart of White Opal.
Rolling or spraying?

Roll on the SM, HVLP spray on the MMUd for best possible results.

Rolling....add 16 OZ Distiled water to the 3 quart MMud Mix
Spraying? Add 24 Oz and have it shaken in by machine.
Afterwards, I use a "Paint Turbine Mixer -Drill type- to remis any seoeration that occurs.

3 Coats? If your rolling them on, do so with an exceedingly light touch.

Absolutely, let the SM dry completely between coatings, and especially before you apply the MMud Topcoat.

Stop applying top coat when you cannot easily see any trace of the underlying SM. Expect the paint to have to Cure for a week before the image really "pops"
post #263 of 452
Well I did make a slight change today when I ordered my pj. I got a Sanyo plv-Z3 instead of the panny. Will this change anything in the formulation?
post #264 of 452
Thread Starter 
Not really. Proceed apace.
post #265 of 452
would I be better off using the MMud- SE with the Z3?

I have done a few screens this weekend and will be doing my own this week, and want to make sure I dont have to do this twice.

Thanks
post #266 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

would I be better off using the MMud- SE with the Z3?

I have done a few screens this weekend and will be doing my own this week, and want to make sure I dont have to do this twice.

Thanks

biglyle,

The Z3 has a greatly increased contrast value, but it can still benefit from MMud-SE.

Use only 1 oz to no more than 1.5 Oz Silver Metallic to a 3 quart mix to take advantage of the Contrast enhancement. Using up to 4 Oz per mix will greatly increase your ambient light viewing with a higher lumen PJ, but can stifle overall luminosity coming from a sub-1000 lumen PJ onto the screen to the point where you wouldn't want to watch such a image in anything but a light controlled environment anyway.

As a rule, if under 1000 lumens, stay under 2 Oz. SM added.

Be sure to add the distilled (...or at least purified) water, 16 Oz if Rolling, up to 22 Oz. if spraying (....per 3 quart MMud mix.
post #267 of 452
Thread Starter 
I'm getting besieged with emails and PMs about SM/MM rolling techniques.

So I'm bumping this for all those so inclined.

Go back to the beginning for more info than you can digest.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=1&pp=30
post #268 of 452
Hey MMan, can you explain the visual differences there would be between SM/MM and just MM with sm added into it?
post #269 of 452
Thread Starter 
Well......................., it's been a long day. and MMud-SE has certainly played a big part of it.

Differences? It really all depends on the application and "Stand Alone" vs "Combined Usage".

This thread is dedicated to the use of SM as a pure undercoat. A challenging approach due to the gooey properties of SM, but worth the effort if such effort can be expended.

The chief difference to me is that the SM undercoat works as a contrast enhancing aspect, while also maintaining a higher degree of reverse reflectivity than a "Black" or even a "Grey" anything. Laying just beneath the layer of MMud, which is applied to a thickness just opaque enough to cover all "Grey" aspects of the SM, it acts like a subdued version of a first surface Mirror application. Some say better in that aspect.

MMud-SM is a coating that works two sides of the equation. MMud does too, but lacks as much of the CR properties of MMud-SE, and it's translucency does less good by itself than it does in cahoots with another defining property, such as a Bright white undercoat, or a straight -up Grey one, for that matter.

I have found the MMud-SE makes coverage of a Mirror less problematical, effects correct coverage sooner, and with less thickness. Yet the very "opaqueness" that does this also lends itself to a higher degree of reflectivity (gain) at the "surface" because the "greyness' is an offshoot of the hue of the Silver Metallic. Behr SM is among the very best Silvers I have ever run across. Only it's viscosity (..like hot molasses..) makes it a bugger to deal with.

So, when used as a stand alone, MMud-SE does a great job delivering a brilliant picture while maintaining and even enhancing CR.

MMud-SE on a Mirror ramps up the CR value of the image but does not diminish the "Light Fusion" effect that comes from reclaiming absorbed light and returning it to the surface after it has "Bounced off" the mirror........something that darkens the light even more.

So back to your question. SM/MM is a combo application, one that depends on the defined properties of two radically different paints working in a "Layered" manner to produce a well defined image with a greater CR quality that would otherwise be possible without experiencing the 'worst case' scenarios that HCCV screen can deliver.

MMud-SE is a "One Coat" solution that when overlaid upon a white base, does as fine a job as any paint I've ever experienced, Add to the fact that it can be easily adjusted within the performance specs of almost any PJ over 800 lumens merely by adding the correct amount of SM to MMud and you've got one versatile paint that does NOT require the "spraying treatment' to effect something very worth the effort of rolling.
post #270 of 452
So after much trolling I finally decided to make a go at the LFMM screen. I went with the 1:1:1 mixture (1/96th oxide omitted). 3 coats applied to a 8' diagonal, widescreen ratio mirror.

I used a 1/4 NAP brush to apply very thin coats of MM over the mirror. The first two coats were very thin (leaving a darkish tint from the mirror underneath) while the last coat was applied (slightly thicker) until I could see the blackish reflection of the mirror no more.

All has dried but my initial results are far from what I expected. In effect, the image looks no different than slightly off-white wall I was projecting to before. In the light, the MM is clearly whiter than the wall but as you can see in the picture there is almost no difference.

What did I do wrong? I see everyone raving about thier picture quality andI want to join in. Can someone please shed some light?

In the picture I added arrows to distinguish between the wall and the MM mirror. LF-MM is on the bottom and to the left of the arrow where as the wall is behind it (note the shadow on the right). Also note the blue thingy that rests half on the wall and half on the screen.

Please help me achieve MM bliss.

DJ

BTW, I'm using an Optoma H31 DLP
LL
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Screen Section
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Screens › DIY Screen Section › Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions