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Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions - Page 12

post #331 of 452
Here's the latest formula...

Several people have asked me to cut down the amount a little...
so this mix will make approximately half a gallon (2 quarts of mix) and is more
than enough for a 120+ in. screen. (i recently did two 120in screens using this ratio)

RS-MaxxMudd LL (for lower lumen PJ's, and for completely controlled lighting)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 oz. - Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior (HD) $10
8 oz. - Behr Deep Base Flat Exterior (HD) $9
16 oz. - Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 (Michaels) $8
8 oz. - Delta Ceramcoat Metallic Silver #02603 (Michaels) $4
10 oz. Minwax Polycrylic Satin Finish (HD) $14
6 oz. Distilled or Tap Water

Total Cost = $45

Here is the RS-MMMaxx Questions thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593772
post #332 of 452
When using this formula do we still need to prime and then apply a Silver Metallic coating first? Before applying the RS-MaxxMudd? When reading the questions thread it seems people are using UPW instead of the metallica silver of this thread for a base?
post #333 of 452
archer75,

you are correct. there is no longer a need to apply a silver metallic basecoat.
the best basecoat for this mix... in a light controlled room is a UPW Gloss basecoat.
post #334 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

archer75,

you are correct. there is no longer a need to apply a silver metallic basecoat.
the best basecoat for this mix... in a light controlled room is a UPW Gloss basecoat.

Light control is not something that I have alot of. I have room darkening blinds on all the windows which helps. But the kitchen is at the back of the room and the light there is usually turned on in the evening. So there is always some ambient night except for in the evening after dinner then we can turn off the lights and really enjoy TV.

Here is an example:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v285/a...Picture001.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v285/a...Picture002.jpg
post #335 of 452
Just wanted to drop a huge thanks to all the efforts of the sceen chemists amongst us.

I will now be donating my paint application tools to the Salvation Army.

The RS-MMMaxx potion got me where I wanted to be.

Although, who knows if the 4 inches of paint underneath it is impacting the end result.

Thanks again!

......and until the next formula.
post #336 of 452
archer75,

if light control is not something that you have much of... then go with the regular version of RS-MaxxMud.

use 2 coats of UPW gloss basecoat... followed by 3 coats of RS-MaxxMudd.

here's the RS-MaxxMudd mix for medium amounts of ambient light... again i've cut the mix in half and the result is about 2 quarts of mix... which is plenty for almost any screen under 150in.

RS-MaxxMudd (for moderate ambient light situations)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
16oz. Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior (HD)
8oz. Behr Deep Base Flat Exterior (HD)
12oz. Delta Ceramcoat Metallic Silver #02603 (Michaels)
8oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 (Michaels)
10oz. Minwax Polycrylic Satin Finish (HD)
6oz. Distilled or Tap Water
post #337 of 452
Hey guys,

Well I finaly got my projector yesterday and I have a question or two. My pj is a benq pe7700. 100% light controlled room (13'x20') with a black cealing and the front stage is also black. A few months ago I asked MM for an appropriate mix and this is what he gave me at the time.

Base coat UPW High Gloss

Mix
1 qt deep base 1300
1qt upw flat
1qt WOP
1-2 oz SM (which I was planning on substituting Delta CeramCoat "Gleems" Silver Metallic #02603 instead)

I had originaly planned on painting this onto BOC but now I am just putting it on the wall.

I have already purchased everything accept the SM but it has not been mixed. I have laid down 2 coats of white primer but thats it. Should I change my mix in anyway or is this still the best option for me?

Thanks again guys
post #338 of 452
BlakeN,

much has changed since then. and while the option you mentioned is a viable one....
mm is now using the rs-maxxmudd LL mix for light controlled rooms.

some of the components remain the same... and a couple more have been added...

Base coat - UPW High Gloss (remains the same)

RS-MaxxMudd LL (for lower lumen PJ's, and for completely controlled lighting)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 oz. - Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior (HD) $10
8 oz. - Behr Deep Base Flat Exterior (HD) $9
16 oz. - Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 (Michaels) $8
8 oz. - Delta Ceramcoat Metallic Silver #02603 (Michaels) $4
10 oz. Minwax Polycrylic Satin Finish (HD) $14
6 oz. Distilled or Tap Water

this will work fine on a wall... as many have written back and said they have done just that,
without any problems at all.

for tips, techniques, and questions others have asked take a look at the RS-MMMaxx Questions thread.

and don't hesitate to ask more questions or send me a pm.

-maxx
post #339 of 452
What do you guys use to measure out the ounces? I suppose there is probably a paint measuring bucket at HD or something.

I guess I will take the WOP back and pick up the miniwax.

Thanks for the update PB
post #340 of 452
BlakeN,

unlike black flame which requires very precise measurements. rs-maxxmudd doesn't need to be quite that exacting...


16 oz. - Behr Ultra Pure White Flat - use 1/2 of a quart
8 oz. - Behr Deep Base Flat Exterior (HD) $9 - use 1/4 quart
16 oz. - Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 (Michaels) $8 - use entire amount of both 8oz bottles
8 oz. - Delta Ceramcoat Metallic Silver #02603 (Michaels) $4 - use entire 8oz bottle.
10 oz. Minwax Polycrylic Satin Finish (HD) $14 - use 1/3 of a quart.
6 oz. Distilled or Tap Water - use a little less than a cup full.

or pick up a measuring bucket from HD for about $2.

-maxx
post #341 of 452
Is the RS-MaxxMudd LL formulation acceptable if I have a light controlled room but have white ceilings, light colored carpet, and relatively dark walls? The term light controlled seems to be rather generic. I've noticed that even with the room completely blacked out from outside light, the projector itself makes the room features visible.

Or do you think I should stick with the original RS-MaxxMudd formulation?

I'm using an Optoma H31 projector.

Thanks for any advice.
post #342 of 452
Thread Starter 
Use the LL formula. The HS31 doesn't have any lumens to spare, and it's contrast is good enough it doesn't need quite the boost that a full strength RS-MaxxMudd application provides.
post #343 of 452
Has there been any measured data for gain and half gain angle of the DIY paint formulas?

Has there been any life testing to check color shifting on these cheap paints? I know HD paint fades badly and 1 yr later your likely to have color shift. High lumens are just the thing to accelerate this process. Of course if your using an LCD projector you have that aging to contend with also so a re-calibration every now and then is what's needed.

k
post #344 of 452
Thread Starter 
It funny how here at the DIY level, some request testing proceedures far in advance of those used by Mfg Screen makers.

I've been painting screens for almost 4 years now and I've never seen one fade for any reason, let alone from the blasting it takes, even from a 2200 lumen PJ.

HD carries several differnent paints. Are you saying they all are bad? Are you a "Talc hater" (jka) Does a paint have to be "The Best There IS" to qualify for use in DIY applications?

As for "gain", that term is one of the most ill used phrases around. The SilverStar quotes a 6.0 gain and that is complete rubbish. I got pressured into quoting a gain figure for LF once via speculative assuption based on Vutec's goofy figures and it resulted in months of acromony. It's all 'goofy' IMO.

All gain is measured "on axis" and is the result of not the production of additional light but rather the focusing of light directly back toward the user. This most often results in a narrow field of view, potential for hotspotting, and the need to mount the PJ correctly. PJs that have no image offset fare badly with such screens.

When a screen "looks' as if it is evenly distributing the light across the entire surface, and presents no viewing cone "AT ALL", it is to be considered a superior application to any specialized screen that fits the needs of only a relative few.

If the color shifting (...if any...) is so slight that very little Menu adjustment is required to match up to the 6500k standard, that too is indicative of a superior mix.
post #345 of 452
@ MississippiMan

I guess "NO" is your answer but it sounded more like a Mark Twain story ...

Funny I see gain curves on most manufactured screens and will use measured data when making decisions rather than opinions. The procedure sounds simple enough. Project a test pattern and measure on-axis and every 10 degrees off axis. Create plot with spreadsheet and compare this DIY screen to that one and plain white wall.

k
post #346 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Funny I see gain curves on most manufactured screens and will use measured data when making decisions rather than opinions.

Your the type of person they publish such stuff for. That's the whole idea! Read reviews. Lot's of 'em. Or go around and see as many of 'em as you can.

I like Samuel Clements. He's an American Icon. But no one here has ever accused me of publishing any version of "The Jumping Frog of....."

Besides, he wrote mostly "Short" stories. I do not.

It hurts everyone's head to think too hard about oblique meanings, and things all to easily get misconstrued...., so please be clearer as to the meaning of your pundits, or leave them out.

You might see gain figures stated, but I recall nothing from any Mfg that purports to point out how thier screens may or may not color shift, and to what extent. At most, they say "Virtually no Color Shifting!" and leave it at that.

Besides, gain charts are usually only the product of MFG Screen PR spin, as much as stated Lumens are for PJ Mfg. (most.....not all) I have NEVER seen an explination as to what Gain REALLY is published by a Screen Mfg. in a advertisement OR a Brochure OR even a Manual. It might exist, but I haven't heard or seen of any. Instead, they let a high stated figure do all the talkingt, and leave out things like viewing cone issues, and color shifting, as well as wrinkles, waves, and other nice things.

Can't blame 'em much though.

There has in fact been years of testing and evaluation done. By the "Eyeball" method of observence and record. All that is required is an Avia or Video Essentials disc, a DVD, and a PJ/Screen combo.

To date, and after about a couple hundred various screens and resulting posts, you cannot find a single post about how a MMud or even a SM/MM - MMud-SE - RS-MaxxxMud application required judicious altering of color values in various Projectors to offset large discrepencies. certainly no more so than what the PJ itself had to allow to get it up to snuff.

No matter what else is ever said, all my applications must exhibit ideal tendencies across ALL the desirable and pertinent fields, or they DO NOT make it up on Forum in writing, let alone as a Screenshot. I reccomend nothing that hasn't been proven and accepted many times over. The hard way. By paying Customers. So if such is reccomended to someone who themselves are focused on DIY, then it's a safe bet to make. It might not be easy, or as cheap as UPW-Eggshell, but it WILL be "Mo Bedder".

Now...., back to my Raft.
post #347 of 452
A great explanation on just what screen gain is and how it is measured, and a small explanation on color shifting and hot spots on screens.


http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...reens_gain.htm
post #348 of 452
Thread Starter 
Hey!

The guy who wrote that piece sounds like he's from Mississippi !

Articals like that one on Projector Central draw both Cheers and Hisses.

But IMO, it certainly validates what most DIY applications strive for.

The seemingly heretofore impossible screen.

Maximum gain.
Maximum Contrast.
Maximum Viewing Cone
Minimum Cost

All Resulting in Maximum Satisfaction.

I didn't see it listed there!
post #349 of 452
I've been trying to read through this thread. But perhaps someone can just help me out. I get the idea that the original MM formula with the SM paint underneath mentioned at the very beginning is more to increase contrast in LCD PJ. I'm planning to get the new Optoma H72, I'm currently using the 4805. From the projector central calculator I think I may need a slight gain at the 115" screen size. What would be a formula for a DLP with great black level already, no need for grey. And perhaps a very slight gain. Is it still necessary to put on the SM underneath? I have a mostly light controlled room. Thanks for the help.
post #350 of 452
Thread Starter 
I'd suggest the version of RS-MaxxxMud that I used recently for a Home Show that had a 140" Light Fusion screen and was hit by a 500 lumen JVC D-ILA. On a "Mirror" or a "Board", it does not require the use of a pure Silver Mettalic base coat.

It is extremely "Light" silver in hue. Optima's do sport great contrast, but they usually don't get to their best point without employing the Iris or Black Boosting they posses. That always results in a dimmer image, although in the dark, most do not care.

If you want to do a DIY'er screen that takes complete advantage of your PJs abilities, the suggestion above will do the job nicely. However, there are several other options being explored this weekend at a DIY Screen ShootOut, and they will be tested using a 4805.

Most all are Ambient Light solutions, but some are expressly designed for lower lumen PJs, so they do not contain as much Silver/Gray. None will be on a "mirror" however, so you can see what results can come from using only a white Sintra board as a substrate. The BF entry is a special one, that we hope will surprise and delight everyone. Benven's CG might be another valid option.

I do counsel waiting to see what shakes out, and from there, an effort can be made to adjust the mix of your liking to your specific application
post #351 of 452
Thanks for the info. I really don't want to go through trying to use a mirror. And I like good black levels but I would rather have a good punch to the image myself. I would think the paint that's good for a 4805 should also be good for the new Optoma. I would like a paint that I could just use on a sheetrock wall without anything underneath. Thanks for the help.
post #352 of 452
what would be a good mix for a 120" screen with a good bright projector, (infocus 7210), with some ambient light?
Thanks tried reading every reply but my thoughts are something like a goo digital grey type paint.
post #353 of 452
Okey foget about the goo, (it must insulting to compare).
I am a professional painter and I have tons of equiptment at my disposal.
I will spray on some kind of canvas material or thin plexiglass.
I want to make a 134" x 57" screen. For hdtv 102 x 57 will be used the rest masked.
Movies dark, tv and sports some ambient lighting. Large screen, bright 7210 projecter whats my mix?

I like the properties of the firehawk. I am asking to much, can't afford the real thing.

I read up to about the 5th or 6th page. Sorry I can't take to much time reading every page.

thanks! I will show clips of my professional work if a mix is possible.
post #354 of 452
Thread Starter 
I wouldn't go so far as to say "insulting". Just perhaps inapropriate. And that primarily due to your requested size and opposed to the amount provided, the cost of such, and application issues.

The original RS-MaxxMud formula is your best bet IMO, FWIW Email me for a specific mixture combination.

Here is an Image of exactly the same combo your speaking of.
It's an ambient light shot, so it represents your "lights on" viewing, although the content is Pirates Of the Carribean, a fairly dark movie.

post #355 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I'd suggest the version of RS-MaxxxMud that I used recently for a Home Show that had a 140" Light Fusion screen and was hit by a 500 lumen JVC D-ILA. On a "Mirror" or a "Board", it does not require the use of a pure Silver Mettalic base coat.

It is extremely "Light" silver in hue. Optima's do sport great contrast, but they usually don't get to their best point without employing the Iris or Black Boosting they posses. That always results in a dimmer image, although in the dark, most do not care.

If you want to do a DIY'er screen that takes complete advantage of your PJs abilities, the suggestion above will do the job nicely. However, there are several other options being explored this weekend at a DIY Screen ShootOut, and they will be tested using a 4805.

Most all are Ambient Light solutions, but some are expressly designed for lower lumen PJs, so they do not contain as much Silver/Gray. None will be on a "mirror" however, so you can see what results can come from using only a white Sintra board as a substrate. The BF entry is a special one, that we hope will surprise and delight everyone. Benven's CG might be another valid option.

I do counsel waiting to see what shakes out, and from there, an effort can be made to adjust the mix of your liking to your specific application

MM,
I need the LL version you described above for the shootout. Can you give me a link?
post #356 of 452
Thread Starter 
How about this instead, for the link is to that 'ol closed "The Effort Contiunes" thread:

1 quart UPW
1/2 quart Deep Base
1 quart WOP
16 Oz Water Based Minwax Satin
16 Oz Delta SM

If the Mix is still a little "gooey" thick, it might be better to mix it in a 2 gallon container, and then add either 16 Oz of water, or 8 Oz more Minwax and 8 Oz of water. Remember, I "almost" always spray, and the screen shown was done with such a method. Your rolling.


Originally, the Mix called for 6 Oz of Behr SM

That you can add 16 OZ of the Delta SM and still not get as dark a Grayish hue is what makes it a true "LL" version of RS-MaxxxMud that probably is the best, most simple alternative for modest ambient light performance, and great "in the dark" viewing with a low lumen PJ.
post #357 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I'd suggest the version of RS-MaxxxMud that I used recently for a Home Show that had a 140" Light Fusion screen and was hit by a 500 lumen JVC D-ILA. On a "Mirror" or a "Board", it does not require the use of a pure Silver Mettalic base coat.

It is extremely "Light" silver in hue. Optima's do sport great contrast, but they usually don't get to their best point without employing the Iris or Black Boosting they posses. That always results in a dimmer image, although in the dark, most do not care.

If you want to do a DIY'er screen that takes complete advantage of your PJs abilities, the suggestion above will do the job nicely. However, there are several other options being explored this weekend at a DIY Screen ShootOut, and they will be tested using a 4805.

Most all are Ambient Light solutions, but some are expressly designed for lower lumen PJs, so they do not contain as much Silver/Gray. None will be on a "mirror" however, so you can see what results can come from using only a white Sintra board as a substrate. The BF entry is a special one, that we hope will surprise and delight everyone. Benven's CG might be another valid option.

I do counsel waiting to see what shakes out, and from there, an effort can be made to adjust the mix of your liking to your specific application

Did you get the results of the shootout? I still would like to know what would be good paint for a 4805 or Optoma h72 with a mostly light controlled room on regular sheetrock. Both these PJ's have really good contrast but I might need a little help with lumens to get the size I want. Thanks for the help.
post #358 of 452
Thread Starter 
The DIY AL Screen Shootout was postponed until this coming weekend. It's now the "SuperBowl Shootout"!
post #359 of 452
I just got back from home depot and they only sell Miniwax Satin in 1 gallon cans(41 bucks). Does anyone know where I can buy it in a smaller quantity?

thanks
post #360 of 452
menards, lowes, ace hardware.
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