or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › NEC 42XM2 - Initial impressions
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NEC 42XM2 - Initial impressions - Page 3  

post #61 of 285
Gkouri,

I thought VESA compliant was strictly related to smaller units (like LCD). For detailed physical specs. on this unit, go here...[url]http://www.necvisualsystems.com/corpus/4/H/42VP4-42XM2_IGv36.pdf

Elvis,

Have you tried interlaced DVD on this unit yet?
post #62 of 285
Hi, ElvisIncognito

Seems like people think you're an NEC promoter or something, but I think it's clear from your posts that you're talking about this from your heart and soul (unlike lots of sales people), and are just looking for a really good plasma display that you'd be happy with (like the rest of us).

In any case, I just wanted to say I've been really benefitting from all these discussions on the NEC. Thanks for all the info! It's been really helpful because I don't have any B&M stores that show the NECs.

I'm probably going to take the plunge for the XM2A/S in the next day or so (wife permitting).

Thanks again!
post #63 of 285
Actually you want to go here for physical specs, etc.: NEC 42XM2 installation guide click 'n' go.
post #64 of 285
Quote:
Originally posted by plasmoid
Hi, ElvisIncognito

Seems like people think you're an NEC promoter or something, but I think it's clear from your posts that you're talking about this from your heart and soul (unlike lots of sales people), and are just looking for a really good plasma display that you'd be happy with (like the rest of us).

Actually I think only 1 person referred to Elvis that way and in a joking manner. I think the more common concern was that of giving an impression that only the NEC was capable of giving the "real" experience. We know that there are a number of plasmas that can do just that. However, it's understandable what enthusiasm can do to you. We've all been there.
post #65 of 285
Yes I've been accused myself of being a "shill" in the past. Something that is simply not true. (never heard that term until recently) Thus my reluctance now to post accolades on one brand or type of display over another.
post #66 of 285
ElvisIncognito,
I understand your elation in moving up from Akai, I've done that one and a couple of others (Vizio, JVC) and have found good things and bad about all of them. I have always been initially satisfied for a while until I start really observing objectively. Some show the halos in Nemo some don't. The angler fish scene is a little tougher, how did it handle that scene? What I would help me a great deal in my next choice - NEC or Panny - is and objective description of what you see when you display the gray ramp from Avia or other source. Is there any banding? If so, many, big, small, are the grays displayed accurately or do some of them have another color mixed in? I have found this to be a very good final evaluation for me of the panels display when color and blacks seem good. It might seem picky but is a large investment that we would all like to last. Thanks for all your comments so far and keep em coming. There is life after Akai.
post #67 of 285
Hi all,

Hope you don't mind me parachuting in here from the UK, but I've been trying to find out some info on the very same NEC 42XM2 panel. Trouble is there's a bit of confusion about it on this side of the pond:

According to the stuff on nec uk's website, it appears to be a 10-bit color display - 256 levls - 16.7 million colours

However, on the NEC website in the US it says 4096 steps - 68.7 billion colours.

Which is right? NEC UK didn't seem to know.....

I can't imagine NEC would make 2 different panels with the same model numbers and such different specs.... or am I missing something?

Sorry, couldn't post proper links as it's my first post on the board!

Regards,

Kev
post #68 of 285
Hey Elvis, have you hooked up your HTPC to your new plasma yet? I have some questions on how it handles a pc signal. If this panel is 1024x768 and therefore has rectangular pixels, how would it display a 1024x768 signal from a PC? Does it keep it in 4:3 or map it pixel to pixel? If it maps it pixel to pixel, wouldn't widescreen DVDs played via the HTPC not have the correct aspect ratio since the PC thinks it is in a 4:3 mode and the panel is in a 16:9 mode?

Also, how does the 42mx2 handle non-native resolutions? Is use my TV to play games on my PC, so these questions are very important to my decision. The 50" DLP I just returned handled pc stuff beautifully, but the picture quality just wasn't for me.


Chris
post #69 of 285
8-bit = 256 levels each (R,G,B), 16.77 million colors
10-bit = 1024 levels each (R,G,B), 1.07 billion colors
12-bit = 4096 levels each (R,G,B), 68.71 billion colors


PX-42XM2A = black, non-HDCP, US? Americas?
PX-42XM2A/S = silver, HDCP, US? Americas?

PX-42XM2GU = black, non-HDCP?, Global? International?
PX-42XMGU/S = silver, HDCP?, Global? International?


NEC lists different numbers on different sites. So far, no one has been able to determine what the real specs are. The spec page for the PX-50XM3A/S and PX-50XM3A say both panels are capable of 68.71 billion colors.

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/appl...Product_id=412

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/appl...Product_id=403
post #70 of 285
JM Jnr,

Thanks for clearing the 8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit stuff up! So, by the UK specs it looks as though it's an 8-bit display. That can't be right ?! I wish someone from NEC could confirm this coz I don't want to get a screen that shows the horrible posterization that I get on my Panasonic CRT.

Regards,

Kev
post #71 of 285
I think I've found my own answer about 1024x768 signal being fed to the 42mx2/42mx2/s. In the model information pdf on nec's site there is a nice table that lists all available resolutions and whether they can be put into FULL (16:9) or NORMAL (4:3) modes. It says when in FULL each signal is converted to 1024x768 and when in NORMAL, each signal is converted to 768x768.

So I guess in order to get proper aspect ratio from a HTPC on dvds, you need to feed the panel a 16:9 pc resolution such as 1280x720 and set the panel to FULL mode.

Chris
post #72 of 285
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Murphy Jr

NEC lists different numbers on different sites. So far, no one has been able to determine what the real specs are. The spec page for the PX-50XM3A/S and PX-50XM3A say both panels are capable of 68.71 billion colors.
[/url]

I just called NEC tech support/customer service at 800-836-0655. The person I spoke to said both the 42MX2 and 42MX2/S along with all current MX models have 4096 steps and 68.7 billion colors. I brought up the fact that some of their literature, such as the "Model Information" PDF says that it is only 256 steps/16.7 million colors and he said that was for the old models and is incorrect.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.

Chris
post #73 of 285
Chris,

Thanks SO much for that. I'm hoping that NEC technical are going to call me in the UK tomorrow - lets hope they come out with the same answer!

I'll post back if I hear from them.

Kev
post #74 of 285
For all those hung up on "bits". Keep in mind that nobody I've seen on this board (including myself) has seen any significant difference between 8bit and 10 bit. I think we put too much emphasis on these bits.
post #75 of 285
>>>Hope this helps clear up the confusion.<<<

Well, I was never confused. Instead of accepting things at face value, over a period of three days I spent quite a bit of time reading over the various material that NEC has on several sites, product literature, model specs, owner's manuals, etc. I even checked out a few of NEC's non-English sites, just in case.

And you know what? Not only was I right about the NEC's 12-bit specs being correct, I was right about something else.

I can't read Japanese, German, etc...
:-)
post #76 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jamrd
What I would help me a great deal in my next choice - NEC or Panny - is and objective description of what you see when you display the gray ramp from Avia or other source.
Will check it out & post follow up.
Quote:
Originally posted by mistuk
According to the stuff on nec uk's website, it appears to be a 10-bit color display - 256 levls - 16.7 million colours

However, on the NEC website in the US it says 4096 steps - 68.7 billion colours.
Yeah, this has been an ongoing problem. NEC says that all these (4th gen) panels have "Gamma-12" (google on NEC and Gamma-12) and Gamma-12 is defined by NEC as
Quote:
Processing depth of digital gamma correction, which compared to gamma 10 (with 10 bits = 1024 colour steps) has been improved to 12 bits (4096 steps). This results in a finer almost undetectable luminance gradation especially in dark areas of the image.
There are many, MANY places where you can read that the 4th gen panels have 4096 grayscales - that's 12 bit processing - PERIOD. I'm going to call NEC Visual Systems today and get to the bottom of this once and for all (AND hopefully get them to update their websites.) If I find someone with whom I'm able to have a substantial conversation, I'll post back with details.
Quote:
Originally posted by ctishue
Hey Elvis, have you hooked up your HTPC to your new plasma yet?
Yes, but I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the desktop... I'm not even sure what rez it was configured for (but probably NOT 1024 x 768.) I basically fired up the HTPC just long enough to bring up MyHD and watch some HDTV, so, of course, the screen rez was set (by the MyHD card) to either 1920 x 1080i or 1280 x 720p.
Quote:
I have some questions on how it handles a pc signal. If this panel is 1024x768 and therefore has rectangular pixels, how would it display a 1024x768 signal from a PC? Does it keep it in 4:3 or map it pixel to pixel? If it maps it pixel to pixel, wouldn't widescreen DVDs played via the HTPC not have the correct aspect ratio since the PC thinks it is in a 4:3 mode and the panel is in a 16:9 mode?

Also, how does the 42mx2 handle non-native resolutions?
I'll play around w/that & post a follow-up.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
For all those hung up on "bits". Keep in mind that nobody I've seen on this board (including myself) has seen any significant difference between 8bit and 10 bit. I think we put too much emphasis on these bits.
I have to disagree, Ken. I think this is the key to eliminating posterization. On good quality panels, it may not be noticeable in 99% of all scenes, but on tough scenes like the angler fish scene from Nemo that jamrd pointed out, or scenes from The Matrix where flashilght beams cut through darkness, 12 bit processing is likely to be what separates those panels with *NO* posterization from those with *ALMOST* none (except on really tough scenes.)
post #77 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ctishue
I think I've found my own answer about 1024x768 signal being fed to the 42mx2/42mx2/s. In the model information pdf on nec's site there is a nice table that lists all available resolutions and whether they can be put into FULL (16:9) or NORMAL (4:3) modes. It says when in FULL each signal is converted to 1024x768 and when in NORMAL, each signal is converted to 768x768.

So I guess in order to get proper aspect ratio from a HTPC on dvds, you need to feed the panel a 16:9 pc resolution such as 1280x720 and set the panel to FULL mode.
Works for me, since I prefer to use MyHD to up-scale to (1280 by) 720p for DVD viewing.
Quote:
I just called NEC tech support/customer service at 800-836-0655. The person I spoke to said both the 42MX2 and 42MX2/S along with all current MX models have 4096 steps and 68.7 billion colors. I brought up the fact that some of their literature, such as the "Model Information" PDF says that it is only 256 steps/16.7 million colors and he said that was for the old models and is incorrect.
Cool. Thanks, Chris. I think I won't bother, then. This confirms what I was already quite confident of prior to placing my order. As with JMJr., I did quite a lot of reading from various sources and had made up my own mind on what the spec actually was.
post #78 of 285
Apologies for being off topic, however I know that this thread is following the NEC's. I am trying to order the 42XM2/S and cannot find an e-tailer with the matching speakers. They claim they are not available yet a call to NEC tells me that they are (Part # PX-42-SP1U/S). Any suggestions? I have tried Plasma Concepts, Bestbuyplasma.com and one other.

After all this pain, I can't even pull the trigger! I need the matching speakers and have a strong preference for the Silver/HDCP model.
post #79 of 285
All,

How do we determine if an internet sales site is an "authorized" dealer...especially for the NEC since that is what I am searching for and would really want the $200 off coupon to apply.

Elvis,

You paid 50% more money for the NEC then the Akai....do you feel you got 50% better picture? The Panny 6UY is 20% more than the Akai...I am wondering if the picture improvement scales accordingly.
post #80 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by franz-man
You paid 50% more money for the NEC then the Akai....do you feel you got 50% better picture?
Easily. No doubt about it. I wouldn't hesitate to say the PQ is at least twice as good.
post #81 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by franz-man
How do we determine if an internet sales site is an "authorized" dealer...especially for the NEC since that is what I am searching for and would really want the $200 off coupon to apply.
Just ask them before placing your order. To be doubly sure, you can call & confirm with NEC (1-800-NEC-INFO) - I did.
post #82 of 285
All right you guys...the only thing that's been keeping me from buying a Panny 50" 6UY was the fact that they're butt-ugly (I don't like the plastic-y looking charcoal gray and built in handles on the back). I really wanted a silver bezel and was hoping the new Viera series would have it, but with all the excitement around the NEC's I started looking into them.

At nearly the same price, I get the aesthetics I've been looking for, picture quality supposedly near or equal to the Panny's, and computer synch capability better than any other plasma out there (I have an HTPC which will be 80% of my viewing...DVD, Games, and SageTV for SD). So I placed my order on a 50XM3/S on Saturday, and it will hopefully arrive before the week's end. I'm hoping the earlier posts I saw about the 50XM3 being extremely prone to image retention is over-stated or not a problem on the newer "/S" models.

Will update all of you after I get a chance to play with it this weekend. Wish me luck!
post #83 of 285
Hi Elvis,

Thanks for your valued posts. I'm giving serious consideration to the NEC instead of a Panny 42HD. I'm in the UK too.

Could you please comment on black levels on the NEC when viewing in a darkened room. Are they still black or dark grey? This is very important to me. Also, any grey or green pixel noise in dark areas?

Thanks in advance.

JP.:)
post #84 of 285
Did you get the matching speakers? Where did you buy from?
post #85 of 285
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisIncognito
I have to disagree, Ken. I think this is the key to eliminating posterization. On good quality panels, it may not be noticeable in 99% of all scenes, but on tough scenes like the angler fish scene from Nemo that jamrd pointed out, or scenes from The Matrix where flashilght beams cut through darkness, 12 bit processing is likely to be what separates those panels with *NO* posterization from those with *ALMOST* none (except on really tough scenes.)
One of the reasons I think there's too much emphasis on bits is that both of my plasmas had been 8 bits, the P50 and the Fujitsu ED 42". The P50 shows less posterization (to the point of being virtually non-existent) than the Fujitsu 42" ED. Both have 8 bit processing, so there's more than bits that account for this disparity. Additionally, the new 42" ED Fujitsu with TEN bit processing yields an almost identical picture to the 42" ED with 8 bit. There's more than bits going on here, at least that's the way I see it.
post #86 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kaspj
Could you please comment on black levels on the NEC when viewing in a darkened room. Are they still black or dark grey? This is very important to me. Also, any grey or green pixels noise in dark areas?
I wish there was a simple, easy answer to this, but it's a bit complicated...

First of all, I'm not the *best* person to ask, because for me, HT takes place in the living room, and my living room has BIG TIME light control issues. That said, I can achieve near total darkness at night. Using the HTPC, and bringing up the forum, the black background is absolutely pitch/jet black. So, that tells you what the panel is capable of. Now, then, when I'm watching a DVD, sometimes blacks are BLACK, and sometimes they are dark gray, but this is clearly an issue with the source media. Beyond that, there are 4 gamma level settings, each providing a progressively darker image. I like level 1 - the brightest. You may prefer 2, 3 or even 4 if this is such a big issue for you. Then there's the picture mode... I prefer "Bright", which is very dynamic and vivid. But you'll probably get blacker blacks with "Theater 1" or "Theater 2".

There are many, many adjustments that can be made to the picture. It may take you a night or two to get it dialed in exactly the way you like it, but CAN/WILL the NEC produce pure blacks? Absolutely.
post #87 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jcruse
I'm hoping the earlier posts I saw about the 50XM3 being extremely prone to image retention is over-stated or not a problem on the newer "/S" models.
I missed those posts, and forgot to comment on this little quirk of the NEC... When I first fired things up, I threw in Pirates of The Caribbean (we had just watched it recently and it was the only DVD sitting out.) I had the DVD menu up (with the big "PIRATES" logo) for maybe 15 seconds... when I selected "Play", the screen went blank and - THERE IT WAS - a residual of that DAMNED menu! I nearly soiled myself! I thought I'd ruined my new toy!

Eager to check out the PQ on this thing, I went ahead and watched part of the movie. When I ejected it, I was dismayed to still see that stupid residual menu. I had already explored the manual pretty thoroughly, so I knew that NEC documents how to get rid of this - there's quite a bit of stuff built in that's geared toward either preventing or correcting this problem, so I took a deep breath and told myself it was going to be OK, and vowed to run the wiper utility before going to bed. I then pressed forward and watched numerous other DVDs. In my excitement over the PQ, I forgot all about it until I read your post just now.

I just went and checked it out... it's gone. Not there any more. It may have gone away the same night, or the next day or the day after - I don't know for sure, but it's definitely not there, so I'm not sure this is a HUGE deal... just something to be cognizant of (and try to avoid.)
post #88 of 285
Quote:
Originally posted by gkouri
Did you get the matching speakers? Where did you buy from?
No, I didn't get the matching speakers...my sound system (Magnepan 3.6 mains, CC2 center, Innersound Monoblock amps) cost quite a bit more than the plasma screen itself, and I will be using that for sound. I purchased from plasma concepts, one of the forum sponsors. Bob there stated that he prefers the picture of the Panny, but once he found out I'd be using a computer immediately switched his recommendation to the NEC, stating that the NEC was much friendlier with PC's (which I had already guessed given the large # of resolutions that the NEC can synch with)
post #89 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
One of the reasons I think there's too much emphasis on bits is that both of my plasmas had been 8 bits, the P50 and the Fujitsu ED 42". The P50 shows less posterization (to the point of being virtually non-existent) than the Fujitsu 42" ED. Both have 8 bit processing, so there's more than bits that account for this disparity. Additionally, the new 42" ED Fujitsu with TEN bit processing yields an almost identical picture to the 42" ED with 8 bit. There's more than bits going on here, at least that's the way I see it.
When reality contradicts theory... on the next Geraldo. :D

You may be right, Ken. Have you compared the two with really difficult scenes (with very bright-to-very dark gradients?)
post #90 of 285
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisIncognito
Then there's the picture mode... I prefer "Bright", which is very dynamic and vivid. But you'll probably get blacker blacks with "Theater 1" or "Theater 2".

Elvis, this kind of surprised me. In your other posts you emphasized the importance of the "reality" aspect of the picture like I do but yet you put the picture into a "dynamic" mode. I've got that type of setting on the Fujitsu too (they're probably somewhat comparable in their effect) but I find that a less dynamic picture is more 'real' and believable and the dynamic is too hyped and artificial. Have you tried living with a somewhat more subdued setting to see if you can get a more lifelike picture?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › NEC 42XM2 - Initial impressions