Philips 30pw850H questions/comments

Spent the better part of the afternoon fiddling around in the service menu on this HDTV. I've had it for about 2 weeks and I'm contemplating returning it to BB if I can't figure out HOW to get the overscan set properly among some other issues. I calibrated the overscan on the AV4 input (where my Progressive scan DVD is hooked up) via the test pattern on the new DVE and the overscan seems more appropriate through this input from my DVR (SD MODE) on this input than it does on the other HD input.

But on AV1 where I have my D* E86 STB hooked up (all of my HDTV'S have E86's) I am able to get the "HDNET" bug to now fit on the screen whereas before I had "HDNE" in the bottom right. I was also able to get the set to where I was content with the scoreboard in the upper LH corner for the hockey game replay on HDNET as well. Previously (on both HD inputs---I tried both) the scoreboard was cut off....as was a few other graphics on HDNET/DISC HD...but never ESPNHD that I could tell). But there are a few other troubling issues/concerns I have.

For some reason, in 1080i mode, the screen seems to "move" (or throb) when there is a change in the contrast/brightness of a scene....or a camer angle change. It's most noticeable when I stare at a logo in the bottom RH corner of the screen...most noticeably on HDNET/DISCOVERY HD....because it seems on those channels the logos on RIGHT ON THE EDGE. Don't see this noticeable with ESPN-HD or any of my local HD channels. Or maybe it's just that I "notice" it now. For example, while watching HDNET just now the "Heart" concert had a lot of flashing lights......and quite often "HDNET" would become "HDNE"....and then go back to "HDNET". I've turned down the brightness on the set...to I think around 40. It was even more noticeable on camera angle/shot changes on Discovery HD. I'm not sure if "move" is a good way to describe it.....but to my eyes it seemed that the images weren't stationary. I have NEVER NOTICED THIS on my other 2 HDTV's (50" RPTV Toshiba and 17" LCD Philips). I'm wondering if this is something other Direct View HDTV owners experience???

When I compare the overscan to the picture on the 17" LCD Philips, it seems that the 17" LCD "reveals" or shows a good percentage more additional "picture" than the 30" Philips can. But, when I went into the service menu on the 30", I COULD NOT get the EW width setting to mirror what I was seeing on the 17" LCD. The accessible picture would just "end" on the sides, where the 17" was still showing what the actual scene was "beyond" the field of vision of the 30" view. To my eyes, it almost looked like the 30" was "zooming in" whereas the 17" and my 50" had a "real" 16:9 picture. Damn strange. What could cause this? I know the 30pw850H "locks" when it receives a 1080I signal. The non-HD channels seem fine as far as the overscan goes. No issues there. I *think* I understand overscanning a little and can comprehend *some* of the geometry settings and what part of a picture a set can "hide"........but this 30" didn't even seem to HAVE the ability to "see" what my 17" LCD could......or the 50" for that matter. It was just black lines on the sides whereas my other 2 sets had additional "imagery" on either side. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I can describe it.

Also---there seems to be NO WAY to adjust the sharpness on either CVI/HD input....but it "exists" on the various picture settings that are "stanrdard" on the TV. Would this be somewhere in the service menu? I reviewed and printed out all the service menu listings that I could from this forum.......and a few from some other forums.......but I didn't see a way to adjust sharpness from within the SM. Same thing goes for SVM.

The picture itself on this set seems "washed out" when compared to my other 2 HD sets "out of the box". The other 2 sets I tweaked by sight and trial and error. This one seems a bit more trickier than I expected. Today WABC_DT was broadcasting their demo video on one of the digital subchannels. I was amazed at how much more I could "see" on the 17" and the 50"......that I FOR THE LIFE OF ME COULD NOT reveal/see on the 30"!

I was in the SAM (Service Menu) while I was tweaking the signal on AV1/4 so I was able to keep the test patterns up on the digital subchannel....but I COULD NOT find any way to "get" the actual images on the 30" to even semi-look like the 17" or the 50"as far as what "fit" on the screen.

What am I missing? Has anyone else with this TV had issues with HDNET or Discovery HD with regards to the bugs on the bottom right?

Also---does it take anyone else's TV a good 10-12 seconds to display a picture/sound after you turn on the set? My wife and I laugh about it....it's like turning on an old fluroscent light fixture.........

I also turned on the Virtual Dolby Digital while I was in there. Pretty cool. I'm rambling at this point. I think I'm punch drunk. Anyone care to point this dope in the right direction?

Help.....

I'm not sure WHAT I was expecting with regards to the overscan issue......but what I WASN'T expecting was to enter the Service Menu, do my EW Width adjustments and just see NOTHING but a black line RIGHT next to "HDNET" on the side of the screen.......while when looking at my LCD I clearly have another 1/2 inch or so of content plainly visible to either side of where this 30" CRT "cuts off". That's what's got me scratching my head.

I didn't expect to hear that there was a power supply issue with this line. Oddly, I only REALLY notice it when in the 1080I mode (AV/1)....not in SD modes (AV2) or when I Have my E86 running through my DVR and into AV4 via component cables.

AFA getting into the service menu, I was hesitant at first. But I just got SO PI$$ED as I started comparing the "view" on this TV to my other 2 (which I honestly never AVIA'D or DVE'D) that I dove in.

Try these links for info:

http://www.freelists.org/archives/te.../msg00575.html
http://www.***************.com/htsth...5&o=31&fpart=1
http://home.tiscali.nl/m.majoor/tv__...rvice_mode.htm

I also came across this posting in the PHilips YahooGroups forum:

Using the remote press 062596 and then "exit". This will get to
the "SAM" section of the service menu. A list of items will appear on
the left. Scroll down to the geometry selection. The submenu from
here will allow you to adjust any portion of the geometry.

Each input has it's own set of values. Therefore, ensure that you are
on the proper input when making adjustments. After making the
necessary mods, press "3" to save the values. Now without exiting the
service menu you can use the AV selection from the remote to move to
another input. Repeat the process as above and remember to press "3"
after each set of adjustments.

When all done simply power off and power on, and viola.....

For me, I did the above to access the menu....but what I did was utilize the "AV" button on the remote to toggle to different inputs, mainly to get to AV1 and AV4 after I got to the geometry submenu. On the AV1/AV4 there were DIFFERENT VALUES assigned to each entry than were assigned to the non-HD/progressive scan inputs. In other words, when I entered the MAIN submenu for EW Width it stated 13 I believe. Then I hit the A/V button on the remote to go to CVI/AV1 and AV/4 and the value for EW Width wasn't 13 it was 18 or some number like that. There was also a "1080I" text next to the value.

I only messed around with AV1/AV4 and AV2. When I was done with a particular input I entered" 3" to save the value....and the screen would "blank out" and go to the main submenu (i.e. EW Width where I started). I would then hit "3" to save from there and then I turned off the power with the remote.

Make sure you right down the values that are on the screen for each associated setting. I printed out EVERYTHING I could and sat down with that in front of me.

Make sure no one is around to bother you. Trust me.......

From what I remember (I just woke up and I'm not near the TV) yesterday when I was in the SAM (the TV says this in green IIRC in the upper RH corner when you enter the menu).........When I went to input CVI...in my case the TV recognized the 1080I signal from my D* STB......and said so on the screen "EW width.....22 1080I". Then, when I toggled to input AV4 with the AV button on the remote, I believe it stated "EW width.....16 480P". So I'm not sure if you fool with 480P on AV4 if it's the same setting for 480P no CVI. I'll have to go back and check. Right now the only inputs I had anything hooked up to was CVI, AV4 and AV2...and, for me with the E86, it's an annoyance to hit "Action/Input" to toggle between HD and SD signals.

Edit: The way I would describe the "image moving" scenario I talked about is kind of like an "ebb and flow" effect. When the screen would get bright (in a scene or scene change) I would notice the screen bug in a corner or a scoreboard "expand"....but when the scene/screen would get darker the bug/scoreboard would 'ebb" back or un-expand......if that makes sense. I only notice this when on 1080i and don't seem to notice it on 480p or 480i.

I wish I knew if there was a way to disable SVM to see if it would eliminate any of the edge enhancements I *think* I notice. Or for that matter a way to turn down the sharpness....as It's weird that the Factory settings for those "picture" values (Movie,multimedia, sports, etc...) have different sharpness amounts that you seem to be able to adjust in the SAM....but not your "personal" picture settings for when you are in AV1 or AV4. I wonder if the sharpness setting in that mode is taken from AV1 or AV2-3???

When I started yesterday, I wasn't using the "3" input after setting the width where I wanted it. Then I would "back out" of the SAM from what I can recall by hiting Status/Exit and then Menu........and shutting off the TV via the remote. Then I'd turn the TV back on and the overscan would still be there. Then I would go BACK into the SAM and I'd see the values "didn't take". Then I went to the Yahoogroups Philips board (which seems devoid of any useful content lately with the exception of porn related posts ) and found the post about entering "3" and toggling between the AV inputs.

I haven't tried to go into the "customer service mode" or the "covergence mode" if they even exist. Having 2 kids running around while doing this yesterday was a chore. I should've done it at night with NO ONE around...including my wife.

I actually tried that the first 2-3 times when I exited the menu, but every time I turned the TV back on, the EW width that I was trying to "change" was back to it's original state. It was only after I found the post on the Yahoogroups site stating to hit "3" after adjusting each setting that my set was able to "save" my changes. For some reason, only after hitting "3" when I was in 1080i (for me CVI) and 480P (when I was in A/V 4) were my changes saved.

On a related note, which setting in the SAM will allow me to adjust the "bowing" that I *think* I'm seeing when I'm viewing a 4:3 digital signal? Is it the "hor-bow" setting? What I'm seeing is (for lack of a better description) is something like this on the sides of a 4:3 image when I'm on a digital channel not broadcasting in 16:9:

( 4:3 image)

Where the "(" above are the edges of the 4:3 image on my 16:9 screen.

Though not as exaggerated. But the lines are curved somewhat when looking at it from top to bottom. It's easy for me to see this on the local CBS affiliate because they use grey bars not black when they aren't passing a 16:9 image. And I know it's not the station itself because it's also evident on other D* HD channels (Discovery HD and HDNET when they show commercials) and several other local Digital channels whereas on my other HDTV's the geometry seems perfect.

Thanks for the "translation". I'm going to give the parabolic an adjustment and see what happens. I'll also try to save the settings WITHOUT the "3" entry and see what happens.

I'm also *contemplating* toying with the "Sharpness" settings in the Smart Settings/Personal Submenu. I figure........if it SHOWS sharpness as "being there" it *may* be adjustable...........right ?!?!!?

On a direct view TV such as this, how would one accomplish this? Through the convergence menu? Or havning a tech come in and do it from within the TV? I've actually only thought of Projection TV's when hearing focus adjustments........then again I haven't had a Direct View Widescreen Tube TV for that long.........

The other "weird" thing with this TV was RIGHT out of the box (and it seemed to be a brand new UNOPENED box from Best Buy) I thought I had a problem with the TV. The picture or "field of vision" seemed "tilted or skewed. After fiddling around in the REGULAR menu and RTFM, I noticed there was a "rotation" setting. For some reason this set was set to "12"...and bringing it BACK to ZERO leveled off the picture.

Did anyone else have to adjust the rotation out of the box.......or should I say "was anyone's rotation NOT at 12"??? The other odd setting on the TV was that it was in 16:9 ZOOM mode (think that's what it was called) and I had to set it to "Widescreen" on one of the inputs (AV2) maybe??? So I can understand how someone would hook this TV up and NOT be able to figure out how to operate it (since most people don't RTFM).

This is my 2nd Philips HDTV (the other is a 17" LCD WS). Oddly, this TV is able to be "turned back on" and stay on AV1/AV4 and the TV "reads" an HD input (1080i). On my 17" LCD from Philips EVERYTIME I turn it back on I have to hit the "HD" button on the Philips remote because the TV doesn't seem to be able to be turned back on in HD mode.

Go figure............maybe I'll have to check the SAM on that TV and see if it's an option .........

Went back into the SAM...my SW Version/ID is: EM1U21-1.2. Not sure what the build date is as I need another 20 hands to move this heavy behemoth around. I'll have to see if it's on the box.

I *think* since I started moving the overscan around I've "revealed" some of the dark banding. I *think* I noticed it during the hockey game on Sunday (on a white background).

Also went back in and tried to "see" if there was a way to set the sharpness in the AV4 or CVI modes. And I *think* there is. My PERSONAL setting in CVI mode for the picture settings WAS "84" when I started this excersize in angst . Too high for me. I wanted to try and "tone it down" since when I switched to the "weak" signal picture setting (which had a setting of 14) the picture looked *somewhat* better...more definition and less "bleeding/murkiness" to me. So I went back into the SAM, toggled to the Smart Settings and then, went down to "weak" picture mode. I then toggled the "AV" button on the remote to get the CVI input screen to come up and my 1080i picture screen came up. I had on the "Over Ireland" Documentary on HDNET.

Hopefully I'm remembering these steps in order. I hit the "picture" button on the remote and I was able to see the picture "modes" toggling in red at the top of the screen (PERSONAL/MOVIE/MULTIMEDIA/SPORTS/WEAK). While all the settings for WEAK (BRIGHT/COLOR/PICTURE/SHARPNESS/TINT) were up I toggled the picture button over so the top of the screen said PERSONAL and changed all the settings for WEAK to match what I had for PERSONAL on my original CVI mode (I wrote them down before I went IN to the SAM---Brightness, Color and Picture). I then hit "3" to save these settings and this "action" returned me to the original SAM screen (on my TV it's blue). I turned the TV off from there.

When I turned the TV back on and went to CVI my SHARPNESS was STILL at "84" for PERSONAL....even though I had assumed that by adjusting the WEAK settings in the SAM it wuold be turned down to 14. So I pulled up the "weak" settings via the picture button and THEN went into the MENU and made the WEAK settings for BRIGHT/COLOR/PIC to what they were in my personal settings. When I THEN toggled BACK to personal, the settings I had JUST made for WEAK were now on the screen under the PERSONAL picture settings. Not sure WHAT made them change over. But, now my SHARPNESS is 14 in personal.......whereas before it was 84. And the color/brightness/picture are where I want them to be.

It also looks like you can adjust the TINT in the SAM for each picture setting.......but I didn't do that.

So, it seems you CAN adjust the sharpness for the CVI/AV4 input from the SAM. It's just a question of IF you can do it for your "personal" settings. At this point I'm not sure if you can just MANIPULATE it right from the MENU/Picture button or if I did something in the SAM to get it to "accept" it.

YMMV.

In my case, the reason I noticed it was because when I was watching HDNET I started to see the large amount of overscan on the sides. Then, when I thought I had it adjusted and I came out of the SAM I was watching "Higher Definition" and they had a lot of bright scenes with flashing lights.....and all of a sudden I realized that the EW width was set to where it SHOULD be, but the brightness/darkness was causing an "ebb and flow" effect with the bug everytime the scene would change.

I actually STILL notice it.....but I'm trying not to notice it as much.....

I haven't "toyed" with any additional settings since my flurry of weekend e-mails

I'm going to give it a few days and see how these "changes" I've made pan out. Then I'll go from there. I still have 12 days or so to return the TV....and I'm going to wait and see if Best Buy sales prices anything else "in the same range" for what I paid for this one.

I know that you "get what you pay for"......and in my case this is a TV for the bedroom.......and it'll only be watched at night (mostly by the wife---so her idea of "perfect" is of a lesser critical nature than mine).

I posted the question of whether or not the SVM can be turned off on the Yahoogroups Philips site......but no responses yet.