San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 9

If you look here you can get a list of the stations and their rf and psip channel numbers. All of the the majors and the ones you get are at the same location. All are at essentially full power.

If I had to guess it is your antenna and/or your orientation. What is your antenna? if it's a uhf/vhf combo, you might try and see you can get the analog stations. if you can get the analog stations, then chances are good that you can get the digital. note that for sutro, all of the stations are uhf for ATSC.

Keep providing details and maybe we can help.

jeff

I have two of these and they have both lost Closed Captioning from
KGO. My other two non Samsung HD-STBs are still receiving it. Anyone
else having this problem? I have E-Mailed the KGO engineering
department about this. I was receiving C.C. from them before.
Something has changed.

I've got a 'green' zone HD antenna, UHF & VHF. According to antennaweb.org...all of the stations should, in theory, come in about the same since they're all coming from the same tower (which is why I think it's odd that the major networks don't seem to). I'm not really concerned with NBC...no way I'm pulling that from San Jose.

I can try working with the orientation a bit, but it's an omnidirectional antenna (perhaps an issue)...so if it gets some of the channels from Sutro OK, I had assumed it would get them all.

Okay. green areas. Are you mounted outdoors?

If so, you may just need a higher gain antenna. you could try a channel master or winegard 4 bay bow tie (e.g. cm 3021).

If you need to deal with multi-path (and still have high gain) try a yagi like the winegard pr-9022 or the smaller pr-9018.

Another couple of options would be a silver sensor or if you can find it a r-s double bow tie. Both of these last two are good options for an indoor install (although I used the DBT outdoors for awhile).

take a look here for a slick presentation of antennas.

I couldn't find jergio's antenna there, but that should get you started.

I'm betting it's your antenna and/or pointing.

Best,
jeff

(post has been edited to be more correct)

I just moved to a weet spot South of Market, but when I lived in Nob Hill, I couldn't get all the stations from one antenna position. I found that by minutely adjusting my rotor I could get each station to come in. So don't assume that because you can get some sutro stations and not others you're screwed. Try making minute adjustments before you throw in the towel.

I have been trying to receive KTEH DTV signal since several guides are indicating it is on channel 50. Does anyone in the Bay Area get this channel? How is the reception? Channel 48 is broadcasting from the same location with similar power and I get it fine.

GregF,
I don't follow your logic. I'm 40+mi from the transmitter. In SF proper, you should be bathed in rf. a coat hanger should get the transmissions. Also I think you're a bit misinformed. All sutro stations are at full power and have been for some time.

I think you'll find that most issues are related to having the wrong tool for the job (read this as the incorrect antenna, STB, etc.).

Best,
jeff

Being bathed in RF is not always a good thing, many of these signals will actually overload the receiver frontend requiring an attenuator, plus being in SF you are subject to massive multi-path issues bouncing around the buildings and hills there. Being 10-40 miles away sometimes creates a much more reception friendly situation. It can be so bad, even if the coat hanger would work, just moving it around the room it's in will give drastically different results.

GregF,
Comparing power levels of analog and digital transmissions is comparing apples and oranges. There is also the comparison between UHF and VHF propagation characteristics, but this one is probably more important.

I apologize if I've offended. I totally agree with you that testing different antenna orientations/locations requires a small amount of effort and could potentially save lots of dough.

Roger that on tuner overload, keenan. But having too much signal is better than not enough ;-).

varkus,
If you've got multi-path issues, then an omni-directional antenna is the wrong tool. You would need a yagi type plus a good tuner with decent multi-path rejection. Examining your analog reception can provide clues as to what the issues are.

Best,
jeff

apple,

Yes, KTEH-DT is on the air and I do get it.

Bob

I see, I misinterpreted the information. I'll edit my post to avoid creating future confusion.

Bob,

What is the relative strength of the KSTS signal and the KTEH signal? Where are you located?

Yes, I wish I had that problem up here in Santa Rosa...

Yes. I get KTEH just fine OTA in San Jose (Evergreen Valley).

Otto,

Do they have any HD content or is it just a mirror of what is on channel 54?

I am looking for info on OTA reception in the Santa Rosa CA area.
I know I will need a large antenna and raise it up pretty high.
Just wast to hear what kind of reception I can expect.

Thanks
Joedog

This is not an easy question to answer. It depends primarily where in Santa Rosa you are located and whether you have a clear shot to the southern horizon towards SF. If you are positioned higher up in the hills around town and still are clear to the south you should get a reasonable amount of stations. The western side of town would seem to have a better chance at getting signals also. It is really a trial and error thing up here. I have a CM4248 mounted 70' high on top of a redwood tree, yet I get better reception from the CM4228 mounted 15' above a single story roof. Swapping the two antennas does not improve the situation either. It all a matter of moving the antenna around while checking signal strength. I can usually get KRON, KPIX and a bunch of the minor stations which I never watch but even then the signal is so sporadic that I would never depend on it for a straight hour program say.

You will almost certainly need a pre-amp and probably a rotor if you intend to get more than just a few stations. Because there is no line of sight from Sutro to Santa Rosa the signals are bounced off and over hills and the atmospheric conditions play a role as well. I have found I get the best reception when there is an foggy inversion layer in the Bay Area which creates a sort of tunnel for the signals to bounce there way up here.

It's all science, but it borders on black magic and a lot of luck is involved as well. Don't let my words talk you out of trying though, it is very possible that where you are may be a great location, the only way to tell is try.

Jim

I live down of the flats near Gurneville and Marlow.
My line of site to the south is not bad once I am up enough to see over the house across the street.
How does kgo come in, I would like see MNF if possible.
I guess I could try to get waivers to get the National feeds.
That is if I don`t lose my current locals.

South of Hiway 12 would be better but I would guess you're probably in the second best spot you could be other than up on FountainGrove. I have never received KGO OTA where I am at, not once in all my trying, that doesn't mean you can't get it, you never know until you try. I take it you have DirecTV if your taking about waivers, if so, when ABC comes live on DirecTV you wont need a waiver from because KGO-SF is an O&O station, like KPIX-CBS and KNTV-NBC. My whole antenna affair has been to try and get KTVU which only puts it's HD-digital signal OTA. It is highly improbable that KTVU will be carried by Comcast anytime soon, maybe by the end of 2005 and although FOX should be available on DirecTV very soon you would still need a waiver from KTVU as they are not an O&O station, and they generally deny any waiver as GP. If they do, you have to go through the signal testing part and all that can take up to 90days after the first denial. Being in this area it is impossible to use one method(OTA-Sat-Cable) and be able to receive all the 4 major networks unless you get really lucky with the OTA setup which you might. Just look around town on rooftops and you'll see antennas are as rare as smooth flowing traffic in this town.

The front runner looks to be DirecTV as they have already had Fox on for the MLB playoffs and the WS and are negotiating with both ABC and FOX right now. And if DirecTV becomes an option for you it a simple matter to "move" your address to put you in a "white area" where you wont need to get a waiver from KTVU to receive the national Fox feeds. You might even get lucky like I did by just calling customer service and asking for Fox and getting it turned on by mistake. Saw the playoffs and the WS in HD courtesy of DirecTV, still getting the LA and NY SD feeds.

My suggestion would be to get a UHF antenna and try it, maybe you could borrow one or somebody has one mounted that they would like to have taken down. You can figure on spending about $200 for antenna, rotor, cable and accessories.

Currently, Comcast is the best bet for HD programming here, CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS can be had with just a basic cable subscription and a $5.00 a month HD box rental, comes to about $23.

Thanks for all the info. Thats about what I expected.
I am planning on sticking with Directv mainly for Sunday Ticket.
I guess I can wait for KGO to go live. I did not realise they were a O&O station.
The good news from Directv is the new sat goes up next year and then they will start providing HD locals in the larger markets.

Thanks

Yes, by mid-2005. The national Fox and ABC will be live way before then even. OTA will generally have the best picture depending on what rate the local station transmits at, and it's free, but up here it is just not very feasible.

I'm not sure. I don't usually watch it I just noticed that my LG locked on it when it was originally scanning for stations. I'll check it out and let you tonight or tomorrow.

To my knowledge KQED is the only PBS channel in our area actually broadcasting HD. I think KTEH is behind the curve financially after having to replace their transmitter tower following bad weather or something like that.

Oh and also FYI, 9.1 is KQED's only HD channel. 9.2 through 9.5 are digital but not HD.

Is it just me, or others having problems with 44, 2 and 4?

Enterprise last night broke up several times. Looking at the signal strength this morning 44 is practically none-existant. 2 and 4 are also pretty weak. Thease are al from Sutro (right?) so I was wondering if they messing with the transmitter, or if I need to trim the tree again (most of my signal problems are too much tree I think).

According to Antennaweb NBC should be on 11.1, the funny thing is I receive NBC on 48.2 and it's rock solid, not on 11.1. Did they move their frequency or is antennaweb wrong ??? I'm in the South Bay near San Jose, my equipment is an LG 4200a and using a Rat Shack 15-1880 indoor antenna. Anyone in the South bay getting NBC on this channel ????

Laters,
Mikef5

Luckily for you, you discovered a little secret on your own. KNTV also broadcasts on 48.2, a digital channel of the local Univision channel 48. Many that cannot bring in 11.1 watch 48.2, myself included (although I often just watch Directv's NBCW HD out of laziness).

11-1 is broadcast on channel 12. Are you looking in the right place? Also that's the only one broadcast from Loma Prieta, the other direction from everthing else and the only VHF frequency. That usually means its the most troublesome to pick up. I don't bother trying. I can see a very weak signal if I do try.

They're going to be moving north sometime soon.

Make that KNTV.

I haven't noticed any problems down here in San Jose.

Comcast sub here supplementing my HD by joining the OTA ranks. I bled new life this weekend into a Samsung 150 OTA receiver that had been relegated to the closet. Rigged up a Channel Master 4221 (sans pre-amp or rotator) and was able to pick up a bunch of the stations coming off Sutro (including Fox, the one I really wanted for NFC games! ) I was worried about signal strength due to multi-path reflections because I'm at the bottom of a hill and don't have a direct line of sight to Sutro, but looks like it's a non-issue. I'm typically getting 5-6 bars of strength on the 150 (not quite halfway), but didn't notice any drop-outs during the game yesterday or on any of the other channels as I was scanning them. The top of the antenna is mounted about 7 ft above my roof level. When I was originally setting it up, I had it pointed in the wrong direction, and was picking up some of the channels from the south such as KNTV (48-2) and Univision (14).

Really pleased with the results. Since I already had the STB, total cost was only $35 for the antenna, mast, and wall mounting hardware. I would definitely recommend HomeTech in Cupertino - staff was very knowledgeable and helpful.

Question for the OTA crowd? Do you have a ground hooked up? Is it necessary here in the Bay Area? I can't remember the last time I saw lightning here. Would a surge protector between the antenna cable and the TV do the job? The grounding wire would be a bit cumbersome to run, and not very pleasing aesthetically, in our case.

Also, I noticed that the 49ers game didn't seem quite as sharp as previous games I have seen on CBS or ABC/ESPN. I would expect to see some difference between Fox (720p) and CBS (1080i), but thought that the Fox images would closely mirror those on ABC/ESPN. FWIW, The 150 is connected to a Pioneer Elite 730HDi (RP-CRT) via RGB. The 150 is set to output 1080i and the Elite's scan rate is also set at 1080i.