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San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 134

post #3991 of 10434
Patty--

We all were confused by virtual channel numbers the first time that we saw them. Those who're coming late to the DTV party will also get over it.
post #3992 of 10434
Anyone know where I can pick up a Funke PSP.1922? Are they still making these?

- DFGY
post #3993 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

Anyone know where I can pick up a Funke PSP.1922? Are they still making these?

- DFGY

I believe they are made in the Netherlands and not imported to the U.S. but there was a guy here on the forums that had a bunch and was selling them. I haven't tried to contact him but I heard he still had some late last Fall. I saved this link so I could find him:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...81623&page=168

Go to message 5022 and PM Max HD and see if he still has any.

If you do that, would post you here if he still has them? I might be interested too.

Thanks,

Chuck
post #3994 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I believe they are made in the Netherlands and not imported to the U.S. but there was a guy here on the forums that had a bunch and was selling them. I haven't tried to contact him but I heard he still had some late last Fall. I saved this link so I could find him:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...81623&page=168

Go to message 5022 and PM Max HD and see if he still has any.

If you do that, would post you here if he still has them? I might be interested too.

Thanks,

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

MAX HD replied. Here's his post.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15830388

Sounds like they're made to order in batches of 100. They do export, I already knew that. I wonder why Terrestrial Digital hasn't copied it yet? Their 91XG is almost a carbon copy of the Funke DC4591... But, then again, I also wonder why Channel Master doesn't bring back the 4251...

- DFGY
post #3995 of 10434
Hi -

I'm in the process of ditching Comcast and would like to receive the OTA HD channels from my 2nd floor flat in Alameda. I'm a renter, so I do not have permission (or the means) to access the roof to install an outdoor antenna. Does anyone have any recommendations for indoor HD antennas under $100? Ideally, we want to get the local FOX, CBS, ABC (for Lost!) and NBC channels in HD.

Thanks!
post #3996 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by slk230 View Post

Larry,
Any thoughts as to why from Martinez
with my "deep fringe" antenna and 7777 amp I can get 2, 4, 7, 9, 36, 43, and 44 with the antenna pointed at Sutro, but can't get 5 or 20 at all? Five analog and 20 analog do come in but not great. Really strange is 44 analog is unwatchable but digital is perfect.
Lee

I think your question has already been answered, but to answer briefly, KPIX 5 digital is on channel 29, KOFY 20 is on 19. From Martinez, the signal for KSPX analog from Walnut Grove is probably stonger than KPIX on 29 and the analog signal for KUVS in Modesto is probably stronger than KOFY on 19. This problem will go away on June 12th.

Larry
SF
post #3997 of 10434
Check out the new FCC maps:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

Larry
SF
post #3998 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by boston_SF View Post

Hi -

I'm in the process of ditching Comcast and would like to receive the OTA HD channels from my 2nd floor flat in Alameda. I'm a renter, so I do not have permission (or the means) to access the roof to install an outdoor antenna. Does anyone have any recommendations for indoor HD antennas under $100? Ideally, we want to get the local FOX, CBS, ABC (for Lost!) and NBC channels in HD.

Thanks!

I'm at the west end of Alameda in a single story house rental. I picked up a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna and its working very well for me.
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...4370&langId=-1
The only problem I've had was finding the the right position so I could get both Sutro Tower & Mt. San Bruno. Every once in a while we will have problems with KPIX signal dropping out but other than that reception is great.
post #3999 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

I think your question has already been answered, but to answer briefly, KPIX 5 digital is on channel 29, KOFY 20 is on 19. From Martinez, the signal for KSPX analog from Walnut Grove is probably stonger than KPIX on 29 and the analog signal for KUVS in Modesto is probably stronger than KOFY on 19. This problem will go away on June 12th.

Larry
SF

It's not my intent to be overly picky here but to try to help out people who may be in the situation out in the valley where they can receive SF stations but not KPIX and/or KOFY.

KSPX analog on 29 transmits from a site on Hwy 49 a bit southwest of Placerville. I've driven by it. It appears to sit on a bluff overlooking the Sacramento Valley east of Sacramento itself. KSPX digital on 48 transmits from Walnut Grove. The two sites are some 40 miles apart. It's like the situation with channel 65 in SF.

KUVS analog and digital are on the same tower outside of Angels Camp, a good hour drive from Modesto. I wanted to see the KUVS tower so I located it on Google Earth and then tried to drive over there. Unfortunately I found it was located on a private ranch so I couldn't get close to the towers. I took a couple pictures at a distance at the entrance to the ranch which are attached below. I was located east of the towers.

Chuck
LL
LL
post #4000 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Check out the new FCC maps:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
Larry
SF

very interesting, at least the tabular info on signal strength and direction...the map itself is kind of funny, because it doesn't show ANYTHING related to TV reception...it could at least show the locations from which the stations are broadcasting...

oh wait! it DOES, after you click on a particular station in the table!!!

And, interestingly, I can see why the table shows I would have trouble getting KTEH...not surprisingly, lots of hills in the way for them, quite different from the situation for my little secondary antenna (no longer connected), which had no trouble pulling in 11-1, when it was still broadcasting from down San Jose way!
post #4001 of 10434
Today and last evening, many channels just aren't there for me. Are they going ahead with antenna transition anyway? It has been rainy/windy, but last year during storms my signal loss was not anywhere near this complete. I get a few channels on the tower nice strong signal, but most others are just gone today.
post #4002 of 10434
Turbo--

Most likely the wind has moved your antenna off target.
post #4003 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 View Post

Today and last evening, many channels just aren't there for me. Are they going ahead with antenna transition anyway? It has been rainy/windy, but last year during storms my signal loss was not anywhere near this complete. I get a few channels on the tower nice strong signal, but most others are just gone today.

There have been no changes to the digital transmitters from Mt San Bruno or Sutro. Only KFTY in Santa Rosa is changing the channel of their digital operation, from 54 to 32. The analog signals for 6 stations are affected by tonight's action. They are 20, 35, 36, 38, 46 and 50. KOFY 20 and KICU 36 are going to off Nightlight Service for two weeks. There are no changes for anyone else.

As TPeterson said, your antenna has probably shift off axis.

Larry
SF

Edited to change typo... I had 52 not 32 for KFTY's new digital channel.
post #4004 of 10434
I got up this morning expecting KFTY to be on 32 and it's still on 54. Maybe I'll drop them an e-mail asking when they're going to switch.

KICU is running a night light service on analog 36, something else I didn't expect.

Chuck
post #4005 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I got up this morning expecting KFTY to be on 32 and it's still on 54. Maybe I'll drop them an e-mail asking when they're going to switch.

Someone posted a comment in the Table of Allotments thread a couple of days ago noting that stations transitioning yesterday had to do separate filings if they also wanted to move to their permanent digital frequencies. For whatever reasons (technical issues involving still-operating analog or digital signals on those frequencies, inability to accompany the frequency switch with the necessary antenna change until everyone else moves, sheer inertia, etc.) I suspect that many stations just didn't bother seeking such permission.

KICU didn't move last night, either.


Patty
post #4006 of 10434
I got a reply from the engineer at KFTY. They plan to be on 32 by midnight. They were delayed due to 3' of snow on the mountain.

Chuck
post #4007 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

Hi Chuck,

MAX HD replied. Here's his post.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15830388

Sounds like they're made to order in batches of 100. They do export, I already knew that. I wonder why Terrestrial Digital hasn't copied it yet? Their 91XG is almost a carbon copy of the Funke DC4591... But, then again, I also wonder why Channel Master doesn't bring back the 4251...

- DFGY

Thanks. I'm not surprised to hear about all the hidden costs of importing. Same reason why I won't ship overseas on Ebay, too much hassle and extra costs.

Chuck
post #4008 of 10434
Thanks for the note about KFTY, Chuck. Guess they have to plow the road first so that they can get to their transmitter site atop Mt. St. Helena. Let us know when they move and how their signal on channel 32 compares to what it's been on 54. I won't be seeing it here until June since KMTP is still on the air just 3/4 of a mile from here.

For Patty's info, KFTY has been granted Special Temporary Authority (STA) to move to their post-transition channel. They're the only station in this area that has requested an STA so far. All stations must keep their digital operation on their PRE-transition channel unless they get FCC permission to move with an STA.

Larry
SF
post #4009 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Turbo--

Most likely the wind has moved your antenna off target.

Hmmm, it didn't look like it shifted, but tonight I rotated it a bit one way and the other while watching the signal, and it is still indeed set for maximum signal. Problem is, almost every channel's signal is very low, except 11, which is still maxed at 100% on the TV's signal meter. I use to get 2,4,5,7,9,11,20,36 & 44. Now I only get 5, 11 & 20. 5 & 20 have gone down by 7-15%, but are still strong. As an example of how bad the other signals dropped, channel 4 use to be a solid signal at 84% on the TV's signal meter, but now it is 15%... of course no picture. KTVU went from 93% down to 44%, and only my most sensitive tuner can receive it now. I am not sure how it could be an antenna problem since some digital channels come in as strong or almost as strong as before, while most others have just completely fallen on their faces. And all my analog signals are still very good. Analog KRON looks positively gorgeous (no ghosting or snow) yet went from 84% to 15% on digital. How could KRON go from 84% down to 15% while KNTV stayed at 100% if it was my antenna? Nobody else has noticed a change in signal? I live in Sunnyvale.
post #4010 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 View Post

I use to get 2,4,5,7,9,11,20,36 & 44. Now I only get 5, 11 & 20. 5 & 20 have gone down by 7-15%, but are still strong. As an example of how bad the other signals dropped, channel 4 use to be a solid signal at 84% on the TV's signal meter, but now it is 15%... of course no picture. KTVU went from 93% down to 44%, ... Nobody else has noticed a change in signal? I live in Sunnyvale.

I live in Sunnyvale as well and have noticed no change in my signal strength for any of the channels you have listed. They are all coming in nice and strong.
post #4011 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 View Post

Problem is, almost every channel's signal is very low, except 11, which is still maxed at 100% on the TV's signal meter. I use to get 2,4,5,7,9,11,20,36 & 44. Now I only get 5, 11 & 20. 5 & 20 have gone down by 7-15%, but are still strong. As an example of how bad the other signals dropped, channel 4 use to be a solid signal at 84% on the TV's signal meter, but now it is 15%... of course no picture. KTVU went from 93% down to 44%, and only my most sensitive tuner can receive it now. I am not sure how it could be an antenna problem since some digital channels come in as strong or almost as strong as before, while most others have just completely fallen on their faces. And all my analog signals are still very good. Analog KRON looks positively gorgeous (no ghosting or snow) yet went from 84% to 15% on digital. How could KRON go from 84% down to 15% while KNTV stayed at 100% if it was my antenna? Nobody else has noticed a change in signal? I live in Sunnyvale.

Everything you described says VHF is fine and UHF is bad. How is analog 44 or 26? Do you have a VHF/UHF combo antenna? Maybe there is a bad connection on the UHF part. I live 110 miles from Mt. Sutro and was still receiving KGO-DT on 24 last night so I know at least that transmitter is fine.

Chuck
post #4012 of 10434
KFTY-DT is still on 54 this morning so I guess they haven't made it up the mountain yet. I can see just a hint of KMTP on 32 when pointed at Santa Rosa so that may turn out to be a temporary problem.

Chuck
post #4013 of 10434
FWIW: I'm in Santa Clara (95054 zip code). I got my HDTV back in November and did a bunch of scanning. I could get everything fine from Sutro and San Bruno mountain. But for whatever reason, I couldn't get KTVU.

I also have Comcast cable, so I can get it via that, so no huge deal, but it bugged me a bit that I couldn't get KTVU and watch my favorite Fox shows if the cable decided to flake out (mine has several times!).

So last night I decided to do another scan to see if anything has changed, and lo-and-behold I can now get KTVU strong/clear. OTA HD looks good!

I'm in a 2nd floor apartment with a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. Note that I pretty much ignore the analog channels because most a) don't look as good as the digital, and b) don't have as good reception (from "good" to "unwatchable" depending on channel).

Now, from reading this thread, it seems to me that nothing has really changed? So wonder what has caused me to suddenly be able to get KTVU pretty much 5x5? Maybe other things have changed since November? Or changes on other stations/frequencies have had an effect?
post #4014 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Everything you described says VHF is fine and UHF is bad. How is analog 44 or 26? Do you have a VHF/UHF combo antenna? Maybe there is a bad connection on the UHF part. I live 110 miles from Mt. Sutro and was still receiving KGO-DT on 24 last night so I know at least that transmitter is fine.

Chuck

Analog 44 is pretty rotten comnpared to all the other analog channels. (Don't surf 26, and not at home now, so can't check analog 26) I forget if 44 comes from Sutro also. I have a UHF/VHF combo, about 10 or 12 feet length, but only one connection for both UHF and VHF. I'll check the splitters first, then drag the antenna down (again) to check the connection there. After that, not sure what to do. I think I'll just give up and do DVD's and radio!

CAUTION: pitiful, whiney venting ahead! I'm frustrated because just less than a year ago I went through the whole antenna system from antenna to each TV, raised the mast 10 feet and everything, and finally achieved a strong, useable signal on every set, and now this, out of nowhere. Boo-hoo. If I don't see anything clearly wrong with the antenna or splitters and whatnot, and can't achieve signal, I think a whole new huge block of free-time just opened up in my life! Only sorry I spent money on two converter boxes that now bring nearly nothing in. I'll post my findings.
post #4015 of 10434
Yes, 44 is on Sutro so now it really sounds like there is something wrong on the UHF side. It's possible that the UHF portion of the antenna is not making contact at where the VHF and UHF parts are combined. It's very unlikely that any splitter would be okay on VHF but bad on UHF.

I know how frustrating antenna repair can be. The wind from the January 2008 storm tilted both my UHF antennas straight up. They're 12 feet above the top of a 50' guyed tower. It took me two days and help from a friend to get to them to tilt them back down. Then I had to drill holes through the clamps and cross boom to put in a screw to pin the antennas so they couldn't tilt up again. I ended up with a spec of metal in my eye from drilling the holes over my head and had to go to the emergency room to get it washed out. Ugghhh!

Chuck
post #4016 of 10434
Just checked again and they are off the air. Nothing on 54 or 32. They were on 54 this morning. Maybe 32 tomorrow.

Just a confirmation for Larry's station list...... KBSV has just switched over to their new 421 watt transmitter on Mt. Oso (69 miles distant) which I'm pretty sure is LOS from here. They have a great signal, 92 on the signal quality meter, which goes to show that LOS is more important than power.

Chuck
post #4017 of 10434
Now to see if KBSV sticks around once KTNC-DT signs on DT-14.

- Trip
post #4018 of 10434
Can anyone tell me if this is a good antenna? http://www.antennasdirect.com/C4-Cle...V-antenna.html
post #4019 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Now to see if KBSV sticks around once KTNC-DT signs on DT-14.

- Trip

Seems like KBSV's 421 watts is doing okay. They're up at 1888 feet, so that helps. Thanks for the report, Chuck.

You think KTNC on 14 is going to cause problems for them, Trip? We won't find out until June, since KTNC can't come up on 14 until KDTV analog goes off the air. Right now, KTNC-DT is off the air completely. They took their channel 63 transmitter off the air in January to move it out and make room for their new channel 14 transmitter, which they were going to have ready to go on Feb. 17, then Congress extended the transition date and they got screwed!

Larry
SF
post #4020 of 10434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xn0r View Post

FWIW: I'm in Santa Clara (95054 zip code). I got my HDTV back in November and did a bunch of scanning. I could get everything fine from Sutro and San Bruno mountain. But for whatever reason, I couldn't get KTVU.

I also have Comcast cable, so I can get it via that, so no huge deal, but it bugged me a bit that I couldn't get KTVU and watch my favorite Fox shows if the cable decided to flake out (mine has several times!).

So last night I decided to do another scan to see if anything has changed, and lo-and-behold I can now get KTVU strong/clear. OTA HD looks good!

I'm in a 2nd floor apartment with a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. Note that I pretty much ignore the analog channels because most a) don't look as good as the digital, and b) don't have as good reception (from "good" to "unwatchable" depending on channel).

Now, from reading this thread, it seems to me that nothing has really changed? So wonder what has caused me to suddenly be able to get KTVU pretty much 5x5? Maybe other things have changed since November? Or changes on other stations/frequencies have had an effect?

Atmospheric conditions, inversion layers, fog, etc. can make a big difference in signal strength. Xn0r, apparently you're seeing improved conditions between you and Sutro Tower so KTVU has come above the cliff edge for you. With analog signals, people didn't notice the changes that much. The picture might get a little more or less snowy, but not enough to make a difference. With digital, your receiver either gets enough signal to detect the 1's and 0's to make a picture or it doesn't... it's perfect or it's gone. I think lots of people are going to be surprised to see how much their signals vary over the course of a few days, a few months, or even longer when they switch to digital.

One thing I can't explain is that when the signals from Walnut Grove (Sacramento-Stockton) are weak, the signals from Mt. Allison and Monument Peak above Fremont are usually good here in San Francisco. When the Walnut Grove signals improve, the ones from the South Bay tend to get weaker. KTEH can get weak enough to drop below the cliff edge when I'm getting several stations from Sacramento. Sometimes KSTS will also drop out. Other times I get signals of 80+ out of them. What's with that?

I've noticed that for the past couple of months the stations from Walnut Grove have overall been a lot weaker than they were during the summer and fall. I used to be able to get several of the stations reliably - 6, 10, 13, 31, 40 and 58 were all there most of the time, but lately only KMAX 31 has been coming in consistently. This afternoon for a while I was getting KVIE 6 and KQCA 46 along with KMAX, but they were gone again later tonight, and even KMAX was breaking up a little.

You guys down in the South Bay, Turbo and Xn0r, might also be close to that infamous cliff edge and you might be seeing the effects of the changing conditions right now.

Larry
SF
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