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San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 136

post #4051 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1234 View Post

Are there others in this area who are able to view KTVU programming on their box without issues ?

I live in Sunnyvale too. I have not noticed any problems with KTVU digital recently. It's still coming in fine for me.
post #4052 of 10451
FWIW: I'm in Santa Clara (95054), and I'm also getting KTVU digital 2.1 and 2.2 just fine via my Terk HDTVa.
post #4053 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1234 View Post

Are there others in this area who are able to view KTVU programming on their box without issues ?

The 6pm news looked fine to me. I live near the Oakridge Mall at Hwy 87 & 85.

Scott
post #4054 of 10451
Is there any place in the Bay Area that stocks the Channel Master CM-7777?
Also the Winegard 1713?

Ordering this stuff over the web is going to be a real pain if I have to return it all.
post #4055 of 10451
Folks, anyone having issue with KTSF (26.1)?

This may not be the right thread but I have to ask anyway. Today I found that my HTPC running VMC cannot view 26.1. But it can watch 26.2!!! Reboot and no effect. Doing a signal check shows full 6 out of 6 on 26.1/26.2. I have 2 tuner cards and both are the same. But my TV pulls in 26.1 just fine using the same cable. I have been using this setup to record 26.1 for over 6 months and this is the first time I am running into this issue.
post #4056 of 10451
The Today show was on 11.1 and the PC-driven weather on subchannel 11.2 was on but 11.3 was dark. I wanted to watch the world long track speedskating meet on Universal Sports (11.3) so I called KNTV and told the person to tell the engineer and then it magically came on a minute later. I guess (but hope not) that I was the only person in the 7 million (?) Bay Area television market that was interested in this. Although outside of the Netherlands this wouldn't be a big surprise if I was the only one that noticed.

I'm hoping KNTV keeps this up with the free Universal Sports. But if not I suppose I can default to watching things on the Internet if the course of events in the future evolves towards IPtv and "the long tail" of niche programming.
post #4057 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post

Is there any place in the Bay Area that stocks the Channel Master CM-7777?
Also the Winegard 1713?

Ordering this stuff over the web is going to be a real pain if I have to return it all.

I did a search on Winegard's page for dealers. I found none in the Bay Area. The closest were in Sacramento and Fresno.

You're previous comments about not receiving high VHF very good don't bode well for digital there. There's a pretty easy way to tell if you can receive KNTV-DT. Look at 11 analog. If it's no worse than just a tiny amount of snow and no ghosts then you'll likely to be able to receive it on 12. That's when I can receive KNTV-DT here.

I think the same thing will go for KGO on 7 when they end up digital on 7.

Can you receive Salinas? Some people in the Santa Cruz mountain have better luck with those.

Chuck
post #4058 of 10451
Thanks for the replies on my KTVU query.
I guess I need to check my Antenna.

Chuck, regarding your question, signal strength is between 50-60. (Once it goes to around 50, the PAL just drops it totally). For KPIX, KNTV, etc signal strength is 85+.
post #4059 of 10451
After changing the waterlogged matching transformer, KRON non longer comes in at all in my garage TV. All others are OK. I even switched the garage TV with an identical one from the kitchen, and same thing. I now know it must be PFM interference somebody else mentioned. I love it. This is going to help me explain a lot of previously unexplainable things, and save me a lot of wasted time trying to troubleshoot!
post #4060 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 View Post

After changing the waterlogged matching transformer, KRON non longer comes in at all in my garage TV. All others are OK. I even switched the garage TV with an identical one from the kitchen, and same thing. I now know it must be PFM interference somebody else mentioned. I love it. This is going to help me explain a lot of previously unexplainable things, and save me a lot of wasted time trying to troubleshoot!

LOL. A little joke . When it comes to all that analog and RF stuff, it's PFM to me. :P

I've seen oddball behavior like that with bad splitters. Certain channels working, others not, etc. May want to check that. I've also had similar stuff happen with a simple cable.

For instance, the digital cable box in my bedroom decided one day that didn't want to receive Sci-Fi channel, and a few other odd channels. I received all others just fine, 5x5. It had been working fine a day or two before. But then one day it decided not to work. It turned out to be the last thing I suspected ... the cable from the wall to the cable box had magically gone "bad" without being touched. Perhaps oxide build up? Who knows. Replacing the cable fixed everything.
post #4061 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelation View Post

Folks, anyone having issue with KTSF (26.1)?

This may not be the right thread but I have to ask anyway. Today I found that my HTPC running VMC cannot view 26.1. But it can watch 26.2!!! Reboot and no effect. Doing a signal check shows full 6 out of 6 on 26.1/26.2. I have 2 tuner cards and both are the same. But my TV pulls in 26.1 just fine using the same cable. I have been using this setup to record 26.1 for over 6 months and this is the first time I am running into this issue.

Sounds like something's squirly in your tuner card. If you can receive a channel you should get all of the sub-channels. I suggest you post your question in the HTPC thread where someone with that brand of receiver can help you.

Larry
SF
post #4062 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGSkater View Post

I guess (but hope not) that I was the only person in the 7 million (?) Bay Area television market that was interested in this.

Most people don't have any idea how to contact a station when they see problems. They just wait for someone at the station to notice the problem and fix it.

Having worked in Master Control at a local station, I certainly would appreciate a call if a viewer noticed something wrong. With several channels to monitor, you can't keep your eyes on every one all the time. Automation is now running the majority of the stations, with one person responsible for several channels or sub-channels.

I remember the "good ol' days" when there was a director, technical director and audio engineer on duty all the time with just one channel to control. Those days are gone forever.

Larry
SF
post #4063 of 10451
@Larry: When they monitor the channels, do they monitor the feed coming from the station and going to the transmitter, or do they actually put an antenna out there and feed things back to the station for more of an "end to end" test?
post #4064 of 10451
Yesterday, using the dtvpal dvr as a receiver around 9 pm, I also noticed some macroblocking incident on KTVU
post #4065 of 10451
For those of you in the Evergreen area of SJ, are any of you using attic antenna. Any experiences, recommendations, suggestions.

I am in 95135 zip code (Falls creek & Verona cross roads). I have a 2 story home with stucco walls and asphalt tile roof. My antenna would be pointing through the sliding roof towards Sutro. No big bldgs or trees around me.
Couple of days ago I tested with a paper clip in STB and was able to receive about 15 channels in the second floor & 10 channels in first floor; strangely they are different channels, i.e. some I got in first floor are missing in second floor and vice-versa. Hence, i am optimistic about an attic placement. None in my neighborhood have any rooftop antennas.

If any successful indoor antenna reception, even better. What are you using?

VK
post #4066 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Sounds like something's squirly in your tuner card. If you can receive a channel you should get all of the sub-channels. I suggest you post your question in the HTPC thread where someone with that brand of receiver can help you.

Larry
SF

I have 2 different brands of tuner and they have the same problem. I even swapped a computer (also running Vista) and it is still the same. This maybe a Vista bug but it is likely related to the broadcast. It was working for 6 months until 3 days ago and suddenly dropped out.

Anyone living in the bay area using Vista Media Center? Can you tune to KTSF (1271 or 1261)? For me 1262 works fine but 1261 is no go.
post #4067 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xn0r View Post

@Larry: When they monitor the channels, do they monitor the feed coming from the station and going to the transmitter, or do they actually put an antenna out there and feed things back to the station for more of an "end to end" test?

I can only speak for KGO as of five years ago. I retired in December 2003. They had an OTA feed from an antenna on the roof and separate monitors for the analog channel and all of their digital sub-channels, plus Comcast, Dish and DirecTV in Master Control. We used the analog OTA feed for monitoring and switching.

When the analog is shut down they will no longer be able to switch using the OTA signal due to the delay, so they'll have to use the switcher output.

Larry
SF
post #4068 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkolli View Post

For those of you in the Evergreen area of SJ, are any of you using attic antenna. Any experiences, recommendations, suggestions.

I am in 95135 zip code (Falls creek & Verona cross roads).
VK

I have a friend who lives just west of Groesbeck Hill Park near Ruby and he's using a simple VHF-UHF antenna he got at Radio Shack a few years ago in his attic. He's getting excellent signals on all of the Sutro Tower, San Bruno and East Bay hills transmitters with the antenna locked down pointing at San Francisco.

You have pretty much a clear shot over the Bay from your area, so you don't need anything extensive.

Larry
SF
post #4069 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

I have a friend who lives just west of Groesbeck Hill Park near Ruby and he's using a simple VHF-UHF antenna he got at Radio Shack a few years ago in his attic. He's getting excellent signals on all of the Sutro Tower, San Bruno and East Bay hills transmitters with the antenna locked down pointing at San Francisco.

Thanks Larry.
Do you know what model is your friend using or do you have a recommendation for me? At least, would I have more success with Yagi or bow tie models?
Are folks in south bay able to get ch 7 & 11 with bow tie antennas, as I heard they do not work very well for hi-vhs. One limitation for me is that I have a small attic entry - 24"x18".

VK
post #4070 of 10451
I'm not sure of the exact model of my friend's antenna, but it's like the one shown in the following link:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103085
It's not too large and can be opened up and assembled after you get it up into the attic.

The Channel Master 4228HD is a newer version of the old 4228 bowtie antenna and is supposed to work better on the high VHF channels 7-13. Several people down there in the South Bay have reported having no trouble receiving KNTV with the 4228, and a few stayed up late for the KGO test of their digital transmitter on channel 7 a couple of months ago and said they got a good signal.

Since you're going for a new antenna, you might want to think about one that is made to cover channels 7 to 51, the new antenna that covers High VHF and UHF. I saw one on the Radio Shack site from Winegard that would be excellent for your attic:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3364956

Larry
SF
post #4071 of 10451
I am amazed/confused about how my HDTV, DTV converter box (for an older TV) and TIVO HD know when the digital channels change frequency. Amazingly, my HDTV (Samsung) and DTV converter box (RCA) have had no problems following any digital channel switching. I haven't had to redo a channel scan. KOFY (20) and KICU (36) still come in fine.

However, my TIVO has problems. On 2/17, two 20.1 and 20.4 channels showed up in programming. The original channels had the programming information, but no signal and the new channels had signal, but no programming data. I figured it was because channel 20 changed digital frequencies and the programming data hadn't had a chance to catch up. (But I think KOFY never changed digital channels, so I am confused.)

On Friday afternoon, I got new programming data from TIVO and did a channel rescan. That fixed the KOFY problem. But later Friday night, as Scrubs was recording on KICU, I noticed I wasn't getting any signal. I now have two sets of 36.1 and 36.2. One set on digital channel 36 (with programming data and no signal), and one set on digital channel 52 (with no programming data and signal).

Did KICU (36) wait until Thursday night/Friday to switch from 36 to 52?
How did my HDTV and RCA DTV converter box follow without a rescan?
Did KOFY (20) ever switch digital frequencies on 2/17?

I know this isn't a TiVo forum, but the forum should be able to answer the above three questions

Thanks
Mike
Sunnyvale
(And I get great reception on digital KTVU)
post #4072 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by count_on_mike View Post

On Friday afternoon, I got new programming data from TIVO and did a channel rescan. That fixed the KOFY problem. But later Friday night, as Scrubs was recording on KICU, I noticed I wasn't getting any signal. I now have two sets of 36.1 and 36.2. One set on digital channel 36 (with programming data and no signal), and one set on digital channel 52 (with no programming data and signal).

I just checked and KICU is still running their nightlight service on analog 36 and still on digital on 52. They are not digital on 36.

Chuck
post #4073 of 10451
The analog shutdown has the potential of helping you immediately, but there's no guarantee. KGO going to real channel 7 should help a lot. It might become a lifeline channel for a time, but you've reported poor reception of it. However, is the poor reception due to double images rather than washed out colors? If the colors are vivid, I've experienced fine digital reception despite having unreadable graphics and terrible double images on UHF channels here. Hopefully a sixth-gen digital tuner can do the same for you. You might also want to explore different antenna locations close to the ground, a small clearing might be all that you need. Stick with analog for now. And of course, read here so that you will be up to date on the progress of the digital upgrades being made to Sutro.
post #4074 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by count_on_mike View Post

I am amazed/confused about how my HDTV, DTV converter box (for an older TV) and TIVO HD know when the digital channels change frequency. Amazingly, my HDTV (Samsung) and DTV converter box (RCA) have had no problems following any digital channel switching. I haven't had to redo a channel scan. KOFY (20) and KICU (36) still come in fine.

However, my TIVO has problems.

Did KICU (36) wait until Thursday night/Friday to switch from 36 to 52?
How did my HDTV and RCA DTV converter box follow without a rescan?
Did KOFY (20) ever switch digital frequencies on 2/17?

I know this isn't a TiVo forum, but the forum should be able to answer the above three questions

Thanks
Mike
Sunnyvale
(And I get great reception on digital KTVU)

KICU digital has never been on channel 36. Their analog signal is still there. While both KOFY and KICU have ended programming on their analog channels both are still on the air showing what they call "Nightlite Service" there. Neither have done anything to their digital channels. KOFY is still on channel 19 with two sub-channels aliased to 20-1 and 20-4, and KICU is still on 52 with two sub-channels aliased to 36-1 and 36-2. KOFY will not be changing, but KICU will be moving their digital operation to channel 36. That change will probably occur on June 12th when the other channels move to their new channels, but they could get Special Temporary Authority from the FCC to do it earlier once their analog signal goes off the air.

Some tuners seem to be able to pick up PSIP information automatically and save it, while others require a scan to get the information. When stations add or delete sub-channels, I have receivers that make the changes automatically, while others retain the old information and don't update until I re-scan.

For example, when KQED dropped their -4 and -5 sub-channels, some of my receivers dropped them from the list, some retained them and I had to rescan to get rid of them. When KGO did it's digital test on channel 7, some receivers picked up the new channel automatically, while others needed a rescan to get it. I had to rescan again to get these later ones to recognize KGO again back on channel 24. One of my receivers kept the old 7-1, 7-2 and 7-3 for channel 24 and added a second 7-1, 7-2 and 7-3 for channel 7. When KCNS added their new -2 sub-channel, some of my receivers added it automatically, others needed a re-scan. Receivers don't all work the same way.

I think Tivo receivers get their information from Tivo, not from over the air like others, so they could get anything depending on what the folks at Tivo send out.

Larry
SF
post #4075 of 10451
Hi all,

Since about last week, I suddenly was unable to received KTSF digital channel 26.1 on my computer with a fusionhdtv tuner card (it's all blank, like no-signal) , I can see it's multiplex channel 26.2 fine (MBC America) and I don't see any problems on any other digital channels that I watch. I can watch KTSF on it's normal analog channel but the reception is pretty bad. Has anybody seen this problem?
post #4076 of 10451
See my post above! Finally I found someone in a similar situation. I cannot watch KTSF 26.1 using my Windows Media Center. But I can watch 26.2 perfectly fine. Which makes no sense.
It all started 2/25/09.

Are you using Vista Media Center by any chance?
post #4077 of 10451
I'm getting a 100% signal on 26.1 currently via my MyHD 120 card. I'm in the South Bay.
post #4078 of 10451
waver and pixel--

The problem is that KTSF has some errors in its PSIP data setup.

I captured a couple of minutes of the transport stream (using a FusionHDTV unit, btw) and analyzed it using TSReader Lite. The attached file shows TSRL's analysis, where you can see that the video and audio PIDs for KTSF-D1 are assigned to both Program 3 (the correct assignment) and Program 4 (a bogus assignment to the D2 substream). This probably is what's confusing the Fusion (and likely other) tuners.

I suggest that you contact the station engineer and tell him/her about this.

 

KTSF-fullTS.zip 74.04296875k . file
post #4079 of 10451
pixelation,
I'm running xp home with fusion's own hdtv tuner, maybe I'll try update the sw tonight to see if it can bypass the problem.

TPeterson,
Thanks for the info, I'll try to find a contact number to send them this info, but I'm not sure if this is too technical and whether it'll get dropped somewhere before it got to the right person that knows how to fix it.
post #4080 of 10451
Don't bother updating the Fusion sw, the latest version doesn't handle that PSIP error either.

Edit: OK, it's technically a PMT error not a PSIP error, as Ron points out below. I was incorrectly using the term "PSIP" to include all of the non A/V data in the transport stream. The point is that the transport stream is demonstrably malformed and the station will fix it when they're notified about the problem. If you pass along Ron's comment below that should help them to zero in on it.
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