San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 162

Basically, you'll have to try it and see what you get. There are plenty of TV antennas in the JC area. I always look at rooftops when I'm driving around and take note of the various antennas - it's kind of a hobby of mine.

There is, normally, Sutro signal there; but wait until after the Sutro tower work is finished before running your test. Should be done by October 18th, possibly by the end of September, is the word we've got.

You might try a CM4228HD with a CM7777 pre-amp. It's been improved for VHF and it might get you KGO (7). Buy it from someone that will let you return it if it doesn't pan out for you.

The whole setup will probably cost you more like $400.00 or so, though; by the time you're done.

The trees are probably going to give you problems, especially when the wind kicks up.

well, I have yet to catalog (again) all the channels I'm getting here at the highest point in Moss Beach, but I just found out I'm getting 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 from Sacramento, and in perfect picture. I get 6 also, but shabbily. That's amazing to me. When I went for the OTA I wasn't expecting anything like that.
Thanks again to all of you who helped me out.

@grub: Does the highest point in Moss Beach have a clear LOS to Sutro tower or San Bruno mountain?

From the google terrain maps it looks like the mountains are in the way.

It looks that way from my roof, too. I cannot explain it, but I'm glad it's working...

I drove up Fountaingrove Parkway in Santa Rosa last evening and saw 2 homes with antennas at the top of the parkway. The first install, on the north end of Rocky Point Way, looks like a CM4228 and VHF-HI antenna with a rotor. The second, on the south end of Rocky Point Way, is a giant combo VHF-HI/UHF antenna with a rotor. A friend of mine lives in Fountaingrove and they have very restricitve CC&R's.

I expect to see more antennas in the future so Grandude - give it a go!

I've been seeing reports that the CM4228HD (the new version) doesn't work as well as the older model for VHF. Several people on other threads and on the SF OTA Yahoo Group have tried it, and have had poor reception on VHF with it.

Looking at your TVFool readings, based on what I can get vs my TVFool readings, with a good UHF/VHF antenna with some gain you should do fairly well. All of the stations in the green and yellow areas will be no problem, the ones in the pink should fairly easy, too. If you look in the "power dBm" column, anything stronger than -90 dBm should be received okay. Anything weaker than that will be "iffy". Of course, your results may vary.

The higher you get the antenna, the better off you'll be. Good luck!

Larry
SF

Wow! That is surprising! Congratulations! How about KXTV on channel 10? They're running a little more power than KVIE is on 9.

What's this "I get 6 also, but shabbily"? Typo maybe?

I'm getting fairly solid reception of both KVIE and KXTV, but via reflection. If I point my VHF antenna west south west-257 degrees toward Twin Peaks, I get them better than if I point the antenna at Walnut Grove antenna site. Weird, but true! (No, my VHF antenna is NOT mounted backward, as someone suggested to me by email.)

Larry
SF

Now that is too funny. Obviously they don't know you....

I live in San Jose area and for some strange reasons my channel 2.1, 4.1 and 7.1 come in and out... Channel 5.1, 9.1, 11.1 and 26.1 are fine.

For example, my daughter used the DVR and able to recorded "you know you can dance" from 2.1 Wednesday night but not sure why it is not coming in now. I did just about everything such as take out the cable, screw it back... still no luck.

Any thought will be highly appreciated!

Thanks for your input. My point is that I don't want to 'mess up' the look of our pristine neighborhood. My choice. My wife is on the 'architecture committee' and would have to go along with whatever I want,, but what I want is the nice look of no antennas. Almost every house has a dish and some placed in bad locations that didn't have to be. I have three dish's but all three are located so as not to be seen from the street.

After the move to the top of Sutro I may change my mind, but I suspect that I may be able to get enough OTA from my attic antenna. I can wait.

I did play around with a CM4228 on the back of the house some time ago in an attempt to get it just high enough but out of sight from the street but gave up at that time. After the move to the top, I will be trying this again.
Unfortunately I think the CM4228 is the ugliest antenna on the market. Along with that, it is also very heavy and has a lot of wind resistance.

Sorry for rambling...............

The channels you mentioned all went through physical channel change. So maybe your antenna is not sensitive enough for the new channels. I have a similar experience which I lost 2.1, 4.1 post 6/12. I lost 7.1 on my UHF antenna.

Thanks for the ideas. Is that means a time for a new antenna? What did you get?

Below is what I've today.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products...html#WN-PR8800

Hi Larry,
What I meant by 6 shabbily is that a fuzzy show is there. Yesterday I had 6, 6-1, 6-2,6-3, 10-1, 10-2, and hadn't altered the azimuth of my antennas. Bad news is today they are all "Weak or No Signal"
I'll check again as soon as it's overcast, since that seems to be the only difference I can think of...

Upside down?

What you have should work. Maybe you just need to aim the antenna better. Go to antennaweb, put in your address, and get the direction the antenna needs to be aimed at for the stations you aren't receiving. Then use a compass to point the antenna in that direction. The difference between Sutro and San Bruno is only a few degrees so aim for something between the two.

You might also benefit from a pre-amp mounted on the mast.

Thanks for your feedback.

If I may, before I borrow a ladder to do that, I just want to stress that (1) I am just talking about 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1. All others such as 2.2, 4.2 all 7, all 9, 11.1, 26.1 are prefect and (2) I sure it works 100% before and not sure when it stops working. With (1) and (2) in mind, so you think with just a few degrees change or pre-mount will help. What change in last 30 days?

Appreciate your info in advance!

If you're getting 2.2 and 4.2 perfectly, but not receiving 2.1 and 4.1 then it's probably not an aiming issue. It sounds more like a tuner issue. Did you try the re-scanning procedure? Unhook your antenna, re-scan; hook up the antenna; re-scan, etc.

Yes, it is SO strange.

Yes, I do have 2.2 and 4.2 and looking at it now. The only channels I am missing in last few days is 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1. Other then that, they all come in, all 7, all 9, 11.1, 26, 3X, have no problem.

Yes, I did have 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 not sure when but at least last 8 years until just recently.

Yes, I took the coaxial out and put it back and rescan using my SAT top box 3 times already and still no luck

Any advice(s) at this point are highly appreciated!

What kind of receiver are you using? Is it a satellite receiver?

- Trip

DirecTV DVR HR20. Thx!

Hmmmm..... could be, but my picture isn't upside down so I think it's okay. LOL
Larry
SF

hlkc: It's probably a guide problem with the data DirecTV has sent your receiver. I've seen this happen a lot. The way to confirm is to hook up another digital receiver and see if you can receive 2-1 and whatnot with it.

- Trip

Try this if you haven't done this sequence yet. Take the antenna coax of off of the HR20. Scan for local channels. You will get 0 channels. Now, put the coax back on the HR20 and scan again for channels. Did you get 2.1 this time?

(I deleted and reposted this so that it comes after Bobby's suggestion )
(if his suggestion works mine obviously isn't needed. But I'll leave the info in case anyone else can benefit from it)

About KRON's 4.1 and 4.2. Myself I remove 4.1 from the channel lineup because it is just a standard definition channel of the exact same high definition content on 4.2.

While 4.1 doesn't matter, 2.1 does though.

I've no experience with DirecTV. But I'd imagine its own listings are where the problem might be being introduced. I have a Panasonic DVR with built-in TVGOS listings and going into its setup and choosing "yes existing settings are correct, but my channel lineup is incorrect" lets me solve some channel problems.

for anyone curious:
TVGOS = TV Guide On Screen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVGOS

warning: The rest of this message is more for the more technically minded folks.


update1(
And if that doesn't do it sometimes going into the TVGOS channel editor is necessary. You bring up the TV Guide listings and then press left arrow, and then press the [Submenu] button and choose "Edit Channels".

Then the tricky part comes from finding out what each channel's call sign (name) is.

research.backchannelmedia.com/dma/show/San_Francisco-Oak-San_Jose has that information. It was last updated 6/20/09.

That link takes you to a Google cache copy of the page.

Since the TVGOS call sign names keep changing having an up to date version of that page is useful.

Backchannelmedia has made their content unavailable the last week, saying they are upgrading their website. I wonder if this really just means that they won't be making this info available anymore. That would be unfortunate because it has a been a great place to look for getting TVGOS channel settings correct. (and I know of no alternative)
)

update2(
The TVGOS call sign names are sometimes quite different from what is in the PSIP info that the stations themselves broadcast. So the task for finding out what they are isn't as simple as one might first guess. I have no idea why they are different though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSIP

Towards the end of this message from 5/23/09 in the DTVPal thread I mentioned that I think the FCC should mandate the transmission of the Facility ID number so that call signs that change don't impact consumers.
)

You might try giving them a call. Do you get any customer support with that product?

There's a new lower power digital station on the air from Mt. San Bruno... KFTL on channels 28-1 and 28-2.

It'll be interesting to see how far their 15 kW ERP signal will reach.

Larry
SF

Two of the three channels that you are not receiving are HD channels - 720 for both 2.1 and 1080 for 5.1 - which would seem to indicate that your signal quality and strength are not sufficient. But receiving 4.2 at 720 is counter intuitive to that theory. There are several changes that have occurred in the last 30 days - transmit frequency, antenna location, weather - that in combination could impede your reception. Do a re-scan today and tomorrow in the afternoon when the temperature peaks and see if you lose more channels. If that occurs you probably need to address the issues with your antenna.

San Francisco, California
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=6
click KRON-TV

says 4.1 is 480i
says 4.2 is 720p

So much for conventional wisdom saying that the HD channel will be on .1.

I've only been getting digital TV for 7 months or so. But in that time I've yet to see a non-HD subchannel come in when an adjacent HD subchannel isn't. It is either all are fine or none are.

Except yesterday I did notice my reception of KMTP was breaking up on all subchannels except the one that was running a low resolution rebroadcast of NASA's live feed of activity in space. Some guy floating around doing some task...

update1(
KMTP doesn't have any HD subchannels, of course. I just meant this was the first instance of experiencing something like this. I would've thought I would have seen it more often on the other channels by now.
)

It's on? Great! Can I get some data on that?

- Trip

I recently started getting it in San Jose (zip 95118).