or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › San Francisco, CA - OTA
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 287

post #8581 of 10423
Is anyone else not receiving program guide data from KNTV? It's been over a week for me and I did try and contact them via their web page last week but no response and no change in what I am seeing.
post #8582 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekj View Post

Is anyone else not receiving program guide data from KNTV? It's been over a week for me and I did try and contact them via their web page last week but no response and no change in what I am seeing.

Hi,

I see no "Program Guide data" for KNTV @ 3:15 PM 4/24/2012.

That's why I pay $25 / Year for great program listings from SD, up to 10 days in advance:

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

You can look at the same data at ZAP2it:

http://affiliate.zap2it.com/tvlistin...?noDesc=toggle

Also TitanTV:

http://www.titantv.com/

------------------------------
Right from the beginning is was foreseen that the stations would do a horrible job providing "Program Guide data".

That has been shown to be true.

But do not forget about channel 1.1, they are still providing their service.

I looked at a printed copy of TVGuide and found that nearly 100% of the programs I capture and watch later are not listed at all.

SHF
post #8583 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekj View Post

Is anyone else not receiving program guide data from KNTV? It's been over a week for me and I did try and contact them via their web page last week but no response and no change in what I am seeing.

My tv shows the last EPG update from KNTV was on 4 / 18
Yes, it appears to be a KNTV problem.
post #8584 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

Really?
Opposite for me.
I lose KNTV when the temps get above 85 or so. KGO gets iffy too.
KPIX will also disappear to but not near as much as the above two.

Well, you state that you are in Northern Santa Rosa in an earlier thread. I am in A different area in the north so I would imagine that for that reason alone that it could have much to do with the differences that we experience in warm summer weather.
post #8585 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

Hi,

Right from the beginning is was foreseen that the stations would do a horrible job providing "Program Guide data".

SHF

TV manufacturers are doing a poor job of supporting the program guide.
Television stations are doing a poor job of providing a program guide.
And some cable companies (COX for example) are stripping out whatever program guide was originally included.

And I'm sure that each is using the excuse that the other isn't keeping up their end to explain why they don't bother to properly support a program guide.
post #8586 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post


My tv shows the last EPG update from KNTV was on 4 / 18
Yes, it appears to be a KNTV problem.

I just looked and it is up to date as I type, 4/25.
post #8587 of 10423
I received an email this evening from Rich Tom, the Chief Engineer of KGO-TV.

After asking about my retirement he wrote:

You may want to let the folks at the AVS Forum know that I do follow the forum occasionally. That is how I found out RF-35 in San Jose was down. I am working on the remote monitoring for the site, but in the mean time, please do let me know by posting a note on the forum if it goes down. Also let them know that I am working on two possible translator sites in the East Bay. One is to cover the San Ramon/Pleasanton/Livermore area, and the other is to cover the Antioch/Pittsburg/Concord/Walnut Creek area. Funding will determine how soon we can get this done.

- - -

Apparently translators don't require monitoring, so you folks down in the South Bay are the ones letting the KGO engineers know that they have a problem.

The two proposed translators will certainly help you folks on the other side of the East Bay Hills!

Larry
SF
post #8588 of 10423
The FCC has released their TV channel-sharing order that lays out the framework for allowing two TV stations to share one 6 MHz channel assignment. You can read all of the details here:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/...details/213215

I wonder if we'll see any channel sharing here in Northern California? It's going to be interesting to see what the various TV stations decide to do.

Larry
SF
post #8589 of 10423
Okay.....so under "Channel Sharing" the public will lose 120MHz of airwaves that were "free"
And transfer that to "Pay" providers to now charge us for its use.
The public is getting screwed.
That spectrum should remain "Free" to the public.
How about free wireless "Internet Sharing" in that spectrum ? (That basically can replace the one-way tv channel it replaced)
"Channel Sharing"..... a cute name to screw $$ the public $$$
$$$$
post #8590 of 10423
I know several things can cause poor reception. But I am hoping someone has a magic bullet. lol
Using my hdhr numbers.
KTVU has a average signal strength of 75, and the signal quality is 85-90
KPIX has a average signal strength of 85, but the signal quality is between 55-65.
For me, signal qualitly is the important number. I lose picture if it gets below 55.
Is there anything I can do to bring the sigal quality up? I have tried diffent antennas, spliters, amplifiers and tried different positions of the antennas.
But the signal quality never seems to improve on certain channels.
Suggestions?
post #8591 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

I know several things can cause poor reception. But I am hoping someone has a magic bullet. lol
Using my hdhr numbers.
KTVU has a average signal strength of 75, and the signal quality is 85-90
KPIX has a average signal strength of 85, but the signal quality is between 55-65.
For me, signal qualitly is the important number. I lose picture if it gets below 55.
Is there anything I can do to bring the sigal quality up? I have tried diffent antennas, spliters, amplifiers and tried different positions of the antennas.
But the signal quality never seems to improve on certain channels.
Suggestions?

I don't see a rotor in the different things you've tried. If multipath is the issue with KPIX, an alternate aim might increase signal quality. It might come at the expense of signal strength, but that doesn't matter with digital. So, if you could lower the signal strength down a bit, the multipath might not be as large a problem, etc. etc.

There are lots of "ifs" in this approach.
post #8592 of 10423
iitywygms... I think multipath is the most probable cause of the lower quality on KPIX. It most likely has to do with their frequency (channel) since they transmit from the same antenna, with the same power, as KTVU. (KRON uses the same antenna, too, by the way.)

You've tried just about everything... antenna, splitter, preamp, etc., but have you tried a different location for the antenna? I've found that just a few feet can make a big difference when trying to get more distant stations. I've got two CM4228's, both at about the same height, separated by about 18 feet. With one I get two stations from Walnut Grove quite well that I don't get with the other. However, the one that doesn't get the two stations from Walnut Grove picks up KRCB much stronger than the other one. Moving an antenna can be a major job, but it might solve your problem. Just be careful that it doesn't mess up another station that you want to get.

Good luck!

Larry
SF
post #8593 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

I know several things can cause poor reception. But I am hoping someone has a magic bullet. lol
Using my hdhr numbers.
KTVU has a average signal strength of 75, and the signal quality is 85-90
KPIX has a average signal strength of 85, but the signal quality is between 55-65.
For me, signal qualitly is the important number. I lose picture if it gets below 55.
Is there anything I can do to bring the sigal quality up? I have tried diffent antennas, spliters, amplifiers and tried different positions of the antennas.
But the signal quality never seems to improve on certain channels.
Suggestions?

Is this the only Sutro station exhibiting this sort of problem, good signal strength but low quality? I'm not familiar the meaning of the numbers with the HDHR. Is 75 a strong signal? What's the weakest signal that can still produce a picture? I'm asking about this because I'm wondering what minimum signal strength it takes to produce a quality near 100?

In my situation even though the Walnut Grove signals vary widely in signal strength, all are strong enough to produce a signal quality of 100% but the reality is they run 70 to 90% because of varying degrees of multipath.

I'm wondering if this is your situation or if there's something peculiar just to KPIX?

What's your antenna?

Chuck
post #8594 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Is this the only Sutro station exhibiting this sort of problem, good signal strength but low quality? I'm not familiar the meaning of the numbers with the HDHR. Is 75 a strong signal? What's the weakest signal that can still produce a picture? I'm asking about this because I'm wondering what minimum signal strength it takes to produce a quality near 100?

In my situation even though the Walnut Grove signals vary widely in signal strength, all are strong enough to produce a signal quality of 100% but the reality is they run 70 to 90% because of varying degrees of multipath.

I'm wondering if this is your situation or if there's something peculiar just to KPIX?

What's your antenna?

Chuck

I cant really determine what a strong signal is. 75 is not strong if compared to pbs out of Cotati,
The signal from Cotati is always 100 strength and quality.
But most of my stations from sutro normally run around 70 - 80 strength. So I guess 75 is good.

I use the newer version of a cm4228. I have a separate vhf antenna for 7 and 11.
You question about signal strength are hard to answer. With ktvu I can have a signal strength of 65 yet the signal quality is still around 80. I never lose ktvu signal. Never.
Kpix is a different animal. Signal strength shows around 80, but the signal quality fluctuates between 55 and 75 constantly. Anything below 55 (quality) and the picture start to break up.


Larry:

I have tried moving the antennas around in a 5-6 for area, but nothing seemed to help.
I have not tried the other side of the house, but I guess I could?
post #8595 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

I cant really determine what a strong signal is. 75 is not strong if compared to pbs out of Cotati,
The signal from Cotati is always 100 strength and quality.
But most of my stations from sutro normally run around 70 - 80 strength. So I guess 75 is good.

I realize that it is very hard to troubleshoot problems like this in this sort of format.

Is there any station you can receive with a low number, like 20 or something like that?

As Larry suggested, it sounds like multipath issues. I know the 91XG has a better overall pattern than the CM4228. I know of situations (including mine) where that's the only antenna good enough for reception. I'm hesitant to recommend that you buy one because I don't know all the details of your location. This is a "pays your money, takes your chances" situation.

Chuck
post #8596 of 10423
It is safe to say if the signal strength is below 65, I dont get the station.
If the signal quality if below 55, I dont get the station.
The above numbers are from the hdhr gui.

I tried a 91xg in the past. I posted the results on this forum months back.
With the 91xg, the numbers were a little stronger, but with the 91xg the signal quality would fluctuate widely.
post #8597 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

I know several things can cause poor reception. But I am hoping someone has a magic bullet. lol
Is there anything I can do to bring the sigal quality up? I have tried diffent antennas, spliters, amplifiers and tried different positions of the antennas.
But the signal quality never seems to improve on certain channels.
Suggestions?


What is the signal quality with the UHF antenna plugged directly to "1" tv ?
(UHF Antenna + say 25 feet of RG-6 cable + tv jack)

No splitters, ... No amps,.... No UHF/VHF combiners
The quality level should be near the same ....(if properly hooked up.)
If quality level goes way up .... That means cable, amp, splitter issues,
Some consumer grade amps add 10db of noise.

The numbers "at the antenna" need to be maintained when you add VHF/UHF combiners, amps, indoor splitters, etc.
post #8598 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post

What is the signal quality with the UHF antenna plugged directly to "1" tv ?
(UHF Antenna + say 25 feet of RG-6 cable + tv jack)

No splitters, ... No amps,.... No UHF/VHF combiners
The quality level should be near the same ....(if properly hooked up.)
If quality level goes way up .... That means cable, amp, splitter issues,
Some consumer grade amps add 10db of noise.

The numbers "at the antenna" need to be maintained when you add VHF/UHF combiners, amps, indoor splitters, etc.

Hmm, not sure. I will have to look at that sometime. It will be a few weeks before I can get around to it but I appreciate the help.
post #8599 of 10423
Hi,

I live in Albany, and I'm newbie to getting channels OTA. I got a Mohu Leaf and attached it to my Samsung LN46D630. I started going through the channels one by one to have my Samsung tuner "discover" the available channels. That worked pretty well.

However, I'm unable to get KTVU. When I go to 44 it picks up KBCW. But 45 is the listed channel for KBCW. I went to antenna web, and it appears both channels are coming from the same tower, so I wouldn't expect the problem to be reception??? Does anybody know what the issue might be???

Thanks,
Stephanie
post #8600 of 10423
Stephanie,

You have to let the tuner in the TV set perform an autoscan unassisted. When you manually tuned in the channels, the Samsung's tuner got confused because "44" is the real channel for virtual channel 2 and is also the virtual channel for real channel 45. Confused? Yep, so is your tuner!

You might need to execute the scan with no antenna hooked up first in order to flush the corrupted data from memory. Then, hook the antenna up and redo the autoscan.
post #8601 of 10423
ProjectSHO89,

Thanks for the clarification, that was a big help. I had to dig around to find the autoscan. It's much simpler. I disconnected my antenna and had it autoscan to flush it out, and show no channels in memory. Then I had it scan again. It did find many channels. Unfortunately, it didn't find KTVU. Do you think the problem is my tuner? Or just that some channels can't be picked up by my antenna range/positioning?

-Stephanie
post #8602 of 10423
Antenna....
post #8603 of 10423
Relocate the antenna (preferably to a location that faces Sutro) and repeat the scan. Ensure the Leaf is oriented so the cable is at the bottom and either flat sided of the panel is facing broadside towards Sutro.

Rinse and repeat as needed.

KTVU puts plenty of signal power into your area and the antenna you have should be adequate as long as multi-path isn't the problem. Give it a few tries and see how it works.
post #8604 of 10423
Brilliant! I've got KTVU now! Thank you so much. -Stephanie
post #8605 of 10423
Is anybody in Santa Rosa getting ...K02Qo-D (2) ? ....Noise Margin here in Hayward +20 db
From the same tower location of KFTY-50 / KEMO-32 ? .... NM in Hayward -16
Santa Rosa viewers will need to do a "double-scan". OR Update scan depending on your equipment.
(Unplug cable... scan) .... Plug cable... scan 2 should be the first station to show up.
Also note to have a full band VHF antenna hooked up before scanning.
I'm not seeing 2 here. (With a quick test)

Also missing from the North Bay .......
K14MW-D (3) and KDAS (48)
Not seeing these also.
post #8606 of 10423
According to the FCC info, K02QO is not on the air from Mt. St. Helena but they do have a construction permit. They're on the air from a lower site not receivable in Hayward.

K14MW (along with KTVJ) have not constructed their Mt. Tam transmitters on 3 and 4, probably never will. K14MW is digital on 14 from a low site north of Santa Rosa, not receivable in Hayward.

KDAS is analog on 48 from with a very small coverage area up the coast. They have not constructed their new higher digital facility which might be receivable in Hayward.

Chuck
post #8607 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post

Is anybody in Santa Rosa getting ...K02Qo-D (2) ? ....Noise Margin here in Hayward +20 db
From the same tower location of KFTY-50 / KEMO-32 ? .... NM in Hayward -16
Santa Rosa viewers will need to do a "double-scan". OR Update scan depending on your equipment.
(Unplug cable... scan) .... Plug cable... scan 2 should be the first station to show up.
Also note to have a full band VHF antenna hooked up before scanning.
I'm not seeing 2 here. (With a quick test)

Also missing from the North Bay .......
K14MW-D (3) and KDAS (48)
Not seeing these also.

I'm located in Northern Santa Rosa and don't receive Channel 50 or K02Qo-D because I'm shielded by a hill. I received most of the SF stations using a modified CM-4220 with the reflector removed.
post #8608 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

K14MW (along with KTVJ) have not constructed their Mt. Tam transmitters on 3 and 4, probably never will. K14MW is digital on 14 from a low site north of Santa Rosa, not receivable in Hayward.

Mt.Tam is LOS to here. 14 here is used from Mt. Diablo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

KDAS is analog on 48 from with a very small coverage area up the coast. They have not constructed their new higher digital facility which might be receivable in Hayward.

Chuck

Digital 48 is LOS to Hayward, but with only +8 db NM (Way lower than 47 )
But a huge antenna for just 1 station is not planned.
My SF antenna is aimed at 47, Sutro & San Bruno are so powerful here, anything metal works. A paperclip stuck in the coax jack brings UHF with ease.
Sutro NM is +60 db
post #8609 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post

Digital 48 is LOS to Hayward, but with only +8 db NM (Way lower than 47 )

I assume you're referring to KSTS on RF 49 in Fremont. How can it be LOS to you and so weak? It's closer than San Francisco. RF 48 is KSPX in Walnut Grove which I'm sure isn't LOS.

Chuck
post #8610 of 10423
I have been having issue receiving KNTV from Southbay for months. I have a UHF antenna and KNTV is on Ch 12. KNTV is the last station that is in the VHF range in my area so I am not very willing to change my antenna for it.

The thing that bothers me is that I had no problem with KNTV for 2011. Only this year I noticed very bad reception. Olympics is just around the corner and it would suck that I cannot record it reliably.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Local HDTV Info and Reception
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › San Francisco, CA - OTA