or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › San Francisco, CA - OTA
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 291

post #8701 of 10451
Hi, Chuck

there was some one else that lived near the road up to Mt. Hamilton that had similar problems that I tried to help before "TV Fool Google map" was available. No luck for him at all.

It will be helpful if zip codes are included, then "TV Fool Google map" will give a overhead view and you can see the hills in the way.

Http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

A person in the Almaden Valley on [HDTV-in-SFbay] wanted to cut Cable but had problems with KGO.

He was excited when I told him about KGO RF 35 but could not get it due to the Santa Teresa Hills.

EDIT: Coyote hills corrected to Santa Teresa Hills

He then went on installing a VHF antenna to get KGO RF 7 better but I may have failed in my suggestion to use a VHF / UHF combiner being accepted.

He never came back with the results. I hate when that happens. mad.gif

KGO RF 35 is NOT a slam dunk for many locations in the South Bay. frown.gif

SHF
Edited by SFischer1 - 6/11/12 at 11:27pm
post #8702 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

im a mile or so east of santa teresa county park, and as the profile of my view to KGO-LD shows im 2 edge to mt allison.

You're in one of the few bad areas that I mentioned. I looked at the transmitter overlays for that area and it's bad for everything. The Fremont transmitters are the least bad. For probably 98% of the south, west and east bay (south of Hayward) the Fremont location is excellent.

It is possible to be in a location that is so bad no antenna will work. There are many locations like that around here. I think the San Lorenzo Valley is another. I used to know people who lived over there and they said OTA was just all ghosts from Sutro. Some could get Salinas okay.

Chuck
post #8703 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

He was excited when I told him about KGO RF 35 but could not get it due to the Coyote hills.

Coyote Hills are in northwest Fremont. They don't block signals from Fremont to the Almaden Valley. Must be something else in the way.
Quote:
He never came back with the results. I hate when that happens. mad.gif

Yeah, that happens a lot.
Quote:
KGO RF 35 is NOT a slam dunk for many locations in the South Bay. frown.gif

Of course you can find many nooks and crannies tucked back in the hills that will get little or no reception but I was referring to the majority of the people who live in the flatlands of the South Bay and none of them should have a problem.

Chuck
post #8704 of 10451
yeah steve, the south part of almaden valley can be bad. new almaden is even worse.

that ridge that blocks my reception runs up the entire length of the east side of the valley to mt hamiltion, those 2 create a shadow for alot of the east side of town .
post #8705 of 10451
KGO Channel 7.1 ABC OTA TV is normally not a problem for me here in the flatlands of Berkeley, CA, but at least 1/2 of my recording of the NBA finals game last night was unwatchable due to breakup of the recorded signal. This morning my MyHD 120 PCI HDTV card's signal for the station hovers around 40%. Is there something wrong with them? I went up on my roof, and the antenna hasn't changed directions (pointed at Sutro tower), my other major stations (Fox 2.1, CBS 5.1, KQED 9.1, KNBC 11.1) have over 70%, NBC 11.1 shows 100% .
post #8706 of 10451
It's hard to troubleshoot a problem like this from afar. If it just suddenly went from good to bad maybe there is a bad cable connection or a balun or a power splitter. 70% doesn't sound all that good to me when you're just across the bay from the transmitters. Do you have a TV with a tuner you could use to eliminate the PC card?

Chuck
post #8707 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

KGO Channel 7.1 ABC OTA TV is normally not a problem for me here in the flatlands of Berkeley, CA, but at least 1/2 of my recording of the NBA finals game last night was unwatchable due to breakup of the recorded signal. This morning my MyHD 120 PCI HDTV card's signal for the station hovers around 40%. Is there something wrong with them? I went up on my roof, and the antenna hasn't changed directions (pointed at Sutro tower), my other major stations (Fox 2.1, CBS 5.1, KQED 9.1, KNBC 11.1) have over 70%, NBC 11.1 shows 100% .

I would check / investigate all electrical items in use during the problem period..... Such as a Fluorescent light (4 foot tubes, T8 Electronic Ballasted) under the roof of the antenna.
The computer itself, ETC.
Older fluorescent lights (With a metal encased) magnetic ballast .... are not a problem.
Newer electronic & plastic encased ballasts (Low quality), and ballast covers stamped "Commercial use only" have caused problems here.
This may not be your specific problem, but I have noticed this item in particular... has caused problems here on VHF only. Generally if used within 15 feet of the antenna (Indoors or out)
Cell phone pinging and data transfer cycles has caused problems here with UHF only. (If phone is placed near, or on top of the tv) Again, used near a PLASTIC covered converter box. (Low quality)
Find out what it is.... There should be no problems in the metro reception area.
post #8708 of 10451
KGO 7 is often problematic here, but KNTV also on VHF is rock solid, except one time it started coming and going. And all the uhf stations were fine and i was afraid i was going to have to replace my vhf antenna.

i checked the coax connection to the tuner and it had loosened enough to effect reception. all it took was to tighten it up and voila good 11.1 was good as ever.
post #8709 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

It's hard to troubleshoot a problem like this from afar. If it just suddenly went from good to bad maybe there is a bad cable connection or a balun or a power splitter. 70% doesn't sound all that good to me when you're just across the bay from the transmitters. Do you have a TV with a tuner you could use to eliminate the PC card?
Chuck
My TV is 1989 analog and I have a Zenith converter box for it. Don't know if I could use that in any way. I don't think the MyHD 120 PCI HDTV card is the greatest for sensitivity, but I hardly ever get problems like this.
post #8710 of 10451
Chuck, "70%" is a reasonably good OTA signal reading for MyHD, which evidently has a very conservative scale. My best channels here are in the 50s on MyHD and 90+ on FusionHDTV or HDHomerun tuners. OTOH, any MyHD OTA reading above 25% gives pretty stable viewing.
post #8711 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

do you really know which one you are receiving? I can directly select RF channels so what one I am looking at is known. (HDHomeRun)
KTVU RF 44 looks real good just like it has always.
The TiVo only knew about the RF44 version. The signal strength meter also tells you the RF channel as well as the PSIP channel. I just did a scan and it found RF48, that's coming in nice and strong, probably the strongest channel I have with a strength of 99. RF44 is still bad a strength of 0-36 and unusable again. I thought it was going to get better when it moved to 44 from 56, 56 was the highest channel and flakiest one I had.

RF48 is showing up as PSIP 2.1/2.2 as well, but its calling itself KTVU-HD/KTVU-SD rather than KTVUDT/??. Now I just need to get TiVo to supply guide data for RF48.
post #8712 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Chuck, "70%" is a reasonably good OTA signal reading for MyHD, which evidently has a very conservative scale. My best channels here are in the 50s on MyHD and 90+ on FusionHDTV or HDHomerun tuners. OTOH, any MyHD OTA reading above 25% gives pretty stable viewing.

From what I've seen myself, and from what people describe, there seems to be two kinds of Signal Quality meters. One of them uses the full range of 0-100% and will lock a signal at some low number, maybe 20% or lower. The other kind of meter won't lock a signal until it reads perhaps 5x%. It never displays lower numbers. Overall the lowest lock percentage equates to about 15.2 dB SNR and 100% is usually around 30-32 dB SNR on both types of meters. 70% on a 0-100% meter should be around 26 dB SNR which certainly is fine. But if someone is just across the bay from Sutro and is only getting 70% then there is some sort of reception issue. The few stations that I can receive that either are not very weak or don't suffer from multipath are all close to 100%.

Chuck

Edit: I realized that if you translate 0-30 dB SNR onto a 1-100% Signal Quality scale then 51% is 15.2 dB SNR which would explain why there are so many Signal Quality scales that don't read anything below 5x%. I guess that's fine but I think I prefer a scale where 0% is close to 15.2 dB and 100% is => 30 dB. On the other type of meter I'm going to take a guess that 1% is the lowest SNR that the tuner can phase lock the pilot carrier even though it can't decode a signal that weak. Seems like I read somewhere that that SNR is in the 10-12 db range. That would put a minimum decodable signal at around 25% on the that kind of scale which jibes with your MyHD OTA.
Edited by Calaveras - 6/19/12 at 12:51pm
post #8713 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwyx View Post

The TiVo only knew about the RF44 version. The signal strength meter also tells you the RF channel as well as the PSIP channel. I just did a scan and it found RF48, that's coming in nice and strong, probably the strongest channel I have with a strength of 99. RF44 is still bad a strength of 0-36 and unusable again. I thought it was going to get better when it moved to 44 from 56, 56 was the highest channel and flakiest one I had.
RF48 is showing up as PSIP 2.1/2.2 as well, but its calling itself KTVU-HD/KTVU-SD rather than KTVUDT/??. Now I just need to get TiVo to supply guide data for RF48.

Hi,

When I got my new $$$$ antenna system the only station from Sutro / Mt. San Bruno that I had problems with was KKPX RF 41 PSID 65 (ION).

Edit: Correction made as KKPX is not on Sutro but both are so cloce to the exact same direction for me that I lump them together. smile.gif Other locations, YMMV.

It comes and goes due to multipath during the year.

Others are usually rock solid except due to inversions / wet leaves.

But then, if other transmitters get over excited, you cannot tell the difference.

Bookshelf top antenna gets KKPX just fine. (Sunnyale Community Center area)

RF 48 better than RF 44? What is your antenna and what direction is it pointing?

SHF
Edited by SFischer1 - 6/23/12 at 8:19am
post #8714 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

RF 48 better than RF 44? What is your antenna and what direction is it pointing?
I've got two. There's a 4228 pointed at Sutro, through some trees. There's also a smaller one pointed at Fremont, that has a clear line of sight. The two are joined together with a cable tuned to constructively interfere at RF50, which was the only channel I cared about in that direction. Now its picking up KGO on RF35 and KTVU on RF48 both quite strongly.

RF44 used to come through quite well, the trees are the big problem.
post #8715 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwyx View Post

I've got two. There's a 4228 pointed at Sutro, through some trees. There's also a smaller one pointed at Fremont, that has a clear line of sight. The two are joined together with a cable tuned to http://www.avsforum.com/t/381623/the-official-avs-antenna-and-related-hardware-topic#post_3552691 at RF50, which was the only channel I cared about in that direction. Now its picking up KGO on RF35 and KTVU on RF48 both quite strongly.
RF44 used to come through quite well, the trees are the big problem.

Hi,

The people at:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/381623/the-official-avs-antenna-and-related-hardware-topic#post_3552691

might understand you, I sure do not. Yes, I have been reading that thread for some time.

The link to your post does not show up as clickable and copy and pasted goes to the first post.

You may need help from the "administrator" like I did.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1413954/absolutely-awful/60#post_22105100

SHF
post #8716 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Chuck, "70%" is a reasonably good OTA signal reading for MyHD, which evidently has a very conservative scale. My best channels here are in the 50s on MyHD and 90+ on FusionHDTV or HDHomerun tuners. OTOH, any MyHD OTA reading above 25% gives pretty stable viewing.

From what I've seen myself, and from what people describe, there seems to be two kinds of Signal Quality meters. One of them uses the full range of 0-100% and will lock a signal at some low number, maybe 20% or lower. The other kind of meter won't lock a signal until it reads perhaps 5x%. It never displays lower numbers. Overall the lowest lock percentage equates to about 15.2 dB SNR and 100% is usually around 30-32 dB SNR on both types of meters. 70% on a 0-100% meter should be around 26 dB SNR which certainly is fine. But if someone is just across the bay from Sutro and is only getting 70% then there is some sort of reception issue. The few stations that I can receive that either are not very weak or don't suffer from multipath are all close to 100%.

Chuck

Edit: I realized that if you translate 0-30 dB SNR onto a 1-100% Signal Quality scale then 51% is 15.2 dB SNR which would explain why there are so many Signal Quality scales that don't read anything below 5x%. I guess that's fine but I think I prefer a scale where 0% is close to 15.2 dB and 100% is => 30 dB. On the other type of meter I'm going to take a guess that 1% is the lowest SNR that the tuner can phase lock the pilot carrier even though it can't decode a signal that weak. Seems like I read somewhere that that SNR is in the 10-12 db range. That would put a minimum decodable signal at around 25% on the that kind of scale which jibes with your MyHD OTA.

It is far worse than that. There are as many types of signal quality/power meters as there are TVs with quality/power meters. They all seem to do it differently. Even if they use the same chip set, the software may scale the results differently, and what might be a good signal level for one TV could overdrive, or be not enough signal for another. There are no standards here.
post #8717 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAP View Post

It is far worse than that. There are as many types of signal quality/power meters as there are TVs with quality/power meters. They all seem to do it differently. Even if they use the same chip set, the software may scale the results differently,

It's true I've seen a lot of variations but in most cases they fall into the two categories I described. I'm sure you can find an example of something truly bizarre.
Quote:
and what might be a good signal level for one TV could overdrive, or be not enough signal for another.

I'd have to see actual test data before I'd believe this. Any tuner that fell into one of those categories would be mostly useless and I doubt the manufacturer would be in business long.
Quote:
There are no standards here.

Although there is no official standard that any tuner has to meet, ATSC A/74 is the de facto standard.

http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2006MAY/PDF/EEOL_2006MAY01_ACC_DSP_OPT_TA.pdf?SOURCES=DOWNLOAD

I've commonly seen manufacturers claim their chip set meets or exceeds ATSC A/74.

Chuck
post #8718 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

Hi,
The people at:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/381623/the-official-avs-antenna-and-related-hardware-topic#post_3552691
might understand you, I sure do not. Yes, I have been reading that thread for some time.
The link to your post does not show up as clickable and copy and pasted goes to the first post.
You may need help from the "administrator" like I did.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1413954/absolutely-awful/60#post_22105100
SHF
That's not my link. In my post I wrote "Construtivly interfere", you see a link. There's something borked about this board, even more than the obvious.
post #8719 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwyx View Post

That's not my link. In my post I wrote "Construtivly interfere", you see a link. There's something borked about this board, even more than the obvious.

Hi,

Perhaps I hit paste when I wanted to copy, that could be my bad. redface.gifconfused.gif

Anyway, I do not understand and do not like any joining of two UHF antennas except for adding a single channel using a "joinantenna".

If you wish to explain please do it in:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/381623/the-official-avs-antenna-and-related-hardware-topic#post_3552691

Those people can much better discuss your RF 48 > RF 44 which to me sounds like a problem of joining two UHF antennas in a way that works very rarely.

I have great problems posting now due to by eyes being repaired so I must pass your problem over to them.

SHF
post #8720 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Chuck, "70%" is a reasonably good OTA signal reading for MyHD, which evidently has a very conservative scale. My best channels here are in the 50s on MyHD and 90+ on FusionHDTV or HDHomerun tuners. OTOH, any MyHD OTA reading above 25% gives pretty stable viewing.
I was tuned to ABC 7.1 the other day and was watching the signal strength bounce around and saw it actually go to 0% for a moment. The playback of the timeshift that was ongoing was paused at that point, but I suppose when I got to viewing that point there was another breakup. I've been watching some of the NBA Finals games on ABC, and some of it's fine, some of it's pretty tough viewing with the breaking up of the signal. Here I am in the flatlands of Berkeley with a pretty good shot at Sutro Tower and my rooftop antenna (pretty good one) is pointed right at the tower. Didn't used to have these problems. Yes, the cabling from the antenna to the MyHD card has to be suspect. It's been several years since I ran it. Could be a bad connection in there, but I don't have problems with the other stations, and NBC 11.1 is showing 100%.
post #8721 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

I was tuned to ABC 7.1 the other day and was watching the signal strength bounce around and saw it actually go to 0% for a moment. The playback of the timeshift that was ongoing was paused at that point, but I suppose when I got to viewing that point there was another breakup. I've been watching some of the NBA Finals games on ABC, and some of it's fine, some of it's pretty tough viewing with the breaking up of the signal.

I watched the KGO and the early network news from 4 to 5 pm today and the signal was solid, better than average so it's not them. You'll understand if I say that it boggles my mind when I'm receiving KGO 110 miles away with no problem but there are reports here of people less than 30 miles away that have a problem. smile.gif

Chuck
post #8722 of 10451
I received the following information from the KGO Transmitter Engineer regarding the Channel 35 Translator and he said to please pass it on the members of the SF HD Yahoo Group and SF OTA Thread on the AVS Forum.

He said that they spent several hours at Mt. Allison on Tuesday working on the translator to try and figure out why the video and audio have been going out. Viewers have reported that the signal remains strong but the picture intermittently goes black and the sound goes away.

The translator simply takes the channel 7 signal from Sutro and re-transmits it on channel 35, so one possibility for the loss of picture and sound is the loss of signal feeding the translator. If it drops to 16 dB SNR there will be break up and if it drops to the cliff edge at about 15.5 dB the signal will disappear. He said that they worked on the receive antenna to try and improve the signal. They attached a signal strength meter to the receiver and a DTV signal analyzer on the antenna output. The signal level being received on channel 7 before they started was at 51.5 dBuv (dB/microvolt) with a SNR@ 20 db and fairly stable. They moved the receive antenna about 2 feet higher on the tower and the signal level went up to 55.1 dBuv and a SNR@ 22 db stable signal. This is an increase of 2 dB SNR headroom.

They don' t know if this will solve the signal drop-out problem but it's a possible solution. Maybe the 2 dB will be enough to handle signal fluctuations. Another symptom of the problem could be that the PSIP is occasionally not being decoded causing the input signal to disappear, so they worked on that as well.

Since it's an intermittent problem they have to try several different possible fixes to see what works. He said that they will keep working on this and see if they can solve the problem. He said to remember that this is KGO’s first translator and they're learning and trying new solutions as they are moving forward.

One more option they're exploring is to install a microwave system between the KGO studios and Mt. Allison. Then they can send an ASI stream directly to Allison to drive the exciters and use the receive antenna as a backup source. The microwave is not a perfect solution though, because the path is at the maximum fade margin and it is over water, and it does experience signal fading occasionally.

They are also planning to install an off-air monitor at the site and put a web cam on it to monitor the transmitter output.

Further reports from you, the viewers here, would be appreciated.

Larry
SF
post #8723 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

They attached a signal strength meter to the receiver and a DTV signal analyzer on the antenna output. The signal level being received on channel 7 before they started was at 51.5 dBuv (dB/microvolt) with a SNR@ 20 db and fairly stable. They moved the receive antenna about 2 feet higher on the tower and the signal level went up to 55.1 dBuv and a SNR@ 22 db stable signal. This is an increase of 2 dB SNR headroom.

Thanks for passing this along Larry.

I think they need to look into why they have such a poor SNR. A signal of 55.1 dBuv (-57.25 dBm) should easily provide an SNR of > 30 dB and Mt. Allison is certainly LOS to Mt. Sutro so multipath issues are unlikely. An SNR of 20 dB with that much signal is a big red flag that there is a problem. It could be they're having receive issues since they're so close to a number of high power transmitters.

I ran TVFool for Mt. Allison and it predicts KGO to have a signal of -39 dBm. I have to wonder why their measured signal is 22 dB below the predicted level? TVFool is usually decent with LOS signal predictions.

Chuck

Edit: Typo
Edited by Calaveras - 6/23/12 at 7:07am
post #8724 of 10451
Chuck... Would you like me to pass your comments on to Rich, the KGO transmitter engineer?

Larry
SF
post #8725 of 10451
I noticed yesterday that KEMO 50 now has a 50.2 sub-channel. They're presently transmitting color bars, but I suspect some new channel will soon be forth-coming there.

On the other hand, I thought that was what was going to happen at KTNC 42 when they started transmitting color bars on 42.4, but it's been months now and they're still sending out color bars.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Larry
SF
post #8726 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Chuck... Would you like me to pass your comments on to Rich, the KGO transmitter engineer?
Larry
SF

Sure. Maybe it'll point them in another direction. I have a friend who lives 5 miles north of here using a Winegard YA-1713 at 30' and he receives KGO all the time with an SNR around 27 dB. When I compare the two situations I find it puzzling as to why they're not getting a stronger signal and higher SNR on Mt. Allison.

Chuck
post #8727 of 10451
I was bored this weekend (and the idea of pointing a webcam at a monitor sounded so Rube Goldbergy), so I started taking measurements with my HD Homerun of rf 7 and rf 35; and I got them graphed this evening.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=35

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=7

Methodology is described here: http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/

Basically I do the following every 15 minutes:

check if i'm planning to record anytime soon (if so, skip everything else)
ask tuner to tune to rf channel 7
sleep 5 seconds
get program stream information
for 30 seconds, record signal strength parameters once a second
get program stream information again

do everything again for channel 35

For the chart, I take all the data points for a 15 minute interval and average them, I also report below the chart on PSIP changes (but I've also made the raw data available). I'm not super happy with the charting yet, so I'll probably make changes... I'm not super sure what all the measurements mean either. Does anyone know what an HDHR's symbol quality means for example? since it looks like that was wavering quite a bit on rf35 this evening

I'm located near San Carlos and Bascom in San Jose, my setup is a CM 4228 HD pointed at Sutro with a splitter, and a short run to the HD Homerun, and then a longer run to the TV in my living room.

[edit, symbol quality wavering, not signal quality]
post #8728 of 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by toast0 View Post

Does anyone know what an HDHR's symbol quality means for example?

I don't own an HDHR but I found this post at the TVFool forum:

http://forum.tvfool.com/showpost.php?p=8290&postcount=13

It appears to be the same as the error count on my Sony. You'd want that to be 100%, i.e. no errors after correction. Maybe you've captured the problem KGO is having with the translator since I don't see any signal strength or SNR problems in your graph.

Chuck
post #8729 of 10451
Noise Margin - TV Fool Predictions vs Measured

I made a comment recently about TVFool being in the ballpark for predicting LOS signals. I knew that in my case their predictions were very pessimistic for non-LOS stations. I didn't have any real data on it though. The other day I took some data when the station signal strengths were typical of what I receive. The chart below shows the results. The listed stations are ones I receive pretty much 100% of the time. The stations highlighted in green are LOS and the rest are one or two edges. I could not include two LOS stations; KEXT because it is analog and KCSO because I don't have a low VHF antenna and their transmit antenna pattern in my direction has problems so results wouldn't mean anything compared to TVFool.

Noise Figure Measured is the amount of attenuation I need to place between the antenna and the preamp to lower the SNR to 15.5 to 16 dB, just above the cliff.

Noise Margin Predicted by TVFool are the numbers taken from my TVFool results.

Antenna Gain are the numbers modeled for the 91XG from the HDTV Primer page and the predicted gain from the design program for my homemade high VHF log periodic antennas. I added 2.5 dB to each number because I'm using a pair of each antenna. TV Fool states that they don't take into account antenna gain.

Noise Figure Improvement is the improvement in my system noise figure by using preamps over the TV by itself. I assume that TV Fool is using 6 dB for the TV.

Total Noise Margin Predicted is the summation of the TV Fool Prediction + Antenna Gain + NF Improvement.

Measured-Predicted is the delta between what I measured and the Total Predicted Noise Margin.

In all cases the predicted for LOS stations is greater than what I measure but KBSV is much weaker than I would expect. I have no explanation but KBSV is a goofy station so I don't trust them to be doing what they say. KMMW and KUVS are in the ballpark.

In all cases the non-LOS stations are stronger to much stronger than predicted which is good news if that applies in most cases. KTNC is hugely stronger than predicted and I have no explanation for that.

Disclaimer: These are the results for my location only and I have no idea if anyone else can expect similar reception results.

Chuck

229
Edited by Calaveras - 6/26/12 at 9:50am
post #8730 of 10451
Longley-Rice doesn't deal well with knife-edge diffraction, which makes predictions in mountainous areas somewhat less reliable. It's nothing unique to TV Fool, that's just how the model is.

- Trip
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Local HDTV Info and Reception
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › San Francisco, CA - OTA