San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 293

You're in the south bay aren't you? Conditions affecting Mt. Allison are likely to affect you too.

A friend in Placerville, who is quite some distance from here, has trouble with the Walnut Grove stations (not necessarily the same stations) at the same time I do almost every time. A given set of conditions can affect a wide area.

It's impossible for the ERP to drop in one direction and not another with an omni directional antenna. It's impossible for the ERP to drop in one direction and not another with a directional antenna unless the antenna is rotated.

If a transmitter antenna was having a problem with a portion of the elements in the antenna that would be noticed at the transmitter because they monitor many parameters of the transmitter including VSWR for each transmitter rack.

So far, the only problem I can remember that has popped up on this forum that is attributable to the station and unrecognized by them was the KGO RF 35 issue. And that's a problem with reception, not the transmitter.

It's very common for one station to be more affected by atmospheric conditions (temperature inversions) than other stations at any receive location. I have that issue with KCRA and my Placerville friend has it with another station. There's no easy explanation why that's so but I have noticed that the same problem tends to repeat. I also see the same enhanced conditions repeat such as booming signals from Salinas. If you have trouble with KGO 7 at the same time that Mt. Allison has trouble then it's just a coincidence of your locations and the tendency for reception issues to be repetitive. Remember, correlation is not causation. Just because two locations experience a similar signal variation doesn't mean it's the transmitter.

Chuck

Edit: Add clarification
Edited by Calaveras - 7/24/12 at 12:49pm

Can I get some recommendations for an outdoor antenna that's good bang for the buck? I have two, actually, right now: the Weingard I mentioned yesterday and one I found on the curb a few years ago that I mounted on a separate mast and is pointed around 90 degrees counter-clockwise of the Weingard, which is (as I said) pointed LOS at Sutro Tower. The 2nd antenna is to pick up stations in the general direction of the south bay. At the moment I'm not using it because one of the two antenna connections on my MyHD 120 HDTV card is broken. Before the other antenna connection on my HDTV card broke, I was using it to pick up stations that the Weingard wasn't picking up such as PBS 54, Channel 36 (IIRC), and a few others. Maybe I can temporarily point that antenna at Sutro and use it and see if I'm getting better results. The stations I pick up pointing at Sutro are by and large the most important ones to me. I'm not a giant TV watcher, anyway. For the most part I've only been paying attention to the big network stations (CBS, NBC, ABC) not much else. I do have a MyHD 130 card (with daughterboard) with both antenna connections working, naturally, but just haven't taken the time to swap it out with my lame MyHD 120.

Replace also the cabling? I could, but it's more work. I think I have enough cable on a big spool I bought at Home Depot, that's not the issue, but to replace that I'll have to do a lot of crawling in the attic, remove the old cabling, etc. I think maybe I can keep what's in the house. I believe there's a connection in the attic where the outside portion joins the inside portion. I assume I can keep the inside portion because it hasn't been exposed to the elements (?). There is a splitter in the attic where I send one branch to my bedroom and its TV (analog, with a converter box).

The cable in the house should be okay but I'd inspect the center conductor in the cable to be sure it's not corroded. You just want to make sure water didn't get in there somehow. I also assume it's good quality RG-6 and not RG-59. Splitters can also be intermittent. Have you bypassed the splitter just to make sure that the problem isn't there?

Chuck

My 1984 Winegard catalog has the CS-7210 in it. That's definitely a city/suburban antenna. They claim 20 dB F/B ratio for it. Maybe, but it has only 5 elements for low and high VHF combined. I don't see how you can get 20 dB F/B ratio with only 5 elements for channels 2 - 13. Sounds too magical for me.

The modern equivalent from Winegard is probably the HD7694P:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd7694p&d=Winegard-HD-7694P-High-Definition-VHF%2FUHF-HDHD769-Series-TV-Antenna-(HD7694P)

with a claimed VHF F/B of around 15 dB and 20 dB on UHF. At least it has enough elements for that to be possible.

Chuck

Muse... Yes, before doing anything else try your other antenna! The reason I suggested getting a inexpensive antenna is to see if it's your antenna system or mutipath in your area that's causing your problem with channel 7. Since you already have another antenna, plug it in and see what you get with it. Save yourself the trouble and first try it without even turning it toward Sutro. What do you get for a signal from KGO with it? If that seems to work, then you can try turning it. Let us know what you get.

Larry
SF

KRON weather channel will be on OTA channel 4.2 replacing the SD feed of the main channel 4.

RG-6 cable was not that popular in 1990. The cable companies started using it in the 1980's
Scrap the cable. All of it. Even if new. ... Obsolete
Unless it's stamped "UL Listed" CATV RG-6 and you're sure that's what you have.
Without the CATV stamp, the cable is leaky.
Leaky means the cable itself leaks signal in & out even without the antenna attached.
At the antenna,.... If you cut the cable with tin snips. All channels / signals should be zero / no signal.
If you get stations with the cable attached & no antenna connected, signal is leaking in. (Not good)
If stamped "Foam Coax Assemblies" (Radio Shack) .......junk it.
If stamped "RG-59 CATV" UL Listed ...... Ok ... but not the best. (San Jose's A/B Cable tv system) "Ok" for tv antenna only. ..... "Not ok" for modern cable tv internet. " Not ok" for Dish antenna systems
Thin coax cables that come with new VCR's for jumpers ..... Junk
Only one bad cable ..... can leak signal into the entire cable system.
Edited by 888CALLFCC - 7/25/12 at 12:00am

The latest from KTNC:

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101509357&qnum=5010&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

Chuck

Hi,

They just cannot get a break!

I noted that should their efforts fail:

My questions are:

1. Are there any alternative sites that would allow KTNC to cover both the San Francisco and Sacramento areas? Would two separate sites and transmitters be needed, much more costly than their original plans.
2. Note: KTNC is already on Sutro, 38.3,The info-commercial was the same as KTNC-SF
3. Would they have any likely hood of success moving to another channel? What channel, perhaps a channel swap with another broadcaster would be necessary.
4. Would giving up and leasing sub channels on two other transmitters be less costly.
5. What is the age of the tower on Mt. Diablo? It sure appears to have lots of unused / old parts.

---

• KTNC-Br on 42.4 is still just color bars and tone.
• KTNC-Th on 42.3 is This TV where I capture a lot of Movies.
• KTNC-SA on 42.2 is their main Spanish Programming with commercials for Sacramento
• KTNC-SF on 42.1 is their main Spanish Programming with commercials for San Francisco

(I want my old movies!)

SHF
Edited by SFischer1 - 7/27/12 at 4:42pm

I don't know the answer to any of those questions but it doesn't matter to me. KTNC is > 31 dB SNR here when KAZV analog isn't interfering. KAZV has no permit or even an application for digital on file so I expect they'll go off the air in 3 years.

Chuck

Hi,

Yes. I think that Mt. Diablo is a perfect place to cover both SF and SAC, it's too bad that they are having so much trouble.

Maybe they should make a pact with the Devil, after all it's his mountain.

One thing that you might help with.

Having a sub-channel with color bars and a tone, that can't be part of looking for the problem according to my understanding of the ATSC system. Right?

SHF

What they really need is a new tower designed for a broadcast environment. It sounds like they have a very old unmaintained tower with a lot of unused abandoned equipment on it. It wasn't a problem when they were on channel 42 and KTFK was on 64 and their digital stations were on 62 and 63 but 14 is too close to the land mobile frequencies. A lot of money is being spent to clean up issues that may never be fully resolved with an old installation. The money might be better spent on a new tower. Good luck to them.

Chuck

Thanks for sharing the KTNC info, Chuck.

With just the 12 kW ERP, they have a very good signal here in San Francisco, usually around 26 dB SNR.

Larry

Hello,

I live in Santa Rosa and I have a clearstream4 (ya I know, but got it for cheap), and was wondering if anyone has had any success? I have yet to install it on my roof (it is a big job) and was wondering if it is worth the hassle of renting a tall ladder to install this antenna? The only channel I really need is Fox channel 44 for 49ers, other than that anything is just a bonus. Here is the channel layout for my area http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9900857d6721b8

Looks as if I will need to get an amplifier. Has anyone had any success here in Santa Rosa or is it a lost cause?
Edited by g-sixty - 7/28/12 at 12:11am

g-sixty,

Please rerun your report using your exact address (it won't show) and repost. Your current report is zip code level and is likely too inaccurate.

I live in Santa Rosa on the flats just below Larkfield and close to the new hospital going up.
I'm looking at the OTA reception of ch44 using an old all channel antenna in the attic and am getting very good reception, 85 to 95 on a 0 to 100 scale with my system.
I do have an amplifier Channel Master 7777.
Around 8AM and foggy here at the moment.

so the new sub on kron 4.2 is live

it looks similar to past wx subs, except, for right now anyway, one big difference, instead of the main video window being wx radar, its a cam view from above the bay bridge toll plaza

personally the only use i have for that is to be reminded i dont live in the bay area any more! hopefully its a help to some of you all up there, it sure as heck beats just and sd image of 4.1.

edit: now ive checked it out a bit, its only displaying SF weather so no use to us at all down this way, but chalk that up to a work in progress for now

I hope that they do a better job than what was offered by them before.

It appeared then that only one person could control it and that person was off a lot and took very long vacations.

SHF

the wikipedia page about mundofox is listing KCNS as the launch affiliate for the fox's new spanish language network.

8/13 is the launch date, and MF is listed as being in RTVs current location of 38-1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MundoFox

I live over by coffee park. I get all the major netwoks, except kntv channel 11 nbc during the summer months. "now"
I use a cm4228 and a Y10-7-13. I use a booster but I also split the signal 4 ways.
For me, Fox comes in the strongest, and all the time.
Good luck.

Wanted to add that my stuff is mounted on the roof.
Edited by iitywygms - 7/30/12 at 10:16pm

For the information of those who haven't checked it out, the new KRON News-Weather-Traffic channel 4-2 is now in full operation with a variety of video clips, forecasts for all over the Bay Area, traffic status maps, etc. You might find it to be quite useful.

Larry
SF

strange signals for me today.
ktvu and kron are on the cliff, dropping in and out. Kpix, normally weak, is showing up real strong.
Opposite of what I usually get.

On Thursday at 4 pm I turned on KGO and it wasn't coming in. No station from Sutro was coming in. The only Bay Area station on the peninsula coming in was KNTV. That is exceptionally bad. Today at 4 pm KGO and KBCW were SNR 28 dB and every Sutro station that is possible for me to receive was coming in. Conditions have had extreme swings here recently.

Chuck

Hi,

Get ready for the monsoon coming your way. Yes it was called a monsoon on air today.

The HD radar forecast suggests thunder and lighting in your area coming up from the South.

The other weather story is not much variance in temperatures like we usually get in the spring.

I blame the last three summers being cool on the volcano that blew in Iceland a few years ago grounding lots of airplanes. But none of the weather people have ever said anything about the huge amount of ash put high up in the sky.

SHF

yeah down in arizona thats what they call the storms that move up from the gulf of california this time of year, basically same thing as whats hitting the sierra 2mro, "monsoons". the closet the bay area gets to a monsoon is when gorilla monsoon would come to call wrestling shows at the cow palace.

Does this mean that after losing My Family a couple of weeks ago to a Spanish Network the same is also happeneing to RTV? Seems like speaking english is becoming a thing of the past if you want to watch OTA TV. I was against a spectrum grab but if this continues I'm changing my opinion if this is the trend of OTA TV. I have nothing against these networks if there added on as additional sub channels but not if there coming in to replace english speaking networks.

Hi,

I am sorry, I do not understand.

RTV is on KCNS RF 39 PSIP 38.1 AFAIK.

I checked the listing and "Soupy Sales" is listed for right now and the on air program sure seems to match. (YES, English)

http://www.myretrotv.com/affiliates.html

I do not see "My Family" listed as a RTV show on their website. It may have been dropped.

http://www.myretrotv.com/shows.html

But then "Soupy Sales" is not listed as a RTV show, the contract may allow local programming.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Retro Television Network affiliates may pre-empt some programming.

SHF

My Family TV was the classic tv station on KAXT 1.2 that was bumped last week for the new tele-romantica spanish network and a new spanish network is scheduled to be on KCNS 38.1 starting August 13th in place of RTV

Hi,

KAXT, they will show anything that pays them money I suspect. They have changed so often that I have not tried to keep up.

Now, RTV is another matter, I see that three stations have left them, but nothing yet about KCNS.

http://www.myretrotv.com/affiliates.html

Perhaps something good will happen like ME TV.

When they were ~ 97 miles away, I ignored them.

When they moved to KOFY, I started recording "The Twilight Zone" but I now have seen all of that series perhaps.

I am still making my way through the original "Hawaii Five-0" and "Hogan's Heroes".

I watched "Da Vinci's Inquest" three + times on RTV so I will not miss them.

It's all about the money, we English speakers can afford to pay for cable, Dish...

The minorities watch OTA much more I suspect. Wait, we English speakers will be the minority soon!

SHF