San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 295

38.1 is now 38.5 and appears to be in 4x3 format! No stretch-o-vision!

Hi,

And it is RTV!

SHF

Edited by SFischer1 - 8/17/12 at 10:02am

Signals are normal from all of the San Bruno Mountain stations here, so I don't have any idea why you've lost them. I'm located between the Castro and Noe Valley.

Larry
SF

Hi,


My reception of:

Continues to be the same, I may have NO reliable reception of these two stations from San Bruno.

I am ~ 32 Miles from San Bruno and ~ 36 miles from Sutro.

SHF

Hi,

Any idea if they are using an antenna cut for RF 7? And it's type.

KGO RF 7 to KDTV 36.42 miles.

KGO RF 7 to me 36.38 miles. I am using a CM4228HD UHF antenna. (Plus two amps.)

It is rock solid for me, but then I do not watch KGO RF 7 24/7/365 like the translator.

The path is over water but I was told that KEMO RF 32 (96.7 miles) and KRCB RF 23 (75.1 miles) are possible due to being over water. They do disappear at times.

Is microwave a bigger problem over water?

See AVS for map. Click on Image for larger picture.



SHF

---

Original Message

---

From: "Larry Kenney"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] KGO Translator Channel 35

I haven't heard anything further from KGO's engineer since they said they were going to add a microwave link from the studio to the translator site.

Larry

- - -

On Aug 16, 2012, at 11:22 PM, Mike Sabin wrote:

> Uh-oh, KGO-35 bad again tonight (16 Aug). Turned it on 11:10PM to watch news, video/audio breaking up intermittenly, became unwatchable by 11:20PM. Signal strong and stable.
>
> Any progress since message below? I'm hoping it's squared away before college football starts in September, but doesn't look like it will be.
>
> mike
>
> At 6/22/2012 12:10 AM, you wrote:
>> I received the following information from the KGO Transmitter Engineer who said to please pass it on the members of the SF HD Yahoo Group and SF OTA Thread on the AVS Forum.
>>
>> One more option they're exploring is to install a microwave system between the KGO studios and Mt. Allison. Then they can send an ASI stream directly to Allison to drive the exciters and use the receive antenna as a backup source. The microwave is not a perfect solution though, because the path is at the maximum fade margin and it is over water, and it does experience signal fading occasionally.

Rich, the KGO Engineer, said they were using an antenna cut for channel 7, but he didn't indicate what brand. Their big problem is the high level of RF from all the transmitters there at Mt. Allison. The channel 7 signal has to over power the RF level at the site.

The antenna seems to be working really well. When KGO goes off the air, like it does once a month for transmitter and remote calibration, it's been reported that the translator has picked up KRCR on channel 7 from Redding.

I don't know how much of a problem there is for the microwave, but he said some fading can be expected on the microwave link over water.

Interesting, because KTSF is 858 kilowatts ERP while KTFL is only 15 kw ERP. You must have something blocking your line of site to Mt. San Bruno or you have multipath affecting the KTSF signal. How well do you receive KNTV, KKPX and KMMC from there? You've indicated that you can receive both KRCB and KEMO, which are quite a distance from you, so that clearly shows that distance is not necessarily a good indicator of whether or not you'll get a station. Terrain is the major factor in most cases.

Larry
Edited by Larry Kenney - 8/17/12 at 4:42pm

Hi,

I have tall trees in the path and when they got wet early last fall KPIX and KQED disappeared for a while until the leaves dried out.

KNTV is solid, KKPX was an immediate problem such that I sometimes use my old UHF antenna in my attic in the partial faraday cage looking due North trying to get KTNC (Failing lately). KKPX is just fine right now.

I sometimes see KMMC, but not right now.

I do not test the airwaves like you do so. I have so much DTV to watch and other things that I only look when requested.

SHF

Trees can be a problem no matter how close you are to the transmitters. They can cause severe multipath issues like at my cousin's house in San Leandro.

Years ago I knew someone who lived in an apartment in San Jose and there was a community antenna. The complex was surrounded by huge fir trees and one of the UHF stations (KOFY I think) had multipath like crazy. The ghosting changed all the time. Other stations were fine.

There really is no solution to trees except to get the antenna away from them.

I don't see any reason why water should be any different than flat land. Large scale inversions will develop over flat land or water which can be a problem. Inversions in hilly areas are more localized.

Larry - Remember all the problems KOVR had getting a fade-free microwave link from Sacramento to Walnut Grove? No large bodies of water there.

Chuck

I sure do. If I remember right they had to install receivers at different heights on the tower and set it up so that it automatically chose the strongest incoming signal.

Larry

Anyone heard anything recently about the KCSM sale? The latest information I've been able to find was from April and said they'd narrowed it down to two prospective buyers.


Patty

Hi,

 

It has gone silent.

 

I suspect that they are waiting for the FCC to approve of the sale. The time frame suggested for the announcement was next month (September 2012).

 

http://sfppc.blogspot.com/2012/04/two-finalists-in-bidding-for-kcsm.html

 

http://sanmateo.patch.com/articles/kcsm-tv-yet-to-be-sold

 

http://www.sanmatean.com/kcsm-yet-to-be-sold-1.2849941

 

I have looked at the web page where the winner will be announced and it has not changed.

 

http://sharepoint.smccd.edu/SiteDirectory/generalservices/Lists/Bid%20Announcements/Current.aspx

 

SHF

They haven't filed anything with the FCC, so that can't be the cause of the delay.

- Trip

Hi,

 

Interesting. Please keep watch for us.

 

Perhaps then KCSM likes the top bidder and the top bidder needs to generate a more detailed plan. (Or / and the second bidder.)

 

They clearly have stated that they do not want to start the process over quoting problems others have had.

 

I also wonder if the bidder(s) need to raise more money and if KCSM is getting some additional grants to keep going.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

KCSM also turned down bids from two Bay Area broadcasters:
 

• • KAXT LLC, which operates low-power Channel 22 in San Francisco, which broadcasts a Spanish-language Christian TV network, and

• • KMTP-TV, operator of low-power Channel 32 in San Francisco, which airs multilingual, ethic programming. It’s offices are in Palo Alto.

 

Just like Jay and Dave, I would have liked KMTP to win so I could have more fun bashing them.

 

KAXT is a commericial station and not qualified to bid, what were they thinking.

 

SHF

 

P.S. Larry, please do not jump on me for 22, the Palo Alto Daily Post got it wrong! And I do not see spanish in their lineup on your page. Mt. Allison is in San Francisco?

Edited by SFischer1 - 8/20/12 at 6:51pm

KAXT channel 22 analog did broadcast Spanish-language Christian TV, but they transmitted from the hills in southeast San Jose, not San Francisco. The station went off the air when KAXT digital, virtual channel 1, came on the air on channel 42 from Mt. Allison.

Larry

Is anyone else having problems receiving KTVU, virtual channel 2 (Fox affiliate)?

I am in north San Jose (near Alviso) and for the last week or so, I don't see any video/audio on this channel. Everything else is coming in just fine.

I tried two different tuners into my HTPC, but no difference.

Quote:

Hi,

 

Can you vertify which RF channel you are receiving KTVU on?

 

KTVU RF 44 is on Sutro tower.

 

KTVU RF 48 is on  Monument Pk in a different direction.

 

Their PSIP data is the same.

 

 

 

2.1	44.3	KTVU	FOX	Oakland	Sutro Tower	1000	1680	H - M
2.2	44.4		LATV
2.1	48.3	KTVU	FOX	San Jose	Monument Pk	3.5	2100	H - L
2.2	48.4		LATV

 

H - Transmits in High Definition (HDTV)
L - Low Power or Translator Station
M - Transmits Mobile DTV, or will be soon
 

What are your HTPC Tuners and do they display the actual RF channels used?

 

 

 

 

 

SHF

Edited by SFischer1 - 8/23/12 at 11:19am

I am not sure which of the two RF channels I was picking up. I will dig deeper into Windows Media Center and see if this info is available.

Hi,

 

Read this message and the rest of this thread.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HDTV-in-SFbay/message/29894

 

KGO RF 7 and RF 35 are also a problem for some people. PSIP 7 in both cases. There are 2+ more to come.

 

Depending on what direction your UHF antenna is pointing, both should be good for you, both RF 44 and RF 48  for KTVU.

 

SHF

Thank you very much! That did the trick. I disabled 48.3 and voila! 44.3 is coming in crystal clear. I will have to keep this in mind if I run into problems with KGO.

Hi,

 

I am going to copy the information here so all can see.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HDTV-in-SFbay/message/29887

 

Re: KGO loss

Posted By: jguilhamet  Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:01 am

 

A little San Francisco Television history:

On this very day, Monday, August 27th, 1962, KGO-TV in San Francisco unveiled a brand new emblem for its station. No one would know that four months later that same year, this very logo would eventually be one of the very first television cosmetic standardizations. In December of that year, sister-stations in Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit & in New York would wound up using the same design made by a San Francisco-native and design consultant G. Dean Smith.

Happy Fiftieth Anniversary, Circle 7 Logo!

Cool factoid.

are you sure about this
it might have been designed by kgo art director Nick Hamil. he also designed KTVU circle 2.
milt

Page 72 of the August 27, 1962 issue of Broadcasting Magazine, and it even shows the same logo design with the name G. Dean Smith. I don't know who Nick Hamil is but its nice to know that he made another iconic logo in the Bay. I'm from the Chi and It was appropriate to post it here since Mr. G. Dean Smith (he passed away 25 years ago) was from the Bay Area. The other stations didn't climb aboard (KABC, WBKB (now WLS), WXYZ & WABC) until December '62. Hope the link helps.

I am seeing some summer signal surges now. 11 to 1 pm from south of the bay area.

KSBW- 8 15 to 40
KCBA- 13 2 to 6 (No Lock)

meter scale of 0 to 100

While tuning around last night I noticed that the Azteca network is now in HD. KEMO in Santa Rosa now has Azteca in HD on 50.1 and Azteca SD on 50.2.

Larry
SF

Some time back, I dumped DirecTV and put up an antenna. I bought a Tivo Premiere to go with it. Remarkably, I get great reception up here in my area of Windsor. HDTV never looked better.

Fast forward to about a month ago when KNTV 11.1 suddenly started showing "To Be Announced" in the Tivo channel guide. I could tune to that channel and watch whatever is being shown, but could not use the Tivo to schedule shows, etc. I finally decided to redo the guided set up on my Tivo today. After scanning my channels....poof! no more KNTV 11.1 . It's nowhere to be seen.

I can't find an NBC affiliate anywhere in my OTA lineup now. Has it moved? I'm relatively ignorant to the finer points of all of this, so excuse if I'm missing anything obvious.

Thanks,

Doug

I've noticed a lot of signal strength changes, too, especially with the stations from the Walnut Grove transmitter site. You can actually watch the signal levels change right before your eyes with signals going from below the cliff edge to as high as 26 dB SNR in a matter of 5 to 10 minutes time and then back down again. The two VHF stations (6 - RF 9 and 10 - RF 10) act completely different from the UHF stations that I get (3 - RF 35, 13 - RF 25, 31 - RF 21 and 58 - RF 46). While the VHF's are up, the UHF's can be down or vice versa, or they can all be up or down. It's fun to watch.

I don't see these drastic changes on the stations from up north (22, 50 and 68), Mt. Diablo (42 and 52) or the South Bay (1, 14, 36, 48 and 54) though, although KAXT 1 will drop below the cliff edge occasionally. I've never received any signal from KSBW or KCBA 13 up here. KSBW is wiped out by KDTS 52 (RF 8) here. There is no signal at all on 13.

Last night I had a nice strong signal from KCRA 3 - RF 35 up to 22 dB for a while. Normally KGO's translator on 35 keeps KCRA's signal below the cliff edge. I noticed that 3.2 is now carrying MeTV.

Larry
SF

I suspect the same changing signal levels that I mention above is what's caused KNTV to drop below the cliff edge for you. If you normally get it, you'll get it back once signal levels return to normal. (You might have to scan again to get it.) During these weather changes where the temperature goes up and down, there are atmospheric changes that cause the signals to increase and decrease. Inversions can cause drastic changes in signal levels at times.

Larry
SF