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San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 316

post #9451 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

Just for jeepers, have you isolated out your 4 way splitter in the garage? Simply remove the input, attach a barrel connector and send it to one your tuner cards. It's worth a try...

No I have not and I will at the same time I change the balun at the vhf antenna.
I just removed the amp from the chain. All the signal strengths went down to between 50 and 60 percent according to the hdhr. Signal quality seems the same and I did not lose any channels so I am keeping it this way for a while. There was no improvement to abc7.
post #9452 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post


I believe this is limited to VHF. KTVU, CBS, and all other uhf signals from Sutro are around 70-75 percent with a signal quality of around 85. (hdhr numbers).


I didn't realize until just now that you're not receiving ANYTHING on VHF. Under normal conditions you receive one station. This is not a case of a problem with just one station but more likely all of VHF.

Maybe there's a problem with the connections on the VHF side. Maybe the CM7778 has a problem with VHF. Try bypassing the preamp and the splitter as a test and run VHF with no preamp to one DTV receiver.

Chuck
post #9453 of 10422
Chuck.
I did remove the preamp. The strength went down but the signal quality is the same.
NBC has nver been good for me. But ABC normally comes in.
After removing the amp nothing changed except the signal strength went down.
post #9454 of 10422
here is a scan from the hdhr
KGO is currently coming in, barely.

SCANNING: 803000000 (us-bcast:69)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 797000000 (us-bcast:68)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 791000000 (us-bcast:67)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 785000000 (us-bcast:66)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 779000000 (us-bcast:65)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 773000000 (us-bcast:64)
LOCK: none (ss=30 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 767000000 (us-bcast:63)
LOCK: none (ss=36 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 761000000 (us-bcast:62)
LOCK: none (ss=36 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 755000000 (us-bcast:61)
LOCK: none (ss=68 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 749000000 (us-bcast:60)
LOCK: none (ss=80 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 743000000 (us-bcast:59)
LOCK: none (ss=62 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 737000000 (us-bcast:58)
LOCK: none (ss=68 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 731000000 (us-bcast:57)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 725000000 (us-bcast:56)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 719000000 (us-bcast:55)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 713000000 (us-bcast:54)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 707000000 (us-bcast:53)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 701000000 (us-bcast:52)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 695000000 (us-bcast:51)
LOCK: none (ss=18 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 689000000 (us-bcast:50)
LOCK: none (ss=24 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 683000000 (us-bcast:49)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=76 snq=77 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0001
PROGRAM 1: 49.1 K49KS-1
PROGRAM 2: 49.2 K49KS-2
PROGRAM 3: 49.3 K49KS-3
PROGRAM 4: 49.4 K49KS-4
SCANNING: 677000000 (us-bcast:48)
LOCK: none (ss=19 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 671000000 (us-bcast:47)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 665000000 (us-bcast:46)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 659000000 (us-bcast:45)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=60 snq=80 seq=100)
TSID: 0x018B
PROGRAM 1: 44.1 KBCW-DT
SCANNING: 653000000 (us-bcast:44)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=60 snq=80 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0141
PROGRAM 3: 2.1 KTVU-HD
PROGRAM 4: 2.2 KTVU-SD
SCANNING: 647000000 (us-bcast:43)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=56 snq=72 seq=100)
TSID: 0x019B
PROGRAM 3: 60.1 KCSM
PROGRAM 4: 60.2 KCSMMHz
PROGRAM 5: 60.3 Jazz-TV
PROGRAM 6: 60.4 JazTEST (no data)
SCANNING: 641000000 (us-bcast:42)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 635000000 (us-bcast:41)
LOCK: none (ss=36 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 629000000 (us-bcast:40)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 623000000 (us-bcast:39)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=59 snq=77 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0189
PROGRAM 1: 38.1 MundoFo
PROGRAM 2: 38.2 Sino TV
PROGRAM 3: 38.3 KTNC
PROGRAM 4: 38.4 Tokyo
PROGRAM 5: 38.5 NTD
SCANNING: 617000000 (us-bcast:38)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=61 snq=79 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0179
PROGRAM 3: 4.2 KRON-SD
PROGRAM 4: 4.1 KRON-HD
PROGRAM 5: 4.3 KRONSD2
SCANNING: 611000000 (us-bcast:37)
LOCK: none (ss=33 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 605000000 (us-bcast:36)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 599000000 (us-bcast:35)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 593000000 (us-bcast:34)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=45 snq=57 seq=100)
TSID: 0x01B1
PROGRAM 1: 66.1 KFSF-HD
PROGRAM 2: 66.2 KFSFDT2
PROGRAM 3: 66.3 KFSFDT3
SCANNING: 587000000 (us-bcast:33)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=51 snq=68 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0187
PROGRAM 3: 32.1 KMTP-DT
PROGRAM 4: 32.2 WorldCh
PROGRAM 5: 32.4 WTV
PROGRAM 6: 32.5 NTD
PROGRAM 7: 32.6 KPOP
SCANNING: 581000000 (us-bcast:32)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=77 snq=83 seq=100)
TSID: 0x01A7
PROGRAM 3: 50.1 KEMO-HD
PROGRAM 4: 50.2 KEMO-SD
SCANNING: 575000000 (us-bcast:31)
LOCK: none (ss=24 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 569000000 (us-bcast:30)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=68 snq=95 seq=100)
TSID: 0x017F
PROGRAM 1: 9.1 KQED-HD
PROGRAM 2: 9.2 KQED+
PROGRAM 3: 9.3 WORLD
PROGRAM 8: 0 (control)
PROGRAM 9: 0 (control)
SCANNING: 563000000 (us-bcast:29)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=62 snq=86 seq=100)
TSID: 0x017B
PROGRAM 1: 5.1 KPIX-DT
SCANNING: 557000000 (us-bcast:28)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=42 snq=44 seq=100)
TSID: 0x17A9
PROGRAM 1: 28.1 KDTV-CD
PROGRAM 2: 28.2 KFSF-DT
SCANNING: 551000000 (us-bcast:27)
LOCK: none (ss=36 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 545000000 (us-bcast:26)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 539000000 (us-bcast:25)
LOCK: none (ss=59 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 533000000 (us-bcast:24)
LOCK: none (ss=21 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=95 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0103
PROGRAM 1: 22.1 KRCB-DT
PROGRAM 2: 22.2 KRCB-C
PROGRAM 3: 22.3 KRCB-FM
SCANNING: 521000000 (us-bcast:22)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 515000000 (us-bcast:21)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 509000000 (us-bcast:20)
LOCK: none (ss=33 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 503000000 (us-bcast:19)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=59 snq=75 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0183
PROGRAM 3: 20.1 KOFY-HD
PROGRAM 5: 20.2 MeTV
SCANNING: 497000000 (us-bcast:18)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 491000000 (us-bcast:17)
LOCK: none (ss=26 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 485000000 (us-bcast:16)
LOCK: none (ss=19 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 479000000 (us-bcast:15)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 473000000 (us-bcast:14)
LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 213000000 (us-bcast:13)
LOCK: none (ss=26 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 207000000 (us-bcast:12)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=57 snq=45 seq=100)
TSID: 0x018D
PROGRAM 3: 11.1 KNTV HD
PROGRAM 4: 11.2 COZI-TV
SCANNING: 201000000 (us-bcast:11)
LOCK: none (ss=32 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 195000000 (us-bcast:10)
LOCK: none (ss=36 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 189000000 (us-bcast:9)
LOCK: none (ss=36 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 183000000 (us-bcast:8)
LOCK: none (ss=39 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 177000000 (us-bcast:7)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=67 snq=51 seq=100)
TSID: 0x017D
PROGRAM 3: 7.1 KGO-HD
PROGRAM 4: 7.2 LIVWELL
PROGRAM 5: 7.3 LWSD
SCANNING: 85000000 (us-bcast:6)
LOCK: none (ss=55 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 79000000 (us-bcast:5)
LOCK: none (ss=52 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 69000000 (us-bcast:4)
LOCK: none (ss=41 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 63000000 (us-bcast:3)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 57000000 (us-bcast:2)
LOCK: none (ss=35 snq=0 seq=0)
post #9455 of 10422
Okay. But since you only receive one station, you don't know if the problem is just with KGO or a complete VHF failure.

As I said before, you don't have the tools to properly troubleshoot the problem. I think we're going in circles now.

We could keep making suggestions and you could try them and never make any progress. Once you've tried the obvious things shotgunning the problem is a waste of time.

To me at least, if your HDHR is telling you that the signal strength is good but the signal can' be decoded, then that's a multipath problem. Without more information I can't make any other informed guess.

Chuck

Edit: While I was typing this message you posted your HDHR scan. Looks to me that KGO is following KNTV in both SS and SNQ as you would expect. I wouldn't say that KGO was strong. I thought you said KGO was reading 80 when it wouldn't decode? Based on that scan it looks like there is nothing wrong at all except that the signals are weak. I assume that if KNTV is decoding then that is good conditions for you. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that under less favorable conditions that neither station would be strong enough to decode.
Edited by Calaveras - 8/17/13 at 8:33pm
post #9456 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I thought you said KGO was reading 80 when it wouldn't decode? Based on that scan it looks like there is nothing wrong at all except that the signals are weak. I assume that if KNTV is decoding then that is good conditions for you. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that under less favorable conditions that neither station would be strong enough to decode.

Hi Chuck.
I did say it would not decode at 80ss. But that was when the amplifier was being used. The last hdhr scan was done without the amplifier.

As of this morning, I still have KGO coming in. So whats changed in the last day? I removed the amp but I do not believe that is the reason KGO is now coming in.
I agree that I am running in circles here. I will put the high low filter in when it arrives and see if that improves anything.
If that fails to produce any real results, I will blame mother nature.
post #9457 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post


As of this morning, I still have KGO coming in. So whats changed in the last day? I removed the amp but I do not believe that is the reason KGO is now coming in.
I agree that I am running in circles here. I will put the high low filter in when it arrives and see if that improves anything.
If that fails to produce any real results, I will blame mother nature.

When you removed the amp, you reduced the strength of the FM signals so they cause less interference. I hope the high low filter works. If it does, you can put the amp back in.
post #9458 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

When you removed the amp, you reduced the strength of the FM signals so they cause less interference. I hope the high low filter works. If it does, you can put the amp back in.

There's another reason why I don't think FM interference is the issue. His VHF antenna is high VHF only. The response to the FM band is way down, probably 20 dB or more. That alone is a pretty good filter. Even his strongest stations on the FM Fool list aren't that strong with a non-resonant antenna.

In the old days of low/high VHF the antennas were pretty good for FM and interference was more likely. The nature of the antennas today make it much less likely.

Larry's situation in San Francisco is very different from Santa Rosa. San Francisco is RF saturated. Santa Rosa is more like a rural location. Years ago I used to talk to a ham in the city and he had all sorts of strange mixing problems that I never had at my location in Fremont. It amazes me that Larry is able to receive anything outside of the city with Sutro Tower in his backyard.

Chuck
post #9459 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

There's another reason why I don't think FM interference is the issue. His VHF antenna is high VHF only. The response to the FM band is way down, probably 20 dB or more. That alone is a pretty good filter. Even his strongest stations on the FM Fool list aren't that strong with a non-resonant antenna.

Not sure about down 20 dB or more in the FM band. At the hdtvprimer website, it shows the FM band gain for the YA-1713 is about 1 to 2 dBi which I wouldn't say is way down.
post #9460 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Not sure about down 20 dB or more in the FM band. At the hdtvprimer website, it shows the FM band gain for the YA-1713 is about 1 to 2 dBi which I wouldn't say is way down.

Look at the Net Gain, the graph that actually counts. The YA-1713 isn't even on the chart in FM. That means it's more than 17 dB down from the response on high VHF. The problem with the Raw Gain graph is that it doesn't take into account mis-match loss which is huge with non-resonant antennas.

I looked at his FM Fool list and I couldn't find any harmonics, 3rd or 5th intermod products from his strongest stations that landed in channel 7. I think FM interference is pretty much off the table.

Chuck
Edited by Calaveras - 8/18/13 at 12:22pm
post #9461 of 10422
OOOOHHH, it's Calaveras vs. retiredengineer. I'm betting with Calaveras who understands what we have going on in this region for over 40 years.....
post #9462 of 10422
Anyone believe that a different antenna would be beneficial? From my research, my current y10-7-13 is my best bet for VHF.
post #9463 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

Anyone believe that a different antenna would be beneficial? From my research, my current y10-7-13 is my best bet for VHF.

Hi,

 

I do not think that a different antenna would be beneficial.

 

(I wonder if someone has a script to capture the HDHR stats for a single station for about 2 minutes and then produce a graph.)

 

I have watched the live HDHR stats and the video using VLC Media Player on the same screen many times and if the Signal Quality is >  ~ 50 % then the Symbol Quality is at 100% (KEMO SS = 77%, SNQ = 77%, SEQ= 100%" produces a solid picture  at 7:58 PM.)

 

KTNC at 8:01 PM SS = 79%, SNQ = 50%, SEQ = 100% produces a solid picture.

 

I expect that if I watched for a long time the HDHR SNQ will drop below 50% and then SEQ would drop to 0% and the picture would chop up and freeze.

 

Edit: At ~ 9:40 PM I finally got a drop below SNQ = 49% for KTNC and SEQ went to 0 %, so 50% is the break point.

 

I have no good antenna pointed at KTNC which is why it is so hard for me to receive.

KEMO is ~ 97 miles away from me.

 

Quote:

SCANNING: 207000000 (us-bcast:12)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=57 snq=45 seq=100)
TSID: 0x018D
PROGRAM 3: 11.1 KNTV HD
PROGRAM 4: 11.2 COZI-TV

 

SCANNING: 177000000 (us-bcast:7)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=67 snq=51 seq=100)
TSID: 0x017D
PROGRAM 3: 7.1 KGO-HD
PROGRAM 4: 7.2 LIVWELL
PROGRAM 5: 7.3 LWSD

Rotating the antenna may improve the SNQ.

 

If you need help getting both the HDHR Config GUI for live stats and VLC Media Player on the same desktop, send me a PM.

 

As my HDHR is on a wireless router, I could take one of my laptops to the roof to watch the SNQ change as the antenna is turned 360 degrees.

 

EDIT: Be warned, a good direction may be bad minutes, hours, days later. Multipath is a hard enemy.

 

SHF

 

 

Note: A digital camera is required to see what I see, the way video is done a print screen cannot capture it.


Edited by SFischer1 - 8/18/13 at 9:50pm
post #9464 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

CH 28, KFTL-CD, had all spanish programming listed in its programming schedule on ZAP2IT, and an internet search shows that "TVC Latino" has replaced that old boy who had his 15 minutes of fame by claiming the end of the world was nigh every so often.

i cant receive that channel without losing other stations so any info above is unverified.

When I tuned by channel 28 last night they had Latino ZUUM on 28.1, Home Shopping on 28.2, an infomercial on 28.10, and, something new, Country ZUUM on 28.15. I'll have to check back a few times to see if that's permanent before I change my channel lists.

Larry
post #9465 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

Anyone believe that a different antenna would be beneficial? From my research, my current y10-7-13 is my best bet for VHF.
That's the VHF antenna I use for receiving KVIE and KXTV from Walnut Grove. I agree... it's your best bet for VHF.

Larry
post #9466 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

It amazes me that Larry is able to receive anything outside of the city with Sutro Tower in his backyard.
Chuck

I guess I'm lucky! Surprisingly, with the VHF yagi and CM4228 antennas pointed NE toward Walnut Grove, the signals from Sutro off the back corner of the antennas are pretty poor. A few of them, like 9, 38 and 44, drop below the cliff edge with the antenna pointed NE.

Larry
post #9467 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

When I tuned by channel 28 last night they had Latino ZUUM on 28.1, Home Shopping on 28.2, an infomercial on 28.10, and, something new, Country ZUUM on 28.15. I'll have to check back a few times to see if that's permanent before I change my channel lists.

Larry

Do you mean ZUUS?

- Trip
post #9468 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

KTNC at 8:01 PM SS = 79%, SNQ = 50%, SEQ = 100% produces a solid picture.

I expect that if I watched for a long time the HDHR SNQ will drop below 50% and then SEQ would drop to 0% and the picture would chop up and freeze.

Edit: At ~ 9:40 PM I finally got a drop below SNQ = 49% for KTNC and SEQ went to 0 %, so 50% is the break point.


In a post that Trip made here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/7920#post_21145759

and in other places I read that an HDHR reading of SNQ=50% was about the minimum. But in iitywygms scan above both KDTV-CD and KNTV show SNQs of 44% and 45% with no errors. That must be about as low as possible.

Chuck
post #9469 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

I guess I'm lucky! Surprisingly, with the VHF yagi and CM4228 antennas pointed NE toward Walnut Grove, the signals from Sutro off the back corner of the antennas are pretty poor. A few of them, like 9, 38 and 44, drop below the cliff edge with the antenna pointed NE.

Larry

This goes to show you that even with your incredibly strong signals you can find a null in the antennas that allow the reflections to degrade the SNR enough to prevent them from decoding. I used to see the same thing when I lived in Fremont with the analog signals. Channel 36 was unwatchable with the antenna pointed to SF even though I could see the tower from my front yard. smile.gif

Chuck
post #9470 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

Anyone believe that a different antenna would be beneficial? From my research, my current y10-7-13 is my best bet for VHF.

That antenna isn't really all that great but there's nothing else available commercially that is better. There's no VHF equivalent of the 91XG.

If you were really serious about getting a better signal on KGO and KNTV you could stack antennas. I don't think 2 would make a big enough difference to solve the problem but 4 would be significant. I ran an experiment here once with 4 x 91XGs and that does make a noticeable improvement.

The y10-7-13 is 300 ohms so it's really easy to combine 4 of them with no lossy ferrite baluns.

Chuck
post #9471 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post


In a post that Trip made here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/7920#post_21145759

and in other places I read that an HDHR reading of SNQ=50% was about the minimum. But in iitywygms scan above both KDTV-CD and KNTV show SNQs of 44% and 45% with no errors. That must be about as low as possible.

Chuck,

 

Hi,

 

I saw SNQ <= 49% and SEQ = 100% AND SEQ = 0%, SNQ flashing red and green.

 

The decode is unstable at SNQ <= 49%, the full channel scan gives only one sample so the SEQ = 100% must be considered suspect and not be considered to produce a picture with  no errors. frown.gif YMMV

 

Once you get SNQ <= 49% it starts to jump all over and takes a few seconds to settle down to either a clear bad or good decode. 

 

SHF

post #9472 of 10422
If I were outside of town I would stack 4 antennas. But being in the neighbourhood that I am, 4 antennas might raise some eyebrows.
As of this morning KGO is still coming in. The sq is up to a jaw dropping 54 now. lol
I really appreciate all the help everyone. I enjoy crystal clear hdtv and the money saved.
If I can offer any other info please let me know. I will post back once I get the high/low filter in.
post #9473 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Do you mean ZUUS?

- Trip
I see ZUUS Latino on 28-1 and both 28-3
ZUUS country is on 28-15
28-10 shows infomercial with audio problems.
No QVC on 65-5 nothing on 65-5
only HSN 28-2
post #9474 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Do you mean ZUUS?
- Trip

Sorry... I checked again and, yes, it's ZUUS, not ZUUM. Latino on 28-1, Country on 28-15.
post #9475 of 10422
Thanks!

- Trip
post #9476 of 10422
Hi everybody. First post so go easy on me if what I'm asking is dumb. I just completed an OTA antenna installation at my home in the Evergreen area of San Jose and have a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer for me.

First, when I scan for channels my converter box shows two "copies" of each of 2.x (Fox KTVU), 7.x (ABC KGO) and 11.x (NBC KNTV) including all their sub-channels, so for example my program guide will show 11.1, 11.1, 11.2, 11.2, 11.3, 11.3... One version of each channel has maybe 10 points higher signal strength than the other. Is this normal?

Second, if a channel's signal strength is showing as low (like below 40%) but I'm not experiencing pixelation or a blank screen am I still getting the full quality picture or might there be some picture degredation that's not as obvious as pixelation? I ask because I'm wondering whether I should do something like install a preamp to boost the signal. Virtually all my channels come in at around 30-45% according to my converter box's signal meter. I believe I'm receiving all the bay area channels broadcast from north of my location.

Third, I first hooked up the antenna to just one TV without a splitter and tne channels mostly registered 45% signal strength. After inserting the splitter to attach the second TV I expected the signal strength to drop by 50% but it still registered pretty close to the same according to my converter box. Is that possible or is the signal reading bogus?

Thanks for the help!

Here's my setup:

- Channel Master 4228HD antenna, roof mounted about 30' high pointed at 300 degrees with a clear line of sight straight ahead and the east foothills running parallel off to the right side. TVfool shows most channels being at 296 degrees with a few at 321 degrees.
- About a 130 foot run of RG6 coax to my main TV as follows: 40 feet of RG6 from the antenna to a female-female f-type barrel connector connected to another 40 feet of RG6 to a f-f grounding block connector to another 5 feet of RG6 to my wiring closet and then another 45 feet of RG6 to the TV. I also have a second TV connected via a 1-2 splitter at the wiring closet with 45 feet of RG6 to the second TV. So turns out both TVs have the same cable length of about 130' to the antenna.
- TV1 - 2001 Sony KP-61HS1D "HD Ready" rear projection TV with no digital tuner connected through a 2004 Samsung SIR-TS360 Direct TV box I'm just using as an OTA tuner. (don't laugh, I'm eyeballing a Samsung UN65F8000 to replace this ancient setup as soon as I save enough money).
- TV2 - 2005 Sony KDE-42XS955 plasma TV with built in HDTV tuner.

Mod: Please feel free to move this to the appropriate forum if this isn't the right one.
post #9477 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BATom View Post

Hi everybody. First post so go easy on me if what I'm asking is dumb. I just completed an OTA antenna installation at my home in the Evergreen area of San Jose and have a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer for me.

First, when I scan for channels my converter box shows two "copies" of each of 2.x (Fox KTVU), 7.x (ABC KGO) and 11.x (NBC KNTV) including all their sub-channels, so for example my program guide will show 11.1, 11.1, 11.2, 11.2, 11.3, 11.3... One version of each channel has maybe 10 points higher signal strength than the other. Is this normal?


Welcome. You're in the right place!

This is not normal behavior but I don't know what might be causing it. I assume your Sony with the built-in tuner is not acting like this.

Quote:
Second, if a channel's signal strength is showing as low (like below 40%) but I'm not experiencing pixelation or a blank screen am I still getting the full quality picture or might there be some picture degredation that's not as obvious as pixelation? I ask because I'm wondering whether I should do something like install a preamp to boost the signal. Virtually all my channels come in at around 30-45% according to my converter box's signal meter. I believe I'm receiving all the bay area channels broadcast from north of my location.

If you're not experiencing pixelization then you're getting the best picture you can get. It's all or nothing.

Quote:
Third, I first hooked up the antenna to just one TV without a splitter and tne channels mostly registered 45% signal strength. After inserting the splitter to attach the second TV I expected the signal strength to drop by 50% but it still registered pretty close to the same according to my converter box. Is that possible or is the signal reading bogus?

The meter is not a signal strength meter (despite what it may say) but a Signal Quality meter which is actually reading signal-to-noise ratio, not real signal strength. I would expect some drop in the reading but not half.

Quote:
Here's my setup:

- Channel Master 4228HD antenna, roof mounted about 30' high pointed at 300 degrees with a clear line of sight straight ahead and the east foothills running parallel off to the right side. TVfool shows most channels being at 296 degrees with a few at 321 degrees.
- About a 130 foot run of RG6 coax to my main TV as follows: 40 feet of RG6 from the antenna to a female-female f-type barrel connector connected to another 40 feet of RG6 to a f-f grounding block connector to another 5 feet of RG6 to my wiring closet and then another 45 feet of RG6 to the TV. I also have a second TV connected via a 1-2 splitter at the wiring closet with 45 feet of RG6 to the second TV. So turns out both TVs have the same cable length of about 130' to the antenna.
- TV1 - 2001 Sony KP-61HS1D "HD Ready" rear projection TV with no digital tuner connected through a 2004 Samsung SIR-TS360 Direct TV box I'm just using as an OTA tuner. (don't laugh, I'm eyeballing a Samsung UN65F8000 to replace this ancient setup as soon as I save enough money).
- TV2 - 2005 Sony KDE-42XS955 plasma TV with built in HDTV tuner.

Those tuners are fairly old and probably not the latest generation. If you get a new TV the reception should be equal to or better than what you're experiencing now. You might consider a distribution amp instead of a passive splitter. It doesn't sound like you're in need of a mast mounted preamp.

Chuck
post #9478 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BATom View Post

...

First, when I scan for channels my converter box shows two "copies" of each of 2.x (Fox KTVU), 7.x (ABC KGO) and 11.x (NBC KNTV) including all their sub-channels, so for example my program guide will show 11.1, 11.1, 11.2, 11.2, 11.3, 11.3... One version of each channel has maybe 10 points higher signal strength than the other. Is this normal?

...

Hi,

 

Two copies for 2.x and 7.x perhaps are just fine as KTVU uses both RF 44 and RF 48 and KGO uses both RF 7 and RF 35. They map to the same virtual channel but are in different locations.

 

Duplicates for 11.x perhaps not. It has not been reported on the air but Larry's list shows:

 

 

"11.1 KOTR MyNetTV Santa Cruz Loma Prieta Mt." which you are close to.

 

http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

 

Try disconnecting your antenna and doing a full scan which should result in no channels.

 

Then after reconnecting your antenna do a full scan.

 

SHF

 

post #9479 of 10422
Thanks for the advice on my antenna/converter setup guys. I'm glad to hear there's no loss if there's no pixelation. I was worried maybe there was an error correction function that might toss frames here and there in the case of a poor signal. I'll also try the rescan to see if it rids me of the duplicate channels.
post #9480 of 10422
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

Hi,

Duplicates for 11.x perhaps not. It has not been reported on the air but Larry's list shows:
"11.1 KOTR MyNetTV Santa Cruz Loma Prieta Mt." which you are close to.
SHF
I just scanned RF 11. Nothing Digital using that channel. (From here)

Nothing seen on VHF below
2,3,4,5,6,11
Signal found on VHF
7,8,9,10,12,13

Using a old hot - boom yagi.
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