or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › 3 new scalers from Lumagen!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

3 new scalers from Lumagen!! - Page 2  

post #31 of 1598
WOW, this is great. Finally, an affordable solution that does it all. Can anybody recommend a dealer for the New York City area? If not, happy to purchase direct.
post #32 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by pciav
WOW, this is great. Finally, an affordable solution that does it all. Can anybody recommend a dealer for the New York City area? If not, happy to purchase direct.
Just send an email to sales@lumagen.com and we can reply with the info.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #33 of 1598
WOW, Seems we're FINALLY getting Scaler that does both:
1. promises everything we need,
2. company's past giving confidence it will become reality soon!

Seems my quest for scaler is coming to an end!

Cheers Jim & Co, the moment per pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing gets implemented I'm your customer.

Pedro
post #34 of 1598
Jim, thanks for the prompt response. Sounds like SDI dvd player is a better option over HDMI player. Infact I already have SDI modded Panasonic RP-82 from PMS video. Hopefully it will be compatible with Lumagen units with SDI. My pj is Infocus 7200.
post #35 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by vinodk
Jim, thanks for the prompt response. Sounds like SDI dvd player is a better option over HDMI player. Infact I already have SDI modded Panasonic RP-82 from PMS video. Hopefully it will be compatible with Lumagen units with SDI. My pj is Infocus 7200.
We are using the same SDI input chip as in the VisionPro SDI. As far as I know there have been no compatibiliy issues with our SDI input and any DVD player's SDI output.

----

As an aside... This came up a while ago, and it seems a good time to address it. There was an incorrect rumor going around about our SDI input. Let me correct this rumor by saying that:

Lumagen SDI inputs correctly pass blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white.

(one could screw up the calibration so this wasn't the case, and we can't say whether any given DVD's SDI output actually generates these).

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #36 of 1598
Jim,

I have another question. Will the sync polarity be selectable or fixed?
post #37 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by oferlaor
doody,

regarding HDMI. I would have to say I completely disagree with you on that point. Almost everything uses DVI now. Putting an HDMI connector would require pretty much everyone to buy an expensive connector. Once HDMI really kicks in, they can easily switch the connector or send units out with an HDMI converter.

Doesn't HDMI allow for longer cable lengths? If so, having a native HDMI port would be beneficial.

That said, the VisionPro HDP seems to be a perfect unit for me.
post #38 of 1598
as it concerns hdmi, ofer and i can agree to disagree. the product pipeline of stuff being released in the next 10 months or so is LOADED with devices with HDMI connectors. it's been a pent-up-demand at the manufacturers now - they resisted supporting SDI and DVI 'cuz they weren't "consumer" formats. now that HDMI is said and done, they're all going to cram it into their shipping products. even already the local stores have stuff with HDMI connectors.

everybody though is correct that it's just a matter of a cable adapter for the video portion, so it's not like it's a big deal IMO.

and you can do longer DVI runs with optical-transceiver cables.

doody.
post #39 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by Stephan
Jim,

I have another question. Will the sync polarity be selectable or fixed?
The DVI and analog output sync polarity can be programmed.

Generally you would program a single output sync polarity, since there is a single optimal output rate for the display. However, each memory can be independently programmed if yo uneed more than one.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #40 of 1598
This is very exciting indeed. I think I just found my scaler for my Ayre D1X with SDI output.

Jim- the SDI output on my Ayre is labeled "SMPTE 259M 4:2:2 Serial Digital Video" and is supposed to strictly adhere to the correct specs for this output. Do you see any compatablility issues with the SDI inputs as implemented in the Vision Pro HDP?

Is there a way to "sign up" now so we can be on a list when the units are finally released?
post #41 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by jin kim
Doesn't HDMI allow for longer cable lengths? If so, having a native HDMI port would be beneficial.
The electrical spec for the signals is the same. So one doesn't inherently have an advantage over the other.

Of course, if a manufacturer put active cable equalization in their HDMI receiver chip and not their DVI receiver chip, then it could support longer cables. I don't know if this is the case though.

However, for our DVI output, if this is the case, using a DVI to HDMI cable for our output and driving the HDMI input would give us the advantage of this presumed better receiver. And we don't need long cables for the sources driving our scaler in a typical application.

So, I contend our choice of using DVI for this generation is a good one -- biased I know I am as I chose it.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #42 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by Gladiator
This is very exciting indeed. I think I just found my scaler for my Ayre D1X with SDI output.

Jim- the SDI output on my Ayre is labeled "SMPTE 259M 4:2:2 Serial Digital Video" and is supposed to strictly adhere to the correct specs for this output. Do you see any compatablility issues with the SDI inputs as implemented in the Vision Pro HDP?

Is there a way to "sign up" now so we can be on a list when the units are finally released?
We have been selling SDI options for our VisionPro for 5 months now and there are no known compatibility issues. We use one of the two defacto standard SDI input chips (the Gennum GS7005), which has a very good reputation for compatibility and follows the ANSI/SMPTE 259M-C standard (which is what the DVD player's output really is -- this is a nit of course, and we only say "SDI" on our case, so I point this out only in the interest of being overly pedantic following the SMPTE 259M spec nomenclature).

To get on the wait list, please email sales@lumagen.com.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #43 of 1598
Incase anyone doesn't know, Jim is the founder and head of Lumagen. He and Pat Harkin are two of the nicest and most knowledgeable people you will ever talk to in this business.
post #44 of 1598
HDMI cable equalization is a cooperative affair, I believe. Unless you have HDMI at both ends of the connection, you don't get the cable length benefit.
post #45 of 1598
Will there be any audio delay adjustment to address lip sync issues?

mooneycj
post #46 of 1598
Lip sync issues are usually a problem with poor deinterlacers. It takes some time to pick up the video cadence, creating video frame storing, hence delay. I know it was fixed in the original Lumagen models, so I don't suspect it would be a problem here.

Bill
post #47 of 1598
It isn't a problem with poor deinterlacers. The more complex the deinterlacing processing, the longer it takes. Audio processing is much simpler and is very quick. Proper video design can reduce the processing to the minimum required for the degree of processing. Audio is not routed through the Lumagen, so any delay in it above that of the audio processor cannot be compensated. As video processing becomes more complex, especially when deinterlacing 1080i, look for compensating circuits to appear in audio processors. Will the processing undertaken by the Lumagen require a time that will cause lip sync issues. That is the question. The present generation of Lumagen do not require a processing time that causes noticeable lip sync issues.
post #48 of 1598
Thread Starter 
Bill,

Just the opposite. The more processing you do on video, the more your lipsync will suffer. Terranex (which I think most agree is the king of the hill regarding processing) uses up 7 fields worth of video delay = 116ms for NTSC!!!
post #49 of 1598
Quote:
The more complex the deinterlacing processing, the longer it takes. Audio processing is much simpler and is very quick. Proper video design can reduce the processing to the minimum required for the degree of processing. Audio is not routed through the Lumagen, so any delay in it above that of the audio processor cannot be compensated.
I think you made my point. If you receive poorly edited video material, it can become difficult for poor deinterlacers to sync up (video wise). When they do, the audio will be far ahead. The quality of the deinterlacer has a big factor on when the video syncs with audio. Run tests via AVIA Pro and several DVD players (old and new) and you will see what I am talking about.

Bill
post #50 of 1598
Jim,

The Vision Pro HDP looks very interesting

I have 2 questions.

1)Will the DVI input accept 480i ? My Hughes HTL-HD set-top
puts out this resolution by doubling up the lines and expects
the scaler to throw out the redundant data.

2)How fast is the image aquisition ? I would like to channel
surf with a low delay (2 seconds or less) going from a SD channel
to a HD channel.

3)Does deinterlacing @1080i include motion compensation?
post #51 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by mark haflich
...Will the processing undertaken by the Lumagen require a time that will cause lip sync issues. That is the question. The present generation of Lumagen do not require a processing time that causes noticeable lip sync issues.
The video processing will take the same time or less than we do in our first generation products. Genlock is also improved, so it should be activated in most systems. As with the first generation, genlock minimizes processing delay (reduction of about one field time) and fixes it at a constant delay.

Even without genlock, we do not get lipsync complaints on the first generation. With genlock, it is even less of a concern.

Delay is longer for PAL since it runs at 50 Hertz rather than 59.94, some displays will have their own internal video delays, and some people may be sensitive enough to see even a small lip-sync delay. So, while I think this is a minor issue, I am not saying it doesn't exist at all.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #52 of 1598
Tong:
1) We plan to accept 480i on the DVI input. But I must admit to not knowing that the Hughes operates 480i as 480p with redundant lines. We should be able to accomodate this, but the user may have to select this unusual mode, and it may not be in the initial release.

2) we should be able to detect the change of input resolution and reaquire at the new input resolution in a fraction of a second.

3) Initially HD deinterlacing is pull-down reconstruction. Later we plan to add per-pixel as a user loadable update.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
post #53 of 1598
Jim:

Thanks for the very quick reply and the useful information. I checked
the output of the Hughes @480i and it looks like I may be mistaken.

The monitor reported an input frequency of 16khz.

The genlock feature should help get the lipsync issue under control.
The problem I have is that the lipsync delay required for DVD is not
the same as that on the satellite receiver. On mine the delay is
slightly difrent depending on whether I am watching satelite or
analog cable.
post #54 of 1598
Jim,

Just want to clarify/confirm a few queries on the new scalers:-

- copy-protected HD signals (say, from Denon 5900, Pioneer 969 ...) will be scaled/de-interlaced and be output on analog component/RGB output, right?
- what DAC will the scalers be using? ADV7310?
- forgive my ignorance, what is ED? SD is 480i/p and 576i/p; HD is 720p and 1080i, right?
- both analog and digital outputs active simultaneously? if so, same output resolution on both outputs?
- since the new scalers can accept 480i (and presumably 576i) on DVI, is there any need or apparent advantage to go for SDI?
- any back panel photos/diagrams of the scalers?

:)

AK
post #55 of 1598
Those new Lumagen sounds great !

Any European distributors (France for eg.) planned ?
post #56 of 1598
Quote:
Originally posted by AK47
- copy-protected HD signals (say, from Denon 5900, Pioneer 969 ...) will be scaled/de-interlaced and be output on analog component/RGB output, right?
If true, that would certainly drive the sale of these boxes, and break a few distribution contracts re: HDCP at the same time.

Of course, we'll have to wait for Lumagen to respond, but I don't think the above is gonna happen.
post #57 of 1598
yubyub,

Actually, I'm puzzled why this shouldn't be the case.

Anyone care to explain this stupid so-called "copy protection" thing? Anyone care to tell me why it is bad to do this:-

- Denon 5900 720p DVI -> Lumagen Vision HDP 1366x768 DVI -> 1366x768 Plasma

while it is good to do this:-

- Denon 5900 720p DVI -> 1366x768 plasma?

What's the diff if Vision HDP's DVI out is also HDCP encoded?

And another case:-

- Samsung DVD-HD1000 720p component -> 1366x768 plasma w/o DVI input
- Denon 5900 720p DVI -> 1366x768 plasma w/o DVI input?

To me, it's simply a money-sucking plot. DVD is SD regardless of how high and well you scale the content to. If anyone were to copy DVDs, DVD Decryptor is best. Is there any home video recorder which can conveniently record a 720p/1080i signal (Sony Blu-ray can but you'll have to use i-link)? And 480p on a HDCP-compliant DVI out is unprotected?

Come on, give us a break, would the movie studios; DVD Forum .... We only want decent PQ and we'll be paying >USD1.6k for it.

:(

AK
post #58 of 1598
To get an HDCP license, you have to agree that any DVI/HDCP feed can only be outputted on DVI/HDCP.

Accepting DVI/HDCP and outputting analog defeats completely the copy protection scheme.

Yes, it's stupid, especially if the source is a DVD that can be ripped off with any PC, but Lumagen will have no choice if they want to be able to support HDCP.
post #59 of 1598
Quote:
yubyub,

Actually, I'm puzzled why this shouldn't be the case.

Anyone care to explain this stupid so-called "copy protection" thing?
There are lots of threads on what HDCP is - search around.

The basic idea is that studios want to close the "analog hole" i.e. the fact that once a signal is in the analog domain, it can be captured and reproduced (such as what a pirate does). Right now, there is some image degradation when this is done - with 720p outputs, however, getting a rather pristine 480i copy wouldn't be that hard at all.

To complicate the matter, such a "hole" in the digital world would allow a person (or a pirate) to create an exact duplicate of the original.

This scares the studios silly.

HDCP is the specification and means by which encryption of the digital signal takes place. Essentially, if a device is sending an HDCP encrypted signal to a non-HDCP enabled device, the signal received will be garbage.

In order to sign up for and obtain a key for HDCP, you have to sign a form of contract which states, among other things, that you will never allow an HDCP encrypted signal to be sent as a higher resolution analog signal (IIRC things like 480i, s-video and composite are okay, but 720p or higher res RGB is not).

The Lumagen folks can probably add much more detail/correct any errors in my statement.
post #60 of 1598
Analogue in = analogue or digital out
digital in (with no copy protection flagged on source)= digital and analogue out
digital in (with copy protection flag on software)= no analogue output and digital output has HDCP enabled

Gordon
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Processors
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › 3 new scalers from Lumagen!!