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San Diego, CA - HDTV - Page 22

post #631 of 1092
Ch 69 KSWB FOX analog nightlight messages only now
post #632 of 1092
Ch 25 (10.1) KGTV-DT ABC digital down now
post #633 of 1092
Ch 10 (10.1) KGTV-DT ABC digital up now
post #634 of 1092
Ch 8 (8.1) KFMB-DT CBS digital up now
post #635 of 1092
sweet , I should get digital channel 8 again
post #636 of 1092
TWC, Dish Network or DirecTV.

Which offers the best signal quality in San Diego? I am new to HDTV. My current provider is Dish Network for standard TV and I am not impressed by it.

I appreciate any feedback.
post #637 of 1092
Are there any station engineers who can comment on the steps taken in the switchovers at KGTV and KFMB?

Both stations switched their existing VHF channels from analog to digital and shut down their temporary UHF digital transmitters. How much of this hardware was in common and how much was independent?

I assume they had only one VHF antenna on each channel, so after the analog transmitter was off it had to be moved to the permanent digital transmitter. (I can't imagine the digital transmitter would reuse the existing analog VHF power amplifier because the digital power level is so much lower. Also the linearity requirements would be different.)

And what about the two digital transmitters? Were they completely independent, or was a single exciter moved from the temporary to the permanent channel?
post #638 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy View Post

TWC, Dish Network or DirecTV.

Which offers the best signal quality in San Diego? I am new to HDTV. My current provider is Dish Network for standard TV and I am not impressed by it.

I appreciate any feedback.

Gugy,

Here are your choices in order of number and quality of HD channels:

DirecTV
Time Warner Cable
Dish Network
AT&T U-verse

DirecTV converts its HD programming from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, resulting in significant bandwidth savings but some potential (slight) artifacts from re-encoding. They offer more HD programming than any of the other multichannel providers in San Diego, but programming can be kind of pricey.

Time Warner offers a fair number of HD channels in MPEG-2. Many channels now are on switched digital video, so viewers with an HD Tivo or other Cablecard device cannot view these SDV channels until TWC gets around to releasing a tuning adapter.

Dish Network offers a number of HD channels, but bit-strips the channels, resulting in lower quality HD programming than DirecTV. Some folks argue that SD programming looks better on Dish Network than on DirecTV. I don't watch much non-HD programming, so I can't say for sure.

AT&T offers an IPTV solution that is incompatible with HD Tivos and other Cablecard devices. AT&T applies fairly heavy MPEG-4 compression to fit two HD channels or 4 SD channels in the limited bandwidth available over copper telephone lines. I think the average bandwidth for an HD channel is under 6 Mbps. AT&T plans on offering 3 HD channels at a time by cranking up the compression rather than by increasing bandwidth.

You may find that you get the best picture quality with an over the air tuner on your HDTV. Channels 8 and 10 broadcast their digital signals from Mt Soledad in La Jolla on hi band VHF. You should get a fine signal with a pair of rabbit ears extended horizontally to 31" and pointed at a window facing the broadcast towers. If anything, you may need to add an attenuator to the line to prevent excessive signal overpowering your digital TV receiver. The rest of the digital TV stations in San Diego are on UHF on Mt Miguel to the southeast of you or in Tijuana to the south. You can check www.tvfool.com for expected over the air reception at your house.

I have an HD Tivo as my DVR and get excellent results from over the air reception. DirecTV and Dish Network DVRs both enjoy generally good reputations. Time Warner's new DVR software is quite horrid, and AT&T's DVR has a limited hard drive and problems with audio over HDMI. Neither Time Warner nor AT&T offer an acceptable DVR in my opinion, though you can use an HD Tivo for some of Time Warner's HD channels (none of the switched digital video channels yet).

Hope this helps.
post #639 of 1092
What are your thoughts on COX Cable?
post #640 of 1092
TWC's PQ for local HD stations appears SAME as via OTA as evidenced by
eye and bit rate measurements....rather than HD-Lite on Dish and DirecTV.

TWC has many dozens of HD programs (mostly movies) available for $3-5 ea
plus dozens of free HD programs that only recently appeared and seem
to be growing in number weekly as the central servers issue new ones.
Eventually they'll be hundreds if not thousands of HD available On-Demand,
something the Sat systems will be hard pressed to even come close....

I've used both Dish and TWC DVRs for hours on end without problems.
I could live with either (finally!!), although TWC still has some missing
search features (still under development) and crashes every other week or so.

Every time I switch over from my primary TWC HD-DVR (MDM S/W) to
my second, new HD-DVR (OCAP S/W), the slow response is frustrating,
but is not much worse than cable boxes from 5+ years back....can't wait
for the next gen boxes to come out later this year.....

Huge, external hard drives work with TWC, COX, Dish and DirecTV DVRs
to increase storage capacity to something reasonable, just in case you
ever go on vacation for more than a couple days. Unfortunately, TWC
broke the external HDD I/F in a recent software update to OCAP S/W,
so we're hoping the next release fixes it again. Older DVR (MDN) is okay.

TWC/COX have a WORKING Firewire interface to D-VCRs for unlimited,
long term storage of HD programs, including encrypted & Premiums.
No longer avail. for Sats.
post #641 of 1092
All of the positive characteristics that holl_ands attributes to Time Warner Cable are accurate. You can take most of the comments that holl_ands and I ascribed to TWC and apply them equally to Cox cable (at least in the San Diego market). Pricing and exact channel lineup may vary, but you generally will get a decent number of HD channels, no excess bit stripping, but rather lackluster DVRs through either Cox or TWC.

Currently there are a number of HD stations on both local cable companies that are switched digital video only. This means that you cannot view these HD stations that you are paying for on an HD Tivo or other Cablecard device. Both Cox and TWC have plans at the corporate level to support tuning adapter devices to solve this problem and have rolled out tuning adapters in other parts of the country.

I would put Cox on pretty much equal footing with TWC in San Diego county. They both definitely are better than U-Verse for picture quality and likely are better than Dish Network. Both work with Cablecard devices to a somewhat limited extent. Pricing and quality of service will of course influence your ultimate decision for where to get HD service.

The only area where I would disagree with holl_ands is in his characterization of the local HD channels on DirecTV as HD-lite. You can compare the over the air local HD stations with DirecTV's MPEG-4 re-encoded signals. I don't think they drop that much in quality. You will have to take a look for yourself.
post #642 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboG View Post

Currently there are a number of HD stations on both local cable companies that are switched digital video only.

As far as I know, Cox is not using switched digital video in this market yet. I don't believe that they're using it in very many markets nationwide, though they no doubt will be using it eventually. Certainly someone would have complained about it in hdtv.forsandiego.com and there's been nothing yet.

At the end of 2007, Cox completed an upgrade of their network from 750 MHz capacity to 1 GHz. That upgrade gave them some breathing room--not all of that bandwidth can be tuned by currently deployed equipment, but if they used all of the part that can be tuned just for video, they could add 80 new channels at maximum bit rates. They've added a bunch since that upgrade, but not nearly 80 .

Right now, Cox offers a number of channels that I'd love to have on TWC: AMC HD, Spike HD, Cartoon HD, MTV HD (they also have MTV's Palladia product), Comedy HD and NHL HD. They lack HDNet, HDNet Movies and MGM HD, which TWC does offer, in an extra cost, 4 channel "HD VIP Pack".
post #643 of 1092
Question: Did XETV/6 indeed do as recently promised, and flip analog 6 to a simulcast of one of Televisa's Mexican networks?
post #644 of 1092
I ran some tests on the San Diego stations on my way down the coast today. Attached are the results (by virtual channel).

I also tested reception inside my parents' downtown condo, where most UHF channels are possible to receive. KGTV/25 was previously the most reliable, but now it is in the 0-6dB range on 10. This was not a surprise after what happened when KFMB moved to 7 a while back.

At least KFMB has improved significantly over the low power channel 7 facility. If I get some time tomorrow, I will check if the cardioid array has been turned yet. I hope they file a DX app so we can finally see what it is exactly.

The Silver Sensor worked for VHF at Del Mar Heights, but was unacceptable at all the other locations.

 

san-diego.txt 0.494140625k . file
post #645 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Question: Did XETV/6 indeed do as recently promised, and flip analog 6 to a simulcast of one of Televisa's Mexican networks?

No, the video is the same as ch 23 (6.1) XETV-DT but there is no audio right now on the analog channel.
post #646 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2631 View Post

No, the video is the same as ch 23 (6.1) XETV-DT but there is no audio right now on the analog channel.

I was getting audio on analog 6 (identified as San Diego 6 - The CW) this weekend. I tuned it in on my car radio (not sure why I never tried it before). The sound volume was considerably lower, but I believe that is normal for TV/FM vs. FM radio sound.
post #647 of 1092
It was a great afternoon to make another trip to Mt. Soledad. Attached are a few pics. It was very clear, at least below the cloud layer.

KFMB has not rotated the old channel 7 array as yet. I suppose they are working on converting a back-up transmitter to ATSC 8 before they rotate the antenna.

I also took a picture of what should be Mt. Miguel and perhaps Mt. San Antonio, but I'm not as familiar with those two mountains. If anyone can confirm, I would appreciate it.
LL
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post #648 of 1092
I ran a plot to Mt. San Antonio and it should be over the Coronado Bridge from Mt. Soledad. The attached is a picture I took in that direction.
LL
post #649 of 1092
I live pretty close to where the 125 and 8 intersect and since last week I seem to have lost channel 10. I used to get it strong and clear DTV, now nothing. I know there was some tweaking because of the switchover last week. Should that have jacked my reception?
post #650 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by cayqel View Post

I live pretty close to where the 125 and 8 intersect and since last week I seem to have lost channel 10. I used to get it strong and clear DTV, now nothing. I know there was some tweaking because of the switchover last week. Should that have jacked my reception?

One major "tweak" was that it moved from UHF 25 to VHF 10 (their original allocation). You may need an antenna with better VHF reception or you might just need to repeat your channel scan.

There's lots of chatter about this at hdtv.forsandiego.com, in the "General over-the-air (OTA)" and "KGTV" subforums.
post #651 of 1092
Cool. I'll pull out the rabbit ears and run another scan.
post #652 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

I was getting audio on analog 6 (identified as San Diego 6 - The CW) this weekend. I tuned it in on my car radio (not sure why I never tried it before). The sound volume was considerably lower, but I believe that is normal for TV/FM vs. FM radio sound.

There are reports elsewhere that XETV put up a Spanish-language network on analog 6. Maybe they changed their minds again.

I wish someone could straighten this out.
post #653 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

There are reports elsewhere that XETV put up a Spanish-language network on analog 6. Maybe they changed their minds again.

I wish someone could straighten this out.

Gary Stigall, Chief Engineer at XETV, made an announcement in hdtv.forsandiego.com that they planned to carry analog CW on VHF 6 until June, when they'd switch to Televisa on that channel (continuing digital CW on UHF 23). I can't find that announcement now, or I'd post a link to it, but I clearly recall reading it. I think that might have been a change of their originally announced plans, which they're quite free to change again .

There's an answer about the analog channel in their FAQ which makes it sound as if they'll be carrying analog CW indefinitely.
post #654 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboG View Post

Gugy,

Here are your choices in order of number and quality of HD channels:

DirecTV
Time Warner Cable
Dish Network
AT&T U-verse

JimboG,

Thank you very much.

I just had TWC here to install a HD cable and for my surprise the quality was awful. Almost like I was watching standard channel quality. I told him that is unacceptable since I spent so much money on my HDTV display. He agreed that for some odd reason my reception was bad.

I guess now I am in between DirecTV and Dish Network, my current subscriber for standard. I might give a shot on DirecTV. We'll see.
post #655 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Gary Stigall, Chief Engineer at XETV, made an announcement in hdtv.forsandiego.com that they planned to carry analog CW on VHF 6 until June, when they'd switch to Televisa on that channel (continuing digital CW on UHF 23). I can't find that announcement now, or I'd post a link to it, but I clearly recall reading it. I think that might have been a change of their originally announced plans, which they're quite free to change again .

I'd seen the original announcement that made it sound like the analog 6 change would happen on 2/17, with XETV "signing off" the U.S.-based feed by switching to Televisa's network.

They apparently changed their mind right on the 17th, but I can't find a single reference that explains the details. I also can't find anything that says they planned to do that change in June.

Anyway, I was also trying to confirm that XETV analog 6 is still the U.S. CW affiliate feed now.
post #656 of 1092
From the XETV engineering director in response to my message on hdtv.forsandiego.com:

Quote:
No, channel 6 has not now, nor have ever, run a Televisa network, and channel 6 will not shutdown. We don't have a date for any changes to our current line-up. End of discussion on that topic.

OK, I guess I touched a nerve.
post #657 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy View Post

JimboG,

Thank you very much.

I just had TWC here to install a HD cable and for my surprise the quality was awful. Almost like I was watching standard channel quality. I told him that is unacceptable since I spent so much money on my HDTV display. He agreed that for some odd reason my reception was bad.

I guess now I am in between DirecTV and Dish Network, my current subscriber for standard. I might give a shot on DirecTV. We'll see.

If you aren't feeling the WOW, maybe you AREN'T watching HD....yet....

A checklist:
1. HD is on the 700-series channels...and a few 600-series.
2. HD is only transmitted at selected times on most network channels.
3. Must connect via HDMI, DVI or (Red/Green/Blue) Component Video cables.
4. In Cable box "SETTINGS", cursor right to "DISPLAY" and ensure
"ASPECT RATIO = 16x9" and "OUTPUT RESOLUTION" are set as follows:

If 720p/768p native resolution DTV: enable (dot) only for 720p.
If 1080i/1080p native resolution DTV: enable (dots) both 720p and 1080i.

These settings minimize the glitches when changing between channels with
different resolution settings, while allowing max update rate with 720p programs.

====================================
If you use a direct connection to a DTV or PC Card/Stick with Clear QAM tuner, then
make sure the set actually has a Clear QAM tuner and that you have
enabled a DIGITAL CABLE scan, which is different than a DIGITAL OTA scan.

BTW: All CableCARD DTVs should be able to tune Clear QAM channels, even without
a CableCARD inserted...but channel mapping may look strange without the CableCARD.

If you are having trouble figuring this out, let us know your DTV model number....
post #658 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

If you aren't feeling the WOW, maybe you AREN'T watching HD....yet....

A checklist:
1. HD is on the 700-series channels...and a few 600-series.
2. HD is only transmitted at selected times on most network channels.
3. Must connect via HDMI, DVI or (Red/Green/Blue) Component Video cables.
4. In Cable box "SETTINGS", cursor right to "DISPLAY" and ensure
"ASPECT RATIO = 16x9" and "OUTPUT RESOLUTION" are set as follows:

If 720p/768p native resolution DTV: enable (dot) only for 720p.
If 1080i/1080p native resolution DTV: enable (dots) both 720p and 1080i.

These settings minimize the glitches when changing between channels with
different resolution settings, while allowing max update rate with 720p programs.

====================================
If you use a direct connection to a DTV or PC Card/Stick with Clear QAM tuner, then
make sure the set actually has a Clear QAM tuner and that you have
enabled a DIGITAL CABLE scan, which is different than a DIGITAL OTA scan.

BTW: All CableCARD DTVs should be able to tune Clear QAM channels, even without
a CableCARD inserted...but channel mapping may look strange without the CableCARD.

If you are having trouble figuring this out, let us know your DTV model number....

Hi holl_ands,
I had the installer here and he showed me the HD channels. We watched specially ESPNHD. Like I said, the image looked very blured and like standard def. I could see the ESPNHD logo on the sides of the screen, that was around 10am.
He connected the the receiver (Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR 8300.) via component cable, since I have not yet purchased an HDMI.
I have a brand new Pioneer 151 60" that is an awesome display, but for sure the WOW factor was not there.
I declined the service on the spot. The technician, said he could not figure out the issue. He agreed that the image did not look good. He said sometimes some locations are like that. For me he had no clue of what he was doing.

Do you think I should give TWC another try or renew my Dish Network and upgrade to their HD package? This is my first time HDTV experience. For sure TWC offers a much better $ deal with the whole bundle thing.
Thanks for the reply
post #659 of 1092
Although the tech recognized there was a problem, sounds like he didn't know
what he was doing....you should ask for a different tech if you're still interested....

I don't buy his argument that "some locations are like that".....
The digital MPEG2 signal is the SAME---everywhere....

Of course, you might have been watching one of ESPN's fuzzy programs.
Some of them are pretty good...and some are waiting on new camera upgrades.

Sports networks (ESPN, ABC, FOX) employ 720p, which has update rate
advantages in following rapid movement, but are never going to display
sharp static pictures, as is possible on 1080i channels.

I also wouldn't rule out the Component Video cables...and maybe a defect in your new HDTV....
post #660 of 1092
I requested another visit from them.
It seems the guy did not set up the receiver properly.
The ESPN show, I think it was Sportscenter or something like that. I notice all the graphics and numbers were blured and not sharp at all and the image washed out.

Hopefully I will have better luck next time, if not I will upgrade my Dish Network.
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