The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 445

Thanks Paris, that's some good info he has there. That Italian job looks like it would grab a lot of wet snow and feezing rain, but 13 dB might be worth it...

On db gain alot of these antennas seem to be about the same. Some companies use dbi and some use dbd gain. The important number i look at is dbd or if a company uses dbi, subtract 2 to 2.5, to actually get dbd gain. That 13 db could be dbi. The interesting thing about that antenna is it is not as long. This antenna seems popular in Europe and Austrailia. In some forums it seems that antenna has been comparred to some of the yagi 10 element 7-13's. On performance. The Winegard and Antennacraft seem to be good solid performers and hopefully we will learn more on the Fracarro.

In the 4nec2 model for the YA-1713, removing the front four elements reduced
the overall Gain by a couple dB, but didn't appear to cause any problems.

DISCLAIMER: YA-1713 Log-Yagi antenna model showed Raw/Net Gain Loss problems
on Ch13, that were clearly NOT present in actual on-air results:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/wgya1713

That's what I was hoping for. Both the Winegard and the Antennacraft 7-13 Yagis have a short and long version, with the only differnce being double the length and double the gain (about 3 dB). And I've seen where some guys have added more front boom sections to 9032s and 91XGs to create 20dB mega-Yagis.
I couldn't decide whether to go with a short or a long, but I'll get the long one and switch out for winter. We get a lot of warm, wet snow here that sticks to everything, and I can see the damage on plenty of 2-69 antennas in my hood (all of them less than 13 years old).

Yeah, but the long vhf-low elements are the ones that suffer most, with having up to 2 - 54" unsupported 3/8" tubes. The shorter vhf-hi only antennas are naturally much more structurally sound.

Actually, on my CM1221 vee boom, I had 4 - 54" unsupported 3/8" tubes. I made supports for the ends from cut down pieces of vinyl siding J corners.

Hi jspENC, this pic reminded me that I'd PM'd you months ago about the mods you'd made to your 8800... Nice to see it in action.

I've touted the 8800 over the years, but at my DXing location, I'd found that my older steel 4228 worked better even on the lower channels (where the 8800 usually excels), which surprised me. Well, the 4228 needed some maintenance, so I took it down and put the 8800 back up. But before I did it, I bent the feed lines back as you described. To my surprise, last night the 8800 worked great, even better than the 4228. And last night was definitely not a tropo kind of night.

Now I'm thinking of covering the entire backstop with wire screen to see if that helps the 8800 on the upper channels. If I make it wide enough, it might even get usable upper VHF like the 4228 is known to do.

Anyway, the 8800 gets overlooked, but it's really a fine antenna, particularly if your problem channels are under channel 30.

Cool. If you decide to cover the whole back, let us know. I've got plenty of screen still, and would use it if it helps.

I would also be interested to know how the poster above makes out if he decides to take off the feed line and use baluns instead.

I have a 4400, and I was thinking of picking up another one (they're so cheap) and trying a two-balun join, but ganging them vertically. So I'd also be interested in how well it works to ditch the mismatched feedline.
I think the 8800's big draw is the weight. All of the other 8-bays are almost twice as heavy.

Thanks. Can you zoom in on the feedpoint? I would be curious to see what that looks like as I think I'm missing parts for it.

However, I'm planning on removing the feedlines for separate baluns on each 4 bay side. I will be curious to see if it gets better or worse, but it might be hard to tell since most of the lower UHF channels are quite subject to tropo.

Attached is a TV Fool plot, for an idea of what I'm dealing with. KUSI is impossible, thanks to KSCI. How LA and SD can share a low UHF, like 18 is beyond me. Well, not well at all! 8 is also a problem on my Y5-7-13. I can't get KFMB/8 or KFLA/8, due to co-channel, but I can get KGTV/10 ok on most nights.

Falcon_77:

I looked at the report for your city:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a543c3f64c6325

Your co-channel interference problem reminds me a lot of the problem that jchtrout1 is having:
tweaking an antenna
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1285681

You're lucky to get KGTV. The city report indicates that you would need an antenna with over 20 dB gain, which is in the category of antennas for EME (moon bounce communication).

What I have:

UHF Antenna:
http://www.channelmaster.com/HD_tele...tenna_s/44.htm

VHF Antenna:
http://www.channelmaster.com/HD_tele...tenna_s/49.htm

These are mounted on a rotor in my attic, connected to a CM7777 pre-amp. I am thinking about discarding the CM 3016, to free up some more space on the pipe and upgrading the 4221 to a CS4, DB8 or 8800. I do not have enough room for a 91XG.

Do you feel upgrading a 4221 to a CS4, DB8, or 8800 would be worth the trouble? Maybe doing a vertical stack.

Any ideas?

What's your TVFool results for your address?

Zipcode 48144

Your LOS stations are all over the compass. I would suggest as the cheapest solution, two home made reflector less GH antennas, with NARODs, (channel 5 should be strong enough to get with a paper clip) with two downleads to an an A-B switch at the TV. The CM7777 connected to the antenna with the weakest TV channels.

You should have two screws, two wing nuts, and two washers. One set of feeds goes on the back of the balun connector, and the other two on the front.

Good question..

I can (already) capture WKBD, with my existing 4221.

I was thinking of upgrading to another UHF antenna, and wanted to inquire if the cost and time to install a new UHF would really be a an "upgrade."

That is, replacing the CM 4221 with a CS4, DB8, or 8800.

Thank you...

You have channels in all 3 bands; low-VHF, high-VHF & UHF. All the antennas you listed as replacements are best used for UHF-only, and usually don't work well for high VHF and certainly not low VHF (WLMB). Your proposed antennas, while having a smaller footprint, would be a downgrade, IMO.

If you wanted to replace your two-antenna system with a single panel antenna, a Channel Master 4228HD would be a better choice than the antennas you listed. But you would likely lose WLMB in the low-VHF band, since the 4228 has no gain for chs 2 thru 6.

WLMB-DT is a religious broadcaster. As such, its appeal is somewhat limited to those to whom it ministers.

It would be more productive to identify the channels that are desired but are not being received using your current equipment.

It would appear the intention of PCTools is to free up more attic space with a one-antenna setup, to replace his current two-antenna arrangement. He never stated there are any channels of interest that he currently cannot receive with his existing system.

Thank you for all the comments. I apologize for not being clearer with my request.

I currently utilize a two antenna system (CM4221 4-bay above a CM3016 VHF with rotor) in an attic with limited real estate. The turning radius is limited to the length of the CM3016 VHF antenna (I believe it is half the 83.6" antenna length). I also have the constraint of an inverted "V" roof that decreases the turning diameter (about 85" at one foot above the floor). The farther you go up the mast pipe the less the turning radius. My goal is NOT to throw away the CM3016 VHF antenna UNLESS it makes sense to, but to install a better UHF antenna as the vast majority of digital stations watched are in the UHF band. The two local high VHF channels are about 15 miles away so I could possibly capture those stations (chan. 11, 13) on a UHF antenna?

Should I consider replacing the CM4221 4-bay for an 8-bay DB8? I am not convinced replacing the CM4221 with a ClearStream4 will yield improvement. Any thoughts?

I've fortified the unsupported 3/8" tubes on many antennas by taping lengths of 1/2" PVC to them. I do this when I use such antennas on highrise buildings as tall as 26 stories.

I'd keep the 3016 and move it off to the side with a fixed aim on heading 120° for the two local high-VHF stations. Then, I'd put in the 8-bay on the rotor. Combine the output of the two antennas with a UVSJ. Best of both worlds. A DB8 would likely pick up 11 and 13 that close in, but the 3016 would be a far better and more reliable choice to use for them.

Strictly comparing 8-bays, the 4228HD would be a better choice than the DB8.
http://www.antennahacks.com/Comparis...F_Shootout.htm

Same here. Unless you're rotating around for VHF channels in different directions, you can disconnect the VHF antenna and leave it pointed in one direction.

Edit, just looked at your TV fool and wow, you have stations all around you. They've got you surrounded!

If you do want to rotor around on VHF (maybe to get that WBJK?), you can always disconnect or cut off the UHF portion of the 3016 -- it is doing nothing anyway but taking up space in your setup because you already have a dedicated UHF antenna. That would cut the size of the antenna by 1/3 or more.

But PCTools, I guess I still don't quite understand your goal here. You say you get even WKBD with the 4221... Are you getting dropouts from time to time and are looking to eliminate those? Or are you looking to reach out and possibly get more channels? If you already have a solid lock on the channels you want, a "better" antenna won't really do anything for you. If your signals are weak from time to time or you just want to reach out and get as many channels as possible like a lot of us do, a higher-gain antenna would help you do that.

As for your one question, I don't think there's any doubt that a 4228 would get those 11 and 13 channels. The 8-bays with a wider screen will get some upper VHF (the DB8 is not one of those, though at the strength of your 11 and 13 it could still work). But heck, 11 and 13 are close enough that I suspect a wire dipole cut to the proper length would get them.

Great idea. Is there an 8-bay antenna that I can pass through a 26 X 27 attic access panel hole? I initially went with the CM4221 because the CM 8-bay was one piece that would not pass through the access panel hole. Perhaps CM makes an 8-bay now that breaks down into two components?

If you don't mind taking the time to assemble it in the attic, the Winegard 8800 will easily fit through small attic holes.

The CM4228HD will fit. You have 37 inches diagonally and the antenna is 41 x 33 inches. Folded, it is about an inch thick.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/foundationsquarecalc.html

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master...pr_product_top

One thing about attic installs- with the attenuation of the attic, you can't afford to give up any signal on the way from the antenna to the tuner. Make sure that ALL of your cable is factory-terminated RG-6 quad shield (and as little length as possible). Also keep the splitter and switch use to an absolute minumum, and make sure that all of the connections are rock-solid.
When I first started with OTA in my attic, I used the 13-yr-old RG-59 that was installed by the builder. Later I routed my own RG-6 instead, and it made a big difference in signal quality.

I am considering a Tin Lee AC7 to combine UHF channel 32 with another broadband UHF antenna. Before I spend the money, anyone have any experience with how this will affect UHF channel 30? I have a really strong signal on that channel now, will an AC7 for channel 32 degrade channel 30 significantly?