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The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 489

post #14641 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

+1 on the ANT751 suggestion. http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT751-Out...B5C/ref=sr_1_1

Indoor is impossible to predict, but worth a try if your TVFool results show strong (green) signals at your address. Try the budget RS rabbit ear/ loop. If unreliable, you probably have indoor electrical/electronics interference or building material issues blocking signal (stucco, foil insulation, etc.). If so, return the rabbit ear/loop antenna and get the ANT751.

If you have a Family Dollar nearby, they have a simple rabbit ear/loop combo antenna for only $10. I think Big Lots has them for $10 as well. Big Lots used to have a pretty decent little rabbit ear/loop antenna for only $4, but they don't anymore...
post #14642 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

If you have a Family Dollar nearby, they have a simple rabbit ear/loop combo antenna for only $10. I think Big Lots has them for $10 as well. Big Lots used to have a pretty decent little rabbit ear/loop antenna for only $4, but they don't anymore...

I would pay a little more and get the Radioshack version. Their budget rabbit ears/loop is built a bit better than similar designs and normally provides better reception results.
post #14643 of 16013
I totally agree with tylerSC.

The RS budget antenna is better designed (bigger loop, heavier gauge coax, etc.) than other antennas that look very similar. And based on personal experience and reports from other AVSForum members, when indoor reception is marginal, the RS budget nearly always works better.

And it's only $13 (or $10, when it sometimes goes on sale).
post #14644 of 16013
tylerSC writes:
> I would pay a little more and get the Radioshack version. Their budget
> rabbit ears/loop is built a bit better than similar designs and normally
> provides better reception results.

Wow! You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when
a Radioshack item is described as being better.
post #14645 of 16013
I'm no fan of RS. And I loathe going into their stores. But in this case, it is a better performing product than others that look very similar.
post #14646 of 16013
All my major network local stations (UHF only and LOS) are transmitting from the same direction (260 degs) about 15 miles from my home.

I will need to feed 3 TVs over RG6 (3GHz rated) with a splitter. The longest run being about 60ft. Was wondering which Yagi type antenna for the attic of my one story house would you recommend? Would a pre-amp be neccessary?

As an aside, I was considering the Winegard SquareShooter SS-2000, at about 6 ft above ground level, off a pole mounted satellite dish. But I don't expect to have any multi-path issues here which I understand is what the SS-2000 flat panel is supposedly designed to reject. However, being mounted outdoors and the built-in preamp would likely drive 3 TVs just fine.
post #14647 of 16013
Thoughts?
post #14648 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribby2001 View Post

Thoughts?

I would never consider a preamp for stations only 15 miles LOS, especially if I assume they're full power stations. I have a single 50KW station 14 miles LOS and it has wreacked havoc with some preamps. I use a notch filter to keep the giant signal out of the TV with a preamp.

I also never recommend any indoor antenna if you have any outdoor option. LOS is essentially multipath proof but indoor or attic is not LOS. LOS means you can see the transmit antennas if you put your head where the receive antenna is, even it takes a telescope.

At just 15 miles from the transmitters just about about any UHF antenna will work but I still recommend something with at least some directivity. You should have plenty of signal to use a 4 way splitter with no amplifiers.

Chuck
post #14649 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I would never consider a preamp for stations only 15 miles LOS, especially if I assume they're full power stations. I have a single 50KW station 14 miles LOS and it has wreacked havoc with some preamps. I use a notch filter to keep the giant signal out of the TV with a preamp.

I also never recommend any indoor antenna if you have any outdoor option. LOS is essentially multipath proof but indoor or attic is not LOS. LOS means you can see the transmit antennas if you put your head where the receive antenna is, even it takes a telescope.

At just 15 miles from the transmitters just about about any UHF antenna will work but I still recommend something with at least some directivity. You should have plenty of signal to use a 4 way splitter with no amplifiers.

Chuck

Thanks for that , Chuck.

I realize I have an almost ideal reception location

However, I can't honestly say I have true LOS. There is a single line of trees about 80ft from and between my proposed outdoor antenna site at the satellite dish and the tower. As well as neighboring homes in the LOS beyond.

Using an indoor antenna works fairly well (75-99) at all the TVs IF they are oriented just so and we ignore the aesthetics. Which doesn't please the wife. We would like to get them out of here and use a single outdoor antenna solution. But, without spending a small fortune on experiments and ending up with a small pile of "wire objects".

In light of what you said and considering cable, splitter and connector losses I think I have narrowed my choices.

1) Winegard non-amped SquareShooter SS-1000
2) Antennas Direct C1 ClearStream1

...and both pleasing to look at!

Any others I should consider?
post #14650 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribby2001 View Post

However, I can't honestly say I have true LOS. There is a single line of trees about 80ft from and between my proposed outdoor antenna site at the satellite dish and the tower. As well as neighboring homes in the LOS beyond.

Using an indoor antenna works fairly well (75-99) at all the TVs IF they are oriented just so and we ignore the aesthetics. Which doesn't please the wife. We would like to get them out of here and use a single outdoor antenna solution. But, without spending a small fortune on experiments and ending up with a small pile of "wire objects".

In light of what you said and considering cable, splitter and connector losses I think I have narrowed my choices.

1) Winegard non-amped SquareShooter SS-1000
2) Antennas Direct C1 ClearStream1

...and both pleasing to look at!

Any others I should consider?

Buy your antenna from a place that accepts returns if it doesn't work. If I had to pick one of the above, I'd choose #1. But I'd prefer something along the lines of the following for you. Others may have different opinions.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku=

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku=

My #1 priority is receiving the stations. Aesthetics are last on my list. What good is a pretty antenna if it doesn't receive the stations you want?

Trees can be problem, especially on UHF. I installed an antenna at my cousin's house that was 17 miles away from and LOS to the transmitters except for a line of tall trees. One station could not be received because of the trees and others were not as good as they should have been. Unfortunately the trees were 100' high so we had to accept what we received.

Your antenna should always clear the local ground clutter if at all possible.

Chuck
post #14651 of 16013
Clearstream 1 would be my choice, and at 15 miles, it will probably get VHF as well as UHF if you need it. Although Squareshooter may be a bit more aesthetically pleasing, and should also work well.
post #14652 of 16013
Hi all,

I'd like your help determining the best antenna or antennas and accessories like pre amps for my location.

Here's my tvfool
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b8634f0973849

Currently using a RCA ANT751R inside. Leaning towards building an SBGH or DBGH with NORODs. (which GH should I build?) For the most part I'm between two tower clusters very close to 180 degrees apart.

Planning for an attic install. I'm really trying to receive as many stations as possible.

Which antenna(s) best suit(s) my location?
Do I need a pre amp?
Two antennas or one omnidirectional antenna?
I'm trying to avoid using a rotor or an a/b switch, but I will if that will work best.

Thank you for any help or suggestions
post #14653 of 16013
Thanks for the feedback Chuck and Tyler.

I have a plan. Found an open box C1 ClearStream with a great price and will try it outdoors at the dish. If I am unsatisfied with the results I'll consider one of the following up in the attic:

Antennas Direct DB4E
Channel Master 4221HD
Winegard HD-9022

The above should have plenty of gain to overcome the 1-3 dB loss under asphalt shingles.
post #14654 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by yatri25 View Post

Hi all,

I'd like your help determining the best antenna or antennas and accessories like pre amps for my location.

Here's my tvfool
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b8634f0973849

Currently using a RCA ANT751R inside. Leaning towards building an SBGH or DBGH with NORODs. (which GH should I build?) For the most part I'm between two tower clusters very close to 180 degrees apart.

Planning for an attic install. I'm really trying to receive as many stations as possible.

Which antenna(s) best suit(s) my location?
Do I need a pre amp?
Two antennas or one omnidirectional antenna?
I'm trying to avoid using a rotor or an a/b switch, but I will if that will work best.

Thank you for any help or suggestions

I think you could put togather a stacked bowtie array that might work well. Making such out of stiff wire shouldn't be a problem. The problem might be getting 300 ohm twinlead to tie the elements. Keeping the 300 ohm value between the elements will be important. And you'll need a balun to attach the antenna to the coax coming down from the attic. How many bowties you use depends on the room available. And you will need to make them larger than a typical clip on, as you have at least one VHF to recieve. Maybe 30% larger. The bowties will recieve the same from front and back, in fact they don't have a real front and back. You could also buy some bowties and stack them on a dowel. Given that you need reception from stations 180 degrees more or less apart, bowties sound good. Don't think on the pre-amp until you see what the antenna will do on it's own.
post #14655 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by yatri25 View Post

....Currently using a RCA ANT751R inside.

Using the ANT751, what is the weakest channel (lowest on your TVFool report) that you can reliably receive now?
post #14656 of 16013
Quote:


Leaning towards building an SBGH or DBGH with NORODs. (which GH should I build?) For the most part I'm between two tower clusters very close to 180 degrees apart.

Well, you only have 2 vhf-hi channels in range. One is 56.1 NM which you could get on a reflectorless SBGH without NARODs. The other is a duplicate NBC channel you may not want anyway. If you do want that NBC, then I would build a reflectorless DBGH with NARODs, otherwise a simple reflectorless SBGH should do you well down to 22.8 NM.
post #14657 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by difuse View Post

I think you could put togather a stacked bowtie array that might work well. Making such out of stiff wire shouldn't be a problem. The problem might be getting 300 ohm twinlead to tie the elements. Keeping the 300 ohm value between the elements will be important. And you'll need a balun to attach the antenna to the coax coming down from the attic. How many bowties you use depends on the room available. And you will need to make them larger than a typical clip on, as you have at least one VHF to recieve. Maybe 30% larger. The bowties will recieve the same from front and back, in fact they don't have a real front and back. You could also buy some bowties and stack them on a dowel. Given that you need reception from stations 180 degrees more or less apart, bowties sound good. Don't think on the pre-amp until you see what the antenna will do on it's own.

I thought about purchasing a 4 element bow-tie array, like the Antennas Direct DB4E or Channel Master 4221HD for example, and simply mount it without it's reflector. Should be bi-directional - "8" - no?
post #14658 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribby2001 View Post

I thought about purchasing a 4 element bow-tie array, like the Antennas Direct DB4E or Channel Master 4221HD for example, and simply mount it without it's reflector. Should be bi-directional - "8" - no?


Yes, it's bidirectional without a reflector.
post #14659 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

Yes, it's bidirectional without a reflector.



I may try an 8-element (DB8), sans reflector, tied together with a 2x2 in the attic
Do you reckon I could receive out to 70 miles?
post #14660 of 16013
We have no idea if you would reach 70 miles or 7. Mileage ratings for antennas are estimates for very particular conditions.

Actually, we do know since you provided a TVFool report. All the stations to your east must travel 2-edge paths and all have negative noise margins. The implication is you need a high-gain antenna to have any shot of reliable reception (read the signal analysis FAQ linked to your TVFool report for further details.) A 4-bowtie array is a waste of time.

The DB4e should be all you need for your locals to the west. Don't forget that the usual penalty for attic installations is 10 or more dB, plus rain-soaked shingles will add more loss.
post #14661 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Loudin View Post

The DB4e should be all you need for your locals to the west. Don't forget that the usual penalty for attic installations is 10 or more dB, plus rain-soaked shingles will add more loss.

RAIN!? scratch (sound of eraser).
Didn't think about that.
post #14662 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribby2001 View Post

Do you reckon I could receive out to 70 miles?

I looked up WCGV and found its antenna is 346 meters above the ground and 340 meters over average terrain. Over flat ground the distance to the horizon is about 40 miles. Unless you live on a hill, it's unlikely you'll be able to receive any of those 70 mile stations with any antenna within reason with any reliability.

Chuck
post #14663 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I looked up WCGV and found its antenna is 346 meters above the ground and 340 meters over average terrain. Over flat ground the distance to the horizon is about 40 miles. Unless you live on a hill, it's unlikely you'll be able to receive any of those 70 mile stations with any antenna within reason with any reliability.

Chuck

Thanks, Chuck. This place has saved me a lot of unneccessary attic excursions.

It seems to me, at least in my case, that a decent small outdoor antenna such as a dual bow-tie DB2, C1 ClearStream1 or SquareShooter SS-1000 will likely provide very good and importantly "consistant" reception for my local major network stations. Which is really all that I need.

I'll probably have something setup next week and will report back here...
post #14664 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Have you tried a double re-scan?
1. Disconnect the antenna.
2. Run autoscan or whatever it's called in the setup menu.
3. Reconnect the antenna.
4. Run autoscan again.

I had a similar problem when a local station made changes to their PSIP data. The TV tuner could still "see" the station, but it could no longer decode it. The above procedure fixed it.

I finally got a chance to try a double scan this evening, and lo and behold, it worked. I am now able to tune KBMT channel 12 again on the DVR. Weird. I wonder why that works when deleting the channel and even resetting the DVR back to factory settings does not. Thanks for the tips and the help in this whole ordeal. Everything now is clicking on all 8 cylinders. I thank you all.
post #14665 of 16013
The full scan with the antenna disconnected completely clears out the channel memory. One would think that channel delete and/or complete reset would do the same, but it doesn't always do that. Glad it fixed your problem.
post #14666 of 16013
All the Channel Master DVR owners manual had to say about it was: "If you lose a channel, try another channel". Moronic.
post #14667 of 16013
I recently purchased a Tivo Premiere with a one year commitment and discovered too late that it is known to have a rather poor OTA tuner. I have had the most success with the RCA (Winegard) 721 antenna at about 25 feet. One continuous 70 foot RG-6 leads in to only the Tivo.
Still I get occasional pixelation on KCOS and KVIA (both the RF7 or RF17 versions). The signal quality and SNR figure is constantly on the move for these channels although the SNR does not fall below about 21 at any time. I have read that fluctuating SNR's may be a sign of multipath reception, but the Juarez analogs do not show hardly any "ghost" at all.
I tried the Winegard 269 amp, and it did literally nothing, no change with or without it. It got returned.
So, my question is would any amp help to stabilize the signal? I have heard that the SNR is determined by the amp and hope that a very high quality amp such as one of the Kitztech's would help.
My TV fool chart is http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b86526f12dec2
post #14668 of 16013
If the HDP-269 didn't help, I doubt a different pre amp would be any better. Have you ever tried raising/lowering the antenna a few inches up/down? It may just be sitting in a bad spot for those problem stations. The fluctuations you are experiencing usually indicate a poor quality signal which is many times cured with a slight vertical adjustment.
post #14669 of 16013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Have you ever tried raising/lowering the antenna a few inches up/down? It may just be sitting in a bad spot for those problem stations.

Yes, just this week I let the antenna down (telescoping mast) about 6 inches at a time from the 25 feet down to about 12 feet. Really, no difference all the way down.
I forgot to mention also, I tried two in-line Blonder-Tounge HLSJ's with the low port terminated to act as a possible FM trap. No change.
post #14670 of 16013
Have you tried aiming off-axis from the tower direction? Sometimes that will help. An FM trap will not help with RF 17. You might also try an inline attenuator. Some people say it won't help, but I have seen it help with a multipath problem. Solidsignal has them in stock. RS used to, but.....

You're correct about the Tivo tuners. Not very good with multipath.
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