The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 6

I have removed the screens on the 4228 and mounted on the roof. There is a large difference in sensitivity of the front and back. Does anyone know if this is because of the metal mast the 2228 is mounted to? Bruce

I live right outside Washington, DC (zip 22101) and antennaweb says that I'm in a "red" reception zone for all the channels I care about recieving in DTV. I am in a neighborhood with lots of trees. The stations are listed as being 5.1 to 8.5 miles away, and all the stations I want to recieve are mapped as being in almost the same direction. The map function on antennaweb has two lines that encompass all of those stations, and they're pictured ~10 degrees apart, so I'd guess a 10-15 degree arc for getting everything without repositioning. All of my digital OTAs (don't care about analog OTA) are UHF.

I've tried several OTA antennas so far, and am still seeing enough analog ghosting to kill DTV reception. My HD reciever is a Samsung SIR-T360 - not the best for OTA, not the worst either from what I've read here.

I first tried an old VHF/UHF antenna that's been mounted on my house for quite a few years (left by the previous tenants, no one's ever gotten around to taking it down). The rotator's busted, so I can't reposition it. I don't know the exact model - I doubt it's anything fancy, my guess from the other old equipment it was attached to in the ceiling is that it's a Radio Shack antenna. (The other signal distribution stuff was all Archer) I wasn't even sure if it would work, but it does pull in a signal. I can't get the ghosting to go away, though.

So I tried, again not expecting any great success, a set of rabbitears. PQ is *very* similar to the large rooftop antenna.

I just picked up a new RS U-75R UHF-only outdoor antenna, which is currently indoors. I'm hoping to avoid a roof mount if possible, since it will be a pain to get it up there. I don't feel comfortable working on a sloped roof.

It picks up UHF a little better. (Actually, it pulls in VHF about as well as the others did, too, even though it's "UHF-only". Pretty much confirms that both of the other antennas are useless IMO.) I am still getting *severe* multipath though, and DTV channels won't lock.

What's my next step? Would a good indoor antenna be better than using the U-75R indoors? I was planning on taking the new antenna up to the attic and doing an attic mount, but if the multipath is *severe* inside, it seems that this just isn't going to work. I could try to pick up a Silver Sensor or something if that would be my best testing option.. part of the reason I got the RS antenna was because of their liberal return policy. I'd rather not shell out for an antenna I can't take back if it doesn't work out - I still have *no* digital OTA channels coming in. I suppose the Silver Sensor is a returnable one, so if it has a good chance of working I'll pick one up and give it a try. I'm surprised that the U-75R has almost as much trouble rejecting multipath as a set of rabbitears though.

Okay, multipath is hell, and you're so close that you're going to have to fight it pretty strong.

My first piece of advice to you is to take that U75R back to Radio Shack. They're not all that great, and the corner reflector is probably part of why you're having trouble with multipath - they're not very directional.

While you're there, pick up a $2.99 UHF bowtie antenna and a variable attenuator. Experiment around a little bit and see if you can't knock those ghosts down to a minimum with that combo. As close as you are, gain isn't the problem.

If all else fails, you might want to try the Winegard SquareShooter. It should be easy enough to install without going all the way to the peak of your roof, and some report that it does wonders resisting multipath.

Okay, it'll be going back soon - probably tomorrow. I've continued tinkering, and it's now in the attic pointed at a window that's in the right direction for the stations I'm trying to recieve, according to antennaweb. Up here, I get most of my stations. There's only one network along the same azimuth as the others, and I'm intermittently picking up two others - an additional PBS station that's 60 degrees out of arc and 'Mhz', which AFAICT isn't listed in my antennaweb stations. (Edit: They renamed themselves and I missed it in the list. The station is listed, but it's over 150 degrees out of the 'main stations arc'.)

The odd thing is, I tried hooking a 20dB cable amp up right after the antenna. It seems to help slightly. (It's an old amp I had from having to use a very screwed up MDU CATV system - I had to amp my signal just to get my Tivo to lock on - that I had to use back in college.) I'm really baffled as to why it would _help_ if my signals are strong - maybe it's just not sensitive enough to pick up the weaker ghost signals, and is partially drowning them out? Or maybe I'm just imagining things, and I had the antenna aligned better when the amp is in place.

I'll get a variable attenuator and a cheap bowtie and see if that helps. Moving upstairs *did* help a good bit - I forgot to mention in my previous post that this is a masonry house and tends to block cellphone signals fairly well unless you're standing right next to a window. I'm hoping that maybe an attic antenna will overcome that, as the attic walls aren't brick.

Additional item: Tried the rabbitears in the *attic*, and they appear to pull in channels almost the same as the 75U. Also, with it being night, both antennas can mostly lock the aforementioned PBS and Mhz stations - I get occasional dropouts instead of occasional picture.

i am looking for a indoor antenna that can recieve hdtv broadcast well from 15-35 miles.......i live in battle creek, mi....and help would be much appreciated

Go HERE and click on "Choose an antenna" - follow the instructions.

thanks but this really isnt what i was looking for...i was looking for opinions on indoor antennas that people have used for this same range in distance that i need(15-35 miles) any more help would be great

OK, I understand. But unless you get the opinion of your neighbor, most likely other opinions will not be relevant to your situation/location. Everybody's geography and surroundings will be different.

I can get 5 of the 6 OTA signals by pointing my antenna in one direction. The 6th one has to be pointed 90 degrees away and I lose the other 5. I have tried a preamp and that helps a little but still I can only get either 1 or 5 and it really degrades my analog signal. Is there a good multidirection antenna set up by which I can get all 6. The 5 in one direction are about 17 miles away while the 6th (FOX) is 40 Miles away. I am trying to make it livable for my wife so that she doesnt have to rotate antenna between the two set ups.

The alternativeI was thinking was two antennas connect through an AB switch so that all you have to do is switch rather than rotate.

Yes, there are omni-directional antennas, but they sacrifice gain in order mto "hear" from all directions. If your stations are close enough and the gain of the directional antenna is not needed, an omni will probably pull the five and the one. I like the idea of two antennas, but someone more knowledgeable tan I will need to comment on that configuration. A switch would surely work, but perhaps a combiner could be used instead of a switch . .

Look into a Channel Master "Jointenna" designed for the frequency that's off-axis. Hook up a second antenna, plug both into the Jointenna and you should be fine. Keep in mind, though, that while the Jointenna is rated for one channel, there is some "bleed" a couple of channels in each direction. So if your stations are on adjoinging channels, you might still have trouble.

Ill give jointenna a try. My stations are at 27,28,30,58.60

The off axis one is at 38 so hopefully that is far enough off. If it works my wife will thank you even though she won't know it.

Does anyone make Antenna Rotors other than Channel Master ? I am looking for something that moves even a little faster than 1 RPM. I saw within the last month a press release for a antenna rotor that has one degree accuracy is setting direction but a search has not found mention of this product.

Chucka

Channel Master's remote controlled rotor is probably what they were talking about. You can set it by 1 degree increments.

I don't know about faster, but check out Ham radio groups for other rotor options. You'll probably spend a lot more than $100 to get one, but their stuff defines "industrial grade."

Look at http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/24
for many rotor options. I've not seen another one other than the CM rotor with remote control, though.

Charles

This "faster rotor" talk reminds me of racing small electric cars and the tweaks we used to do to get them to go faster - custom wind the motor, balance the shafts - the early equivalent of overclocking.

I am located in the Dallas/Ft Worth area and have a question about my setup. I have a mits ws55813, samsung t351, a terk indoor hdtv ant.

I would like to increase the signal strength in all my channels. I live approx 20-25 miles away from most broadcast towers. The signals are ok, but I would like to get them from 80-90 percent. Right now most are at 40-50 percent. Channel 8.1 (vhf) comes in great. Do the cheap amplifiers help this situation at all. I don't want to hang anything on the roof. The attic is a possibility but wanted to keep the setup simple. Does anyone use the indoor style antennas?

What are some suggestions? Again I know bigger is better but I want to get around the large antenna setup if I can.

Thanks for all your time and replies,

Steve

Hi Steve,

You'll probably get more knowledgeable members commenting manana, but I'm still awake . .

You can amplify the signals from your terk, but you may be amplifying the noise along with the signal and not really improving your situation. The only real way of getting more signal (and higher signal to noise ratio) is to, well . . get more signal. And to do that you need a bigger antenna. What about HD cable or satellite?

I have two tv's that have hd chasis built in. A sony xbr wega, and the mits ws55. I have had both for almost 3 years now. I just purchased the samsung 351 for OTA. I would like to get this setup polished first before getting the dish network hd.

So far the picture I get from the little terk is clear, but I just want it better.
I don't see much as far as artifacts or anything like that. But, then again my eyes are not perfect.

Again any tidbits are appreciated. I really would like to get a strong signal.
I know that Radio Shack sells a mid range antenna for like 35 bones.

Maybe that in the attic would do the trick. I just hate running wires through the wall. I have a vaulted ceiling and it is a big hassle.

Thanks again,

Steven O

This is in reference to my above setup post.

If (say for instance) I am getting 5 bars of signal strength on the sammy 351 for channel 5.1 (NBC), how many more bars would I get if I used a cheap amplifier? One bar? Maybe 2?

Thanks again,

Steven O

Potentially none.

Most "signal strength" meters are really "signal quality" meters, showing the amount of forward error correction data remaining for use. Thus getting a stronger signal doesn't mean getting a signal requiring any less error correction which might result from interference or multipath issues. In fact, a cheap amplifier could very well add more noise to your signal or amplify existing noise such that the signal-to-noise ratio is reduced and the receiver is unable to process more of the signal, reducing the signal quality reading you see.

So you won't know your situation until you try, and you really want to use a preamp that has a low noise figure, which means avoid cheap amplifiers.

It might help some stations which have low signals; it could hurt others that already have relatively strong or clean signals.

All right, class. Let's say the antenna basics mantra one more time:

"Bigger is better. Higher is better. Outside is better."

I'd buy a UHF only from Antennasdirect (the DB4 or DB8) for your attic (outside would be better), use what you have now for VHF, and combine the two using a Channel Master #0549.

A preamplifier isn't going to help your signal.

Samsung's signal meter sucks.

The signal meter on the samsung t351 only determines the amount of correction it will need to produce the signal? Does this mean that the picture will not look any different if you have 5 bars or 10. Sorry I am still trying to understand this piece of the puzzle. I appreciate all your help.

Take Care,

Steven O

Once you have an artifact-free picture, it doesn't get any better. More bars won't make things look better. A bigger antenna won't make things look better. A better TV will, but...

Most people who want to increase signal strength want to do so because their reception is less than reliable. IOW, they get macroblocking (artifacts) or drop-outs (completely black screen) from time to time. If you aren't getting either of these, your reception is "perfect" and doesn't need to be improved.

I'm 40 miles away from pretty much every station I want to get, and they're all within 1 degree of each other (208 and 209). I can mount something on the chimney, but I would prefer it wouldn't be absolutely huge. I figure I'll have to get some kind of amp, but I would like to know what kind of antenna someone would recommend in this situation and perhaps where to look for someone to install it.

Try a Channel Master 4228 or an AntennasDirect.com DB8. At 40 miles, you probably don't need a preamplifier, but make sure your installer brings a CM7777 or 7775 (the former if you need high-VHF reception, the latter if you don't need any VHF reception.)

The yellow pages is where I found my installer. Call around and listen to the installers. If they're unfriendly, hype a specific product, or guarantee results, they're probably not reputable.

Thanks a lot, this is exactly what I was looking for!

Does the CM 4228 provide VHF? All the signals I need to get right now are UHF but reading the rest of the thread makes me want to have both.

UHF antennas (of which the CM4228 is one) do get some signal on high-VHF stations. They don't get much of anything on low-VHF.

VHF antennas have the disadvantage of being very large due to the longer wavelengths involved.

VHF/UHF combos have the disadvantage of being very large like VHF antennas, and generally have poor UHF performance comapred to a dedicated UHF antenna.

If you're trying to future-proof, a combo might work fine for you. If you just want something that works for HD now and let the future (or distant future, as the case may be) work itself out later, go with the UHF and enjoy the current digital environment.

Average "life" of an antenna is about 10 years, after which they start having serious structural issues, as well as corrosion and other bad effects. They may work, and some last much longer, but that's a good guideline.

It is entirely possible that newer antenna designs will be heavily skewed toward UHF and potentially high-VHF as well, which would be a vastly superior design for what most expect the final digital landscape will look like.

I have places in suburban NYC (about 45 miles from transmitters), Florida (Delray Beach area), where I get most WPB and Miami OTA, and Seattle, where I am right in town. New York is tough since the Towers went down. Most locals are back, and I get them with a three antenna array I have rigged in my attic, using a reversed TERK 3 way splitter, CM preamps, and a CM line amp. I have signal from CT, NYC, and Long Island, which requires 3 antennnas because of the various directions. It works. I use a 20 year old CM corner reflector, which had been up there, unused, since cable (and now SAT). Naturally, it works best. Supplemented with a CM double "cat whisker", and then a single CM "cat whisker" for CT stations. Tried the TERK 45 and 55 (waste of time), a special Channel 10 Yagi made by CM (for CT ABC in New Haven, which was the only V), which didn't do anything, and later proved unnecessary, and finally ended up with that mess I described. Major disappointment: NBC owned WNBC DT on Channel 28, Big owner like that, running low power. Can't get a thing. Meantime, CBS and ABC (on two channels, one NYC, the other New Haven) bang in like a local. Anyway, it sure is fun. Running 2 HD receivers. Samsung 61 inch DLP, and Sony 30 inch flat panel LCD. Both superb.