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The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 516

post #15451 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Chasing down gremlins:

Strange: Antennaweb and TVFool show CBS local 11-1 RF19 at two different locations. It is not really a major issue for me; but trying to map things out, seems like all the other stations are shown in the same location from web site to web site.

Dallas

Hi,

 

Read this:

 

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view;jsessionid=hfLBR6LSzGFk6zy7HH0znghC6MHxpvqWCCHj3Hn2dG4VfNnpFsBP!1291806534!-1272756975?id=6015188435

 

RabbitEars was the starting point to find the document.

 

RabbitEars Markets

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php

 

You are a Fool to relay on TVFool when the FCC is in control.

 

SHF

 

(YES, I had to follow several links before finding the document. smile.gif You think the FCC wants you to find stuff. rolleyes.gif)

 

TVFool appears to have outdated data.


Edited by SFischer1 - 6/13/13 at 4:07pm
post #15452 of 16128
Yes the dropping of RF 11 and using only RF 19 for 11.1 I was aware of. What I was referring to was the "actual" physical location of the tower. It looks to me that the various web sites have a different physical location. And it is a ton of reading to try to figure out where the tower is.

This is a non issue for me, more or less just an item of interest. I was able to get RF11 and RF19 for 11.1 Of course RF 11 is gone now. Surprisingly, my neighbor is not able to get 11.1 at all - but he has not really tried - no real interest in TV. His antenna is about 100 feet from mine.

Regarding the other Dallas stations:

During this next month I should be addressing the "tree" problem head on, at least that is the plan. Nope, I can't remove the trees LOL Stay Tuned.
post #15453 of 16128
thanks.that will require a REGULAR TV antenna aimed at your locals stations' transmitter towers. 15.gif
post #15454 of 16128
You could do the same type of setup that I have I cannot remember if I posted it in this thread with the info on what equipment I am using. It is a DB8 for UHF, Channel Master CM-7778 pre-amp, Antennacraft® Y5713 for VHF. I am using a UHF/VHF Splitter/Combiner between the two antennas, since the DB8 will pick up VHF 7-13, and it is actually facing about 100 degrees from where the local VHF towers are in my area.
post #15455 of 16128
FYI: I've added 4nec2 analysis for several Yagi Antennas:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis
New ones include:

a) UHF 7-Element Folded Dipole (FD) Yagi, Optimized by nikiml, UHF Raw Gain = 8.3 to 12.1 dBi, F/B & F/R Ratio Minimum = 10.4 dB (FAIR).

b) UHF 7-Element Folded Dipole (FD) Yagi, with UHF Raw Gain = 7.8 to 11.2 dBi (slight reduction) with increased F/R & F/B Ratio Minimum = 14.6 dB (GOOD).

c) UHF 8-Element Folded Dipole Yagi (with 2 Reflector Rods), provides UHF Raw Gain = 8.2 to 11.7 dBi, F/B & F/R Ratio Minimum = 20.6 dB (EXCELLENT).

d) UHF 12-Element Folded Dipole Yagi, provides UHF Raw Gain = 8.2 to 12.7 dBi, F/B & F/R Ratio Minimum = 15.6 dB (GOOD), but SWR under 3.2 (FAIR) needs improvement.

e) UHF 13-Element Folded Dipole Yagi (with 2 Reflector Rods), provides UHF Raw Gain = 9.3 to 13.4 dBi, F/B & F/R Ratio Minimum = 22.3 dB (EXCELLENT).

BTW: Although I "requested" only 1 dB Gain increase across the New UHF Band (to compensate for higher Balun Loss prior to Preamp), the result curves were much more than needed: 3.5 to 4 dB increase....so the lower frequencies are disadvantaged when using a Preamp...but the larger difference is in the desired ballpark if NOT using a Preamp.

PS: When I deleted the F/B & F/R Ratio Optimization requirements, Raw Gain only increased 0.5 to 1.0 dB...hardly worth throwing away the above Good to Excellent F/B & F/R Ratio performance.

I also recently uploaded 4nec2 analysis for:

f) Vertically Stacked UHF 8-El Folded Dipole Yagis (2 Reflector Rods Each):
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/stacked/verticallystackeduhf/uhfvstack7elfdyagi2rr?n=0
UHF Raw Gain = 11.3 to 14.5 dBi, F/B & F/R Ratio Minimum = 22.2 dB (EXCELLENT) and SWR Under 3.0.


g) Various UHF 7-El Bi-Quagi, 7/8-El Bi-Quad Yagis and a 15-Element "Double Bi-Quad" that did not compare very well to the Stacked 8-El FD-Yagis just referenced:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1681265
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/biquads

h) UHF 7-El and 8-El "VEE" LPDA's:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/zigzaglpa/uhflpda
Raw Gain was EXTREMELY FLAT: 8.6 dB (+/- 0.2 dB), F/B & F/R Ratio Minimum = 27.2 dB (EXCELLENT).

Edited by holl_ands - 7/6/13 at 6:28pm
post #15456 of 16128
Solid Signal now has their own version of a 91XG type of UHF antenna called Extreme Signal. And they also have an 8 bay version similar to a CM-4228HD or DB8e.
post #15457 of 16128
i) 13-El FD-Yagi (2RR) with EQUAL LENGTH DIRECTORS for all in FRONT of 2nd Director results have also been uploaded.
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis/uhf13elfdyagi2rreqdiropt


UHF Raw Gain = 8.8 to 14.2 dBi, F/B & F/R Minimum = 21.2 dB and SWR Under 1.6.
Without Equal Director constraint, UHF Raw Gain = 9.3 to 13.4 dBi, hence we picked up 0.8 dB
on higher channels but lost 0.5 dB on lowest and only lost about 1 dB for F/R & F/B Minimum.
The 4.1 dB difference between lowest and higher freqs would disadvantage reception on
lowest Channels, esp. when using a Preamp but might be acceptable if NOT using Preamp.

UHF 13-El FD-Yagi (2RR) webpage now contains Boom Correction Calculation Spread Sheet
Examples, based on a variety of references sources (note disagreements):

http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis/uhf13elfdyagi2rropt

For a 1-in Boom (Circular or Square), the extra Passive Element Half-Length is 0.25-in or LESS,
and for a 1/2-in Boom, the Boom Correction is only 0.1-in or LESS. Element Size did not matter.
post #15458 of 16128
I have a channel master antenna on the roof with a cm 9521 rotor and controller. The controller has gone out. Makes a loud clicking noise when powered up. I cannot find a replacement. Every web site, including channel master,shows it as discontinued or out of stock. Is there an alternate available. The controller is model cm 9537.
post #15459 of 16128
I would contact Channel Master about the rotor. They have replaced many of their original products with newer versions since the PCT takeover.
post #15460 of 16128
Check for a short circuit. Thought mine was gone, but the shorting wires made it click.
post #15461 of 16128
Did you try ebay???
post #15462 of 16128
What is the cheapest (least expensive) 8 bay bowtie presently available? I'm not concerned with physical or performance quality. I am only concerned with price, since I am going to have to give it to someone, telling them that if they like it, they can go buy a "better one" themselves.
Edited by AntAltMike - 7/31/13 at 11:05am
post #15463 of 16128
How about this?
post #15464 of 16128
I'm using this amp with my Digital OTA, an amp I found left by a cable guy some years back when there was signal degradation over a long haul. How does it compare with what others are using? Are there better choices out there that are worth the full delta in price? My lower channels are strong- it's the higher ones that are weaker.

post #15465 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjvnyc View Post

I'm using this amp with my Digital OTA, an amp I found left by a cable guy some years back when there was signal degradation over a long haul. How does it compare with what others are using? Are there better choices out there that are worth the full delta in price? My lower channels are strong- it's the higher ones that are weaker.



If you look that part number up on Google there's lots of information on it. It looks like a good distribution amplifier if used in conjunction with a power splitter. It's not an antenna preamp if that's what you're looking for. It's used to extend the length of a cable run or drive multiple TVs.
post #15466 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

What is the cheapest (least expensive) 8 bay bowtie presently available? I'm not concerned with physical or performance quality. I am only concerned with price, since I am going to have to give it to someone, telling them that if they like it, they can go buy a "better one" themselves.
MCM Electronics has their Stellar Labs 8-bay for $49.99. Perhaps identical to the Extreme Signal version that is $59.99 from Solid Signal. Both models are adjustable to optimize direction.
post #15467 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjvnyc View Post

I'm using this amp with my Digital OTA, an amp I found left by a cable guy some years back when there was signal degradation over a long haul. How does it compare with what others are using? Are there better choices out there that are worth the full delta in price? My lower channels are strong- it's the higher ones that are weaker.

Those Electroline Drop Amps are very well made and can indeed be used as a preamp if you purchase a remote power supply. Also, the Motorola and Channel Master dist amps are very good, and can also be used as a preamp with a remote power supply.
post #15468 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

MCM Electronics has their Stellar Labs 8-bay for $49.99. Perhaps identical to the Extreme Signal version that is $59.99 from Solid Signal. Both models are adjustable to optimize direction.

If you just want to annoy the recipient, you can give them the link to the manufacturer in China of that particular antenna.

http://www.qiaohua.com/products/av-0948dt.htm

If you order them 1,000 at a time, you can probably get them for $8 each (or less) plus freight.

wink.gif
post #15469 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

If you just want to annoy the recipient, you can give them the link to the manufacturer in China of that particular antenna.

http://www.qiaohua.com/products/av-0948dt.htm

If you order them 1,000 at a time, you can probably get them for $8 each (or less) plus freight.

wink.gif
That company certainly seems to be the same manufacturer of the MCM/Stellar Labs and Extreme Signal antennas. They all appear to be the same or very similar.
post #15470 of 16128
If you poke around among their other offerings, you'll find the rest of SS's "new" antenna lineup. I stumbled across this company a while back when I was looking at the Digiwave offerings. Look closer and you'll see that even some of the product photos are the same on both websites minus the watermarks and one image that's been flipped horizontally.

I'm really surprised no one has congratulated SS on launching a product lineup four years after the products became obsolete, complete with improbable specifications and performance claims. 23 dB gain and a 60° BW on an 8 bay???? 60 dB BW on their 91XG knockoff???
post #15471 of 16128
The marketing claims appear to be inflated, but otherwise these appear to be good antenna designs. Although performance has not necessarily been evaluated. But I was recently able to get a DB8e for a very good price instore at Fry's in Georgia. And I just received a Televes DAT 75 that I got for $50 on ebay. More proven performers that I will try out. But I still have my original CM-4248 that I keep permanently installed as my main antenna. My best performer.
post #15472 of 16128
decking and wall construction materials, an attic install may not be reliable.thank you lt6Lgn
post #15473 of 16128
Attic install picture of stellar lab antenna from MCM. I am at 52 miles from NYC. This one is getting almost all the channels except two Hi-VHF (CW11 and PBS13).
post #15474 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kousikb View Post

Attic install picture of stellar lab antenna from MCM. I am at 52 miles from NYC. This one is getting almost all the channels except two Hi-VHF (CW11 and PBS13).

It's terrific that this is working for you but I believe that others reading this who are not familiar with typical reception situations could be misled into thinking that a small attic installation at 50 miles will work for everyone. It's most likely not to work.

I receive KSBW RF 8 at 115 miles 100% of the time with a very good signal. They use an omni antenna and 21KW. I also receive KCBA RF 13 99.9% from the same tower and they have just 65 watts in my direction from their highly directional antenna. This is an exceptional situation. Their antenna is at 3440' on one side of a valley and my antenna is at 2640' on the other side of a valley with almost nothing in between. Few people can expect reliable high VHF reception at 115 miles.

Fairly reliable reception of UHF full power stations using a good outdoor antenna should be possible up to 60 miles and perhaps 80 miles on high VHF. Compromise antenna installations in attics or indoors can expect considerably less.
post #15475 of 16128
Stellar Labs also makes a large version of that triple boom yagi from MCM. Similar to a design used by Televes DAT-75. And an attic set up can work well, but you are correct, for longe range distant reception, outside is normally better.
post #15476 of 16128
"Stellar Labs" doesn't make them, that's just a marketing name. They're made by the same Chinese company that Solid Signal is getting their "new" antennas from. Basically looks like a rip-off of the Televes design.

http://www.qiaohua.com/productstype/uhf-antennas-series2.htm
post #15477 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

"Stellar Labs" doesn't make them, that's just a marketing name. They're made by the same Chinese company that Solid Signal is getting their "new" antennas from. Basically looks like a rip-off of the Televes design.

http://www.qiaohua.com/productstype/uhf-antennas-series2.htm
Yes, that is what I was trying to say, but you stated it more accurately. But that triple boom design is reportedly a good performer, at least in the case of Televes.
post #15478 of 16128
I noticed after the install that the antenna I got also have hi vhf version for few bucks more. Its too late now and dont want to take the hassle of returning and rebuying. I will try to add large dipole in the center to see if it can improve the hi vhf frequency. Regarding, instaling it outdoor I understand that it would be much better. However I live in a subdivision and I didnt want to stand out plus it needs proper grounding to protect from lightening. Is proper grounding needed for attic installed antenna? Now that this experiment is successful, I am now thinking of trying RCA ANT751 and the antennacraft HBU22, which are supposedly better vhf performer.
post #15479 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kousikb View Post

I noticed after the install that the antenna I got also have hi vhf version for few bucks more. Its too late now and dont want to take the hassle of returning and rebuying. I will try to add large dipole in the center to see if it can improve the hi vhf frequency. Regarding, instaling it outdoor I understand that it would be much better. However I live in a subdivision and I didnt want to stand out plus it needs proper grounding to protect from lightening. Is proper grounding needed for attic installed antenna? Now that this experiment is successful, I am now thinking of trying RCA ANT751 and the antennacraft HBU22, which are supposedly better vhf performer.
As long as the wiring does not exit the structure, same goes for the antenna, why ground it?

As for being in a subdivision, they cannot stop you from placing an antenna for tv on your structure to begin with. They can restrict you from the size, such as the case of those large Ham Radio setups, but Over The Air, Satellite, they cannot touch you.
post #15480 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Those Electroline Drop Amps are very well made and can indeed be used as a preamp if you purchase a remote power supply. Also, the Motorola and Channel Master dist amps are very good, and can also be used as a preamp with a remote power supply.

By the way, a retailer on eBay is selling them new in package for $19.98/ea including free shipping- I ordered two new ones and they were in my box within 2 days. Freaky deal IMO.
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