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The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 69

post #2041 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Looking back at your earlier post, you are only 17 miles out from the Baltimore towers. It's possible you may run into overload problems with the CM 7777.

17 miles should be fine if he is physically blocked - which it sounds like.

If his signals look anything like my 31 and 45 (http://www.geocities.com/figbert/8vsb.html) then a preamplifier is a good idea.

Of course, amplifying the VHF in such a circumstance could cause problems, since VHF bends readily.
post #2042 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

17 miles should be fine if he is physically blocked - which it sounds like.

If his signals look anything like my 31 and 45 (http://www.geocities.com/figbert/8vsb.html) then a preamplifier is a good idea.

Of course, amplifying the VHF in such a circumstance could cause problems, since VHF bends readily.


17 miles is pretty close in no matter what for full power stations and with a high gain preamp like the 7777. If the line of sight is obstructed then most likely the problem is multipath in which case a preamp is unlikely to help anyway. Assuming not, a lower gain preamp or even a line amp like I mentioned would be more immune to overload. I've had overload problems (?intermodulation) with my 7777 when attempting to use it as a line amp (20 db amp on the mast, 7777 in-line after 130 ft. cable) and my closest full power is 50 miles.

VHF bends as you say but most VHF or combo preamps (CM 7777 included) are also lower gain and have higher output capacity at VHF frequencies.
post #2043 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria View Post

Not quite correct - see link from
http://www.signalelectronics.com/cha...r%20preamp.htm

"Models 7777 and 7778 cover both VHF and UHF bands with separate amplification in each band for maximum signal handling. They may be configured for either separate or combined VHF and UHF inputs. They include a switchable FM trap. "

Also see nice table in this link

peter

Sorry, my post wasn't very clear. I was referring to CM model 7775. It's a UHF only model, and I don't believe that it passes VHF. I agree that the other models will do a good job of handling both bands. In a previous post, it sounded like he might have been interested in only amping UHF. However, now it sounds like he will be amping both, for which the 7777 or the 7778 should work well.
post #2044 of 15401
Sorry for the newbie question, but I haven't been able to find the answer to my question so far.

I just moved to a rental townhouse in Brookline (essentially part of Boston), and according to antennaweb, am only ~6 miles from lots of HDTV stations. But there's a large building across the street that appears to be blocking the path.

I tried "silver sensor", and when I originally scanned for channels, could only pick up a NH PBS station 57 miles away! And when I checked the signal for the Boston stations, the best I could get was 48% (and no picture), no matter where I went in my house or within a 100 ft down the street...

I'm hoping to have a Dish Network dish installed in a few days, and am now hoping I could get the guy to install an OTA antenna as well.

Antennaweb suggests a "red" (medium directional?) antenna. What antenna should I get, or what else should I try?

Thanks much,
Dave.
post #2045 of 15401
I've been curious about this since I've decided to get an antenna. Because of where I live I've been leaning towards a CM4228 or CM4221. My local channels all have their HD channel above 14 now so UHF will be fine. But what happens once the digital deadline comes? Will the local channels, currently with VHF numbers for SD, start broadcasting their HD back on their old SD frequency, thus rendering my UHF only antenna useless? Or will they continue to broadcast on two frequencies? I know I'll probably get better reception right now with a UHF only, but I'd rather be proactive and get something that will work in the future.

Deezul
post #2046 of 15401
Hi you-all, haven't been to the site lately, as I have been too busy with other stuff lately, such as re-trying out a pair of stacked DAT-75's. In my opinion, as when I tried them out before, a single CM4228 still out-performed them. I then installed a CM4251, as shown in the picture, and it out-performs them all and does just as well on digital as it does on analog. This is the one I told MAXHD about that I bought from someone that had it lying behind his shed. I cleaned it up, and straightened the bent reflectors on it out as well as I could. Figured that I would show you-all what one looks like installed.
Also, I just read the latest posts about the parabolics, and yes they are the highest gain OTC antennas ever made.

fay28301
LL
post #2047 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezul View Post

I've been curious about this since I've decided to get an antenna. Because of where I live I've been leaning towards a CM4228 or CM4221. My local channels all have their HD channel above 14 now so UHF will be fine. But what happens once the digital deadline comes? Will the local channels, currently with VHF numbers for SD, start broadcasting their HD back on their old SD frequency, thus rendering my UHF only antenna useless? Or will they continue to broadcast on two frequencies? I know I'll probably get better reception right now with a UHF only, but I'd rather be proactive and get something that will work in the future.

The second channel for digital is only temporary. When the transition is over, each station will have to give one of the two channels it has back to the government.

In early February of this year, each station was required to send the FCC a form indicating which channel they would like to settle on. It's called a "DTV First Round Election" form. In most cases, a station may pick either their analog or their DT channel for post-analog operation, as long as it's within the "core" -- that is, channels 2 through 51.

Stations stuck with two "out-of-core" channels, or a "low-VHF" channel between 2 and 6, can either try to negotiate an arrangement with another station or move to a second round of elections, in which they can pick from the leftovers.

If you wish to see what your stations have filed, go here:
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs...d/app_sear.htm

This should take you to the FCC's "search for application" page. Plug in the station's callsign (you may have to use the "-TV" suffix) or city of license and, where it says "form number", select form 382. It should show you a list containing one or several applications. Then, where it says "Info/Application," click on "Application."
post #2048 of 15401
Many VHF stations will transition DTV to their old analog channel assignments.
However, many are keeping their UHF DTV assignment, or moving to a different UHF channel.
Note they have already invested heavily on the new UHF station, and should eventually save barrels of hard cash on their monthly electric bill.

DTV Channel Election statistics were discussed in Doug Lung's TVTechnology column:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...04.06.05.shtml
Note the link to a zip file summarizing channel election information as of 23 Feb 05.
post #2049 of 15401
The fol. Feb05 DTV Channel Election Summary is even easier to read:
http://www.dtvinfo.com/fccinfo/Form%...%20Results.pdf
post #2050 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by fay28301 View Post

Hi you-all, haven't been to the site lately, as I have been too busy with other stuff lately, such as re-trying out a pair of stacked DAT-75's. In my opinion, as when I tried them out before, a single CM4228 still out-performed them. I then installed a CM4251, as shown in the picture, and it out-performs them all and does just as well on digital as it does on analog. This is the one I told MAXHD about that I bought from someone that had it lying behind his shed. I cleaned it up, and straightened the bent reflectors on it out as well as I could. Figured that I would show you-all what one looks like installed.
Also, I just read the latest posts about the parabolics, and yes they are the highest gain OTC antennas ever made.

fay28301

Congratulations on a fine setup.

The 4251 is really fairly common in my area. You just have to get out into the country a bit and you'll see 4228's everywhere and probably a 4251 one out of ten. I'm sure a modest dollar offer would be accepted especially if there's also a dish on the roof/in the yard.

To get the best out of the DAT 75's when stacking them horizontally you have to space them out a bit. I used 56 inches. Televes recommends 57. This seems to be consistent with the recc put forth by Joseph Reisert at http://www.astronwireless.com/stacking.html and also is similar to stacking distances (for the lowest channel received) recc. by CATV antenna manufacturers like Lindsay Elec.
This also gives the best performance with the Triax Unix 100 Band A's (ch. 14-38) in my experience. It really narrows the beamwidth, though, so may not be preferred by Dxers as "catching" the signal is very important in that situation. The wider spacing also creates larger sidelobes but they don't seem to create a problem for me.
post #2051 of 15401
Gathered up some recommended antennas, boosters, etc... for OTA HDTV reception:

Antennas
A-Tech custom assembly - w/ 2 Blake JBX21WB high gain yagi UHF antennas
ATF-X300 Precision Antenna - horizontal dual yagi array
Antiference XG16EW - horizontal dual yagi array
Blake JBX21WB high gain yagi UHF (Blake UK)
Blake JBX21WB high gain yagi UHF (Blake UK)
Blonder Tongue BTY Series VHF & UHF antennas 9/1/05
Antennas Direct 91XG Uni-Directional Antenna - yagi UHF
Televes DAT75 Digital Wideband Tv Aerial - yagi UHF
Triax Unix 100 element aerial - yagi UHF
Antiference DX8W - yagi UHF
Winegard PR-9032 yagi UHF
Channel Master Model 4248 aka 3023 yagi UHF
Winegard HD-9095P yagi UHF
Funke DC.4591-21/69 yagi UHF
Home page for Funke aerial antennas

Channel Master CM 4228 - 8-bay bowtie UHF
Antennas Direct DB2 - 2-bay double bowtie indoor UHF
Antennas Direct DB4 - 4-bay bowtie UHF
Antennas Direct DB8 - 8-bay bowtie UHF
Pro Brand International - 2-bay double bowtie indoor UHF
Radio Shack UHF Dual HDTV Indoor Antenna - 2-bay double bowtie indoor UHF
Winegard Square Shooter (SS-1000 & SS-2000) - indoor/outdoor UHF
Antiference/Zenith Silver Sensor - indoor UHF
Kathrein Scala PR-TV Paraflector parabolic UHF 8/15/06
Wade 4' parabolic UHF antenna 4/12/07
Wade 6' parabolic UHF antenna 4/12/07
Wade 8' parabolic UHF antenna 4/12/07

Rotors, tilters...
ATF-V300 Precision Tilter
ATF-V200 Economy Tilter (use w/Channel Master 9521A rotator)
Channel Master Model 9521A horizontal rotator
ARS Antenna Rotator System for PC
Eagle Aspen ROTR100 rotor 4/12/07
Eagle Aspen ROTR100 rotor test 5/12/07
hy-gain rotators
Yaesu rotators

Preamplifiers/boosters
Angle Linear PHEMT single stage preamplifier - to 20 dB, .4 dB noise
Research Communications Type 9250 HDTV PHEMT LNA - 20 dB, .4 dB noise
Research Communications Type 9248 TV LNA (75 ohms) - 20 dB, .4 dB noise
Winegard AP-4700 UHF Pre-amplifier - 19 dB, 2.9 dB noise
Winegard AP-8275 UHF Pre-amplifier - VHF 28 db, 2.8 noise UHF 29 dB, 2.9 dB noise
Channel Master CM-7775 preamp - 26 dB, 2.0 dB noise
Channel Master CM-7777 preamp - VHF 23 db, 2.8 noise UHF 26 dB, 2.0 dB noise
Kuhne Electronic broadband UHF PHEMT preamplifier - 20 dB, 1.2-2 dB noise
Sitco PA24 Series UHF preamplifier - 25 dB, 1.4 dB noise
Radio Shack 15-2507 - 15 dB each main amp & preamp, <4.5 dB noise

Accessories hyperlinked 6/10/05
Blake non-penetrating roof mount
Antenna mount, side wall installation
CC-5C Multi-conductor control cable
Dual Antenna Boom Assembly
CB-V300 center boom bracket
PH-30B Phasing harness
Winegard CS-002 5-1000MHz Splitter
Antenna Phasing Harnesses and Signal Combiners
CA-11Q - cable type "F" male cable connectors
Channel Master Model 1612 - mast 2 - 1.25" x 10' 16 gauge steel mast tubes
Channel Master CM 9014, 9039 Universal Swivel, Steel Base Mounts & hardware

Antenna/reception links
How to for television stations wihin the given range of your location
See broadcast television stations wihin the given range of your location
Latitude/longitude finder
Magnetic declination - values of time/date/locaton...
Antennaweb - finding local TV statios/support
TitanTV
DTV Stations on the Air - state map selection
Worldwide list of Radio & TV Stations 6/9/05
HDTV Television Channel Broadcast Status 6/9/05
National and Worldwide lists of Broadcast Radio, TV and Ham radio stations 6/9/05
same site as above - listing California 6/9/05
Very useful site, w/Doug Lung's weekly RF REPORT column on DTV Technology 6/9/05
No more hit-or miss: spectrum analyzers 9/5/05
The Official AVS Antenna / OTA Reception Topic! 9/6/05
Calculators, maps...
Antenna Up/Down Tilt Calculator (compensates for Earth curvature) 6/9/05
Antenna Tilt Angle Calculator 6/9/05
Interactive Wireless Network Design Analysis Utilities 6/9/05
Antenna - K-Factor & climate effects 6/9/05
Vincenty formula for distance between two Latitude/Longitude points 6/12/05
Vincenty's Formulae, Inverse Method 6/14/05
Forward Inverse - Azimuth, distance... ellipsoidal calc program 6/14/05
Ellipsoid Radii Calculator 6/14/05
Vincenty Ellipsoid corrected Great Circle Calculator 6/14/05
Distance and bearing between two Latitude/Longitude points 6/14/05
Freeware DOS program calculates ellipsoidal geodesic path 6/14/05
UHF conversion charts (channel/frequency) - CATV - TV - FM Frequencies
TerraServer.com - motherload of topo & other maps (hi-rez viewing requires subscription) 6/9/05
GeoCode Eagle will show your GPS LAT/LONG on a Topo Map 6/9/05
Tailor coordinates to yield Topo or Aerial Photo Map in jpg format 6/9/05
Free RADIO MOBILE Propagation Prediction Program, holl_and's thread/description... 6/9/05
Custom topographic maps - free preview 6/8/05
Digital Topo Maps 6/8/05
USGS Maps 6/8/05
TopoZone 6/8/05
SatCalc - pointing angle for any geosynchronous TV satellite 6/8/05
Antenna information
Recommended high gain UHF TV antennas
Fox55 antenna selection
TV and FM receivers, currently used by Dxers
TV and FM receivers, currently used by Dxers
Erecting a TV Antenna & other HDTV Primer links 6/7/05
Indoor antennas
Comparing the common antenna types
Comparing the common antenna types
HEAVY METAL, PART 1 - VHF-UHF Antennas Compared for Outdoor DTV Reception
HEAVY METAL, PART 1 - w/pictures
HEAVY METAL, PART 2 - Comparisons of indoor antennas for VHF-UHF DTV reception 6/7/05
LUXORION - LOTS of Antenna systems info (links on lower page) 6/10/05
FM Antenna Gain and Pattern simulations 6/7/05
Measured Gain for UHF antennas mounted outdoors & in (high loss) attic 6/7/05
Excel spreadsheet comparing manufacturer's Gain, Front/Back Ratio & Beamwidth 6/7/05
measured Gain and VSWR for popular indoor & outdoor UHF antennas 6/7/05
measured Gain and VSWR for popular indoor & outdoor UHF antennas (.xls file) 6/8/05
Antenna VSWR Degradation to DTV Receiver Sensitivity 6/7/05
highest performing Indoor antenna - DB-2 from Antennasdirect (UHF only)
Antenna performance chart
Antenna performance page
Antenna wiring, receiver/transmission noise
Antenna basics - excellent source for technical antenna & accessories info 7/28/05
Diagram of a Half-Wave Coaxial Balun & a handy calculator 6/28/05
On-air DTV test with various length Coax Baluns 7/28/05
Entry point to purchase custom made Coax Baluns ($40) 7/28/05
Winegard transformers 7/28/05
Half-Wave Balun compared to wider bandwidth, low loss, Log Periodic Balun 7/28/05
Some basic Ferrite Balun design information 7/28/05
Maximixe performance of reception antenna installation 7/28/05
Feeder radiation - installing a 1/2 wave coaxial transformer or choke balun 6/27/05
Baluns & Centre Connectors (Balanced/dipole antenna to Unbalanced Circuits) 6/28/05
Other antenna sites
DX FM site
Channel Master reference chart
Stacked Blake Aerials for Digital Television
Televes Dat75
Maxus Super UHF Corner Reflector Yagi MXU59 - yagi deep fringe
Great antenna selection (European models included...)
Stacking TV antennas
A 16-Bay (bowtie) UHF Ant - 2 ChannelMasters or Winegards...
Vertical stacked yagis - Coyote Ranch
Moonbounce (EME) UHF TVDX
Yagi DX antenna arrays
Extra long yagis
Amplifiers, preamplifiers & DTV info
Digital TV Signal Distortion & Interference 9/10/05
High Dynamic Range Receiver Parameters 9/10/05
- RF, RFIC & Microwave Theory, Design RF... amplifier design & theory 9/10/05
Choosing the right antenna preamplifier
Special Frequency GaAsFET Preamplifiers
Angle Linear - pricing & ordering information
Johansson UHF preamplifiers
Johansson UHF preamplifiers
Build An E-pHEMT Low-Noise Amplifier
Micrin 3-channel E-pHMET preamplifier
STB's - Over The Air DTV/HDTV/Cable HDTV In The Clear - QAM
8-VSB, COFDM & DVB-T...
WHAT EXACTLY IS 8-VSB ANYWAY? (suitable OTA MPEG-II encoding and 8-VSB modulation)
Earth's shape & latitude/longitude corrdinates
Earth's gravity definition - the Geoid 6/9/05
Mean Sea Level, GPS, and the Geoid 6/9/05
The Ellipsoid! Or is it the Spheroid? How About Geoid? 6/9/05
Mathworld - Equation 22, finding earth radius @ latitude (for oblate ellipsoid) 6/9/05
The NGS GEOID Page - +/- adjustments for earth's oblate ellipse 6/9/05
NSG COMPUTATION OF USGG2003 GRAVIMETRIC GEOID HEIGHT 6/9/05
NSG COMPUTATION OF GEOID03 GEOID HEIGHT 6/9/05
Earth - ellipse demo 6/9/05
The Earth's Geoid 6/9/05
Earth - parametric latitude, WSG84 spheroid specs... 6/9/05
The Earth as an Ellipsoid, flattening, Datum history... 6/9/05

Recommended from fellow AVS Members, other web sites & DX sites (who use enhanced tropospheric propagation to receive signals up to & over 1,000 miles distant). I try to keep separated different antenna types & categories for different uses/needs... Any other models to recommend or those listed to comment on?

Special thanks to AVS Member holl_ands, Wendell R. Breland & videobruce for additions & updates.
post #2052 of 15401
I've searched the forum for help regarding trees and OTA reception, but have not found a definitive answer.

My house is surrounded by a curtain of trees, from 30-100 feet away, and about 60 feet high. I have an older UHF/VHF classic directional tv antenna on the roof, and it does an admirable job with most HD channels, but a few are simply unworkable. The broadcast towers are all about 10miles away, and the stations are in about the same direction (185 and 199). I've tried an amplifier (not a pre-amp), rewired coax directly to the antenna, and even purchased a ChannelMaster Stealth (3010), but to no avail. Short of an 80 foot tower in my backyard, is there anything I can do that is reasonably inexpensive (less than $100), or should I give it up?

Thanks in advance, sorry if I broke any protocol, I'm new to this.

ps- I'm in the Washington, DC suburban area - 20853 - if that helps.
post #2053 of 15401
I have the winegard squareshooter 2 (with pre-amp), mounted on my chimney.
At present I am pulling in 13 over the air HDTV stations, a couple of which are
automated weather/info channels. I also have Cox cable, and They offer my local
channels free in HDTV. The antenna is a multidirectional unit, approx 16" square,
barely noticed from the street. Antennaweb says I should only be able to receive 9 stations. About the ony HD channels I can not get are ESPN & Discovery.
I've also noticed that the over the air channels are a bit clearer than the cable,
as the cable company uses signal compression.
post #2054 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyzerman View Post

I've searched the forum for help regarding trees and OTA reception, but have not found a definitive answer.

My house is surrounded by a curtain of trees, from 30-100 feet away, and about 60 feet high. I have an older UHF/VHF classic directional tv antenna on the roof, and it does an admirable job with most HD channels, but a few are simply unworkable. The broadcast towers are all about 10miles away, and the stations are in about the same direction (185 and 199). I've tried an amplifier (not a pre-amp), rewired coax directly to the antenna, and even purchased a ChannelMaster Stealth (3010), but to no avail. Short of an 80 foot tower in my backyard, is there anything I can do that is reasonably inexpensive (less than $100), or should I give it up?

Thanks in advance, sorry if I broke any protocol, I'm new to this.

ps- I'm in the Washington, DC suburban area - 20853 - if that helps.

At only 10 miles you most llikely have *too much* signal if anything. Get rid of the preamps & amps. Put a variable attenuator (RS 15-678 $10) right at the back of your receiver and start dialing down signal levels. The other variable to play with is antenna location. A change of as little as 6 inches can make a big difference sometimes.
post #2055 of 15401
I'm in zipcode 55448, 11.1 miles from pretty much all the towers. There is a installer coming this week to install a dish system and they are willing to install a OTA antenna also while they are here. I would prefer using a antenna in my attic (currently have the original from 11 years ago when house was built, I ran new RG6 cable to it but other then that its just kinda sitting up there not mounted or aimed at all - pretty crooked actually) I get most stations usually no problem, there was 1 time when very few came in but I have no idea why. Also, The WB only came in once the whole time i've tried using OTA HDTV.

( red - uhf KMWB-DT 23.1 WB MINNEAPOLIS MN 141° 11.1 22 )

My question is this - Could I stick somethin like a silver sensor up in my attic and have it work effectively by diplexiing the signal with the satellite feeds? (goin to 3 seperate HDTV Boxes) Or would I be better off with somthing like a channel master 4221? For the 4221 would it matter if it is on the roof or in the attic for such a close distance?

Thanks!
post #2056 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by codee View Post

I get most stations usually no problem, there was 1 time when very few came in but I have no idea why. Also, The WB only came in once the whole time i've tried using OTA HDTV.

( red - uhf KMWB-DT 23.1 WB MINNEAPOLIS MN 141° 11.1 22 )

My question is this - Could I stick somethin like a silver sensor up in my attic and have it work effectively by diplexiing the signal with the satellite feeds? (goin to 3 seperate HDTV Boxes) Or would I be better off with somthing like a channel master 4221? For the 4221 would it matter if it is on the roof or in the attic for such a close distance?

You can read about things like tower painting, problems and the likes here: www.hdtvtwincities.com Most of the engineers post there when they have problems.

KMWB-DT is running at 20kw, directionally biased (in the extreme) to the south and east. People north and west of the tower typically can't get a signal from 10 miles away, even with great antennas and line of sight.

The 4221 is highly recommended. Outdoors is always better than indoors, as it eliminates many things that cause degradation of signals.
post #2057 of 15401
Ok so I havent gotten around to renting the cherry picker yet. But anyway I was combing the net for more info on the parabolic. It appears that the unit I have is the 4251. I found this thread from 2002 here http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...hreadid=126698

Basically it discusses adding wire mesh to the back of the antenna increases gain and increases the f/b ratio.

I'm thinking about either adding another section to the antenna to further space them apart, then putting the UHF at the very top, since it the hardest to receive. The FM below that and then the VHF below that, or maybe FM at the very bottom and the VHF ontop of that. Thoughts? I hardly use the FM at home, and as it is now I can really reel in some FM stations.
post #2058 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

Spend some time here:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Well, that explains why I can't get one of my local channels in digital.

56 - KJRH-DT -- NBC 800 kW
55 - KOTV-DT -- CBS 970kW
42 - KTFO-DT -- UPN 625kW
22 - KOKI-DT -- FOX 1000kW
10 - KTUL-DT -- ABC 7kW

Can you guess which major station I have problems receiving?
post #2059 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccorm View Post

Well, that explains why I can't get one of my local channels in digital.

56 - KJRH-DT -- NBC 800 kW
55 - KOTV-DT -- CBS 970kW
42 - KTFO-DT -- UPN 625kW
22 - KOKI-DT -- FOX 1000kW
10 - KTUL-DT -- ABC 7kW

Can you guess which major station I have problems receiving?

I'm guessing the channel on VHF, Channel 10. My channel 3 here is 3.7kW, moving on up to a massive 4.4kW. I get alright reception at 30 miles.
Sounds like you need something with gain. I think MAX HD has a nice VHF-hi yagi that would do the trick:
http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBar...nas/index.html
post #2060 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccorm View Post

Well, that explains why I can't get one of my local channels in digital.

56 - KJRH-DT -- NBC 800 kW
55 - KOTV-DT -- CBS 970kW
42 - KTFO-DT -- UPN 625kW
22 - KOKI-DT -- FOX 1000kW
10 - KTUL-DT -- ABC 7kW

Can you guess which major station I have problems receiving?

If you're looking at KTUL, it's not as bad as it appears. VHF uses lower power to get equivalent coverage, and KTUL's digital transmitter is high enough that the maximum the FCC will allow them is 60kw. They're nowhere near that, and they're directional to boot (and if you're in the wrong direction, the signal could be as low as 1.35kw ERP. Still, that should cover at least 20-30 miles without any problems.

If you are using a UHF-only antenna, you may need to point it in a different direction for the VHF signals to come in at their best. I find that my UHF-only antenna does best pointed about +30 degrees from the target signal on hi-VHF.
post #2061 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by quarque View Post

At only 10 miles you most llikely have *too much* signal if anything. Get rid of the preamps & amps. Put a variable attenuator (RS 15-678 $10) right at the back of your receiver and start dialing down signal levels. The other variable to play with is antenna location. A change of as little as 6 inches can make a big difference sometimes.

Many thanks for your advice. Attenuator didn't help. However, as a last ditch attempt, I picked up an omnidirectional antenna at Radio Shack and that did the trick. Must be enough ambient UHF signals coming around the house and in the clear behind the directional antenna to make it work. You're right about position - I found that even a few inches can make or break a signal.
Cheers.
post #2062 of 15401
I have seen pictures, but have been unable to find them of a combination mast setup for an antenna and a dish to be mounted on.

Any ideas?
post #2063 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

I have seen pictures, but have been unable to find them of a combination mast setup for an antenna and a dish to be mounted on.

You would need a very strong mast to attach even a mini-dish to. Most antenna masts are rather lightweight and couldn't handle the wind load of an 18" dish.
post #2064 of 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

You would need a very strong mast to attach even a mini-dish to. Most antenna masts are rather lightweight and couldn't handle the wind load of an 18" dish.

The setup I am looking for is a standard satellite dish with bracket, but there is another bracket also for a mast that the antenna clamps on. This way there will be only one bracket being mounted on the new house.
post #2065 of 15401
Well I saw Antennas Direct banner ad here, led me to add a few more excellent antennas...
post #2066 of 15401
Kudos for the very comprehensive antenna reference list.

You might want to add the following to the list:

The www.hdtvprimer.com website isn't logically laid out.
The fol. link should be added to ensure access to additional important links within the site:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

FM Antenna Gain and Pattern simulations: http://users.tns.net/~bb/

Bob Chase (Houston Broadcast Engineer) compares measured Gain for numerous
UHF antennas mounted both outdoors and in his (high loss) attic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...32#post5410432

I posted an Excel spreadsheet comparing the manufacturer's Gain, Front/Back Ratio and Beamwidth for a couple dozen UHF Antennas and provided comparison to the hdtvprimer NEC Simulation data for several selected antennas:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages...tml?1109029581

Kerry Kozad (Dielectric) finally posted his paper comparing the measured Gain and VSWR for several of the most popular indoor and outdoor UHF antennas, including a comparison to NEC Simulation results:
https://secure.connect.pbs.org/confe...ns/TC05_43.htm

This is the most comprehensive VSWR measurements effort that I have seen to date,
filling in data for an area the antenna manufacturers woud rather not talk about.
VSWR is important for DTV when an antenna mounted preamp is not used due to
Noise Figure degradation (actually degradation of the DTV signal vectors) as the
signal bounces back and forth on the long downlead.
More on this subject can be found in my fol. post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...65#post5399965
post #2067 of 15401
Thanks holl_ands! Added & dated those links & gave you credit. Guess I have some more reading to do. Many of these solutions may hopefully be more permanent for the future, unlike a lot of upgrades in the A/V world...
post #2068 of 15401
Does anyone think there will be any benefit to using a pre-amp with dist amp on the same line? Is there a chance of overload? I am 36 miles from my antenna farms. I recently relocated my antenna to the roof do to tree leaving and weak signals, and I am now running about 100 ft of rg6 up to the roof. I get all my stations locked in at about 69% and up most of the time. Also, Stark Electronics is in my hometown, so I could go with the CM 7775 and return if I didn't notice any considerable improvement. I'm just worried that the noise might affect the PQ.

DB4
dish 811

****Note to anyone who reads this post. Learn from my mistake here. For months I had my dist amp 10 feet from the receiver. As I was experimenting, I moved the amp to a middle location of the 100' run at my side door and voila, all channels were locked in smoothly. I believe I was overdriving the signal being so close to the receiver. Anyways....new to this stuff, so I guess I'll learn as I go along.

Thanks for any advice you may have.
post #2069 of 15401
It's almost always a bad idea. One amplifies the noise created by the other. The probable reason moving the amp worked better was it amplified a better quality signal. You might want to try a preamp instead. The amplifier section is mounted very close to the antenna and amplifies the signal before it gets degraded by line loss. Good preamps like the 7775 and 7777 are less noisy than the typical distribution amp. With so many stations moving back to VHF and the excellent reputation of the 7777, you might consider that.
post #2070 of 15401
Hi,
I live in the Washington DC area, I posted a similar question in that forum last week but got now responses.

I just built a HT in my basement and since it is projector based and I'm waiting for the new MPEG-4 receivers, I decided to forgo a satellite setup for now. I wanted OTA HD so I bought a LG-4200A & love it. This theater is in the basement, I hooked up the existing, old outdoor antenna with spotty results. So I picked up a Silver Sensor & kept in in the basement, not much better. I then ran the SS from my attic (1 story house) with much better results - I'm receiving all local channels - a couple of drop offs but I'll move the antenna around a bit to resolve it.

I am only about 5 miles from the local towers, so I feel pretty comfortable with my results. However I'd love to pick up Baltimore & Annapolis stations - they are 30 miles away (BTW, all these stations are UHF, like my locals). Antennaweb.org suggests a Medium Directional (red) antenna. I don't mind putting a new antenna on my outside pole (attached to our chimney) but my concern is the correct antenna. I've heard people talk about getting too powerful of an antenna - any happy medium?

Thanks,
Bob
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