The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 190

I wasn't aware the 5th gen LG chip was used with that tuner. I'm assuming you are referring to another chipset which has remained highly sensitive in later generations or is this actually the LG chip?

The problem has been that tuners which do better with multipath tend to be less sensitive. I've not seen anything that suggests this has been solved.

Edit: I see that that is the LG chip. What would be nice for me to see is a comparison of this to their 3rd and 4th gen chips. Also, it sounds like you were experiencing a fair amount of multipath for whatever reason which certainly should favor the 5th gen LG.

I only get to experment with multipath from the Providence channels because with a large antenna up high that is what I receive. These stations are 50 miles away and not line of sight due to the hills of New England. My experience is that at long distances I always get some multipath. I watch the four major networks from Providence because they come in the best. I don't have a good way to measure the SNR of the channels but channel 54 went from usable about 60% of the time to 90% when I changed the antenna preamp from an AP4700 to a Research Comms. 0.4 dB N.F. one.

Hello all,

I posted this in my local reception forum, but no bites yet, and I'm sure you guys have some suggestions:

I'm having a bit of trouble getting a couple locals, 2, 7, and 9 (on 51, 55, and 52). 27/28 and 35/32 come in perfect, with (IIRC) 100% strenght on every tuner I have. The others, 2, 7, and 9 are right on the threshold, being unreliable, working most of the time on some tuners and only partially on others.

The setup is a 10' V/UHF antenna from Radioshack an ancestor or the VU-120XR I believe (I stole it from my parrents). That feeds an RS amp (had laying around), amp is place within 6' of cable of the antenna. From there it feeds a splitter and then onto an Avermedia A180, MyHD MDP-130, and a Dish VIP211.

As near as I can tell, without having a compass handy, I'm aimed at 2,7,9,35, and I've moved the antenna around to maximize the signal. Just looking for suggestions. Is there any way to tell if the problem is lack of strengh vs multipath?

I have no interest in analog (read VHF) reception, just digital, and I'm wondering if a better, smaller (I don't need 8-feet of wasted VHF antenna) would serve me better.

Thanks

Interesting. My reception is from 50-130 miles and I only have one channel with any degree of multipath and it is at around 55 miles and out of a very mountainous area (Hazard KY). I assume the digital is multipathed because the analog equivalent is. My remaining analogs are just weak/snowy so I assume their digital equivalents are similar.

I have also found the RC preamps to be very good at long distances. I use the 9248 for hi band vhf, have used the 9250 for uhf (up to the point where a near lightning strike fried it), and now use the 9253 for uhf. Both the 9250 and 9253 are slightly better than the Sitco wide band uhf preamp which is in turn a fair amount better than the CM 7777 for uhf in my experience.

I'm assuming with that size antenna you are around 50+ miles from your stations. That being the case, you could certainly improve things for uhf by going with a dedicated uhf antenna such as a CM 4228 or wide band Yagi/corner reflector i.e. Antennasdirect XG91. You could also improve your performance with a better preamp from either CM (7777) or Winegard.

Don't forget that some of your locals may switch frequencies after analog shuts off so you might should keep the combo antenna in storage. If the analogs are 2, 7, 9 with corresponding digitals of 51, 55, and 52 it's very likely you'll need to have vhf capability as probably both 7 and 9 will continue to be vhf for digital after the changeover. The "core" channels of 2-51 will be the only ones available at that point so they will be forced to go to something other than 55 and 52. Go to http://www.tvradioworld.com for links to this info for your locals. Look under "complete FCC info" and then under the certificates for channel election.

Multipath is evidenced by ghosting on your analog channels. Weak signals without multipath will look snowy.

I only can see multipath on analog stations with the antenna misaimed. Fox's analog station is on channel 64. It has moderate snow, somestimes a bit herring bone or a sort of texture, but nothing that could be caused a ghost. The peaks and dips on tne digital stations vary a little from minute to minute and a lot from day to day, but the only way i have found to see that amount of multipath is with the spectrum analyzer.
John

Actually more like 30:

KCRG-DT 9.1 325° 24.1 52
KRIN-DT 35.1 325° 24.1 35
KGAN-DT 2.1 325° 24.1 51
KWWL-DT 7.1 333° 28.8 55
KFXA-DT 28.1 279° 25.8 27

The 35 and 28 I get fine. I believe I'm aimed at about 325. The amp is mainly compensate for the splitter.

I guess my real question is if my reception hardware is "rolling off" above 35, the only channels I have trouble with are the relatively high frequency ones.


I doubt I'll toss it, but I'm not really worried about it.

Most likely the gain is actually increasing with frequency if it's a typical yagi/corner reflector design. The beamwidth also narrows, though, so aim becomes more critical in the upper frequencies. You might double check your aim.

One reason for the lower frequency channels doing better than the high ones would be if you've got a hill between you and the transmitting antennas; the higher the frequency the less tolerance to an obstructed line of sight. But your splitters and/or your amp or cables could be at fault also. Or it could be coincidence; those channels could be transmitting at lower power.

Another possibility with yagis is you've actually aimed a sidelobe at the station, rather than the main lobe. The sidelobes move with frequency.

I'm new to HDTV and new to these boards. I have been looking into getting an antenna for ota broadcasts and need some advise. I live in a narrow forested canyon on the slopes of a mountain. I have the PBS and FOX tower in view and antenna web tells me the tower is only 2 miles away. I get the PBS hd channel with rabbit ears easily. Antenna web tells me that PBS is the only digital station I can recieve. There are two other digital stations in my area but the tower is over a mountain but only 15 miles away.

Will an antenna be able to pull in the digital channels? If so what antenna would you all recommend.

No. Antenna don't pull channels. If the signal gets to your antenna, however, you will be fine. And you may well get some defraction over the mountain. Could try setting the rabbit ears on the roof as an experiment, and see what you get.
What channels are these two stations on?

The default Antennaweb settings are very conservative for digital reception. Go to the antennaweb address & zip page, enter your address, click on the options link at the bottom of the page and enter in something like 100 feet or higher into the height box. I have to enter around 150 feet to get a close match to the digital stations that I get with a Channel Master 4221 4 Bay and CM 7777 pre-amp mounted in my attic.

If you give us your zip code, we can look up the local broadcast stations for you and see if some are at low power or not broadcasting digitally at all (Class A stations for example). Also, find out what channels these stations are broadcasting their digital signal on: UHF, upper VHF (7 to 13), low VHF (2 to 6)?

I'm about to install an antenna on my gable end of my roof. I have a two story house in Columbus (maybe 15 miles northeast max from the major stations). My problem is I've got a 40' maple in the path of downtown Columbus and where my antenna will be. I'd like to use a larger boom antenna, but am limited to where I can place it, as I live on a corner in a suburban neighborhood.

Is it better to put a larger antenna behind a tree, or a smaller unit off the side of the house (lower) in the path of the signal? I'd really like a UHF/VHF antenna if possible.

Please help, as this is going up before the Buckeye game tomorrow and Time Warner doesn't do ABC in HD.

Thanks in advance.

Buckeyefan,

At your close range, I would go with the smaller antenna in the clear. You shouldn't need a large antenna, and trees may not hinder reception, but they can. Or wind may blow branches into or onto the antenna and break it.

I am looking for some advice. I am about 55 miles from the one channel that I still need to pick up (ch 19). I would like to keep it in the attic if possible even though I know that hurts my siginal.
I have been looking at info about several different 8-bay antennas; the Antennas Direct DB8, Winegard PR 8800, and the CM 4228. The 8800 seems like it might be the best for the channel that I need and it is also the least expensive, but I haven't seen it discussed much.
Please help me...

Thanks for your help and good sugestions. My zip is 59803 I am about 2 miles from 59801 where there is a line of sight to the three digital stations I am trying to get. The channels are 8.1 13.1 and 36.1. Two are uhf and one vhf.

Thanks again

Hmm, interesting - Missoula, MT. Yep, you are not near a top 100 DMA city!

From antennaweb, for a street somewhere in your zip & plugging in a silly high antenna height, I get 4 stations:
* yellow - uhf KUFM-DT 27.1 PBS MISSOULA MT 94° 3.1 27
* yellow - vhf KPAX-DT 8.1 CBS MISSOULA MT 349° 13.9 7
* green - uhf KECI-DT 13.1 NBC MISSOULA MT 349° 13.9 40
* lt green - uhf KTMF-DT 36.1 ABC MISSOULA MT 349° 14.0 36
I see there is a Fox affiliate in Missoula, KMFF 17, but the FCC database only shows an application for a digital flash cut for their remote translator, not for the main station. But I also see that you have found the locals thread, so perhaps someone can help you find out what the deal is with the station or you can contact the station. The FCC database (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html) also shows some of the stations are at low power.

You are obviously in a challenging situation for TV reception. You will need the maximum height you can get up on a roof with a good medium to long range upper VHF/UHF antenna. If it was not for the mountain, I would suggest the Channel Master 4221 4 bay. Small enough to mount high up on a pole. But you may need maximum antenna gain for even a chance of success. Hope someone else can make a good suggestion for what might work for you.

The CM4221 is very poor at VHF-hi (channel 7). You would probably need a CM4228 to get that channel, or a VHF/UHF combination antenna.

Thanks afiggatt. Great information. Yes Missoula is not the center of the ota HD world.

I called the fox station and they do not expect to be broadcasting a digital signal until the end of next year. I have dish network for local stations now. As I understand it the digital stations for Missoula are not available on the dish. The dish signal is so compresses anyway that I would prefer the ota if possible. Is the CM4228 a posibility for me?

I would not call the CM4221 "poor" for VHF 7. While it is not by no means the best UHF antenna which also can get the upper VHF channels, I get good picture quality with a CM4221 for analog stations 7 and 9 from 16 miles away. I also get a digital VHF 12 station located behind the antenna from some 46 miles away. VHF 7 will propagate over a mountain ridge better than the UHF channels, so he is not likely to need a long range VHF antenna, but one with good UHF gain.

But, yes, the CM 4228 is better for long range and has more gain for upper VHF channels. But it has a much narrower beamwidth, and 667dark has a PBS station located some 100 degrees off in azimuth from the rest. The station may be close enough that the CM4228 will pick up the station, but it may not. The CM4228 is also rather heavy & large and will require a very sturdy outdoor mount to handle the snow and wind loads that one is likely to get in Montana. OTOH, that will be a concern for any antenna 667dark puts up, just more so for the CM4228.

667dark, in case you have not checked out this website, it has a lot of useful info on antennas: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html.

I recently (10/27) lost my local reception. I have a TERK indoor antenna, that up until now worked just fine getting the local feeds in HD. Now my TV just states that the signals are not available.

HELP, if you all can!

Is it just HD that you have lost? Are you still getting SD digital? Still getting analog stations?

Yes. Only HD is lost. Analog comes in.

I'm in the DC area and all the digital local stations are on the air. No problem getting them, although we do have heavy rains moving through the area. I would suggest you try a rescan with your ATSC receiver. Check the Baltimore-Washington locals thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=517400) if you are not sure about the status of the DC stations.

afiggatt--thanks. I also read back a few pages--it appears that during summer months, indoor antennae seem to work well. With the fairly drastic weather change over literally the past few days here, it doesn't surprise me. Unfortunately, I don't have any way to put in an outdoor unit.

Funny thing is that I have the same receiver (and problem) as the person who posted #5037 on page 168

Which model Terk antenna do you have? I'm wondering if your problem is that you had a borderline signal which dropped below the threshold with the heavy weather. There may be a better indoor antenna you can use. Or if you have an attic, put an antenna there. With a CM 4221 in my attic, the DC stations come in fine at 16 miles and the Baltimore stations come in pretty reliably at 43 miles, although WBAL 11 will suffer dropouts in poor weather. If you also provide your zip code, we can make recommendations for the antenna setup.

TERK HDTVA is the model. I never had an issue on any digital or HD channel until last night. Never a dropout, but now I get nothing. I did a rescan and got nothing. Pretty wierd. I am in Ashburn and not much further out than yourself. I have no attic as I am in an APT. Oh ya....20148

If the digital stations are still out, you should try to clear the ATSC receiver channel list. Disconnect the antenna at the TV or STB and do a full scan to clear the list. Then reconnect the antenna, check all the coaxial connections, and then do another scan.

You have the Terk copy of the Silver Sensor which is a good indoor UHF antenna. Better than most of the other Terk models. If you need to stick to an antenna which can fit indoors, the AntennasDirect DB-2 will offer better performance than the Terk. You will have to create a mount for it as it is sold as an outdoor antenna. If you look at the chart on the HDTVprimer website located here:http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html, you will see the DB-2 (line L) has 1 to 4 dB more gain than the Silver Sensor (I). Click on the links for the two antennas for charts and more info.

Well, it looks like its performance on VHF is worse than "rabbit ears" so I would call that a "not recommended" at least. Look at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

There is a section looking at the performance of UHF antennas on VHF. You will see that "rabbit ears" are shown with a gain of -2 to -6db on VHF-lo and around -6db on VHF-hi. The CM4221 numbers are 0db on channel 13, -18db on channel 7, and -25db or worse on VHF-lo. The antennaweb requirements for "yellow" channels are -15db on VHF-hi and -25db on VHF-lo. So the CM4221 is marginal on yellow VHF-lo at best, and certainly worse than "rabbit ears".

Of course the "yellow" category covers a very wide range of stations - if you have a high-power or close in station then there will be no problem with the CM4221 - if your station is at the extreme edge of "yellow" then you could have problems. And everyone's situation is different, so all these numbers are only approximate. I am just suggesting a note of caution when hoping to use the CM4221 for VHF-lo;
you might be disappointed.

And yes, you are right that moving to the CM4228 reduces the beamwidth and so would cause a problem if the stations are spread widely.

Afiggatt--
Thanks--I'll give the DB-2 a try. I just hope it isn't my TV tuner. Is there any way to verify that before I go through this? I only wonder about this because reception was perfect watching TV on Wednesday, then Thurs. evening we turned on the TV to crap reception in analog.