The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 198

Awesome. I really appreciate the advice.

I have the Directv 5LNB dish and would like to pick up more OTA HD channels with a DB4 or DB8 antenna that I plan to mount in the attic. My question is. I have a double coax cable running to the STB from the dish. One of the cables does not connect to the STB. Can I hook into this coax cable at the dish with a line from the antenna? If so, what would I need to make the connection?

Thanks!

Well, the Steathtenna there is priced at nearly $65.00 (including tax), and the one CM pre-amp I know of that they sell is well over $10.00. (They do carry a couple of other CM distribution amps, I know - but they are most certainly over $10.00, also.) And I think that even the cheapest full-size UHF/VHF model isn't much cheaper than the Stealth (the 3016?) - if it even actually is. You'd have to go there and price things. You might have to try without the amp first. Plus, you're going to need other installation hardware, remember.

But they are very accomodating, as far as returns go. I've done that many times there myself. Just keep the packaging intact.

I'm pretty familiar with your situation from your other posts, and I understand your hesitance to order online because of your reception troubles so far. If you have a Fry's in your area, they sell the 4228 for $50.00. They also carry the Stealth, and the special amp that goes inside (if you need it - although you can use any amp). I know that Menards sells a large, VHF/UHF Philips model. Home Depot used to carry a mid-sized RCA model, but I know the one by me stopped carrying it. Other than that, all I can think of is Radio Shack. Or Abt's Electronics, if you have one of those around.

I would just go with whatever was suggested to you as far as the CM models at Lowe's in the other posts (I can't recall which offhand). They are very easy to return to. Those guys that replied to you know their stuff pretty good - I would definitely trust them. The Stealthtenna is very easy to assemble and disassemble, if you wanted to just start with that. But if the Radio Shack U75R didn't do the job for you, I doubt if the Stealth will. I just tried both myself, and the U75R was definitely better, on distance, anyway. And the Stealth is ANYTHING BUT directional, if that matters to you. But, if I remember right, you are not that awful far from the towers at all, so anything's possible. You'll probably just have to keep experimenting.

You can connect the cable from your antenna to the "spare" cable using a barrel connector, just unplug it at the dish, but you should protect this connector from the weather using a cable "boot" and dielectric grease to keep the moisture out. Or if the "spare" cable runs through the attic make the connection there....

Just FYI, the CM4228 is a better antenna than the DB8 and is less expensive. Also if you have any VHF-hi band stations the CM4228 although (like the DB8) it is a UHF antenna has useful reception in VHF-hi, the DB8 is much poorer. And some of your UHF stations may be going back to VHF after 2009 when analog goes away. What's your zip code, it will help us give you advice on antennas....?

I am about 50 miles from both Philadelphia and New YorkCity (in Princeton, NJ). Do I have any chance of getting HDTV signals from an outdoor antenna at that distance? I want the PBS channel primarily.

(As of now, I am receiving fair-to-good (but far from excellent) conventional VHF analog TV from both places, with a very good directional rooftop antenna. NYC reception used to be a lot better when I got signals from the top of the World Trade Center)

I'm in central Connecticut at 06109. Thanks for any info!

Welcome to the thread!

You should be able to get UHF digitals (depending on their power) from that distance if you're on the rooftop. But use a good UHF antenna like a Channel Master or Winegard designed for picking up signals from that distance. For Channel Master, I'd use the CM 4221 or CM 4228. Go to www.antennaweb.org then plug in your address, and it'll tell you what to expect (and recommend an antenna type). But be aware -- antennaweb sometimes skews to the conservative side.

I just upgraded to a DirecTV H20 and the Slimline MPEG4 Ka/Ku dish, and only get a few local channels in HD from Portland, but not CBS or ABC. I have an el-cheapo indoor antenna that allows me to pick up KOAC out of Corvallis, and thats the only OTA signal I get right now.

Antennaweb says this for my location:

* yellow - uhf KOAC-DT 7.1 PBS CORVALLIS OR 247° 8.5 39
* yellow - uhf KVAL-DT 13.1 CBS EUGENE OR 164° 44.9 25
* yellow - uhf KEPB-DT 28.1 PBS EUGENE OR 164° 44.9 29
* yellow - uhf KMTR-DT 16.1 NBC SPRINGFIELD OR 155° 37.3 17
* green - uhf KEZI-DT 9.1 ABC EUGENE OR 155° 37.3 44
* red - uhf KOIN-DT 6.1 CBS PORTLAND OR 359° 62.3 40
* red - uhf KPDX-DT 49.1 MNT VANCOUVER WA 358° 62.5 48
* red - uhf KRCW-DT 32.1 CW SALEM OR 359° 62.3 33
* red - vhf KPXG-DT 22.1 i SALEM OR 359° 62.3 4
* red - uhf KOPB-DT 10.1 PBS PORTLAND OR 359° 62.6 27
* red - uhf KGW-DT 8.1 NBC PORTLAND OR 359° 62.6 46
* red - uhf KATU-DT 2.1 ABC PORTLAND OR 359° 62.3 43
* red - uhf KPTV-DT 12.1 FOX PORTLAND OR 359° 62.5 30
* red - vhf KOAB-DT 11 PBS BEND OR FCC Ext 96° 95.9 11
* red - uhf KLSR-DT 34.1 FOX EUGENE OR 163° 44.9 31
* blue - uhf KOHD-DT 51.1 ABC BEND OR TBD 96° 95.9 51

I'm looking at getting a chimney mount, a CM 4228 and a CM 7777 preamp and pointing it to the Eugene market so I can get the rest of the channels I want.

Will the proximity to Corvallis and the use of a preamp overload the other signals?

Should I run it into my Zinwell WB68? Will that allow me to tune the OTA signals from my H20 DirecTV box? Or do I need to split the signal where it comes out of the wall, and run it into the antenna input on my HDTV? Or run it direct to the TV?

The WB68 does not have an antenna input. The Ka band MPEG4 signals used by D* locals includes a 250-750MHz section that overlaps OTA frequencies. They cannot occupy the same cable before reaching the B Band Converter that normally is connected to the rear of the H20. A separate line for OTA until the Sat line reaches the BBC is required.

So, do I use a diplexer between the BBC and the H20 to feed OTA into the H20? Or just plumb OTA direct to my antenna input on the TV?

A recent problem has developed and I haven't been able to fix it. All of a sudden, I am having touble receiving some of my OTA locals. I know it not my antenna specifically because I can mov it and get a strong signal when I am pointing at a specific tower.

I have a CM 4228 with CM7777 pre-amp. I have removed one of the screens from the 4228 and up until a couple of weeks ago was able to get my locals.

Part of the problem is that my locals are about 120 degrees a part as follows:

FOX (19) and ABC (41) 4 miles at 168 degrees
NBC (23) and CBS (47) 16 miles at 288 degrees

It would be much easier to join two antennas if the lower channels were one direction and the higher ones the other, but that is not the case.

I am willing to try joining two antennas but am slightly confused about how something like a jointenna works. I see specific ones for VHF channels, but on ranges for UFH channels.

Any suggestions as to how to use two antennas with a jointenna to solve my problem?

Thanks.

a jointenna allows you to insert a signal from another antenna with a specific channel without interference. it can also be wired to be used as a filter attenuating a specfic channel about 20 db.

the vhf models are single channel models. there are 3 uhf models.

UHF Channels Model Number
ch14-29 cm0585-1
ch30-49 cm0585-2
ch50-69 cm0585-3

if you want to insert ch 56 for example you would order#cm 0585-3 for ch 56. jointennas are special order with a 2 week leadtime.

the issue to be aware of is that the uhf jointenna attenuates signals 5 channels either side of the channel you want to insert. If you want to insert ch 56 and you have a ch 54 digital, ch 54 will be attenuated.

to install, there are 2 inputs and 1 output
-antenna in for ch you want to insert (ch 56 for example)
-antenna in for the all channel antenna (cm4228, vhf/uhf combo, etc)
-out to tv.

see picture

at my home, use the 91xg for all channel uhf and insert ch 56 with a jointenna#cm 0585-3 tuned to ch 56. I use a 2 bowtie antenna mounted to the side of the house . The jointenna is mounted near the grounding block.

I also use my old hd8200p for vhf only and combine the uhf after the jointenna with a cm0549 vhf/uhf spliter/combiner, see pic.

works pretty darn good too. Insertion loss is only .5db to boot.

Both diplexers, combining and diverging, need to be between the BBC and the receiver. I'd connect the Ant leg of the bottom diplexer to the H20. It's handier having the OTA channels in the guide.

Hey guys!

I just bought a house. I noticed that there are two huge antennas on the roof. I guess they used these for TV in good old days.

I am planning to put up a new roof in a week or so. Should I get rid of those antennae or just leave them there. Do I need to put a new antenna for HDTV or I can get signals from this one ?


Also if I wanted the antenna go to more than one room, how do i do that?

appreciate your help

There is no significant difference between an old TV antenna, and a "digital" antenna. The new so called "digital" antennas are more likely to be UHF only since most digital stations are in the UHF band. Also, some of the new antennas try to maintain a more modern apperence and smaller size, often at the expense of performance. But other than that, the old designs are usually as good if not better than many of the "digital" variety even for digital reception as long as you do not mind their retro apperance.

The real question is what type of antenna do you have, VHF, UHF, or combined, and is it still in good working condition? Do you know how old it is? Does it look like it was properly installed with grounding blocks etc? Are any elements bent or missing? How is the lead in cable?

Antennas, wires and even the mounts do not last forever. The lower quality ones can degrade quickly when exposed to bad weather, so it is hard to say how servicable yours might be. It is also possible that it was never installed correctly to begin with which could be unsafe. It would be best to have someone who knows what they are doing look at it for you to see if it would be worth keeping.

the hdtvprimer website is very complete but is hard to read

there are other sites that are easier to read like stallions and howtoinstalltvantennas

I can give you advice based on your location and the results from antennaweb.org but I suggest you consult an antenna expert who lives in New London, he can give you advice based not just on the theory but on a knowledge of what the individaul stations are doing and what actually works in your area. His "handle" is tigerbangs and he can be contacted through the forum at http://www.highdefforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9. Suggest you start off by posting there and see what advice he can give you.

up in the north central united states we have our tv station's transmitting antennas at pretty large distances from us. The nice thing is that we have them all in line for the most part so just one big antenna is all we need.

whey are hdtv receivers so hard to come by now? i can't find any at best buy, walmart, sears, sams club, rex tv, or anywhere else! does anyone have an idea why this is?

Looks like I might be ordering a 4221. I tried the $25 radio shack yagi again along with the CM 3041 Spartan 3 preamp that was extremely discounted at my local Lowes ($4) I tried attic mounting since hardware for attic mount was $5 compared to $20+ for roof mounting. Also I don't have to deal with the time/effort/aesthetics of an outside antenna. I'm still getting 1 signal bar on my PC but am able to tune in all the channels in Sacramento (320 degree area) though I still get stuttering on occasion. Not sure if this is related to my tuner card or software. I'm using windows media center on Windows Vista RTM. I still prefer an attic mount and the 4221 is only about $10 more than the Radio Shack yagi so I think I'll try that. Anyone have any suggestions? Is it my antenna setup that's the problem? maybe my tuner card? Issue with Vista RTM and windows media center? Any help would be great!

I talked to a local antenna business today about getting the CM 4228, and he felt that would be sufficient for OTA from the Eugene, OR market without a preamp.

1. Cuz most of us who bought sets without ATSC tuners already bought an OTA STB if we wanted/needed one....
(and could dump it onto eBay if Time Warner Cable ever adds CW-HD).

2. Cuz HD SAT Rcvrs now include ATSC tuner and HD LIL channels....and SD SAT Receiver owners are dumping their old OTA STB's onto eBay as they upgrade to HD SAT.

3. Cuz ATSC tuner mandate forced manufacturers to INCLUDE it in new DTVs.

4. Cuz the government has funded the DEVELOPMENT of a mass produced, low cost OTA STB prototypes that would presumably be available for only $50, with $40 of that defrayed via a COUPON program....however, now we all know that the OTA STB's will be limited to low-rez output only and may (or may not) be carefully rationed to those most affected by the Feb2009 analog shutdown. But interest in new OTA STB development has been dampened due to the continuing uncertainty as to what will or won't be allowed in the specs--how the program will be administered--and not to mention trying to compete against what are now government subsidized OTA STB developers (LG and Thomson/RCA):
http://www.tri-vision.ca/documents/2...20Comments.pdf

Hence a separate OTA HDTV STB is a small, vanishing, niche market.

Suggest you consider an on-line order for the new Samsung DTB-H260F OTA STB:
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...sung+DTB-H260F

Firstly, thank you in advance for your help. What a great site!

I live in Western New York by Buffalo and Directv will not allow me to receive the HDTV feeds from the locals, so I would like to put up an ota antenna. Based on what I have learned thusfar, I have a printout from the AntennaWeb site as follows.

yellow - vhf WIVB 4 CBS BUFFALO NY 252° 15.9 4
* yellow - uhf WIVB-DT 4.1 CBS BUFFALO NY 252° 15.9 39
yellow - vhf WKBW 7 ABC BUFFALO NY 247° 16.5 7
* yellow - uhf WKBW-DT 7.1 ABC BUFFALO NY 247° 16.5 38
yellow - uhf WNYO 49 MNT BUFFALO NY 290° 5.5 49
yellow - vhf WGRZ 2 NBC BUFFALO NY 262° 11.4 2
* yellow - uhf WGRZ-DT 33.1 NBC BUFFALO NY 262° 11.4 33
red - uhf WNYB 26 TBN JAMESTOWN NY 251° 51.7 26
red - uhf WPXJ 51 i BATAVIA NY 74° 19.0 51
* blue - uhf WPXJ-DT 53 i BATAVIA NY TBD 74° 19.0 53
* blue - uhf WNYB-DT 26.1 TBN JAMESTOWN NY 251° 51.7 27
blue - uhf WNED 17 PBS BUFFALO NY 313° 34.0 17
blue - uhf WNGS 67 RTN SPRINGVILLE NY 223° 29.9 67
* violet - uhf WNGS-DT 46 RTN SPRINGVILLE NY TBD 220° 29.0 46
* violet - uhf WNYO-DT 49.1 MNT BUFFALO NY 290° 5.5 34
violet - uhf WNLO 23 CW BUFFALO NY 313° 34.0 23

I can do an external antenna without too much trouble.

Thanks for the thoughts and help!
Keith

I am an engineer at a TV station. The correct answer is VHF channels 2-6 are being taken by the FCC and UHF channels 52-69 are being taken back. Our channel 8 is the channel we are going to broadcast our HDTV signal on. Because of this reason, we are going to lose our channel 59 that we are currently using for our DTV channel. The reason we are choosing to use our current designation is that to broadcast UHF channels, the FCC requires a higher power output. This requires us to use very high power vacuum tubes and larger power supplies, filters, ect. The power requirements for VHF are lower and we can be solid state.

If you can provide your zip code, it is easier for us to look up the digital stations you might be able to get. First question is whether you are interested in the digital stations only or do you want to also get the analog stations that are at low VHF? Second, are you interested in only the Buffalo stations?

All of the Buffalo stations are currently digitally broadcasting on UHF. A check of the FCC spreadsheet for the digital channel selections after the 2009 analog shutdown shows the Buffalo stations, including WKBW-DT ABC 7, have elected to stay at UHF. You are 5 to 16 miles from the Buffalo broadcast towers and there are a few other smaller network digital stations on UHF scattered around you in azimuth. You could probably get most of the Buffalo stations with an indoor Silver Sensor UHF antenna. But if you have no issues with a rooftop mount and reliable reception for the digital stations is what matters, the Channel Master 4221 4 Bay bowtie UHF antenna is probably the best overall for your situation. The CM 4221 is around $25 plus shipping from solidsignal.com or warrenelectronics.com.

True, UHF channels 52 to 69 are being taken away by the FCC. However, VHF 2 to 6 is still currently reserved for TV broadcasting after the 2009 analog shutdown. While many stations have elected to stay out of the lower VHF channels, some 50+ stations have selected to digitally broadcast from VHF 2 to 6 after the analog shutdown. Real nuisance for those who will live in outer fringes of those stations because they will have to put up a very large lower VHF antenna whereas with only upper VHF and UHF stations, a more compact and lighter antenna setup is possible.

Obviously way too late and would reduce the amount the federal government expects to raise from the spectrum auction as the upper UHF frequencies are more valuable and useful than low VHF for portable communications, but a better long term solution might be to keep, say, UHF 52 to 54 for TV and dump low VHF altogether for digital TV. But the choices have been made and that is not going to change now. There has been speculation that we may eventually see several of the low VHF 2 to 6 channels being taken away, but as I understand it, it is only speculation at this point.

My zip code is 14167

why are hdtv receivers so hard to come by now?

Certainly all the reasons in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...57#post9145757 apply, but in addition:

After March 1, the DVD recorders are going to have ATSC tuners. Some of them will presumably output hi-def, thereby providing the functionality of an HDTV receiver, even though they can only record a down-rezzed version to the DVD. These DVD recorders won't cost as much as (DVD recorder + HDTV receiver).

As Joe Isuzu used to say, you have my word on it.

I had to enter a rather high antenna height for your zip code to get a list of the Buffalo stations. A lot of blue and red color codes for reception, despite being only 12 to 18 miles from the broadcast towers. However, the map that pops up for just your zip puts in somewhere in a large blank area, so the default location for the zip may be down at a low point. How hilly is your area?

I also did not get a Fox station in Buffalo to show up on the antennaweb list, but a check shows there is a WUTV-DT Fox 29 (UHF 14) which has a low power and full digital power entry in the FCC database. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WUTV and click on the FCC database link. Antennaweb is using the low power entry but the station may be at full power. Check with the Buffalo locals thread for WUTV-DT status.

With the color codes, I think you should go with the rooftop antenna. I still recommend the Channel Master 4221 UHF antenna if the digitals are all you want. Add a Channel Master or Winegard pre-amp later if you can't get reliable reception with just the antenna or if you have a long (RG-6) cable run.

Thank you in advance for your help. What a great site!

I live SouthEast of Rochester,NY - currently have Dish 622 and would like to put up an ota antenna for UHF locals out of Syracuse (Syracuse seems to carry more HD than the Roc stations according to a neighbor and TitanTv). Below is a printout from the AntennaWeb (zip code 14425):

* lt green - uhf WSYR-DT 9.1 ABC SYRACUSE NY 101° 66.4 17
red - uhf WXXI 21 PBS ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 21
red - uhf WNYS 43 MNT SYRACUSE NY 106° 57.7 43
red - uhf WSYT 68 FOX SYRACUSE NY 106° 57.7 68
red - vhf WHAM 13 ABC ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 13
* blue - uhf WHAM-DT 13.1 ABC ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 59
blue - vhf WTVH 5 CBS SYRACUSE NY 101° 62.1 5
blue - vhf WSTM 3 NBC SYRACUSE NY 101° 61.6 3
blue - uhf WPXJ 51 i BATAVIA NY 275° 34.5 51
* blue - uhf WXXI-DT 21.1 PBS ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 16
blue - vhf WHEC 10 NBC ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 10
blue - uhf WCNY 24 PBS SYRACUSE NY 101° 61.6 24
blue - vhf WROC 8 CBS ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 8
blue - uhf WUHF 31 FOX ROCHESTER NY 327° 17.7 31
violet - uhf W26BZ 26 MNT VICTOR NY 334° 7.1 26
* violet - uhf WPXJ-DT 53 i BATAVIA NY TBD 275° 34.5 53
* violet - uhf WNYS-DT 44.1 MNT SYRACUSE NY 106° 57.7 44
* violet - uhf WSTM-DT 3.1 NBC SYRACUSE NY 101° 61.6 54
violet - vhf WSYR 9 ABC SYRACUSE NY 101° 66.4 9

I would like to go with an antenna and preamp if required initially (for UHF only) - and later add a rotor if justified. Have been reading here and elsewhere that the 4228 and 91XG seem to be good choices, but am open to whatever will do the job. I have a neighbor using a TERK TV38 (with amp or Preamp?) and getting good reception from Syr. (though I don't need the VHF as he does). I do have a couple of questions:
1.- Will the 91XG be too directional to pick up WSYT - 68 - FOX at 5 degrees difference (at 60+ miles) if I point the antenna at the 101 antennas? (have a little concern with the wind loading on 4228)
2.- Will a single Maple tree about 100 ft from my house hurt reception in the future if I try to get the Roc stations?

Thanks,
Lyle...

Well this happened to me a second time. On Saturday December 2nd, I woke up to find that my antennas had been knocked down for the second time. The first time this happened was at the end of March 2006. I had to get 2 new antennas and a new antenna mast. I also managed to get a TB-105 support bearing. I had gotten the person who I bought my tower from (and who erected it) to install my 2nd set of antennas. He placed the rotator on top of the top triangle plate and did the whole set-up. However there was a problem with using the TB-105 support bearing - the 2 masts were slightly off so I had a problem rotating my antennas. They would rotate for a bit and then jam.

When they came lose this time, the antenna mast was still connected to the rotator (lying on it's side on the top triangle plate). The tower mast (which connected the rotator to the tower) had bent severely, causing the rotator with the mast and antennas to flip about 90 degrees. The good thing was since the rotator was still attached this kept the antennas away from the tower so they weren't damaged.

The installer came in on the Sunday a tied a rope from the antenna mast to the tower just in case (it was too windy on Saturday or Sunday to bring the antennas down). On Monday he came in and safely brought down the antennas with the mast and rotator. We discussed the new set up - moving the rotator inside the tower, mounting the Wade-Antenna support bearing on top of the top triangle plate, and placing another mast inside my mast to make it more rigid.

He waited until there was low wind day which was a week later (Monday Dec 11th) and got about 2/3 done. He came on the next day (yesterday) and finished it off. He told me that my rotator had died on him when he was mounting a bracket on it which would connect it to a new bottom triangle plate. He's selling me a used rotator (an older Channel Master unit that's suppose to be a heavy duty one. He states that the current Channel Master rotators are light duty and are not as good quality as the older ones since Channel Master has been bought out by another company).

Before he left yesterday, we synched the antennas to North and rotated them around abit. So no more rotating problems. However, I think there might be another problem. He mounted my VHF antenna (Wade VIP-307SR) lower, so it is about 1 foot above the top of the tower. I don't know if this is the cause or not, but I found I'm having reception problems using that antenna. Channels that I used to get, I'm having problems with. It could be the weather, since it's been overcast/rainy the last 2 days.