The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 4

Angelo,
Probably the biggest difference between the 4228 and the 4248 is weight and wind load. According to the gain charts, the 4248 shouldn't be as good on the lower channels. As you said, though, it seems to outperform it's billing by a bit. The 4228 will place significantly more load on your mast and weighs about twice as much. Another thing to consider about the lighter 4248: If it's not enough for whatever reason, you can always get another and stack them. It's very difficult to stack the 4228. When I decided my 4228 wasn't enough, I had to purchase two more antennas for stacking instead of one.

If you think there's little chance you'd every consider a stack, maybe consider another Yagi. The Antennasdirect xg91 as well as the Winegard PR-9032 are domestics that seem to rival the Euro imports such as Televes,
Triax, etc. MaxHD who posts at this site tested the PR-9032 against the DAT 75 (Televes) and felt they were about equal.

Charles

Angelo,
Go to http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBar...STS/index.html to see the
comparison test I was referring to.
Charles

Some night my CBS station registers in the 60s on signal strengths and some night it goes in the 30s at which point I get drop outs. Is that normal to have that much change in a local HD?

seadoo, it's helpful to post your city and channel, so that others in your area can comment...

I have some stations that only come in at night, others that only come in when the weather is just so, etc. etc.

The big factors in reception are distance from the transmitter, height of transmitter, power of transmitter, gain of receiving antenna, height of receiving antenna, splitters/multiplexors on antenna line, and topography between transmitting and receiving antennas.

If your antenna is indoors, it will get better reception outdoors. If your antenna is close to the ground, it will do better if you put it up higher. If your antenna is small (has low gain) then a bigger one will help.

Antenna Selection
http://www.antennaweb.org

Antenna Testing Information
http://www.atechfabrication.com/tests.htm

Tower Page - see N1LO's GUYED TOWER TOPIC SUMMARY
http://www.qsl.net/n1lo/tower.htm

Antenna Installation Guide
http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmig.htm
(Note that if a seperate ground rod is used for the antenna it must be bonded to the house grounding electrode system)

Grounding Satellite Dish and Lead-In Cables
http://www.mikeholt.com/news/archive...-2002-9-47.htm

Code Basics: Article 810, Radio and Television Equipment
http://www.mikeholt.com/news/archive...01-10-2003.htm

National Electrical Code - Search for "dish"
http://forums.nfpa.org:8081/necfaq/necsrch.htm

Antenna Grounding
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/hdrec...grounding.html
(thanks AVS Forum member greywolf)

Preventing Damage Due to Ground Potential Difference
http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm

PSIHQ - Grounding Requirements
http://www.psihq.com/iread/strpgrnd.htm

PolyPhaser Technical Information
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_technical.asp

FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

In addition to the tropo ducting caused by weather, ducting over water is easily caused by temperature inversions caused by the effects of warm water underneith colder air.

Need help in Chicago
Living in downtown Chicago.
I just hooked up a D*TV HR10-250 HD DVR. I live on the 49th floor of a high rise facing south. According to antennaweb.org all my VHS stations signals are coming from the Sears Tower at .4 miles and 35 degree compass orientation. All my UHF signals are at 1.1 miles and 206 degree compass orientation. Here's the problem. I have tried an un-amplified RS indoor antenna and then a Zenith Silver Sensor. I can't get WGN-TV DT which is on frequency 19 yet get a perfect signal from WMAQ-TV (NBC) at frequency 29 and WLS-TV (ABC) at frequency 52.
What's my problem? Too much signal, not enough, directional antenna? Do I need an outdoor antenna on my balcony? HELP!


__________________
gfitz

Given how close you are, the problem is likely multipath. I'd go to your nearest Radio Shack and buy a variable attenuator. You might also want to pick up a $2.99 bowtie while you're there. Their return policy makes it easy to handle if things don't work. Try the attenuator first. Experiment with various settings and various aimings of the antenna (it may work better pointed in a different direction than at the tower.) If that doesn't work, try the bowtie by itself. If you still get nothing, try the attenuator + the bowtie.

I live 15 miles NNE of NYC in Westchester County and I am using a Stealthtenna pointed toward NYC from the peak of my roof (30 feet up). My question is this: just how much of a problem do trees have in blocking reception of UHF (HDTV) signals?

Unfortunately for me, my nearest neighbor (line of sight) has a huge tree (at least 60 ft tall) amoung others, that my antenna "looks" directly through. Does this result in a large amount of signal loss? Or, are trees transparent to UHF signals? On my HDTivo I pickup Ch 11 at close to 80 (the best) but many of the other stations are much lower, and Ch 4 is at 4 to 10 (the worst).

Would a line amp help, as I probably have close to 75-80 feet of cable from antenna to HDTivo? Unfortunately, I have no where else on my property that I can see around this tree.

JBThompson,
Trees can definitely block UHF signals to some degree, but not as much as say a mountain or a building. The Stealthtenna is an O.K. VHF performer but pretty weak for UHF. A preamp (not a line amp) will only help if there is decent signal to begin with. You could try a preamp first (Channelmaster 7777 or Channelmaster Spartan II would be two choices for UHF/VHF) but you may find a better antenna will be necessary such as a CM 4221 which is a good medium range UHF performer. You can always continue to use the Stealthtenna as your VHF antenna. Both of the abovementioned preamps will allow for separate UHF and VHF inputs. The other option would be to go with the 4221/Stealthtenna using a vhf/uhf combiner without a preamp. You might even try the 4221 alone if your vhf channels are high band (7-13) as it will provide some vhf gain as well.

Whether to get the antenna first or try the preamp first is a hard call. I think with 80 ft. of cable you may need a preamp no matter what at least for UHF. The Spartan has less gain and might be better in your case with fairly close proximity to the towers (less chance for overloading the preamp).

Sorry, I can't be more definite, but alot of this is educated guessing and trial-and-error.

The reason to use the preamp instead of the line amp is you'd rather amplify the signal close to the source before it is attenuated by the coax run.


Charles

cpcat,

Thanks for the quick reply. I feel hopeful. And, I used the wrong terminology, using line amp instead of pre-amp. I would mount it at the antenna to provide better signal through to run of cable.

I have no interest in VHF channels in all I am looking to see are local HD stations, although the lowest for NYC is channel 12. I was recommended the Stealthtenna for HD/UHF. Guess some bad info.

I will first go with a new antenna for UHF. the SquareShooter SS-1000 has been recommended to me although, I am not sure if it is good for 20 miles?!? Do you know this antenna?

Thanks again!

cpcat,

I should have said 4.1 and 11.1 for the HD signals I am receiving. Channel 11.1 is on VHF 12, the best signal. Channel 4.1 is on UHF 28, the worst. The range I need to pull in is channel 12 to 56. Channel 2.1 on UHF 56 comes in strong too but not like 11.1 on VHF channel 12.

Huh?

Anyway, with ch. 12 as your lowest channel I'd bet the 4221 would work well for you. I don't know much about the SS but do know it's about 3-4x more expensive than the 4221. If you end up trying a preamp, you can get the Spartan at Lowe's (at least they carry it in my area). The 4221 is available at multiple online retailers and probably locally for you if you have a CM dealer. Lowe's doesn't carry it, as far as I know.

Antennasdirect has the DB4 which is a little fancier 4-bay (like the 4221) and has an integral PCB balun which is nice. It's more expensive than the 4221 but still considerably less than the SS.

Good Luck
Charles
Edit: OOPS I checked and the DB4 doesn't have the PCB balun, you have to go to the xg91 for that.

I live 30 miles north of Wilmington NC. (air miles)

I have an Zium Spirlateral Air Dish. Omni Direction

On analog I picked up poor signals beyond 65 miles.

I had Voom installed yesterday combined with my OTA antenna.

This is strange to me why but here goes.

I can not receive any of the Wilmington stations. Their Tower distance is between 32 and 43 miles.

I do receive the following stations perfectly.

WITN-7(NBC) and WNCT-9(CBS) same tower 56 miles NNE
WCTI-12(ABC) 44 miles ENE
WUNM-19(PBS) 38 miles NE
WPXU-35(PAX) 37 miles NE

The only one I need from wilmington is WSFX-26(FOX) 32 miles ESE
WECT-6(NBC) and WUNJ-39(PBS) same tower 36 miles SE

This sounds interesting. I have recently experimented with a small omni-directional antenna. While distant signals don't receive as well as nearer ones, I have found something interesting.

At least one OTA station (1 analog and 3 digital) channels that don't receiver well (at least the digital ones) in ANY direction. But I receive them fine on the less sensitive omni-directional antenna. The directional antenna may be either saturated with signal or is not stable due to multi-path. I can never get a decent picture anywhere on the compass.

The omni-directional antenna gets all 3 digital channels of this station fine. I have wondered if antennas coupled with the digital transmit/receive systems respond somewhat differently from analog signals to multi-path signals. Perhaps there are some other issues related to some sort of polarization I am not aware of...

I have searched the web for any info on 'spiral omni-directional antenna' and variations. I have not found anything along the lines if the model you spoke of or anything much directly related to television. And omni-directional antenna that can get some content out to 65 miles sounds interesting. Can you provide a link to something about that antenna on the web?

Making Post # 3 so I can post the URL for you.

The link for the company where I bought the Spilateral antenna

www.goxium.com

Though they use the terminology 'omni-directional' the Xium Air does not appear to be an omni-directional antenna... However, I may not understand their technology. Since all the stations you receive are more or less NE and the ones you don't receive are SE you might consider rotating the antenna about 90 degrees to the south and note what difference that makes to your reception (of all the stations).

The Xium 'Spilateral" appears such that it could be omni-directional...however the addition of the parabolic dish for the XiumAir model would tend to make me think it would be less than omni-directional

In analog it picked up various strength signals in a 360% and the ones that I pick up digital were worse on analog except for WCTI.

I have moved it in every orientation today. I lost one that I get now when doing that.

My thinking is that these stations have a lower ERP. I may add another amp though that may not be an answer either. The only one that I think I need is WSFX26 (FOX) Most of the Carolina Panthers games are carried over FOX.

I just wanted to to be rid of a rotor

I could add another 5 feet in elevation which would get it to 24.5 feet above the ground.

Honestly, I'm astounded you get anything with that antenna. There ain't no such thing as "spilateral" technology, and as an antenna design, the XiumAir is a dog. Even so, I wouldn't expect you to get WSFX at this time.

This information should help you understand why WSFX isn't coming in. 5kw is pathetic. (From the FCC Database)

WSFX-TV NC WILMINGTON USA (Digital)

Licensee: SOUTHEASTERN MEDIA HOLDINGS, INC.
Service Designation: DS Special Temporary Authority (digital)

Channel: 30 566 - 572 MHz
File No.: BDSTA-20020311ABT Facility ID number: 72871
CDBS Application ID No.: 598625

34° 13' 33.00" N Latitude
78° 55' 20.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization:
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 5. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 38. meters HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 43.6 meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 0. meters AGL

Yes, I tend to agree with you some what. I was pixielation and dropped signal on all OTA except 19 & 35.

I could probably do good except for #26 with a hi gain UHF antenna with preamp if needed with a rotor. Probably get Fox50 in Raleigh.

I guess the remote controlled rotors are not as worrisome as the old style.

I will have to do some research on this.

I live less than one mile from three HDTV broadcast towers in NW Washington, DC. Can I use an indoor antenna and which one would be best? WAF is involved. Attic mount is possible. I saw a Jensen amplified indoor antenna on Radio Shack website that looked pretty good.

Obie

Avoid all amplified antennas. You're too close for them to do any good, obie.

Try the Zenith Silver Sensor (Circuit City has it.) That's probably your best bet for an indoor antenna.

Rabbit Ears would probably work.

I purchased a Channelmaster 3020 and new digital controlled rotor today. I will try my Radio Shack inline 10db amp. I had good service years ago with this combination with a smaller antenna. I will do the installation later this week.

If this does not do the trick I will then try a 7777 preamp.

I just talked with Voom about my local channels and it is not my lack of antenna. The FCC has allowed the Voom receiver to have but one local market. Their approval of all available markets is probably in late 04 to early 05. Yuck-yuck

I just have the Greenville/Washington/Jacksonville local area though I am closer to the Wilmington area.

If anyone has more than one local market availability with Voom please send me a PM.

Your reception of digital TV OTA is just that, OTA reception. The VOOM receiver is doing nothing to disallow specific channels OTA. If you can't get it, it's because you're not receiving enough signal.

Charles

The Voom receiver according to Voom is not allowed to decode but one local market by order of the FCC

Do I understand why the FCC rules so? NO

No more than I can understand their position on true Broadband.

If you have Voom and you have more than one local market I would appreciate any of you let me know.

Thanks