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Integra Research RDC-7 => 7.1 upgrade/trade-in announcement? - Page 3

post #61 of 2166
Well, I guess that's an idea. I took pictures of the back of the RDC-7.1 at CES, but not good ones, since the unit was in use and in a rack with lotsa cables hanging off the back. Essentially, it looks like the back of the Onkyo and Integra receivers with BNCs where the speaker binding posts are on the receivers.
post #62 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by krassyg
Has anybody seen any pictures of the the back of the RDC-7.1? I have seen the DTR-10.5 and the TX-NR1000 backs and I would imagined the cards are the same, but I am curious to see the dual 7.1 Multi-Channel Preouts and the other goodies.

I have in my possession the official sales literature for all three of the IR products. If only I had a scanner. . . I can give you a fairly detalied description through. The cards look exactly the same as the back of the other recievers. There are 8 RCA outputs on the back bottom left of the unit, 8 balanced XLR outputs across the middle, 8 more RCA outputs near the right edge, and the power connector on the far bottom right. There are 11 card bays all the way across the back (starting at the left side) and IR, serial, and 12v trigger connectors on the far right side. I'll see if I can get something scanned if anyone is still interested.
post #63 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by Enigma
Steve,

Wow; is there any decent product that you are NOT a dealer of .
As far as sonics, what was your opinion of the previous RDC 7 in that regard, compared to comparably priced competition like B&K, Krell, Anthem, Bryston, Halo, etc?

I don't have all the lines but close. One of the benefits of living in MN is that it is hard for other dealers to block you out especially if you buy more than them. A way NOT to be biased I guess.... The best part of all is to be able to do an A-B-C-D-E-F side-by-side comparison. Would anybody be interested in a processor shootout in MN??????????

One of the tricks of keeping lines is not to giving comparisons in forums other than being general. As you might guess, I have my opinions... What makes sense for one person may not be the correct selection for the other but after talking to lots and lots of people signatures exist that many agree with. I told the truth a while back about a line (since then edited) and was terminated when the owner of the company read my post. It took 2 hours before I was terminated. It was a terrible product (that of course has gotten some great reviews).
post #64 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by SteveH
I told the truth a while back about a line (since then edited) and was terminated when the owner of the company read my post. It took 2 hours before I was terminated. It was a terrible product (that of course has gotten some great reviews).

I guess that's why you don't work for a magazine!
post #65 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by SteveH
I don't have all the lines but close. One of the benefits of living in MN is that it is hard for other dealers to block you out especially if you buy more than them. A way NOT to be biased I guess.... The best part of all is to be able to do an A-B-C-D-E-F side-by-side comparison. Would anybody be interested in a processor shootout in MN??????????


Steve,

I think EVERYONE would be interested in that. Maybe you could let a panel make all the comments and stay on the sidelines. I understand the "no negative comments if you want to be our dealer" logic.

Let me try to re-phrase my original question, though. I've read one poster's comparison of the Integra RDC 7 with the Anthem D1 (he was former owner of RDC 7, new owner of D1); his early impression was that the Anthem was more forward and the IR more "warm"; he also felt that the IR was better with 2 channel and the D1 better with HT; though not by a huge margin on either count. He did feel that the difference between the "warm" or "laid back" IR had a much different sound than the more forward or "in your face" D1. Do you agree with this generally, leaving aside any value judgements about which is better?
post #66 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by Enigma
Steve,

I think EVERYONE would be interested in that. Maybe you could let a panel make all the comments and stay on the sidelines. I understand the "no negative comments if you want to be our dealer" logic.

Let me try to re-phrase my original question, though. I've read one poster's comparison of the Integra RDC 7 with the Anthem D1 (he was former owner of RDC 7, new owner of D1); his early impression was that the Anthem was more forward and the IR more "warm"; he also felt that the IR was better with 2 channel and the D1 better with HT; though not by a huge margin on either count. He did feel that the difference between the "warm" or "laid back" IR had a much different sound than the more forward or "in your face" D1. Do you agree with this generally, leaving aside any value judgements about which is better?

You're probably talking about me... My comments on this forum described the first D1 unit that I got and which was defective. Anthem promptly replaced it. The replacement unit sounds better. The D1 is indeed more forward, has a clearer midrange and a tighter bass than the RDC-7. These is how I'd rate the two processors on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being highest:

2-channel:
D1: 9
RDC-7: 4

HT:
D1: 8
RDC-7: 7

2.0 and 5.1 analog ( DVDA, SACD)
D1: 8
RDC-7: 9

reliability:
D1: 7
RDC-7: 10

customer service/support:
D1: 10
RDC-7: 1

The low grades for RDC-7's stereo and HT performance are due to its compressing the sound, especially the midrange. Anthem's customer service is outstanding, Integra's is horrible.

R
post #67 of 2166
Raz,

Thanks, very perceptive of you . I was quite interested in the RDC 7.1 when it was announced, but with all these delays I'd kind of lost interest. As it appears it *might* be on the horizon again, I was trying to get a feel for how these two compared. The RDC 7.1 has some great connectivity points in its favor (not just 1394 and HDMI, but the number of digital inputs, the possibility of 2 separate 6 channel inputs, etc); with Anthem introducing the mod later this year adding 1394, HDMI, and video transoding the feature set is closer, but still favors the IR.

Of course, the RDC 7.1 could sound different than the RDC 7, but that remains to be seen (I believe it does have different DAC's).

Processing power would seem to favor the D1, with its dual DSP's; but I don't know how the one in the IR equates to the ones in the D1.

The major feature that both are missing is room correction; and I had read a 'rumor' that Anthem was looking into adding that farther down the road on the D1 as well, but nothing from Anthem themselves.

I really like Anthem's support grade; I would have expected that, based on the posts I've seen from owners of all Anthem products.

It will probably be sometime next year before I am ready to upgrade, so hopefully some of this will be sorted out (and maybe Steve can pull off the pre/pro shootout by then ).

Thanks for the evaluation.
post #68 of 2166
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Carlton Bale
I have in my possession the official sales literature for all three of the IR products. If only I had a scanner. . . I can give you a fairly detalied description through. The cards look exactly the same as the back of the other recievers. There are 8 RCA outputs on the back bottom left of the unit, 8 balanced XLR outputs across the middle, 8 more RCA outputs near the right edge, and the power connector on the far bottom right. There are 11 card bays all the way across the back (starting at the left side) and IR, serial, and 12v trigger connectors on the far right side. I'll see if I can get something scanned if anyone is still interested.


I'm definitely interested. If you want, mail them to me and I'll scan and post them Official sales literature is a good sign I think...maybe it'll ship in the not too distant future. One question Carlton - do they specify what the DVI or HDMI switching capability is in terms of pure i/o? Given all the time that's passed since the 7.1 was announced, I was hoping they'd do more than 2x1 (which I think is what they announced was back at CES...)



TM
post #69 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by Enigma
Steve,

I think EVERYONE would be interested in that. Maybe you could let a panel make all the comments and stay on the sidelines. I understand the "no negative comments if you want to be our dealer" logic.

Let me try to re-phrase my original question, though. I've read one poster's comparison of the Integra RDC 7 with the Anthem D1 (he was former owner of RDC 7, new owner of D1); his early impression was that the Anthem was more forward and the IR more "warm"; he also felt that the IR was better with 2 channel and the D1 better with HT; though not by a huge margin on either count. He did feel that the difference between the "warm" or "laid back" IR had a much different sound than the more forward or "in your face" D1. Do you agree with this generally, leaving aside any value judgements about which is better?

If I was in the marketing dept at Anthem I'd make sure my AVM30 and D1 sounded different. Yes, the D1 is slightly forward and clearer. I wouldn't say the 7.1 is "warm" though. It is neutral. I found the analog bypass of the Integra to not as good as even a B&K. Assuming they have "digital direct" type features on the IR unit, this will be a plus as the only reason why analog sounds better is because of the thousands of miles of DSP's that are need to go though even on large/stereo. Hence, I would not be worried about the analog bypass section as much.
I am convinced that even the D1 and the AVM30 will have its own fans and could rate the 30 over the D1 is depending on what is more sonically pleasing. Not many would have the courage to say this as the $5K+ unit must sound better than the $2800 unit correct??
All of these have good enough engineering in them to make them someones favorite. Many times things sound "different" not better. Unfortunately, I have not done a side-by-side demo with the D1 and the Integra. I'd like to do a Shootout with a couple others that I have not heard side-by-side before. I am sure the results will prove interesting to many.
That being said. I have the Integra on my short list for my next processor upgrade. If it sounds as good as its features, we are in great shape for years to come.
post #70 of 2166
If you have a shootout, I would like to show up with my D1.
NETHOMAS
post #71 of 2166
"the feature set is closer, but still favors the IR."

I agree. Feature wise:

RDC-7.1: 10
D1: 8

"I wouldn't say the 7.1 is "warm" though. It is neutral. I found the analog bypass of the Integra to not as good as even a B&K"

The RDC-7 did sound warm to me. Not as warm as a B&K but still warm. And I thought that its analog bypass was excellent, better than D1's.

A few months ago I talked to a guy who was a beta tester for the RDC-7.1. According to him the RDC-7.1 sounds better than the RDC-7 ( he agreed with me that the RDC-7 compresses the midrange).

A big plus for the Integra piece is its reliability. I never had a single problem with the RDC-7 and I expect the RDC-7.1 to be as reliable as the RDC-7.

R
post #72 of 2166
The RDC-7 also has dual processors, so that is a wash. Razvanel complains about the so-called compressed sound of the RDC-7, but I and others disagree completely. I agree that customer service has been less than stellar. The RDC-7.1 is a better thought out product, with more features than most, but we'll see about the sound. I especially want great DVD-Audio and SACD playback, with bass managment and speaker distance settings for both. Otherwise, I may look elsewhere.
post #73 of 2166
The RDC 7 has two main DSP's? As I understand it the Anthem D1 uses two processors identical to the one in the AVM30; so its got some room for future code additions. Didn't IR have to remove some functionality in order to add THX Ultra 2 processing? If so, that would seem to indicate that they are running out of room; and that's without PLIIx.

I think the key is total processing power, not how many. And I don't know enough about the RDC 7.1 to know how it compares. But its obvious that the D1 has considerable headroom, to add, say, room correction (as an example), since it has two of the processors that already run PLIIx, etc in the AVM30.

I'll have to go look at the press release again, and see if there's more detail.

EDIT: The RDC 7.1 press release does say "dual 32 bit processors"; but doesn't say what kind. The Anthem D1 says "dual 150 mip" processors, Motorola 56367.
post #74 of 2166
" The RDC-7.1 is a better thought out product, with more features than most, but we'll see about the sound."

Feature wise the RDC-7.1 is the clear winner. When it comes to sound I simply don't like the way the RDC-7 sounds. The ideal processor for me would be one that sounds like the D1 and has the features of the RDC-7.1.

R
post #75 of 2166
Thread Starter 
And costs less than a Yugo

TM
post #76 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by anthonymoody
And costs less than a Yugo

TM

Cost wise you'll probably be able to get the RDC-7.1 for 15 - 20% off MSRP. My favorite Eastern European car was the Trabant, it's a shame they didn't sell it in the US.

R
post #77 of 2166
Thread Starter 
I hear you Raz. One of the (many) reasons I enjoy a trip abroad is to see the many vehicles (and engines) we don't have the opportunity to purchase over here...

TM
post #78 of 2166
Is the analog bypass on the B&K Reference 50 available for all 6 channels or is it only available for 2 channels.? B&K owner manual is not clear on this in fact the AVM 20 manual also is confusing on that point.

How you would quote B&K analog bypass audio quality compared with the AVM 20 or AVM 30?

Thanks

Benoit
post #79 of 2166
Quote:


Originally posted by Tolstoi
Is the analog bypass on the B&K Reference 50 available for all 6 channels or is it only available for 2 channels.? B&K owner manual is not clear on this in fact the AVM 20 manual also is confusing on that point.

How you would quote B&K analog bypass audio quality compared with the AVM 20 or AVM 30?

Thanks

Benoit

I have not done an A-B comparison between the analog bypass so I cannot comment. I have heard peoples impressions but since I have not done the work personally, it is strictly hearsay. As far as the analog bypass. The REF50 and 50s2 have a 6 channel bypass (for 5.1).
post #80 of 2166
Back to the RDC-7 and possible RDC-7.1 trade-in; A customer service guy at Integra Research told me today over the phone that they are expecting the new products to ship in late October. While there was erlier talk of a trade-in, he did not know the current status of that possibility, but got my email adress so he could get back to me in a couple of days, along with whatever else he learned and could pass along.
post #81 of 2166
Since I cannot perform an evaluation of the Reference 50. They don't have any resellers in Montreal in fact nowhere in Canada. This is crazy considering they are reselling in a few asian contries.
post #82 of 2166
Very much appreciate the information here - as a current RDC-7 owner I am particularly interested in the RDC- 7.1 and whether they will offer the trade in program.
My recent email exchange with their customer support indicated a fall shipping date and no word on an exchange program - that doesn't sound so good.
Any sales literature would be helpful as a new owner of an upconverting DVD player - I am interested in HDMI video switching and especially HDMI / firewire SACD / DVD A one cable audio options.
post #83 of 2166
Do you guys think that the RDC-7.1 will be compatible with the Yamaha and Pioneer IEEE-1394 dvd players? I don't feel like spending the money for the Onkyo($2000) if I can get the Yamaha for $799 or the Pioneer off eBay for $300. I just need it for the audio, I have a media server.
post #84 of 2166
Thread Starter 
I hear you Raz, and don't disagree. That said, this has been a frustrating experience overall to say the least. We went down that path and after pulling teeth we got info that at the very least was premature if not outright incorrect. My money is currently on "no trade in" despite what Lincoln told so many of us months ago.

Also,IMO IR should NOT have announced the 7.1 in January to ship in April. Maybe, and I mean maybe, they held it up to do further testing of DVI and/or HDMI switching since several devices seem to have handshake issues. Maybe they held it up while some of that is (hopefully) getting resolved. Beyond that, this enormous shipping delay can most likely be explained by IR's desire to freeze the market at the price point. Other than the D1 it looks like they did

TM
post #85 of 2166
Does anybody know if the new version of Nettune can play back WMA lossless? I have a media server and I need to transfer about 1000 Cd's in either WMA lossless or wave files, if the RDC-7.1 cannot read WMA lossless.
post #86 of 2166
The guy from Integra Research did not tell me that the trade-in policy had been dropped, but just that he hadn't heard anything about it following the delay in producing the products. We'll see.
post #87 of 2166
Thread Starter 
Raz,

I hear you.

I just put in an email through their web interface. I'll see what comes of that, then I'll call.

TM
post #88 of 2166
Thread Starter 
Well, IR got back to me as follows:

"The new Integra Research models are in their final stages of testing and pre-production. They should be shipping in the beginning of November, according to the information that we have received from Japan. In regards to the upgrade/trade in question, we have received no word from Japan. The minute we receive any information, we post it on www.Integraresearch.com."


Early November is not too far off if the above is true. That said, what they said about the trade in does not bode well. Maybe they're hedging. We'll see I guess....

TM
post #89 of 2166
I also emailed IR again the other dayandthe answer came back from Onkyo support. Expect an update within 30 days on the IR website: the rdc-7.1 will be shipping in November ; and they didn'tknow about a trade in program but when word comes from japan it will be posted on the site.

I don't get a warm & fuzzy feeling about a trade but who knows.
post #90 of 2166
Thread Starter 
Sue!

Seriously though, I will do what I said I'd do way back when this all started: never buy another IR piece ever again, and do everything in my power - however large or small - to influence the purchasing decisions of others away from IR. Then I'll go buy another mfrs pre/pro....

TM
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