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Clarence's new theater plans - Page 2  

post #31 of 981
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by garyfritz
the CRTs are the ones that really *need* to be in a booth, since they're... generally noisier.
I'd generalize CRTs as quieter than the majority of dPJs. I think only the Sony VPH1292 is notorious for fan noise.

Quote:
You mean I can't know where to hang the PJ until I already have the PJ, and it varies from PJ to PJ based on the level of phosphor burn!? I thought I would build in a strong mount point in the ceiling, along with built-in wiring. Do I have to just guess, and hope the PJ I get can fit within reasonable distance of the wiring I run?
The calculators will probably get you within ~6"-12". So if you have a fixed mounting location, that might affect your actual projected screen size by ~6". Depends on which you're more flexible with. But don't finalize your screen masking until you actually select, buy, and turn on your projector. ;)

Quote:
Why does phosphor usage determine distance? Because of the brightness the CRTs can generate, or because burn patterns might restrict the size of the image on the tube, or...?
If you can increase the amount of phosphor you're using, say 10% more of the face, then your image will also be correspondingly larger (or brighter, if you keep the projected image size the same). But if you have a pre-existing wear area that you're constrained within, you'll need to account for that. What you don't want to do is decrease the size of the available phosphor you're using just to get a smaller projected image because you mounted your projector too far back, so the projected image is too large for your built screen.

Quote:
Are you *sure* CRTs are worth all this hassle!?!?? :)
It is for me. But I have no problems with anyone "settling" for a bulb projector. ;)

-Clarence
post #32 of 981
Quote:
Originally posted by ArtisTech
If you curve all the seating arrangements, then they will will be out of the doorway. What is the room size?
I still like ArtisTech's idea of a curved seating arrangement. It would give you some room between the seats and the door.

Many theaters do not have straight rows, but a slight arc to them.

Bill Dempsey
post #33 of 981
Gary asked:
> Why does phosphor usage determine distance? Because of the brightness the CRTs can generate, or because burn patterns might restrict the size of the image on the tube, or...? <

Because there's no zoom adjustment on the lenses. The only way to adjust the width of the image on the screen is to (a) change the PJ distance, and (b) change the amount of phosphor used. Since you want to maximize phosphor use (potentially hindered by existing wear patterns), that leaves distance as the prime factor.

If you wind up with a PJ with an uncomfortably small wear pattern (happens fairly frequently, when installed by those who don't know what they're doing), if the wear isn't too bad you can sometimes create a custom pattern, and "burn in" the unworn area to match... giving you back your full phosphor width. Kind of tricky, but has been done by Forum members successfully.

- Tim
post #34 of 981
Huh. I didn't realize CRTs don't have zooms. Guess it makes sense though, considering they'd need 3 of 'em. Just never thought of it. No wonder the mounting distance is so touchy.

Burning a custom pattern to even out your phosphor, yow! :)

OK, so it's gotta be in the room, probably a ceiling mount. Or is a table mount better/preferable/? Sure seems simpler. If the PJ is quiet, you could have it sittng right in front of you, maybe inside a hushbox. Any big reason to prefer ceiling mount, other than freeing up floor space (but with an 8' ceiling you couldn't really walk under it anyway) and getting the beam up so people don't block it? Since most of you guys seem to be hanging them, I assume there's a good reason.

Gary
post #35 of 981
OK, let me give it a shot without Visio. Might have to try laying my HT out in it later.

I've got a 16:9 screen, 96"x54". Bottom of screen is 26.5" from the floor. Top is about 14.5" from the ceiling or 80.5" from the floor.

My BD808, at it's lowest point, is 75" from the floor, similar to yours I think.

Your third row will be 15" (riser) plus 44" for 59" to eye level.

I don't think you will have enough angle to see under the PJ to the top of your screen and over the heads in front to see the bottom of the screen.
post #36 of 981
Clarence, that all looks awesome!! BUT, where is my guest room?? I told the wife i am moving to your house. Don't worry i'll bring all my toy's(lol).

Marc, looks like we have a place to crash(hehe)

All kidding aside that looks great if i can help in anyway let me know.

Carlos:D :D
post #37 of 981
This is no fair, you guys are all right next to each other and can go play in each others' HTs. I have yet to even SEE one !!
post #38 of 981
Thread Starter 
Carlos, you, Marc, and Bill et al are always welcome. Especially if you're handy with tools ;)

I plan on tricking Marc into teaching me all of his incredible focus skills. The movie's always big, the soundtrack's always thundering, and the refreshments are always cold.

Gary: it'd be a fun roadtrip from Colorado. If you're good with drywall, you can take one of my ECPs home with you.

Is everybody sick of my constant revisions?

Here's #7:

http://herndonrelay.org/avs/ht-07.gif

-Clarence
post #39 of 981
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Belcherwm
Now figure your sight lines to the top and to the bottom of your screen from each position. It's just not going to work with your screen size.
Not as bad as I thought...
- the projector is shown at a worst case 24" mounting depth. I think it should end up closer to 18"
- each of the seated mannequins are 6' 2" tall, my front 2 rows are typically filled with 5 to 8 year olds
- these viewcones are based on 4:3 aspect ratio, I think widescreen content would be minimally obstructed for all viewers
- the rows are staggered so you're looking between the heads in front of you

http://herndonrelay.org/avs/ht-08-viewcones.gif

-Clarence
post #40 of 981
Quote:
Originally posted by marcorsyscom
Yep. I plan on sticking with a painted screen. I have visions of having black side curtains for side masking and an adjustable top/bottom AR mask.


-Clarence
We think along very similar lines. That is exactly how I did my theater. To do the masking, I used (2) 1/2" standard electrical conduits with gearmotors to allow the masking to be controlled electrically. Picked up the conduits for a couple of bucks at Home Depot and the gearmotors for around $10 each off ebay.

It ended up working beautifully even better than I expected.

Here is a picture I took of the right side before I covered it with the curtain.
LL
post #41 of 981
And the same right side after it was covered with the black side curtain.
LL
post #42 of 981
Thread Starter 
Ooh, I hadn't thought of powering it...
For the top blanking I was just thinking of rolling black fabric around a 10' pipe and unrolling it to the desired mask. For the bottom I was thinking about a valance with pegs or hooks every 1" on each side so I could rais it up for bottom blanking.

Is your masking on the bottom adjustable?

Thanks,
Clarence
post #43 of 981
Yes, the top black felt is rolled along the top 10' conduit pipe. The second 10' (1/2"diameter) conduit is only for the bottom masking. String is spooled up and down for the bottom piece. The bottom piece itself is only a stiff horizontal light weight bar going all the way across the bottom with some black felt material attached. There is a far right hand string and a far left hand string which goes all the way to the bottom. The strings are covered by the black curtain. 2 gearmotors - the left one does the top conduit and the right one does the bottom conduit.

If you look at the close up you can barely see the right hand string.
post #44 of 981
Thread Starter 
OK... so as the gear turns, it lets the top fabric out to lower the top mask, while at the same time, winds the string to raise the bottom mask.

Very cool. Thanks!
post #45 of 981
Not quite. The top and bottom are completely independent of each other.

So I can lower or raise the top or lower or raise the bottom. They do not need to move together but they can if I want them to. The left gearmotor operates the top only and has nothing to do with the bottom. The right gearmotor is only for the conduit with the strings for the bottom. I have 2 spdt switches, 1 for the top and 1 for the bottom.

Its hard to explain maybe I can find some other pics.
post #46 of 981
Here is a pic of the left side. If you look close you will see that the gearmotor is only connected to the top conduit. Thats the conduit that rolls the top felt.

The bottom conduit right under the gearmotor is not connected to this left gearmotor at all. The bottom conduit is simply there to spool the left string for the bottom felt. The bottom conduit is only powered by its gearmotor which is on the right side and not shown here.
LL
post #47 of 981
Just a few other tidbits... Don't forget power runs for the rope lighting around the risers or where ever that may be.

Speaking of power, is the utility box/ service panel in the unfinished area. You'll want 2 twenty amp circuits pulled on 12/2 wire.

Actually you should ask Carlos what his feeds are, I know he's consuming some juice with his setup.

Party at Clarence's!!
post #48 of 981
Turn the layout 90 degrees( screen on wall of entrance door , go with two rows of six with curved rows for comfort( that many in a row you will like the view better with a curve). Put the PJ over the heads of the back row and go with single a 10" riser.

Art
post #49 of 981
Hey Clarence,

You can probably pick up quite a bit of clearance with your pj mount. I wanted to keep my pj as high as possible to allow me to continue using my garage as you normally use a garage. I bolted two 2"x1/2" steel bars on the bottom of my pj with counter sink bolts, and clamped them to the ceiling with two 1 1/2" pieces of pre-drilled square tubing. I mounted 1/2" birch plywood directly on the ceiling joist to handle the abuse of the pj being slid around during alignment. The 1/2" ceiling sheet-rock will abut the edge of the birch, which I'll cover with a small piece of trim. Total distance between the bottom of the pj and the ceiling: 1/2". I'm sure there's a way to get zero drop, but this is the best I could come up with.

http://www.dallasmusic.org/ebay/mount-2.jpg
post #50 of 981
Oh, and it could probably be made to look a little better as well. In the garage it doesn't really matter.
post #51 of 981
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn
Turn the layout 90 degrees( screen on wall of entrance door , go with two rows of six with curved rows for comfort( that many in a row you will like the view better with a curve). Put the PJ over the heads of the back row and go with single a 10" riser.

Art
I think the room's too narrow...

http://herndonrelay.org/avs/ht-09-art.gif

- that throw distance (11.5') only allows a 100" wide screen. A little too sane for me :)

- my theater seats are connected; I might be able to get a 2 or 3 degree arc, but not 10 degree shown here (and certainly not the separation shown here, since they share armrests)

- the 9' seating / 100" screen gives 1.08X (Phil would freak). Back row would be 1.56X (good)
post #52 of 981
I can't sit that far back anymore, but I like 2.0 best, which is why I liked the back row on your original design. I know Art is another guy that likes to sit close. For me real close is torture.
post #53 of 981
Thread Starter 
OK, so you'll like my current candidate:

http://herndonrelay.org/avs/ht-08-16x9-viewcones.gif

http://herndonrelay.org/avs/ht-08-top.gif

Thanks for the continued inputs.

We'll be on vacation next week (and I'll be picking up PJ4: the VPH1271), so enjoy the peace and quiet while I'm away (I'm sure I'll check in a few times :) )

-Clarence
post #54 of 981
Have a nice Vacation Clarence!!

Cliff
post #55 of 981
Have a great vacation Clarence--if that's possible. I think you'll go nuts without your AVS fix. Hell, I'm not near as addicted as you, but I still get a pretty good AVS Jones going if I can't check it on a semi-regular basis.
post #56 of 981
Yea, take your computer or we may have redesigned everything without your input :D . Have fun !

Art
post #57 of 981
As one who learned through the school of hard knocks, I would suggest that you consider hiring a pro such as Dennis Erskine. He can give you plans that will avoid dozens of problems that you wouldn't even think could happen. His site: http://www.designcinema.com/diy.htm

Good luck,
Dave
post #58 of 981
Clarence,

Have a great time. If Art re-doing it while your gone it will at least be an awesome layout. If anyone has not taken a peak at Art's new theater design you are missing something!! Art has gone insane just like me(lol). When you get back i'll go over some of the wiring with you and yes i can lend a hand , I have all the tools you would probably need for this type job and I know how to use them. Good with drywall as well.

Have fun

Carlos
post #59 of 981
> Ooh, I hadn't thought of powering it...
> For the top blanking I was just thinking of rolling black fabric around a 10' pipe
> and unrolling it to the desired mask. For the bottom I was thinking about a
> valance with pegs or hooks every 1" on each side so I could rais it up for
> bottom blanking.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks of cheapo solutions... :) That's exactly what I had thought of for a first attempt at top/bottom masking.

Clarence, I'm confused why you want top/bottom AND side masking. Don't you build the screen to be e.g. 4:3 ratio, then top/bottom mask for 16:9 or 2:35:1 or whatever? Or is the side masking fixed, to define the sides of your image in whatever size?
post #60 of 981
Enjoy the vacation.

Why couldn't you cut down the front row of seats? Make them a little lower to the ground which would change your riser heights?

Also where are your speakers going to be positioned? From the drawing it doesn't look like you'll have room on the sides of the screen.
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