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Behr "Silverscreen" Paint - Page 5

post #121 of 1439
Quote:
Originally posted by RalphArch
snowmoon
The PJ is ceiling mounted. Everything is definitely darker on my silverscreen. It looks like grayish paint to me. I was thinking of putting something like white opal pearlensce on in a light coat on top and seeing what that looks like before doing anything final on my big screen.

Whoa! Don't go there! Pearl and SS or any Grey works against each other to dull the image. It's been there, done that, and hooted off the Planet. In MMud, WOP is a deluted ingredient, utilized to help create a greater degree of translucency than a pure white paint offers. Quarts of WOP, Deep or Accent Base, and Ultra Pure White combined create a mix far less translucent than WOP alone. With WOP alone, the resulting "film" over the base coat acts much like diffuser, but one that has gone too far, unfortunately. It's like looking thru cheap plastic Food Wrap. Everything is muted and/or blurred as a result. Dead End City.

But..............., if you were of a mind to experiment anyway, spend the same amount and mix up a 50:50 mix of Behr Silver Metallic and the SS for your next coat. What you want to achieve it as much reflectivity as possible without creating a hot spot or sparklies. If it seems to go in the right direction, next time, go 2/3rd to a 3rd.

But keep in mind RalphArch, and everyone else, any Retro-reflective screen depends on correct projector position as much as anything else. If a PJ has a large offset, or the image is weakened by a off center lens, or with some PJs, even the difference between a Ceiling or Table mount can drastically affect the amount of brightness possibly available. Think in terms of aligning a glass mirror to any strong light source, There's the "BRIGHT spot", glaringly bright.

Now imagine a surface with many thousands of tiny reflective surfaces. Hit 'em at the right angle (...provided they're pretty much all on the same plane....) and your reflectivity coefficient will jump dramatically. If you take it too far, it's better to mute the effect with a pigment that is more passive, but reflects light accurately. Like White. But then, you have the issue of getting the right amount of white over the more highly reflective surface, to the point where you still gain from the top, but not at the expense of the contrast the bottom layer afforded

Hey, one of my previous best DYI screen applications is a pure Silver Metallic underlay (3 coats !) and (3) Top Coats of translucent MMud. A pretty labor intensive process, but it's main bent is to get all the brightness and color correctness that the white top coat can provide, but also gain deeper contrast from the reaction of the Silver Metallic layer beneath.

If mixing a $19.95 a quart SM Faux paint with a $10.00 quart of paint, and putting it onto any applicable surface that cost under $20.00 will even "possibly" create a great, cheap version of a Silver Star, then you gotta go for it.

But do not go with WO Pearlesence alone as a top coat. No sir.
post #122 of 1439
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
But do not go with WO Pearlesence alone as a top coat. No sir.

I too have tried one and two layers of WOP as a topcoat. It will produce a sheen and undeniable warm/hot spotting. Mixed into solution is the only favorable way to use it. MM's right on the money.
post #123 of 1439
Steve - can't turn the screen sideways due to its size and the furniture in front of screen. It actually is being supported by the two beds under my flat white screen


MississippiMan and CMRA -

Thanks for the heads up on WOP - based on comments bought some FAUX Pearlescent Sheer Metallic instead and will mix it with some SS (Only paint I currently have) for a second coat - will try a 50/50 mix as starting point.
post #124 of 1439
MMan and CMRA, you're the paint gurus. Maybe you can make some suggestions for something I'm trying to solve:

I'm building a curved screen for my CRT. Talking to other people who have made curved screens, it sounds like you want a highly reflective surface. Hotspotting isn't really a concern because of the curved surface. Rustoleum Silver is reported to work really well.

But since I have a CRT, I don't want a grayish screen, and I'm thinking the silver paint would cause some graying of the colors. I wondered if there's some kind of translucent white paint that I could layer over the Rustoleum to give a white surface but maintain most of the reflectivity of the silver? There will undoubtedly be some scattering of the light by the white surface, and that may be unacceptable -- since the screen is curved, scattered light will reflect onto other parts of the screen and wash out your image. Ideally what I want is a white mirror.

I'll try the silver first, by itself. But if it seems too gray, I wanted to understand my options.

Gary
post #125 of 1439
Try this.

Get a 4' x 8' piece of 1/8" Plexiglas Mirror.
Get a 4' x 8' piece of 1/4" Masonite hardboard
Glue the mirror to the hardboard.
Cut 11" off the end off the assembly with a 140 tooth Circular saw blade (a 16:9 ratio)
Take 2 - 2" x 4" s and glue the first 3" to each side of center of the Hardboard at the top & bottom to the 2" x 4" s
Take a 2" x 3" on edge and insert at each end between the 2" x 4" and the hardboard

Presto. One curved screen ready to accept standard MMud.
<<< 1 Qt. Behr Ultra Pure White >>>
<<< 1 Qt. Behr Accent or Deep Base >>>
<<< 1 Qt. Behr Pearlesence >>>
<<< 8 Oz. Distilled water - Power mixed - Spray or Roll >>

Apply at least 3 even "Light" coats, then shoot an image containing letters and numbers to ascertain if a shap focus it obtainable.

Of course you can do this with just the hardboard and paint it with MMud also, but you'd pass up any chance for gain from the "Silver Effect" the mirror offers standard Light Fusion.

I'm about to make one of these myself out of what remains of a First surface mirror so painted. Might be done by Tuesday.

Might be.

Get on your mark....................*
post #126 of 1439
I'll be eager to hear what you think of it! You gonna curve it?

You say spray or roll. The guy who used the Rustoleum Silver on his curved screen said it was critical to get a smooth coat with such a high-gain surface, and he couldn't get it smooth enough with spraying or rolling. He ended up making "the world's biggest paintbrush" with a long strip of foam stapled to a board. Load up the foam with paint and you can paint the whole screen in a single pass. I have a lot more confidence I can do a good job with that than I could with a roller or sprayer (which I don't own).

Gary
post #127 of 1439
Quote:


Originally posted by garyfritz
I'll be eager to hear what you think of it! You gonna curve it?

You say spray or roll. The guy who used the Rustoleum Silver on his curved screen said it was critical to get a smooth coat with such a high-gain surface, and he couldn't get it smooth enough with spraying or rolling. He ended up making "the world's biggest paintbrush" with a long strip of foam stapled to a board. Load up the foam with paint and you can paint the whole screen in a single pass. I have a lot more confidence I can do a good job with that than I could with a roller or sprayer (which I don't own).

Gary

Curve it? I thought I said that?

4' Foam Brush 'eh?

Bounds iffy at best . First you have to get the right type of foam. Then you have to load the right amount of paint on that Foam. Then you have to apply equal pressure over a large area and across a 7' + path.

One Pass? Be sure to Videotape that. And you know, a second pass doesn't count, now!

The overall suggestion actually smacks of someones idea to AVOID using a spray gun apparatus. To say that you cannot get a good finish with a Spray Gun is a nonsensical statement. To say, "I though of a good alternative to spending a lot of money." seems more on the mark.

Whatever else can be said, PRACTICE extensively before trying the real thing. The experience will either serve to train you well, or dismiss the application altogether.

When last I applied Behr Silver Metallic to Drywall, I used a 18" roller. But much like your suggestion, I wound up getting my best looking coat when the big 'ol thing developed a flat spot and I started sliding the loaded roller across the wall. I considered it a blessing at the time....AND an aberration. One that I would NOT count on to achieve a good finish on purpose. Besides, that SM coat received 3 additional Top Coats of MMud over it, so a few imperfections wouldn't matter anyway.

No, from experience, I'd venture to say that ONLY by doing a good job of spraying multiple coats in cross patterns and following up in the end with a light "Dusting Coat" will you achieve a truly featureless surface. And featureless it MUST be if it is to be Silver or Aluminum because even the slightest defect will stand out like it has a neon boarder flashing around a center message saying, "Hey Lookee here! See me! I'm a up!"

Just be sure if that other Fellow's suggestion does sound do-able, that he gives you plenty of good advice and instruction. If it can be done, and he has in fact done it, then that alone will assure you of the best possible chance of duplicating his results.

So..., gud luc ta ya!
post #128 of 1439
I experimented a little more based loosely on MississippiMan and CMRA comments - tried some FAUX Pearlescent Sheer Metallic (instead of WO - however I now realize the recommendation was for silver metallic, not shear) and tried a 50/50 mix as starting point.

Results as in attached photo showed not too much difference between plain Behr Silver Screen (small panel on right) and the SS Sheer metallic mix bottom - both enhanced my blacks over matte white top.

Since there didn't seem to be much difference I then tried a direct topcoat just to check it out - MM and CMRA were absolutely right - major hotspotting all over (why don't I listen)
LL
post #129 of 1439
I did go back and recover the screen another time - it was hard getting rid of the hotspotting. I tried spraying from a distance to get some texture and it appears that my 60/40 mix (sheer metallic to SS) works ok and is enhancement in black levels for my situation - see attached and following screen shots with matte white top and 60/40 mix below

I may try one more time - next with the recommended silver metallic vs sheer metallic, before painting my big screen. I even have the new gravity HVLP spray gun to try to do it right.
LL
post #130 of 1439
Last one unless the new coating is a lot better
Matte white top - ss/sheer metallic mix bottom

(BTW - I received recommendations to thin with flowtrol and also to use straight from can - I did just use the paint without thinning; although I did thin the primer a little)
LL
post #131 of 1439
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Whoa! Don't go there! Pearl and SS or any Grey works against each other to dull the image.

But..............., if you were of a mind to experiment anyway, spend the same amount and mix up a 50:50 mix of Behr Silver Metallic and the SS for your next coat. What you want to achieve it as much reflectivity as possible without creating a hot spot or sparklies. If it seems to go in the right direction, next time, go 2/3rd to a 3rd.

If mixing a $19.95 a quart SM Faux paint with a $10.00 quart of paint, and putting it onto any applicable surface that cost under $20.00 will even "possibly" create a great, cheap version of a Silver Star, then you gotta go for it.

Well I have tried it with a 60/40 mix of Behr Silver Metallic and Behr SS. The screen is a sheet of flat white plastic my son bought for making molds. The mix is a bit darker grey than SS alone as you can see in attachment. I am probably going to stop playing around, it wasn't a panacea - Bottom line is that the new mix; like SS alone, is better in some scenes and worse in others (compared with matte white) with my black challenged LCD projector - I can show screen shots either way but will follow this with a sort of neutral one showing the effect.

So I have decided to keep both screens. My matte white will stay as a big 4*3, and I will mount the SS/SM screen in a 16*9 format in front on the matte white's frame so I can remove it yet also have it available for movies etc where the blacks are more important to me than pure whites and vibrant color. That way I will also have either a white or grey surface available to play around with if that panamorph power buy ever comes through.
LL
post #132 of 1439
matte white top - ss/sm bottom (40/60 over a Kiltz II primer with ss pigments) I used about 1/2 of an HVLP gravity feed cup in the multiple coats
LL
post #133 of 1439
Quote:


Originally posted by RalphArch
matte white top - ss/sm bottom (40/60 over a Kiltz II primer with ss pigments) I used about 1/2 of an HVLP gravity feed cup in the multiple coats

Since you do have a HLVP gun, and obviously have spraying technique down pat, to acheive the very best "Paint" solution available, you should now spray at least a couple coats of Pure SM on your SS/SM screen, then top coat it with either true MMud, or another "High White Pigment" flat latex paint.

That's not much in keeping with the original focus in this thread, but your wanting great whites as well as assisting the CR of your sharp is a situation that calls for doing what's best, not easiest.

Hey, you almost over halfway done! Keep two screens around? neither affixed to something? You must have an understanding Wife!

You CAN expect the following should you go down the nest road.

1. The White topcoat will povide you with everybit of the quality whites you desire.

2. The pure SM underlayment will enhance the contrast of the PJ by assuring that such low to moderate energy contained within the light that strikes the screen surface will not be washed out by the brilliance that your Sharp delivers. Rather, the effect will be that your darks get darker, but not at the expense of your whites.

The above is well proven and documented, and seems very doable (...and justified) in your case. Only mirror based Light Fusion could do it better. Your going the pure SM/MM screen approach WILL satify your demands, I'm thinking.

Below, and over the next 3 posts are some examples of a SM/MM painted wall in action.

PJ was a SE 20-HD LCD w/ 1388x768 res @ 16:9 2200 Lumens Screen area is 10.5' diagonal, so unless your screen is at least 9' diagonal, the size difference between the two should easily compensate for the difference of luminosity between the 20-HD & your Sharp. (about 500 - 600 lumens)

I'm bettin' you won't find any fault with the white levels in these examples.
LL
post #134 of 1439
Check 'em out.
LL
post #135 of 1439
All these posted shots are from a screen project that was done in November, prior to the advent of Super Deluxe or Light Fusion.

Largest such screen so far attempted? 14' diagonal. Got pic of that one too if your interested?

Within the collage of shots below are two comparisons of the same shot, one taken in darkness, the other with a 100 watt lamp on a end table just 5' from the bottom right corner of the screen.

Also, a shot of the screen without an image, in ambient room light. You can see the SM undercoat around the edges.
LL
post #136 of 1439
Lastly, a shot of Gandalf & the Balrog fighting in the Mines of Moria.

Both balcks, and shawdow detail are very good, IMO of course.

But waddIno?
LL
post #137 of 1439
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Since you do have a HLVP gun, and obviously have spraying technique down pat, to acheive the very best "Paint" solution available, you should now spray at least a couple coats of Pure SM on your SS/SM screen, then top coat it with either true MMud, or another "High White Pigment" flat latex paint.

That's not much in keeping with the original focus in this thread, but your wanting great whites as well as assisting the CR of your sharp is a situation that calls for doing what's best, not easiest.

Hey, you almost over halfway done! Keep two screens around? neither affixed to something? You must have an understanding Wife!
.....


Thanks MM - I may take a break for a while as other things need fixing like the boat. I will make a note of your advice and remind myself after a while but I really am ok with the SS/SM screen.

Wife is ok with the screens - its really one big "Parkland-like" 80*60" matte white sheet on wall that I am just going to frame with black for contrast and then hang the 16*9 SS/SM in the normal letter box for an xga off the frame and mask the rest of the matte white. Most of my viewing is HD or DVDs so the better blacks are normally what I want; but will still have the big matte white 4*3 underneath for computer applications and digital camcorder etc..
post #138 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to update any interested parties of the current status of the 1st Behr-SS screen.

Well it's been almost 2 months now since my original Behr Silverscreen was painted. It's probably cured as much as it's going to at this point. The picture is still great. Nice fleshtones, darks are acceptable (to me). The gatorboard backing has really bowed now (I wanted to see how much before I frame it) to a point of a toroid screen. Ambient light rejection is acceptable too (for the price).

Q: I wonder if this is adding to the image quality I am seeing?

Q: Anyone with experience with curved screens wish to chime in on this one?

Next week I plan to mount it into a wooden frame in preparation for hanging. I'll take some photos of before mounting and after mounting (with and without images) to see if the "experience" changes. I'll also add some with copius amounts of ambient light too (it'll force me to clean up the room, and make the wife happy too).



Stay tuned......
post #139 of 1439
Oh...., that was Salacious Crumb, wasn't it?


Quote:
Originally posted by bcortez
Just wanted to update any interested parties of the current status of the 1st Behr-SS screen.

Well it's been almost 2 months now since my original Behr Silverscreen was painted. It's probably cured as much as it's going to at this point. The picture is still great. Nice fleshtones, darks are acceptable (to me). The gatorboard backing has really bowed now (I wanted to see how much before I frame it) to a point of a toroid screen. Ambient light rejection is acceptable too (for the price).

Q: I wonder if this is adding to the image quality I am seeing?

Only in the "brightness' category, I'm sure.

Quote:

Q: Anyone with experience with curved screens wish to chime in on this one?

Guess who? Ambient light rejection is the paramount advantage any curved screen brings to the Table. Screen combos that employ both the curved principle AND a highly reflective surface are among the very most expensive screens made. Most all are out of necessity "Fixed Screens", so they usually go into dedicated HTs, and Commercial endeavors.

The best news this can offer is a 'more than passable' screen surface that already has good ambient light rejection, and a curve that enhances that trait, but is still minuscule enough to not to add distortion to the edges of the image. And certainly not reduce viewing angle so severely that everyone has to sit on each other's laps' at dead center to get the very best of a good picture. Hey...! it happens!


Quote:

Next week I plan to mount it into a wooden frame in preparation for hanging. I'll take some photos of before mounting and after mounting (with and without images) to see if the "experience" changes. I'll also add some with copious amounts of ambient light too (it'll force me to clean up the room, and make the wife happy too).



Stay tuned......

Like a Piano, Bud

I'm already curving a large Light Fusion for a Client. Only 6 degrees lift at the edge at 48" out from center. ( approx. 4") Very little chance of distortion, plus some additional increase in ambient light rejection promises to be worth the effort.

I'll anxiously await your photo!
post #140 of 1439
I'll be eager to hear your results, MM. I've felt a full LF effort was beyond my meager painting skills, but I think I can paint a silver surface well enough for a curved screen. I'm planning to toss up a Parkland or something similar once my HT is built, just to get a picture on the wall. Then once I've nailed down the size & etc I'll work on building a curved silver screen.
post #141 of 1439
My frame's built and the fabric's stretched. I have a gallon of SS in the Ultra Pure White base. The fabric is an off-white cotton muslin. Should I spray a few coats of Flat White on with a sanding between before the SS or should I just start with the SS and sand between coats. I know the last spray isn't to be sanded.
John
post #142 of 1439
Thread Starter 
As promised, here are a few "before framing" shots. No projected image, just ambient light, with a can ceiling light above.
LL
post #143 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Here is a side shot demonstrating the bowing that occurred when the paint dried (only painted one side). Still, it performed wonderfully....
LL
post #144 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Here it is with my HTPC movie menu projected.
LL
post #145 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Hello, name's Bruce....
LL
post #146 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with 1/4 ambient light above.....
LL
post #147 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with 1/2 ambient light above.....)
LL
post #148 of 1439
Looks good! I have to figure out how to get my Kodak 3500 digicam to take pics of the screens I built using the SS. Even with the amibient lighting in the club, the colors from the videos, etc. just POP off the screen.
post #149 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with 3/4 ambient light above.....)
LL
post #150 of 1439
Thread Starter 
Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with full ambient light above.....)
LL
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