Behr "Silverscreen" Paint - Page 47

and who says cheap off the shelf can of paint can't do the job? lol

Question for those who are wiser than I....

I recently purchased an Epson HC-8100 to replace my aging Mitsubishi HD-1000U. I have been using a Parkland Plastics Poly-Wall screen (cut to 48" x 87.5") for much longer than I care to admit....let's just say that this current screen is the oldest thing in my theater and the last of the original components / factors to be going the way of the dinosaurs!

So, my crackpot plan is to marry the 8100 to a DIY screen that is going to feature a 106" diagonal (52" x 92") 16:9 screen, but will also be painted nearly the entire length of my screen wall to allow for zooming out of 2.35-1 cinema-scope films to be shown on a sort-of 125" diagonal (49.5" x 115") 2.35-1 screen. The screen wall is only 120" wide though; so, in essence I am going to turn the entire thing into a massive looking cinema-scope screen and add a pair of 13" x 54" velvet-wrapped, 1/8"-thick hardboard masks to the sides...I would also LIKE to have the masks attach to the wall magnetically, but the jury is still out on that...

I will be projecting from 14' 6" - 15" back (basically right above the seating of my second row; on the 18" riser). My primary seating will be in the Aura Bass-shaker fitted chairs at 10-10.5' from the screen.

I have no intention of even trying to add an A-lens to this set-up....seriously not going to pay more for a lens than for my projector!....but I would like to retain the option for the future and figure that at the very worst, if I paint the screen onto the wall and build the masks, the worst that happens is I decide I prefer the 16:9 image at 106" versus the hassle of manually zooming to the 2.35-1 image at 125"...

My main question is whether or not the generic Behr Silverscreen paint would be compatible with this idea or not? Or should I skip the SS and go with a modified SS or something else entirely?

Caveat - I am experienced at rolling and painting, but that is full walls and trim, not screens. I also lack the equipment to spray or to attempt such things...

I have a flat Navy Blue screen wall and lighter Tan - (supposed to be gold) textured walls (I am a Notre Dame fan and the idea was to match the theater/media room to their home uniform colors without any gloss - definitely NOT like the new helmets the team broke out in 2011!!!). I also have total light control in the room (no windows and I have run curtains in front of the entry doors that can be pulled closed for total light control) if needed.

I really want to maximize the image "pop" of the Epson and the 2.35-1 screen to get a jolt of "wow" back into watching movies in my theater room...after 2 projectors (IF-SP4805 @ 480p and Mitsubishi HD-1000U @ 720p) and 7 years, the "thrill" of the home theater has become too common place...I still love the room and having it, but its gotten to a point of familiarity that I am hoping to jolt like Travolta hitting Thurman in Pulp Fiction!

Any screen recommendations (DIY - and roller only!) that I should at least consider before supplying up and getting it going this weekend? Thanks in advance for any feedback or tips!

moostache2;

SS is a nuetral grey and a very respectable option and even more so with today's higher lumen pj's... however, going from a parkland plastics screen to a SS screen is a bit of a backwards step. for a long time, parkland was the truest hang and shoot option closet to a stewart 1.3... that was until they changed their formula to exclude the home theater crowd.

so if you are looking to take a jump in performance and still keep it simply and rollable... their's a solution with my screen name in it (maxx) that'll get you there. ask any questions you have in that thread... and you'll get plenty of help and advise along the way.

Thank you very much! I will check it out,

I also recently purchased an Epson HC 8100 but this is my first PJ. I'm in the finishing stages of my dedicated theater and I just wanted a little direction on my first attempt at DIY screens. I am planning to do a straight SS screen, 110" diagonal in a fully light controlled room. Planning on painint right on to the primed finished drywall. Main seating is going to be about 11' from the screen. I guess my question is, does this sound like it's on track? I've been reading about different mixes, substraits, etc for about 2 weeks straight now and I think my "keep it simple to start out" plan will be a good start but, what do I know?

What's to know?

SS is a very inexpensive, nearly neutral Gray paint that when married to a color correct 1800 lumen Beamer of a PJ, (...the 8100 calibrates out well...) it can easily deliver great imagery in modest ambient light. So you just know dark room performance will be great. Especially if you can mount the Pj at 11.5' from the Screen. Do that, and on Low Lamp and calibrated to the shade of Gray the SS provides, you'll soon see why SS has a great many staunch advocates.

If you spend a bit more than average, and have the SS mixed up in a high quality "Primer/Paint Type" Interior Flat Enamel...and do a righteous job of rolling onto a wall that is virtually flawless, You'll have quite a surprise in store.

Spray it on...and well....when a man loves a dirt cheap Drywall screen, he can't think of nothin' else. You'll want to tell the world what a good thing you've found.

MM thanks for the confidence boost! I've been considering getting that "No Name Sprayer" you came across and going with a spray option. I gather from your subtle hint that spraying even SS would be a worthy endevour? If so, when thinning the SS should I use the recommended viscosity test with the nylon filter you've suggested for the other mix formulas or would that be off base. Then, since it's a straight paint rather than a mix, would dusting and finish layers be necessary or is it a more simple process since it's a more simple screen?

I'm really looking forward to professing my love for my DIY from the rooftops!

...and turnin' yer back on your best friend if he puts it down?

Thinning is always required, and the viscosity test using the straining Nylon Mesh Filters is always the most definitive method to be sure viscosity is loose enough.

But...once thinned enough to produce the wet spray needed to produce a ultra smooth finish, care must be taken to not over-apply the paint. Otherwise it'll run like a Dog hit with a load of Rock Salt. So Dusters are always gonna be the most reliable method to completely avoid getting your arse shot to pieces.


3 initial Dusters (3' per sec from 14"), 1 normal coat (2' per sec from 14") a very light sweep sanding using a large Fine / Medium Grit Sponge, and a final Normal Coat.

Just treat the 'ol SS like you would a $200.00 a gallon Fancy Screen paint. Don't waste a drop on anything but effective practicing, and correct application.

And also....that's a truly smart move to consider making on the "No Name". Why, at $50.00 (+ $15.00 freight), even good 'ol bcortez would have to say your not running up the cost of DIY too high, all the while as you are giving SS a chance to really strut for you. Don't snooze though. The rapidly diminishing supply has me all jittery for those who might miss out on getting one. I just got another to replace one I left with someone who just flat out refused to let me pack it up and leave with it.

Got the "No Name" ordered and shipped! Thanks for the application detail clarification. I'll be giving a few practice runs on some scrap before I hit the wall. Then I'll let the SS do the talkin'.



It'll be my brother with an HD20 on mfg screen in a dedicated theater, if he gives me any lip

Remember, He ain't heavy...he's your Brother.

So if he gives you Lip, pick him up and toss him out the Door.

LOL! You can bet on it! He ain't but a buck fifty anyway! I wouldn't even have to stretch first!

projectorcentral reviewed this paint used for a projected image and had this to say about it.

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Many people are interested in gray screens and paints due to their increased black level. So we started our evaluation with the popular Behr Silver Screen formula. We painted a test board and mounted it in front of the Studiotek 100. Illuminating these two surfaces with a variety of test patterns and video clips revealed significant differences in contrast and color balance.

The one advantage the Behr Silver Screen had over the Studiotek 100 was black level, which is expected from gray paint--the darker the screen, the darker the black level. In scenes with a black background and white highlights such as rolling credits, the paint showed a higher contrast image and a much more solid black. The Behr Silver Screen is the perfect solution for people who watch rolling credits. Unfortunately, that's not what 99% of one's viewing subject matter consists of.

The Behr image was 27% dimmer than the Studiotek 100. That, in itself, is not a problem if you have a small enough screen or a bright enough projector. But the Behr Silver Screen kills color saturation, and it appears to reduce vibrancy in the warmer end of the spectrum. This should not be surprising. Imagine, what do you get when you mix gray with yellow? You get a grayish yellow. If you mix gray and blue you get a grayish blue. But the compromise of the yellow is more noticeable.

On the Behr gray paint, flesh tones looked horrible, appearing dirty or ash-colored in comparison to the Studiotek 100. Red and yellow color saturation is the most muted, and white highlights appear as subdued grays. Overall, the Behr Silver Screen paint does not deliver a balanced image. It certainly is not showing you what the projector is putting out. On its own, due to its increased black level, it may look fine if you don't have anything to compare it to, and the deep black creates an impressive sense of contrast under the right circumstances. But it is not a paint we would recommend for optimum home theater performance.

Gray screens were invented to compensate for the low contrast projectors of years past.

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Pretty much exactly what was discovered almost 10 years ago at my shootout.

Now if one starts scrolling backwards even in the last few weeks I read..

"SS is a very inexpensive, nearly neutral Gray paint " from MississippiMan

"SS is a neutral grey" From PB_Maxx

So who is steering you in the wrong direction and again ... WHY??

When we had this at the shootout the same comments were made by fellow AVS members. You were told that it was a conspiracy. WHY??

Here is a project for someone. Go back and read all the attributes made about this screen and line it up against ProjectorCentral com comments. Somethings not quite right.

This screen is far from neutral. You don't need a spectrometer or colorimeter to figure this out. For someone self proclaiming to be a genius why does the conspiracy theory the only way to ever resolve these issues.

Is someone being helped when someone doesnt even know what a neutral screen is?

Keep drinkin the dull poorly saturated dirty blue ash colored Koolaid.

Can someone pm me where the people that were working on solutions went to?

wow. talk about taking everything i've ever said about SS completely out of context!?!

i have never been a advocate for silver screen. ever.
i do however, respect this thread, it's content, the thread starter, and the folks who happen to like silver screen.
beauty is in the eyes of the beholder... and it is subjective.

the quote from the projector central article is purely subjective and lacking in data.
it does however, reflect MUCH of what i've said over and over concerning SS... from black levels, to flesh tones, to white levels... it is pretty much spot on.
while i do respect the users of this thread... they very well know that i do not and have not ever recommended it as a home theater screen.
i have said all along that there is something inherently wrong with SS because visually it's performance is actually worse, as in darker than what it's level of grey would suggest.
i've also said and shown with screenshots that SS lacks black level detail... but worse yet... overall detail and sharpness... as if the image was defocused.
but it is not my place to come to this thread and bash everyone over the head with it.

if they have a light cannon and this is their choice... while i've always tried to steer them from it... but respect their choice should they go that route.

subjectively, i may not find certain aspects of SS appealing or visually nuetral..
but as for it's objective RGB data... as tested by Behr Labs...
Behr Labs: 205 206 205

to the SS folks, my apologies.

posts deleted

if the bickering continues, you will be asked to leave the thread

I also tried the SilverScreen route and tried saying that it was not a good option for a projector screen. Very poor performance in my tests. And MAN, did they ever come down on me hard in these forums for saying such a blasphemous thing! lol

I respect the tests and opinion of Projector Central. Good work.

where's the link to this review?

did they reviewed other gray screen materials? they did publish any data?

this statement did peeked my interest: "Gray screens were invented to compensate for the low contrast projectors of years past."

i guess screen manufacturers should stop selling gray screens.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/paint_perfect_screen_$100.htm

Much of that article was focused on what the reviewer felt would be best, and truthfully, little credence was given any other DIY solutions. It was obvious that they /he wanted to focus his efforts on a White Reference Screen, and that's exactly what he did. In that respect the article was a valuable asset, and gosh...but I can't even count how many times I've referred members who only needed a White Screen to that solution. (...but I always suggest spraying it...)

In fact, it's unclear exactly what/how the SS Mix was made. If the older Behr Flat base and the original years-old SS formula was used, absolutely it would be a darker, more light-gobbling surface with a larger degree of color shift than the formula now widely accepted as "Silver Screen"..

And also truthfully, what a reviewer like Art would feel acceptable is/can be quite removed from what a Noob DIY would find perfectly acceptable. bcortez himself has taken great pains from the beginning to elaborate on the fact that SS is no "World Beater" and something that was intended to be inexpensive and easy to do as a started project.

That hasn't changed, but what has changed is the uptick of higher Lumen PJs that were not available when this venerable Thread was first authored. Much more acceptance of the performance potential is now warranted. It's still not "the best" Gray Screen solution by any stretch of reason, but it does not deserve to be ignored either.

For the record,I don't / won't hesitate to advise someone considering SS to look elsewhere if I feel such would be in both their best interests and within their DIY capabilities and/or budget. But just the same, if both their need and personal expectations are low, I won't arbitrarily try to talk someone out of it either, and if that is the direction they wish to take, they'll get just the same degree of help if asked for that they would when doing more advanced DIY Screen applications.

Grey screens still serve a purpose. It depends on what you are trying to achieve and the limitations of your room environment and vagaries within a total projection system. I make recommendations based on the basis of the projection system and this includes the walls, ceiling floors which may be reflecting light. If you have a bat cave with no ambient light and a high contrast projector then going with a grey screen is going to distort the fidelity of the image. When someone is trying to feed you something non neutral then just use some common sense. In the case with this screen if you look up the make up of the paint you will find what pigments are used directly from home depot that carries the paint. If you do a bit of research on how the pigment is going to react to light you will discover why what Evan writes in his article makes common sense and is NOT in fact subjective. I do not consider this a grey screen. or a neutral screen.

I consider this to be a painted surface that is reflecting a blue/yellow image.

Point noted.

We'll let them calibrate their screens as they all intend to do anyway.

Lets move along now....nothing else to see here.
SS advocates, current and future will appreciate it.

People can do whatever they like. I don't think people need to be directed or herded like sheep. Its an article with information about data on this screen. The article is not going to get deleted from ProjectorCentral dot com. How would someone come to the conclusion that no one wants to make a comment about it. When someone comes on here and has made numerous posts on the article and says ok I said all I need to say about it so just read my posts and move along and keeps posting on the other thread regarding the article I find it troublesome. Is this a one man show here?

In the interest of clarity I am just reflecting on what I am reading and its just my opinion in a general sense of trying to not suppress opinions. I have asked repeatedly for any data on claims made and its apparent that no data is going to be forth coming.
Its more normal to share information and gather data to go on a path of enlightenment. So that being said anyone thinking there is a direct dialogue between myself and you is doing so as a draw on your imagination. If someone wants to engage personally please pm me.

I may have missed this in another comment but what's the mix? 70% Behr Silverscreen and 30% ultra pure white?

If your trying to make "pure" SilverScreen, there is no "Percentage" because SilverScreen is UPW tinted to that specific color.

If what you are asking about pertains to using SilverScreen "diluted'"with additional UPW, the adding 25% additional UPW would certainly lighten up the paint. As to how specifically "Neutral" the resulting paint mix would be is subject to a bit of guesswork. (ie: conjecture)

Great thanks for clarifying!
Edited by Wincaps - 7/23/12 at 9:37am

where do you buy the gatorfoam?

Juan,

Welcome to AVS's DIY Screen Forum!

Now..................
Put down that "Mountain Grown", and focus those dilated eyes.

It's called "GatorBoard", but it is "Expanded Foam" in make-up. (...Don't fret...many people make that slip...)

A word of advice. Unless it's your only choice, Gatorboard carries with it a couple particular risks it's more sturdy Brother Sintra doesn't.

1. It's a much less denser "Foam" subject to Creasing, cracking/breakage if bent past a certain point.
2. It's soft surface is laminated with a Matte White Coated "Paper". It will dent pretty easily, and the dent doesn't pop out because it consists of crushed Foam Cells.

What all this means is that if GB is chosen, you lose a big advantage than many DIY Screens have over their Mfg Cousins (...far removed ...) The surface of virtually every Mfg Screen you can project upon / through is subject to permanent damage.
GB can be repaired...much in the same manner as Drywall can be, but with Sintra, you'd have to try to scratch the surface (...as in displace material, not paint...)

So get Sintra...or any similar Expanded Foam Board that is "NOT" Paper laminated, nor has any tactile surface (ie: smooth is best)

You asked where?

At Plastic Sheeting Supply Outlets.

The two predominant ones are Piedmont Plastics and Laird Plastics. Between them the make sourcing Sintra and other substrates possible in virtually every state. Go to either or both respective Websites and click on "Locations".

Beyond that, if your City / State doesn't have a Branch of either, look instead for Commercial "Sign Shops" in your area as those are the Businesses that draw from the inventory the Plastic Sheeting Supply Houses maintain.

Ask them for Expanded White PVC sheeting in 6mm 4' x 8' or 6mm 5' x 10'. They will know what your talking about, and while they may not carry "Sintra", both they (...and the Supply Houses...) often carry the same stuff only under different names / Mfgs.

wow this is quite a thread.....for what its worth i painted my drywall screen with the SS and it produces a decent picture especially when the light creeps into the room. i did it because i wanted a fast cheap screen to test the concept of the theatre room and to make sure the projector placement and sound set up was appealing, i figured it was a no lose situation and i could tint the remaining portion of the $25 gallon and use it as a primer/base coat for the rest of the walls. so after reading all of the thread it seems that the SS is about 90-95% of a pretty good screen? is that about correct? thks bob

Probably closer to being 90%.

You have it right in determining that SS is a quick, easy, and inexpensive option. Over the many years of it's existence as a popular application on this Forum, a great many have chosen it and found it to be very proficient at doing what a sub-unity gain (-1.0) Screen can do. SS always does it's best when adequate lumen output is available from the PJ (1000 lumen minimum good....2000 lumen + excellent)

Still, there has always been those wishing to make it into something akin to SS + Steroids.....a sort of "Barry Bonds Certified" screen, one that takes you to another level of performance without too much effort.

But that was never, nor is it now in keeping with it's original intent, one that you have already seen, acknowledged, and embraced to obvious good effect.

So it boils down to this...dependent upon your Projector (which is?) and your Screen's final size projection, the PJ's throw distance as relates to screen size, and your room's viewing environment (lighting & room colors) , and lastly how good the screen's surface will be (made of?), SS might still be wholly acceptable.

Or not even close to what you might need and eventually demand out of a screen.

You've taken the first tentative steps toward becoming a HT Enthusiast, and most i9mportantly have done so along with asking questions in advance of making decisions that might be costly or in the least a PITA to alter. That shows the best promise you could hope for at this point.

Provide us your wish list of what you want out of your finished Theater (..we can poke our noses into more than just your screen business... ) and if your budget and demands can (or must) embrace SS as a screen app. you will be told so in no uncertain or biased terms.

Frankly, one of the consummate joys of DIY'ing is getting results that far outstrip the costs involved. Effort? Well that can be different, because "DIY" doesn't specifically mean hardly having to do anything at all.

Would a high-quality primer/paint type Interior Flat Enamel for mixing with SS include Behr Ultra Pure White 1050? Or do you know of something better I can get (from Home Depot)?

That would do. The Enamel tends to produce a tighter, harder surface finish and so does have the tendency to reflect more light.

But if you include some "glitter or sparkly things".......?