Fargo, ND - HDTV - Page 2

Ugh,

I used to complain about living in Winnipeg! It is sad that they, through network feeds via satellite or cable are able to get all the major networks in HD. Why the process of obtaining waivers for these channels isn't easier - I don't know (at least until stations are up to speed). A two year wait for FOX at this point inthe HD game is simply unacceptable.

Michael.

Attention Vikings Fans:

Next Sunday night's Vikings-Saints game will be on ESPN-HD, with a scheduled start time of 7:30pm. This is the only Vikings game that is scheduled on ESPN-HD all season, and probably the only chance for those of us in the Fargo area to see the Vikes in HD until next year.

If you can, find a way to take advantage of this opportunity, be it through CableOne, a satellite provider, or a friend's house who receives ESPN-HD!

Yeah, I was going to post something on this as well - I'd also recommend taking this opportunity to invite as many friends or enemies as possible over to show them what HD sports can look like.

Perhaps we could find a way to invite the station managers of Fox, CBS, and ABC somewhere to watch?

I got the Moto 5100 HD box from CableOne yesterday and hooked it up in preparation for the ESPN HD broadcast of the Vikes on Sunday night. I had the Moto 2224 box before that they issued for regular digital cable. I am using a front projector to throw an 80" image up there. Two things I noticed:

1) All the regular channels look considerably more muted, soft and out of focus with this new box vs. the old one. I am hoping I just got a bad box and am going to swap it out at lunch.

2) I connected the new HD box via component connection to my projector and tuned in to ESPN HD which is channel 452. I watched some of the Louisville-Miami college football game last night in HD. To say the least the image is jaw dropping PBS HD is also on that plan but the image is not the jaw dropper that ESPN is.

I can't WAIT for Sunday night and will be watching everything I can on ESPN HD this weekend. Going to the ESPN web site and clicking on the ESPN HD link will show which broadcasts are actually being shown in HD.

Cheers! Go Vikes!

Congrats gottahavapj, and welcome to the world of HD. The more people that see HD, especially the jaw dropping picture on ESPN-HD, the more we can get pressure to get more HD programming added. Even though PBS-HD isn't quite as "spectacular", it is still head and shoulders above SD programming. I have the 6208 DVR-HD box, and I also see a "washed out" quality to analog & SD digital channels. I kinda think it has to do with the up conversion to 480p on a SD picture, and just the flaws in SD picture quality. Once I saw HD, anything else just isn't the same. I would love to be able to watch "American Chopper" in HD on Discovery HD. Maybe someday CableONE will add Discovery HD Theater.

Can't wait until Sunday night, to see the Vikes in HD. Gonna be AWSOME !!

Thanks dandeson-

I took the first Moto 5100 HD box back to CableOne this afternoon and swapped it out for a new one hoping that I just got a bad box and a different one would help the "soft" picture. Rats- it did not. I will be enjoying ESPN HD over the weekend and returning the HD box next week. I don't understand why an older Moto 2224 box connected via SVideo would generate a considerably sharper picture than a new 5100 HD box connected via component. I also tried connecting that one via SVideo with no better results, disappointing. I suspected the same thing dandeson did that it was converting SD to 480p and this was causing the softness. I found a user manual on the Moto web site and figured out how to get into the user menu. It already had the 4:3 override setting to 480i which then allows my projectors scaler/deinterlacer (it's got a good one) to massage the signal. When I set the Moto box to 480p the picture was slightly worse yet. Bottom line is I won't pay an extra $5 a month for a cable box that produces a poorer image on 96% of what I watch on cable just for the sake of an occasional HD program I want to see.

I'll sure enjoy Sunday night though

Cheers!

Mmmmm..... Vikes in HD!!!

Well, I filled my basement in an attempt to educate the FM area on what HD looks like. Unfortunately, no station managers showed up. :-(

I too picked up a Moto HD unit from Cable One for the weekend and my HD channels (all 2 of them) looked great. However, all SD channels < 100 appear in black and white when viewed over component or s-video! When viewed over coax I have color but it's all messed up, fading from green to pink and sometimes it eventually finds a happy medium that's almost watchable, but very fuzzy.

I'm convinced this is a bad box so I'll try swapping it out with a new one to see if that helps. Either that or I'll just return the box and go back to SD TV until Fargo decides to actually start broadcasting HD OTA.

Yep, I had a few guys over for their first taste of HD Sports as well. While I also had no station managers, I did drop the old "call your local affiliates" hint a few times (actually obnoxiously so). General consensus from all involved was the "wow" factor that I expected.

I explained that it definitely was more the HD signal than the TV - I told them that you can get some pretty good "wow" from a fairly inexpensive rear projection TV as long as you're feeding it a HD signal. Now if we could just get some more HD signal in this town...

2 words........Dish Network

You don't necessarily need a RPTV anymore either. You can drop a digital tuner card in an existing PC for $200 or less. That will give you record and playback capability of the digital signal. Most modern CRT's or LCD's should be able to handle the HD resolutions.
You can see some of the current options here:
https://www.digitalconnection.com/st...20TUNER%20CARD

This one http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro.../fusion3qt.asp can even work with some Cable companies.

later,
Gary

Here's the latest info from WDAY.....

A couple of weeks ago I sent the following message to WDAY's station Manager:
Tonight (Monday) I'm watching bits of Monday Night Football, and like every one of their broadcasts, they promote that their broadcasts are available in High Definition resolutions. Tonight, they even had an exec from the FCC on during half time to talk about HD/digital television and how the game was being broadcast in HD and the many advantages of viewing the game in HD resolutions.
I have all the necessary equipment to view HDTV. I can receive your digital signal. You are supposed to be providing the ABC customer with HD resolutions.
Why can't I, the ABC customer, get the HD signal from WDAY?
Why is WDAY not providing the best possible picture to it's customers?

A week later, after I had to send the above message a second time, I finally got a response. I sent a follow up, stating I would like to post the response here. It's been a week, I haven't heard from him, and I'm tired of them ignoring customers, so here is the station managers response to my email:
The FCC has issued a report last week which I understand has set July 1, 2006 as the date WDAY-TV6 must be broadcasting in the digital format. The move to digital has been and continues to be a moving target in regards to regulations, dates, formats and expense.
At this time WDAY is preparing to make the move to digital. The technical issues from tower structure strength, signal coverage, channel selection, network satellite feeds, microwave studio to transmitter links are many issues which must be resolved to make digital a reality before the July 1, 2006 deadline set by the FCC.
The new digital format is in it's first stages of development and the options must be researched thoroughly. The expense of transmitting pass through network digital programming may be in the millions of dollars for WDAY TV-6 and the cost leaves no room for mistakes, we must get it right the first time.
The FCC allows WDAY-TV6 and most small market (100 plus DMA's) television stations to legally broadcast on a digital channel in the way we are today. WDAY is working to meet the deadline of July 1, 2006. I understand you would like to be able to view Monday Night Football as well as other programs in HDTV and ask for your patience as we continue to work toward the transition to digital.

Here's part of my follow up to the station manager after receiving his response. I have not had the questions answered and it's been a week without getting a response, which unfortunately, is not suprising :
I would like you to clarify something from your response. My questions are referring to HDTV, not DTV. It seems like when inquiries about HDTV are made to the local stations, responses are consistently vague, and most of the time will only use the term DTV. We both know that HDTV is digital television, but digital television is not necessarily High Definition Television. While you state that WDAY must broadcast in a digital format prior to July 2006, you didn't state if WDAY intends to provide the HD resolutions passed through from the networks.
When WDAY is broadcasting in the digital format by July 2006, will WDAY provide the FM customers HD resolutions of the digital signal? i.e. will WDAY provide 720P or 1080i signals to it's customers or will they only provide standard digital TV, which is only 480i?

I also sent a link to this thread to invite a representive to comment and provide information regarding their status.

Anyway, that's the latest from my interaction with WDAY mgmt. Not a very positive experience, but then again, I didn't really expect much given other's experiences.

later,
Gary

Did any of you get an email from iwantmyhdtv.com recently?
I just received this, so thought I would post it in case anyone wants to send them their story:

Can't Get HDTV? Tell Us Your Story!
Have you heard about the latest in reality TV? The reality is that tens of millions of Americans can't get their HDTV!

As you may know, recently released data from the Digital Transition Coalition shows that the state you live in is one of the most underserved areas in the country when it comes to receiving network digital signals.

What Can You Do?
Tell us your story. Reply to this email and let us know what you are facing and how being left behind in the digital transition impacts you. Please be sure to include your name, phone number and the city where you live when you respond.

Wanted to buy a new HD capable TV but couldn't get a signal? Seeing the ads from Fox about the World Series in HDTV but you can't see it?

Your story may be able to change someone's views - and perhaps change the outcome of this slow moving digital transition being held up by broadcasters around the country.

Thanks for sharing your story and for doing your part to bring Americans one step closer to HDTV!

--------------------------------------
I think iwantmyhdtv is sponsored by Dish Network.
The reply to address for this email is: Alert: HDTV [alert@iwantmyhdtv.com]
The subject line was: Can't Get HDTV? Tell Us Your Story!

I'm sure you can send a "reply" if you have a story to tell.

Yup, I got the same email.

What's there to tell other than "we don't have it"?!?

Does anybody know if Fargo stations are giving out waivers for distant HD networks via satellite?

If I knew I could get waivers for Network HD on satellite, I would switch to satellite. That is the only reason I have been hanging on to CableONE, in hopes of WDAY, KVRR, KVLY, KXJB getting their HD signals going soon (some year)!!

The response from WDAY ... "The new digital format is in it's first stages of development" ... what is that??? Let's see, ESPN, hmmm, I think HDTV is pretty well figured out. And with FOX doing 6 NFL games every Sunday, yea, it is figured out. It is just WDAY doesn't want to spend the money to broadcast the ABC HDTV signal. What we need, is the FCC to get rid of the obsolete protection rules, and allow some competition. If another station could come into Fargo, and offer the ABC HDTV signal, I would bet money that it would get WDAY moving a little faster. Right now they know you have to get your ABC programming from them, and you can't do anything about it. If we had free enterprise and competition in the market, it would move HDTV along so much faster. I am just so frusturated over the lack of HD programming in Fargo/Moorhead. That with the fact the CableONE doesn't offer Discovery HD Theater, or HDNet, just bugs the heck out of me.

Just my 2 cents

According to DirectTV, if Fargo networks were to grant waivers we could get CBS/NBC HD over satellite. Fox HD is coming soon. The guy I talked to actually sounded pretty convinced that I could get a waiver as long as I tell them I would only use the distant network for HD programming, still getting local news etc from them.

You can either have DirectTV send out a request for a waiver or you can give them a call yourself and ask them to fax DirectTV approval. I haven't actually tried this yet and don't have too much confidence that they will actually approve it.

The other problem is that the distant networks are limited to New York or LA. If only we could get Minneapolis HD via satellite!

I hang in the digital projector forums here at AVS quite a bit. It was maddening to have a dozen people in there all writing around the first week of the NFL season- "did you see the game on Fox in HD on Sunday? Awesome picture" Some of us inquire about how these people are receiving these signals only find out that it was free OTA in many places, even in a rural Pennsylvania town in the middle of nowhere. And then to find out it's two years out here... ya...

Vikes on ESPN HD Sunday night was most excellent although that box is going back to CableOne due to inferior picture on the SD channels compared to the old digital box.

Cheers!

[quote]Originally posted by glura

Here's part of my follow up to the station manager after receiving his response. I have not had the questions answered and it's been a week without getting a response, which unfortunately, is not suprising :
I would like you to clarify something from your response. My questions are referring to HDTV, not DTV. It seems like when inquiries about HDTV are made to the local stations, responses are consistently vague, and most of the time will only use the term DTV. We both know that HDTV is digital television, but digital television is not necessarily High Definition Television. While you state that WDAY must broadcast in a digital format prior to July 2006, you didn't state if WDAY intends to provide the HD resolutions passed through from the networks.
When WDAY is broadcasting in the digital format by July 2006, will WDAY provide the FM customers HD resolutions of the digital signal? i.e. will WDAY provide 720P or 1080i signals to it's customers or will they only provide standard digital TV, which is only 480i?
QUOTE]

Well, it took 2 weeks and a second email (reminder) to get an answer to the HD resolution question above. Both times I've emailed the station manager, after days waiting for a response, it has taken a second email to get any kind of answer. Apparenly, customer service isn't too important at WDAY.
Anyway, here's the station manager's response in regards to what resolutions they will provide the customers (you guys are going to love this response):

Gary,
The answer to your questions have not been finalized -it will take more research on our part to before we can announce the the exact details on the build out of the new format.

Thank you,

mark prather


I guess I would interpret that response as "We aren't going to do HDTV, we are only going to provide the minimum required by law".

So, I wonder how much research they actually do there or how much has actually been done? I think the only research done is how many waivers they can file and how long can they delay the move to digital, which they've figured out to be July, 2006.

later,
Gary

I wonder if it's a lack of cash or a lack of education. Heck, I'd volunteer my time for free if it meant getting some straight answers. Maybe we need to hold a "What is HDTV?" conference and invite all the local station managers!

I see that TNTHD has been added to the program guide (ch. 454) of my cable box, though it still shows "Not Authorized" on the channel. I read that TNT will be doing all of their NBA games in HD, including pre and post game shows, this season. I sure hope they get the channel turned on by Tuesday, which is when the first TNT double header games are. I have never seen basketball in HD, so I am kind of excited.

Sweet - good find on that one. I'll have to keep an eye on it over the weekend. I'm kinda glad that the Wolfies are the darlings of the NBA these days - should be quite a few games on national TV for them this year...

Now if we could just FSN North before the Twins next spring as well (although I haven't heard how much the Twins are going to jump on the HD bandwagon next year - I think the only games that were telecast this year on their HD network were away games...). I do hear that FSN North broadcast a lot of Wolves last year in HD...

For the love of GOD, can anyone tell me on this mess of a web site where one could find any information about HD programming? http://www.tnt.tv

What a disaster of a site. I feel like the first (and only) time I walked into an Old Navy store...

Yea, the TNT web site sure doesn't give much info on HD programming.

If CableONE could add FSN-HD, that would be wonderful. I have yet to find a 2005 HD schedule for them, as to which Timberwolves games might be in HD, and of course next summer and Twins games. Twins in HD on a regular basis would be just the best thing they could do.

It looks like TNT has the Timberwolves game next Thursday on their schedule.

So it looks like TNT is now up and broadcasting. Not much of interest to me on the station except NBA - I try not to watch reruns of ER and NYPD Blue and TV edits of movies don't do much for me.

Timberwolfies are on tonight though in case anyone is flipping channels. Will be my first taste of basketball in HD.

One thing that I noticed about their 4:3 programming - it looks like they do a combination of cropping and "smart stretching" (edges stretched more than the center of the image). Looks kind of goofy to me. I'm sure there's lots of discussion on the HDTV programming forum about that...

Has anyone heard any updated information on KVLY & KXJB getting their HD signals up and going? I wonder if they are still on track for sometime between Thanksgiving and early spring?

Thanks Brian, for the good news update. Glad to hear KVLY is getting close, and also that they are willing to provide information on their status. Let's just hope the weather holds out for their transmitter and antenna install.

Well, if anyone's interested here's an email from KVLY. It doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know...

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Johnson [mailto:rogerj@kvlytv11.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:20 PM
To: Paul Brambilla
Subject: RE: Digital TV

We are working on HD. Will not be on by year end. Next year some time. Thanks. Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Brambilla
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:15 AM
To: rogerj@kvlytv11.com
Subject: Digital TV

Hello Roger,

I found your email listed on the KVLYTV website under the Engineering
section and thought you'd be a good contact for my question.



Rumor has it you're working on upgrading your hardware to transmit
digital TV (possibly HDTV?). I was told that weather permitting you
hoped to have everything up and running by year end. Well, the weather's
been pretty good! Would it be possible to get a status update?



Thanks!

I just wanted to add a couple of things to this thread. First, I contacted the local stations a while ago and received the same information as everyone else - channels 4 & 11 expect to be broadcasting HD in the first quarter of '05. WDAY is still "investigating the new technology". I didn't contact Fox.

Second, for those of you that have HTPCs, CableOne's HD programming can be received using a Fusion HDTV card (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro.../fusion3qt.asp). ESPN is channel 22, TNT is 67, and PBS is 64. The various audio channels and the Pay-Per-View preview channel is also available. For those of you not familiar with the Fusion card, it is not recognized under MCE when used for receiving cable transmissions and the app used for viewing TV is flaky. I haven't recorded anything yet, but it supposed to be possible. There are a lot of threads in the HTPC forum if you are interested in more information.

I hear through the grapevine that the city of Fargo is doing surveys about continuing their relationship with Cable One - they may also have plans for some "town hall" meetings to discuss as well.

I think it would be worthwhile to use the opportunity to air some grievances about our Big Four networks as well - while I'm not going to sit and defend Cable One to my death, I'm far more disappointed that none of the locals are providing any sort of HD right now.

That's all.