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Rochester, MN - HDTV - Page 99

post #2941 of 3306
So how were you picking up KTLK? What receiver/antenna? Overload type can also change with receiver.

AM is useless in most urban environments. Heck, the lower half of shortwave is too. After 10MHZ, things open up a bit.
post #2942 of 3306
I moved the receiver to it's "permanent" location today and I would have to say I am very pleased! I have a build in set of cabinets in my living room that someone had previously put speaker wire and strung those to different locations throughout the house and had RG59u strung to that location.

Getting all stations I want in pretty well.... Seems like I get KTLK better in the evening but I haven't tried it in the early morning. Also 107.7 comes in "better" in the permanent spot but again this has been only this evening. I get 93x out of the cities better then 107.7 which is kinda sad, for advertising sake. Oh well

Now on to getting the HD channels from KTTC, KIMT, KAAL, KXLT, KSMQ

Thanks for all your help folks and back to the question on a good antenna for Hi-VHI and UHF combo. I am willing and able to have two antennas up on the roof, one for HD-TV and one for FM. I am thinking about getting something similar to that was talked about earlier. Then do something about a combo antenna for Hi-VHF and UHF. Trying to avoid the combiner unless you TRULY believe keeping this antenna is worth it (I had some of the aluminum "runs" fall off while moving it from the one house to this one )
post #2943 of 3306
(They're called elements FWIW)

No. Ditch the CM antenna.

Did you read my post ..particularly the point about null points? That's why 107.7 is trash. If you aim it east, I bet money you'll get 107.7 just fine.

I think an Antennacraft FM-6 or Winegard 6055 would work for FM. That Winegard model looks a little small for my tastes.

I'm re-thinking the TV thing a little. What's your tree cover like? What kind of a view do you have to the south (and possibly the east if you want LaCrosse)?
post #2944 of 3306
By the way, What's this?:


It's in my basement and I know it's (obviously) some type of splitter. I guess I am asking if it's a better "quality" splitter and would help in splitting an antenna signal, or if no matter what, splitting degrades a signal (which I assume is correct.)
post #2945 of 3306
Model 475C

4-Way Splitter

Winegard Company Burlington, Iowa.

Hmm... looks like a splitter to me.

An old splitter at that. I have a two way model just like that one that came from our previous 70s era house. If you pull the back off, you can see the wiring inside.

I'd replace it with a new one just to be safe. Keep it though. The component f connectors could come in handy if your into electronics (IE, old FM tuners have a 75ohm screw. With a few minutes of modification, you can install a coax jack and solder it to the 75ohm lead. Volla! It's 21st century-proof)
post #2946 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

(They're called elements FWIW)

No. Ditch the CM antenna.

Sorry
Quote:


Did you read my post ..particularly the point about null points? That's why 107.7 is trash. If you aim it east, I bet money you'll get 107.7 just fine.

I think an Antennacraft FM-6 or Winegard 6055 would work for FM. That Winegard model looks a little small for my tastes.

I'm re-thinking the TV thing a little. What's your tree cover like? What kind of a view do you have to the south (and possibly the east if you want LaCrosse)?

I did read your post I just find it sad that they would make it so difficult to pull it down but I guess in all vehicles I have been in 1077 comes in great in Roch so what do they care about homes. I have a "regular" FM radio with a short antenna that also doesn't pull it in either.

Regarding trees for TV; I have a couple evergreens to my east so I actually think LAX is out of the question and I don't really care if I do. And to my south my neighbors have a few mature trees. (why we liked the neighborhood ) West River Parkway is to my east then the scumbro river Just wanna get Roch locals. So I think a "cheap" one may due, just wanna get that hi-vhf since I have read so many have trouble with it.

I was at Fleet Farm today (to look) and they have a couple of those RCA antennas. Don't know the models but there are 2 types there. One for $80 and one for $70. Are those "decent" for pulling in Roch? or should I stick with solidsignal?
post #2947 of 3306
My whole point with 107.7 is that it's mostly your antenna working the way it's supposed to. That being said, the signal levels in Rochester are abysmal for a local.

There's also a key difference between car and home radios. FM radio has a strong mono signal with a weaker stereo carrier (it was hacked on later). The stereo carrier has like 20 db more noise than the mono signal due to it's lower power. Because cars are in such variable conditions, most all car radios, even though they display the stereo light are mostly or completely blended to mono except in extremely strong conditions. Whereas your receiver will decode full stereo by default, often yielding a much dirtier signal than if it were mono.

What kind of hills or obstructions are to the south? I'm thinking a 5 element VHF-Hi yagi and an 8-bay like the Antennacraft U-8000 could work well and not break the bank. I think KTTC should lock solid with a 5 element. Getting a 10 element model wouldn't hurt though. The 8-bay might be a little overkill, but it's better to have a nice buffer to make up for change in seasons (think tree leaves) and such. Adding a Winegard HDP 269 preamp wouldn't be a bad idea. This will boost the signal to overcome cable and splitter losses.
post #2948 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

What kind of hills or obstructions are to the south? I'm thinking a 5 element VHF-Hi yagi and an 8-bay like the Antennacraft U-8000 could work well and not break the bank. I think KTTC should lock solid with a 5 element. Getting a 10 element model wouldn't hurt though. The 8-bay might be a little overkill, but it's better to have a nice buffer to make up for change in seasons (think tree leaves) and such. Adding a Winegard HDP 269 preamp wouldn't be a bad idea. This will boost the signal to overcome cable and splitter losses.

Hum, obstructions to the south, I would say trees and the hill that is 3rd Ave NW. Starting at the corner of Elton Hills and 3rd Ave. all the way south to 14th St. NW. That's kind of a big hill and makes me think I may have a problem. I hope not though.
post #2949 of 3306
Yeah. That could be a problem. Looking at your TV Fool it looks like 6/10/15/47 should be ok. 3 could be marginal and I dunno about KYIN 24. I would get a compass and aim the UHF antenna straight for the 3/24 tower.
post #2950 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

So how were you picking up KTLK? What receiver/antenna? Overload type can also change with receiver.

AM is useless in most urban environments. Heck, the lower half of shortwave is too. After 10MHZ, things open up a bit.

I've picked up KTLK-FM in my car radio, but never in the house.

AM... useless? No, but there are a lot of noisy areas, especially in the 600-800Khz range. I get rather clear signals from a lot of the Cities stations, especially with the C. Crane., daytime only of course. I've also received KYW 1060 out of Philadelphia one night. Chicago Clear Channels come in crystal clear most nights unless there's a weather system between us. In fact, I've gone through the FCC's list and gotten most of the listed stations. Oddly, KSTP-1500 is always hard for me at night.
post #2951 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by webby_s View Post

I would say trees and the hill that is 3rd Ave NW. Starting at the corner of Elton Hills and 3rd Ave. all the way south to 14th St. NW. That's kind of a big hill and makes me think I may have a problem. I hope not though.

That hill worries me. If you're right up against it, you're in trouble. The further you are from it, the better your chances for knife-edge diffraction. KIMT may be your real issue as you'll be going through the heart of the hill that Assisi Heights sits on and KIMT is much further away (and therefore weaker.)

Don't rule out La Crosse and Eau Claire, though. I got pretty good signals analog when I was on my tower. From the rooftop, though, nada.

For TV, I'd give serious thought to the Winegard HD 7698P. No FM or lo-VHF, but we've already discussed that.
post #2952 of 3306
Anybody know what is going on with KTTC today? I'm seeing it break up a lot both OTA and via standard def on Dish Network locals. OTA is my pretty standard 75% (I haven't had time to get and install a VHF antenna yet). It seems more like the contents of the signal aren't quite right today.

It figures that we would get low-quality today with the big Olympics hockey game coming up soon.
post #2953 of 3306
I checked earlier this morning for just a minute and I was locking KSMP 9 and KARE 11 pretty well (I rarely get KSMP to lock at all) but KTTC was breaking up. I don't know what's up.
post #2954 of 3306
So, is the Twin Cities NBC affiliate "clean"? It almost looks like the satellite signal *to* KTTC is broken. This is really disappointing. Is there anyone I can call? I'm sure I'm not the only one looking to watch this game in Rochester.
post #2955 of 3306
Just checked... KTTC seems to be stable. No dropouts and normal signal strength for me.
post #2956 of 3306
Looks like someone cleaned something up. I should have known that there would be at least 30 minutes of "pre-game" before the real game started :-)
post #2957 of 3306
Speaking of FM radio, has anyone had luck pulling in HD radio from the Twin Cities from the bowl of Rochester?
post #2958 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

Speaking of FM radio, has anyone had luck pulling in HD radio from the Twin Cities from the bowl of Rochester?

Ya, back at my parent's house, with a Channel Master 1161 un-amped aimed for the TC, I was getting The Current KCMP (my favorite station) 100% in HD less lightening storms, where it would drop back to perfect analog, which is broadcast from a 1000' tower near Coats, MN.
As for the Shoreview broadcasted stations, I did not check much, but I know that the 100kW stations from the master FM antenna on the KMSP-DT tower were pretty decent (93x KXXR comes to mind) They were not as good as The Current, but I think with a little more antenna height, they could have been perfect; I had the antenna on the house roof less then 30ft AGL. The other station that I really like from the TC, KSTP (KS95) is not doing HD radio yet, but I had a 100% analog signal.
post #2959 of 3306
In addition to TC HD stations, 88.7, 90.7 and 91.7 in Rochester are HD. 88.9, 93.3, 95.7, 90.3 and 94.7 in LaCrosse are HD along with 88.3 Menomonie, 90.1 Austin and 91.5 in Mason City.
post #2960 of 3306
There sure are a lot of FCC low power applications/permits for the Rochester area now.
post #2961 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias Ziegler View Post

There sure are a lot of FCC low power applications/permits for the Rochester area now.

What does this mean for us, exactly?
Independent local stations?
Additional religious & infomercial channels?

Or did I answer my own question?
post #2962 of 3306
..and when was the last time anybody acted on those permits? TV Fool used to be cluttered with them until a bunch expired.
post #2963 of 3306
Most likely, they would be used mostly for data. There are a number of people/organizations applying for multiple LPTV stations in small cities across the country. I believe FCC rules would require them to offer at least one unscrambled SD stream, but that still leaves a lot of room for encrypted data.

The database for Duluth has been cluttered with inactive LPTV licenses/construction permits for years, too. The analog TBN station is the only one actually on the air.
post #2964 of 3306
Alright, I'm sorry if I interrupt any ongoing conversation, but I wanted to tell my story.

Where should I begin? I suppose when I switched over to Directv last year. I found that they don't have local channels in HD. What was I to do? I bought an OTA HD box (my tv is an older DLP without a tuner). Tried it with an indoor antenna - zip.

My wife tells me there was a big antenna in the attic when she moved in 5 years ago. So I go check it out. Yeah, it's big. I never counted all of the elements, but it's one of those anodized aluminum triangle uhf/vfh/fm numbers with probably around 50 elements. Sweet! - I think to myself. Plug it in - zilch!
Dang, now what?

That's when I joined the forum and looked at all the info you guys have provided. I decided to buy a CM7777 and upgrade my cables to RG6. Results? barely get NBC (20% signal), FOX and PBS. KAAL comes in the best, and KIMT not at all.

So I let it go for a year. I adjust the antenna occasionally if there's something on NBC I want to watch. Football season was tolerable, but still suffered from signal loss. Superbowl was a lost cause with no CBS. Olympic hockey gold metal game was watched off of satellite in standard def.

I'm thinking I'd have to move the antenna to the chimney just to barely get any more signal and I'd be lucky to get KIMT if I do at all.

The thought had occurred to me that I should maybe try a balun or transformer for my antenna. The one that's on there was an old box with a switch for 200ohm and 75ohm and 2 wire leads coming out to the antenna - not twin leads, just wire.

So I go to Menards and find the 200 to 75 ohm transformer, put it in and BAM! 100% signal on all channels! WOW! how have I been wasting my time for the past year and a half struggling to get OTA signal when all I needed was this little $2 part.

Anyway, thanks for all the info, knowledge and help from you guys even if you didn't know you provided it. This forum has really helped out a lot!
post #2965 of 3306
Well.. I'm happy for you. It's always the little things isn't it? Btw, what constitutes "all channels." In the Rochester area, you should be able to get:

3.1/3.2 KIMT
6.1 KAAL
10.1/10.2 KTTC
15.1-4 KSMQ
24.1-3 KYIN
47.1 KXLT

Just out of curiosity, what's your general location?
post #2966 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

Well.. I'm happy for you. It's always the little things isn't it? Btw, what constitutes "all channels." In the Rochester area, you should be able to get:

3.1/3.2 KIMT
6.1 KAAL
10.1/10.2 KTTC
15.1-4 KSMQ
24.1-3 KYIN
47.1 KXLT

Just out of curiosity, what's your general location?

well, all of those except KYIN.

I'm in the north Silver Lake area
post #2967 of 3306
I dunno how KYIN will pan out, but you could maximize your likelyhood of getting it by getting your TV Fool results then adjusting the antenna's orientation with a compass (aim it right at the KIMT/KYIN tower).
post #2968 of 3306
Ya I was in the north Silver Lake neighborhood and now I am in Elton Hills. I have retired my old antenna that got KTTC KAAL KSMQ and KXLT awesomely to an FM antenna (you probably have read the posts) and now VERY SOON will be pulling the trigger on a new antenna that was recommended to me from this very forum.

I am glad to hear it all worked out for you!!! Now to throw a monkey wrench in there, it sounds like with the new D12 sat up in orbit that the Rochester area may get HD locals in Local soon... But, I sure as hell ain't holding my breath!
post #2969 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by webby_s View Post

Now to through a money wrench in there, it sounds like with the new D12 sat up in orbit that the Rochester area may get HD locals in Local soon... But, I sure as hell ain't holding my breath!

Put me on the list of those hoping for DirecTV to offer HD LiL. I still am not getting dropout-free reception of KTTC-DT (thank you aircraft), and due to a PSIP glitch, I get an audio/video dropout every 31 seconds on KAAL-DT with my DTVPal. Interestingly, I get perfect reception of KXLT-DT, KSMQ-DT and KIMT-DT, some of which should be much harder to get.

You would think, this being over a decade since the inception of ATSC 8VSB broadcasting in the US, that these types of problems would have been long since fixed.

Of note: MPEG4 HD LiL is not quite as high a picture quality as OTA. But I'd give up a little picture quality for a little reliability.
post #2970 of 3306
A little more on the whole 107.7 and reception. Well they obviously have done something big on there end. (and I wished I knew more or was more knowledgeable on it) But they "added" 103.9 and must have boosted there signal or something since I am able to get it in on both channels as clear as the blue sky. And I would say both in my truck and on my receiver, I get 103.9 in better (sound quality wise) then 107.7.

I figured I stop in here and see what you guys knew!! Thanks
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