Rochester, MN - HDTV - Page 103

To me it looks like the last time someone posted in the Minneapolis Charter thread was Jan 1, of '09 On the other hand the Minneapolis Comcast thread gets posted to daily.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ht=minneapolis

Hello, I rescanned my TV for some stupid reason, and now I am not able to pick up KIMTDT 3.1 on charter basic cable. I am just running a coaxial cable directly into my Samsung Plasma tv. Does anyone else have this problem?

Looks like the remap data is gone again, its 82.3 for me right now.

AHA. Thanks that worked for me. I didn't even think to look to a different channel.

I just did a rescan and I can't find KIMTDT on any QAM channel. Anyone know which channel it's now mapped to? 3.1 and 82.3 don't work for me.

Still 82.3 for me but it could be another 82. depending on channel shifting so try starting at 82.1 and go forward from there.

Maybe this is old news to everyone else, but I just noticed that the FCC is now using google maps to show the transmitters contours.

Here's the one for KXLT:

http://maps.google.com/?q=http://www...TER%26state=MN

Can you enlighten us as to the url of the page on the fcc site which builds these maps?

Thanks in advance.

This isn't exactly the same as the example map provided by T. Ziegler, however, the info appears to be (about?) the same (but uses static images in a pop up).

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ - enter your address or ZIP (top left) and you get a list of stations through which you can dig for additional information.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...lon2=7&size=14

You can start by going to this page, for which I've set up a URL that displays TV transmitters located within 100 miles (161 km) of my home's longitude and latitude.

You should be able to modify it to your needs by adjusting the values of your location's latitude (dlat2=44&mlat2=33&slat2=17) and longitude (dlon2=-92&mlon2=30&slon2=7). The values here are latitude of 44 degrees, 33 minutes, and 17 seconds; and longitude -92 degrees, 30 minutes, and 7 seconds.

You can also modify the distance covered by adjusting the value of "dist=161" to whatever you want. 100 miles = 161 (kilometers).

Once you have the list of transmitters (licensees? TV stations? I don't know the correct term), you can click on one you're interested in, and its data will be displayed. For example, for KXLT-TV (Rochester's Fox affilitate), you will be taken to this page:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=35906

On that page, you can click on the link "Service Contour on Google map ..."

On some of the pages, there are several different license records that appear. Each will have its own link to a map. The date of a record is imbedded in its number. For example, File No.: BPCDT-20080422AAE is from Year 2008, Month 04, Day 22.


For years, the FCC used a mapping system called Tiger, but that stopped last spring. For the last few months, there's been no new maps being drawn. But now that they are set up to use Google, mapping has been resumed. Take the maps with a grain of salt.

I've just told you everything I know about this (as best I know), but others on here may be able to respond with more (or corrections!).

Just noticed that KTTC now has 5.1 audio. Not sure when this happened, wonder if they upgraded anything else.

Just the other day the program guide for channel 3 was messed up on my DTX9950. So I rescanned the channel with the . 4 2 RF channel procedure.

What I saw being tested back on June 30 now appears to be in operation, a 24/7 weather channel on 3.3. Audio is NOAA weather radio KXI-68. Unlike 2.4 there is no closed captioning with additional information.

So if you're wondering why 3.1 and/or 3.2 is flaky, you will need to rescan.

I noticed it right away during the Vikings game last night. Video quality seemed noticably better. I saw none of the horrible artifacts that were uqbiquitous before the upgrade. Looks like they upgraded their encoder. It was a long time coming, but it's nice now that it's here.

Hi,

Mattdp and sregener had made some pretty good antenna recommendations in the past - unfortunately, wasnt able to convince my wife for installing a rooftop antenna and we ended up staying with Charter.

In any case, the OTA "landscape" (no pun intended) seems to have changed a bit since then and we have re-evaluated our OTA needs. I understand per posts here and on mattdp's blog that KTTC has upgraded their encoders and now dont have encoding artifacts and even broadcasts shows in 5.1 when available.

In short, if we go OTA we are no longer looking to get channels from the twin cities. Here is the TVFool for our location. We are located roughly 0.4 miles east of the KTTC offices at an elevation of atleast 1100ft and are looking to get all the channels upto KYIN from the TVfool report above reliably.

With my Silver Sensor hooked up directly to the TV in the living room, I am able to reliably get all UHF channels except KIMT (and ofcourse KTTC - but that's expected). By moving the Silver Sensor to a particular spot on the entertainment center above the TV (roughly 78" from the ground), I can also get KIMT pretty reliably. Currently, I have hooked up this VHF dipole with this bowtie, combined with this combiner and am able to get everything we need except for KYIN.

Since rooftop antenna installation is out/"non-negotiable", I would appreciate recommendations for antennas that can be installed inside our garage attic (we already have 4 RG6 coax runs from this location to the basement distribution/splitter box) as well as recommendations for local businesses that can help with this installation. I called G&S several times but havent had much luck getting response back - plus I understand Gordy might have retired? Any other reputable businesses in the region I can work with?

Thanks,
-Topper

[Giving credit where credit is due - while it is technically, my blog, gjvrieze contributes to it, as well]

Gordy may have retired. I believe his son Travis is carrying on the business.

If I understand correctly, KTTC is fine with a dipole, but KIMT and KYIN aren't so hot with a Silver Sensor.

Needless to say, an attic install is in order here.

Provided you have the vertical space in the attic, go all out and build a DBGH design: http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/design.htm
fabricate a 30x75 (or larger if you like) sheet of cardboard coated with aluminum foil (or chicken wire screen), grab some romex and fabricate the elements and feedline on a 2x4 which is then intern attached to the reflector. Go online and grab a Channel Master 0089 balun (I've seen them for $1.99). Volla! you have more UHF gain than any antenna on the market today! Don't have the vertical space? try a single bay design.

With a compass and TV Fool plot in hand, I would aim that straight at the KYIN/KIMT tower and see what happens. Also try moving around the attic if necessary. You should be totally set. If you split the cable or have long runs, try a Winegard 269 preamp if you have reception problems.

Not into fabricating your own antenna? An 8-bay of any description should more than do they job. A 4-bay should also work great.

The Channel Master 4228HD seems to be ideally suited for what you describe. You may need to fiddle a little with where in the garage attic you place it, as well as tweaking the aim, but it should do the job if the Silver Sensor is "almost" there.

Since the Coax is run, installation should be very easy. Get yourself some rope and tie it to a rafter. You can use just about anything to hold it up there, as long as it isn't metal. Duct tape would work, but gravity could defeat it over time. No need to ground it, because it's indoors.

Thanks for responses and suggestions, guys!


mattdp - I have tried several times over the past month or so to get in touch with G&S for my install but have been unsuccessful in contacting anyone or getting a callback to the messages I have left.



As I try to find someone (more knowledgeable/experienced) to help with attic installation of a bigger antenna (e.g. the multi-bay ones you guys suggested), I tried few other things last night.

In hopes of getting more stable reception of KIMT, I replaced the radioshack VHF/UHF combo described in my previous post with the Silver Sensor. Only this time, I rotated the antenna 90 degrees (previously I had been testing by assembling the antenna as shown here ). Logic in doing so was based on both your recommendations that involved antennas that had their "elements" in the vertical plane. Turning it 90 degrees seemed to help somewhat with getting better reception for KIMT. Encouraged by this, I brought out the old Channel Master 3043 amplifier and without much "special positining" just did a new scan.

To my surprize, not only did KIMT come in rock solid for the half hour or so that I was testing, KTTC was also solid (except for some macroblocking artifacts(?) once a minute or so - definitely watchable) even though Silver Sensor is supposed to be UHF only channel. Additionally, while scanning atleast, the TV also picked up all the channels for WHLA and WXOW - when I tried to watch these channels however, the signal strength was low and the picture kept breaking up. While these channels are unwatchable, it was certainly encouraging that by just rotating the Silver Sensor and adding the amplifier, it was able to get even the two La Crosse channels. Strangely - still no trace of either KYIN or even WLAX, which are listed above WHLA and WXOW in the TV Fool table - any thoughts why this might be? Could it be that getting WHLA and WXOW may have been a fluke due to "tropo" effect last night?

Next test I am thinking (if time permits) is to:
a) Take the Silver Sensor to the bedroom right above the living room - as this room is at roughly the same height as the attic above the garage and has a clear line of sight to Century High School and beyond.
b) Feed signal from Silver Sensor into the wall coax jack by the window.
c) In the basement - switch the cables such that the cable from this bedroom is connected to the input of the 8-way splitter instead of the output.
d) Hook-up the Channel Master 3043 between the splitter and the RG6 from the bedroom.
Reason for doing this test is to see if reception gets any better at the higher elevation especially since it is at a height comparable to the attic where the antenna might be installed. Any suggestions/input/guesses for what I can expect is appreciated.

Thanks,
-Topper

Is it just me, or does it look like KTTC upgraded their video scaler?

The video appears sharper than it did a week or so ago.
A little more detailed.


I can tell that they must have upgraded or reconfigured their light setup in their studio....
The news anchors (on the studio set) are a much warmer color temperature now.
A little too warm for my taste, but pretty pleasing to the eye.

Natural color temperature? This is a change

I have painstakingly calibrated the TVs in our house to give a very natural, accurate color temp/saturation balance. Network programming and DVDs all had natural flesh tones.

KTTC/FOX 47 newscasters, on the other hand, all looked as if somebody had aimed a 500w Halogen worklight at the set and called it good. The color saturation has always been very lean and the newscaster's complexion ghostly.

I still have my old Video Essentials DVD somewhere, and I wouldn't describe the process as difficult. Sure, the first time through, listening to all those descriptions of the test screens was a little dry. But after that, it's skip to chapter 13 and take 5 minutes to get things right. I haven't checked it in years.

I suspect that KXLT's issue stem from a poor quality encoder, rather than lighting issues in the studio. Remember that Fox uses an "in-line" system for transmitting HD; local stations only insert their bug in one little block of the encoder. That saves a lot of money on the encoder, but it also means that locally produced video isn't going to look very good. Whenever 47 downgrades to 480i, my opinion is that the video looks VCR-ish.

Then again, given the visual quality of the anchors we tend to get in the 154th largest market in the country, even the best lighting may only slightly improve the picture.

I calibrate via the THX screens, then tweak those on an input basis (which requires watching and tweaking). At least a 20 minute process.

It puzzles me because KIMT and KAAL (certainly not the highest budget operations) seem to have reasonable-looking newscasts.

But both CBS and ABC require higher-quality encoders - they have to take 36mbps inputs and decode, then insert the bug and reencode at 15-18Mbps. Compare that to the 15Mbps input stream, 95% of which is passed through without decoding or encoding, which is how Fox works.

And for whatever reason, KIMT and KAAL have both invested heavily in their local news. Perhaps playing catchup to KTTC. KXLT has a monopoly on 9pm, and doesn't have their own production crew - everything but the "talent" is rented from KTTC.

*giggles*

Good description!

It looks like KTTC switched over to a high definition news broadcast last night. I think the 10pm broadcast last night may have been their first one.

I only caught a couple of minutes at the end of the morning news, but it looks pretty darn good.

Tonight I'll have to tune in for the 5pm or 6pm broadcast.

Just checked out Fox 47 news at 9 tonight and it was in HD. Guess that makes sense since I think they share studio space with KTTC.

Not sure if this upgrade will fix their weather alert overlays to not window box the picture, to do what KIMT does, but I can hope it does.

Now all that is needed is for KAAL to upgrade to 5.1 audio to match what we had when KSTP was available as the HD channel for ABC.

If I'm reading this correctly, KSMQ is reducing their transmitting power:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=28510

As I write this, their new service contour map is not yet working.

Tobias-

I took a look at your link, and it does look like they applied for lower transmission power on the 23rd. (20110325ABO= March 25, 2011?)

I wonder why they're going from 319kW to 115kW.
Quite the reduction in power, I'd assume.


Maybe KSMQ is reducing its transmit power to save some money since PBS' funding may be slashed?

If we dig up the application. http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=28510

"THE STATION IS OPERATING AT REDUCED POWER BECAUSE OF ICE ON THE ANTENNA. A TOWER CREW HAS BEEN SCHEDULED TO INSPECT THE ANTENNA DURING THE WEEK OF MARCH 28 FOR ANY DAMAGE AND RUN TESTS. IF THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS, THE STATION WILL RETURN TO FULL POWER. IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS, THE LICENSEE WILL ORDER NEEDED PARTS."

The sky is not falling.

- Trip

Ahhhhh.... I see.
(Said the blind man)

......as he picked up his hammer and saw
Surprised they need to do such a thing for such a temporary action.
I wonder what that Eau Claire WI TV station had do when their antenna collapsed I heard they were going to use a competitors tower.