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Rochester, MN - HDTV - Page 109

post #3241 of 3306
I'm beginning to come around to the thought that I should mount an antenna outside and tie into my current cable. I think that the current routing is a split right away and then another split in each line. I think there are more splits in the lines because of all of the locations I have for cable tie ins. Would I need to remove these additional splitters?

Also, I was planning on keeping my internet, so I would have to figure out a way to maintain at least one of the incoming lines able to access cable. I'm guessing I'll need to reconfigure things to maintain both the tv connections and leave an internet connection???

I'll try to trace my current cable lines and make a diagram. I appreciate all of the input!
post #3242 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

I think you will be disappointed with the results of anything less than an antenna on the roof. The stations in your market are spread over a large geographic area, and you would likely need a rotor as well. WKBT is on hi-VHF, which means that you're going to need a quite large antenna for that.

I disagree. I pick up WKBT here in Rochester just fine with the UHF (Yagi) remnant of my Delhi antenna. Also no problem with KTTC and KARE. Even KEYC Mankato pops in occasionally.
post #3243 of 3306
I really have to hand it to those cable installers......coax must be the cheapest substance known to man! I'm going to have to pull my entire drop ceiling down to follow all of the lines. Near as I can tell, this is what I have:

Main Line

Outside

Kitchen

Shop/Garage

Inside

Basement East Side

Basement West Side

Basement West Side

Master Bedroom

Daughter's Bedroom

Guest Bedroom

At this point, I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed.

I'm tempted to leave the cable alone for a few reasons.
  1. It allows me to come back to it without having to change anything back.
  2. It keeps my internet connection options open.
  3. By using set top, I can move my tv's to anywhere I want.
  4. Seems like reception will not matter (I'll get the same channels either way).

Maybe the best approach is to try a set top antenna and see if it pulls in the major stations??? Any other recommendations for antennas?
post #3244 of 3306
As I and others have said, the Terk HDTVi is the most effective indoor antenna. $30 at Amazon.com with free delivery. Cheap and easy to try. You can return it if it doesn't work reliably.
post #3245 of 3306
Best to try the amplified version right away or just the regular?
post #3246 of 3306
Nevermind....I figured that one out on my own. I'm actually going to get it from Walmart. Same price and its easier to return.
post #3247 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Massey16 View Post

Best to try the amplified version right away or just the regular?

Best to try the unamplified version. Amplifiers can introduce a lot of problems that are hard to diagnose, and with you being so close to so many strong signals, overload is almost certainly going to be a problem, even with an indoor antenna.
post #3248 of 3306
He's right, get the unamplified version.
post #3249 of 3306
I'm hoping to get the antenna this weekend. I'll let you know how it works out!
post #3250 of 3306
My current setup is a homemade Double Bay Gray-Hoverman and a old vhf antenna where the elements can point straight out or swing forward (I swing them forward because it picks up VHF HI better that way). My preamp is a Channel Master Spartan 3. It is the 0264DSB model. That model has one 300 ohm input for VHF and one 300 ohm input for UHF. The two antennas are in my attic and are pointing toward the twin cities. I'm looking for a few opinions on a new outdoor antenna setup. I can mostly get the twin cities now but I would like a signal with as close to no breakouts as possible. I'll include my tv fool info for reference. Here are some of my questions.

1) Do you think I could get channel 11 and 9 out of the TC and 10 off the backside with a mostly UHF antenna? I'm thinking of the 4228HD.
2) Say an antenna like the 4228HD would work. I want to know if my existing preamp will work.
2a) Could I pull off the balun to make the output of the antenna 300 ohms?
2b) Does a two input (VHF/UHF) preamp require 2 antennas? Or could I hook up one antenna to both inputs?
3) If one antenna isn't going to work, I could try stacking a new UHF antenna with my old vhf antenna.
3a) If I decide to stack, is the 4228HD as good as any?
3b) If I go with the 4228HD do you think this hack is worth it? http://www.antennahacks.com/Hacks/Ni...nstruction.htm From what I have read, it will improve the UHF reception at the expense of VHF.
LL
post #3251 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by deschmit View Post

3) If one antenna isn't going to work, I could try stacking a new UHF antenna with my old vhf antenna.
3a) If I decide to stack, is the 4228HD as good as any?
3b) If I go with the 4228HD do you think this hack is worth it? http://www.antennahacks.com/Hacks/Ni...nstruction.htm From what I have read, it will improve the UHF reception at the expense of VHF.

After thinking about this more, the 4228HD is propably a silly choice if stacking is my only good option. I might as well go with an antenna tuned more toward UHF. Maybe the Winegard HD-8800.
post #3252 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by deschmit View Post

After thinking about this more, the 4228HD is propably a silly choice if stacking is my only good option. I might as well go with an antenna tuned more toward UHF. Maybe the Winegard HD-8800.

The problem with your question is that no one can tell you for certain how a UHF antenna will work for VHF signals in your specific situation. Frankly, I'm amazed at what you're getting with your current setup. I used to get KTTC-DT-10 with my AntennasDirect 91XG pointed 45 degrees off, but one day it just went away. No amount of aiming fixed it. I eventually got a VHF antenna to fix it.

You can run an amplifier with one input open - there's no magic resistance in the coax.
post #3253 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

The problem with your question is that no one can tell you for certain how a UHF antenna will work for VHF signals in your specific situation. Frankly, I'm amazed at what you're getting with your current setup. I used to get KTTC-DT-10 with my AntennasDirect 91XG pointed 45 degrees off, but one day it just went away. No amount of aiming fixed it. I eventually got a VHF antenna to fix it.

You can run an amplifier with one input open - there's no magic resistance in the coax.

You're right, if I'm looking for the best results I should just do stacked antennas (and I already have a preamp made for 2 antennas).
post #3254 of 3306
Anyone care to comment on the reliability of HD LiL on Dish Network in Rochester? Their new Hopper DVR has me contemplating switching over to Dish. My HR22 is a dog, and DirecTV still does not have The Hub or BBC America in HD. Looks like I'd be about $7/mo ahead after the promo period, but I'd be well about $27/mo ahead in year 1. Comments?
post #3255 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

Anyone care to comment on the reliability of HD LiL on Dish Network in Rochester? Their new Hopper DVR has me contemplating switching over to Dish. My HR22 is a dog, and DirecTV still does not have The Hub or BBC America in HD. Looks like I'd be about $7/mo ahead after the promo period, but I'd be well about $27/mo ahead in year 1. Comments?

Would also like to confirm the reliability of local HD channels via Dish Network since I am considering going with their Hopper/Joey setup as well and because (atleast currently) its not possible to "diplex" OTA signal into the Hopper (as was possible with some of their previous DVRs).

Having said that, I know few people in town that have Dish network with the HD local channels. The local channels looked fine for the most part when I was over at their place (I imagine side by side comparison w/ an OTA signal would have shown the better picture quality of OTA on their 55" TV but FWIW, the "HD Lite" version from Dish was acceptable). Not sure if there is any PQ difference between the older receivers and the Hopper tho'. Only thing I will miss tho' is PBS (KSTP) that I can currently get w Charter and OTA antenna.

In any case, I will be following this thread to see if someone else who has more first hand experience w HD locals via Dish Network would chime in.

-Topper
post #3256 of 3306
I'll let you know. Install is scheduled for Saturday...
post #3257 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by topperdude View Post

Would also like to confirm the reliability of local HD channels via Dish Network since I am considering going with their Hopper/Joey setup as well and because (atleast currently) its not possible to "diplex" OTA signal into the Hopper (as was possible with some of their previous DVRs).

After a few days and some rain, I haven't lost the signal yet. Some forum members stated their locals went out even when the sky just looked like it was thinking about rain. That has not been my experience, yet. I do expect heavy rain to knock it out.

As a video purist, the Dish HD is inferior to DirecTV's, but still well within the watchable range. SD quality is much better on Dish than DirecTV - nobody is going to confuse it for a DVD, but it is still quite watchable. DirecTV's SD was inferior to VHS. Dish has more channels I watch in HD, so while I lose the crispness of DirecTV's HD, I gain a lot of it back with programs that were awful and are now in almost-perfect HD.

Example: Planet Earth aired yesterday on BBC America. I would never have recorded it on DirecTV - I'd buy the Blu-Ray first. But the HD on BBCA on Dish is good enough that I don't need to go out and buy it.

FSN North and the locals are worse than the national channels on Dish. Still watchable, but not great. After watching NASCAR yesterday, I will be buying the OTA module as soon as it comes out. In the meantime, it's good enough I'm not tempted to pull my DTVPal out of storage - the DVR conveniences outweigh the slight loss in quality. But with an OTA module, I'll have both.

After living with a DirecTV DVR for the past two years, I can't believe how fast the Hopper is. It's almost too fast - skipping 30 seconds is nearly instant.
post #3258 of 3306
Nice review Scott but I am confused by one thing.
You started out by saying HD was better with DirecTV(which agrees with everything I've read) but later you said you'd never record Planet Earth on DirecTV but opt for the BD but Planet Earth HD was fine on Dish The only thing that makes sense is that maybe DirecTV doesn't have BBCA HD only SD?
I agree, the Hopper sounds like a nice system
post #3259 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

The only thing that makes sense is that maybe DirecTV doesn't have BBCA HD only SD?
I agree, the Hopper sounds like a nice system

Correct. BBC America is in HD on Dish, but not DirecTV. The HD on Dish is good enough I don't need to buy a Blu-Ray of Planet Earth, which aired yesterday on BBCA. The SD is so bad on DirecTV that I would not watch it unless I had no alternative.

The general rule is that if HD sports is your primary concern, DirecTv wins. If you want the most basic channels in HD, Dish wins.
post #3260 of 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by topperdude View Post

Would also like to confirm the reliability of local HD channels via Dish Network since I am considering going with their Hopper/Joey setup as well and because (atleast currently) its not possible to "diplex" OTA signal into the Hopper (as was possible with some of their previous DVRs).

From some testing, HD locals seem no less prone to problems than the national channels. They all disappear at the same time and come back at the same time. So in that sense, they are just fine.

However, the picture quality on the HD locals is somewhat lacking. I'll be buying an OTA module the day it comes out. The satellite versions are watchable, but there's a bit too much pixelization for my taste. If you have a smaller screen, sit further back, or are less discerning of picture quality issues, they're just fine.
post #3261 of 3306
So, I finally got my Terk hooked up. Pretty spotty. I got it turned to the right direction and got 10 channels, but only 2 of which were strong enough to actually display something. Even those went in and out. Where do I go from here?
post #3262 of 3306
Could you give us a few specifics?
-Location (general area)
-TVFool.com results
-Model of antenna currently being used/where mounted
-What channels are being received?

In general though, Terk antennas are worthless (and overpriced). We can work out specifics, but you'll probably need a better antenna. It's more than possible to get all the Rochester area stations via an attic installation (with the possible exception of KYIN 24).
post #3263 of 3306
I'm in West Salem, WI. It's right outside of La Crosse. I didn't get much of a response on the other board, so I posted here.

My TVfool.com and other location information is on the previous page of the thread.

Here is the model of antenna:

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-HDTVi-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B0001FV36E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8

Any help would be much appreciated!
post #3264 of 3306
I'm sorry if I've led you astray by recommending the Terk. The problem with indoor antennas is that they are extremely sensitive to their exact position. It took me many hours to find a good place for my Terk. It ended up in a corner of the kitchen. I found out that this was the *only* place in the entire apartment where I could get all the local stations. Move it a foot in any direction and POOF, half the stations disappear. I had to run a long (RG-6 QS) cable from the kitchen to the living room. This was a lot of work, and I suspect most people would not have the patience. For me as a DXer though it was an educational experience.

I still think the Terk is the best indoor antenna. But it is the best of the worst. All indoor antennas are pretty crappy in my experience. It can't be helped. Inside a building there are many reflections, diffractions, attenuations and other things that mess up TV signals. And if your building has metallic siding, you'll get nothing with an indoor antenna.

I'm afraid I should have said all this before. My apologies!
post #3265 of 3306
I agree that Terk HDTVi/HDTVa are among the better indoor antennas.
post #3266 of 3306
Noticed today the 3ABN affiliate K25NK-D is on the air on RF 25.

4 video channels and 3 audio only channels.

Virtual is also 25 which overlaps WLAX. But as WLAX has a lower RF channel (17), when tuning directly the DigitalStream picks WLAX first. So no issue there.

It is not interfering with other stations (KTIN virtual 21 RF 25 coming in on tropo doesn't count), so it should stick this time. (The first attempt was pulled when it used RF 38 a number of months ago, which happened to interfere with WEAU).
post #3267 of 3306
Their mapping has been changed so they're now at 58.x.
post #3268 of 3306
Which, if memory serves, was their analog UHF channel. Now there is no virtual channel overlap with WLAX.
post #3269 of 3306
correct. Their analog channel was 58

thats weird as here in Minneapolis analog was 14 but when they launched the digital on 33 it didnt remap. Its 33-1 thru 33-7. But assuming the remap was necessary due to the remap of 25 that close to it
post #3270 of 3306
I don't know if everyone know this, but the DTV spec allows for 99 channels and 99 subchannels. If a translator network wanted, they could just arbitrarily pick something in the 52-99 range and keep it consistent across the US (unless there's some FCC policy against it). To me anyway, it would make more sense for branding purposes.
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